I picked up an EP26 flasher today at my FLAPS. It is rated for LEDs and 2-6 lamps.

I found it would not blink with just one of my front bucket LEDs on it. When open circuited (no load), 49A which goes to the turnsignal bulbs was sitting at about 7.5V with 12.6V applied to the flasher.

At 7.5V, the LED board does not have any current draw. The LEDs need about 8.4V to start turning on.

I did find that with a load of at least 4k ohms, the flasher would flash normally. This is about only 3ma load. Still need to study this a bit more.

A long thread. So the final product is not ready to purchase yet, right??

Paul

Still working out some issues.

At this point, 2 items need to be ironed out:

1) Blanking: several folks had shown interest in a blanking circuit for Euro lenses such that the white running light turns off when the turnsignal is activated. This is done with many late model vehicles with running lights near the turnsignals.

I have a circuit to do this so I will run a couple more boards with this circuit to test it out.

2) Compatible flasher: For those with front and rear LED turnsignals, it is most likely that the standard flasher will either hyperflash (flash real fast), not flash at all, or not flash the dash indicator. Front LEDs aren't too useful if the flasher doesn't flash.

I've tested one flasher (EP26) and it works well only a minimum 4k ohm resistor is across the LED turnsignal.

I'm still testing flashers. Found an EP36 LED-compatible flasher at AutoZone.

AutoZone EP36 Flasher

This one works well with the front LED board without any load resistors. It does not have the K or C spade for the dash indicator light. It has 49 (Battery), 49a (lights), and 31 (ground).

As far as the blanking is concerned, I have a circuit designed and the board laid out. I will run a couple more of these boards to test the blanking.

Still working on the clips for the front buckets. should be just like the rear lights and require no mechanical changes to the bucket.

Double Post; Post whore.

About the flasher, I haven't found any flashers with the K/C spade for the dash light. The workaround for this is different for early and late gauges.

For early gauges with L & R indicators, the common wire will be taken off of K and tied to ground. For the later gauges with one indicator, that wire will be connected to the 49a lead.

Would the CF18-08 on this page help? It has a turn signal spade.

Thanks. Looks like that one may work but it does not have the same spade connectors as in the 914. I'm trying to make this as easy as possible to change out the relay with a replacement that could connect to the existing connectors.

Yet another update.

I've added a circuit to blank out the running lights for Euro lens configuration. Here's the circuitry added to do the blanking. Not seen in this view are the 2 TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression diodes) needed to protect this circuitry.

I'm running a couple more prototypes to make sure the circuit works as designed.

The circuit works like this: a comparator senses the turnsignal voltage and turns off the running lights. An RC discharge circuit keeps the running lights off between the blinking of the turnsignals.

The timing of the RC circuit keeps the running lights off for about 1 second after the last turnsignal blink. This is slightly different from modern autos since they have overall control of the lights and can turn on the running lights as soon as the turnsignal arm is released. This application will have about a 1 second delay till the running lights come back on.

The comparator makes the on/off transition of the running LEDs instantaneously. The comparator controls a FET which does the actual LED current switching.

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Can't wait to see your video of the finished board with a Euro lense! Really great design. I'm looking forward to going all LED.

I've located 2 LED-compatible flasher relays that work with the front/rear LEDs.

When some folks replaced their rear turnsignal bulbs with LEDs, they experienced some flasher issues from not blinking at all to the dash indicator lamps not flashing. This incompatibility of older flasher relays with LED replacement bulbs is well known in the automotive arena.

When the front turnsignal bulbs are replaced with LEDs, the 914 flasher may or may not work. The 914 flasher may have to be changed to use the front LEDs especially if there are LEDs on the rear turnsignals.

The goal to changing the flasher is to make it as simple as possible. No wire cutting or splicing, simply pull the old flasher and install the new flasher. This will still be a pain in the ass as the flasher sits above the fuse panel and the fuse panel will need to be lowered to do the swap.

Because early/late tachs have different indicator bulbs (early has L & R; late has a single bulb), different flasher functions are necessary.

The EP36 is available at AutoZone and AdvanceAuto and would be used for early tachs. This one has power (49), turnsignal lamp (49a), and ground (31). There will be a wire change although because the EP36 does not have a K/C output like the 914 flasher. Thus the common wire from the dash indicators would be attached to ground on the flasher. A 3-way adapter will allow the normal ground and dash indicator common to both connect to the 31 lug.

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The FL3-RED is available online at superbrightleds.com and would be used for late tachs with a single dash indicator. This flasher has a "P" connection which is for the "Pilot" or dash indicator. Interestingly this flasher does not have a ground connection. I tested this flasher with my front LED board and it does work.

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So the late model cars need to purchase the red flasher in order to get the front lights to work properly correct?

This is way cool. When my car is closer to being done and I order my rears, I'm going to want a set of fronts as well.
Zach

Another cool thing to add to the build list. Sigh....

I'm not sure what will happen when front and rear are LEDs. If someone installs the LEDs, I need to make sure they will work properly. One can pre-test the functionality of their flasher by removing any bulbs that will be replaced by LEDs. This will simulate a very light load. If everything flashes correctly, then no changes need to be made.

The 914 flasher relay doesn't flash the dash indicator under light load which is what happens when the ebrake is pulled or MC warning switch is active.

Let me know when I can start holding my breath on this one.

BTW, I will be offering the rear LED boards as well as the front LEDs.

I am excited to add the front LED's with the rear that are already installed. Rear are working great, I love driving at night and seeing the road lit up behind me.

I think I finally have a clip design that should work well for the front LEDs. This prototype is made out of brass but the production clip will be plastic.

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The idea of this clip is to have the clip span the entire depth of the bucket and be held in place with the lens cover. The board will screw onto the shoulder.

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Like the rear LED boards, this one you will screw the clips to the board then insert the board in the enclosure.

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I've got the 2nd prototype board with the blanking circuitry. The blanking circuitry is the jumble of pads that can be seen on the bottom board between the notches in the board.

I'm getting the components next week from Digikey and will build up and test the boards.

I was following this Nissan (with LED taillights) the other day and I noticed one of the LEDs was out.

So much for the propaganda we hear about 50k + hours of lifetime for LEDs. I kinda doubt that you could change just one LED in the array. I could be wrong though.

The LEDs last forever. Solder joints, not always so long. 8)

With some of the asshole [anything for revenue] cops around here, I'd be worried that they'd write me up for having one burned-out LED out of the whole array

Built one of the front LEDs with running light blanking. Pretty much works as designed. The running lights cut out immediately when the turnsignals light and stay off about 1 second after the turnsignals turn off.



Here's a close up of the blanking circuitry.

Click to view attachment



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRBFT2LwVhc

When your ready, I want a front set just like that! That rocks!!

This board fits much better in the bucket than the first protos.

Been working on a price for these boards. Looks like the price for a pair of the Euro LEDs will be $140 and the US version will be $120.

I tried to keep the price as low as possible but these boards are much more difficult to assemble than the taillights, have more LEDs than the tails, and a larger PCB. The biggest difference in price between the Euro and US is the cost of the white LEDs. The white LEDs are double the price of the amber or red LEDs. The blanking circuit adds a bit but not much.

Once we get some plastic clips made and tested, then the height of the board can be verified since the clips will have some thickness to contend with. Hope to do that within the month.

When we're ready to make the front LEDs, we'll also offer the taillight LEDs as well again. The price for those will remain at $90/pair for brake and turnsignal.

Very nice! I am looking forward to these!

Cool


You're powering it from an 'N' gauge train track

I definitely will want a set of the fronts like that and the rears. Will you make an LED side marker? These rock and will really be a nice modification to our cars to help make them safer.

I'm in for F&R. Probably 2 sets. Whichever one is cooler between US and Euro.

Thanks for doing this!

Ship it already! I want one set!

-Steve

I want a set of US fronts and a set of rears. Will you be taking orders off of this thread or will you offer them in Classifieds? Possibly start a website?

Awesome sign me up for a set of euro's

DAvid

I haven't considered the side marker. I'm working on brake lights for my 911 right now.



I'll start a group buy thread when we're ready. Haven't considered a website. We make these one at a time by hand so we can't do too many at one time so it's first come first served. I consider folks who respond to this thread with interest as first in line.



It's HO gauge. My uncle started this layout in the '60's at his home in West Mifflin outside of Pittsburgh. He passed away in '87 and willed the layout to me. I moved it from his house to my house in Reading, PA; then to my house in Allentown.

The power supply for the rails is perfect for testing the LEDs. It outputs up to 20Vdc at 1.5A.

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Nice layout! I used to work with 'N' gauge, but nothing that elaborate.

I bought some 'Z' gauge stuff and still want to do a small layout (under a glass coffee table top) ... project # 2,877 ...

Spoke, Definitely interested in a set of the front Euros w/ blanking. Great job!

Spoke, i'd like to use the US red rear lenses but with a euro lighting colors etc, any idea how well the amber shows up through the red ?

Finally installed my rear LEDs.
Flasher works perfect.

Enough lurking! Consider me down for front & rears!

The amber comes through the red lens ok but there is some loss of intensity. I did a little video to show the difference. Not sure if it's helpful. What's the reason for running amber LEDs behind a red lens?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwUs5VGk28U

Quick update:

The front LED board with blanking works fine. We're trying out plastic clips now. Once the clips work with the boards, we should be ready to run.

The LEDs will have to be secured to the boards with RTV. They are way too easy to bend out of shape without some securing material.

We should be ready to start in a couple of weeks.

Cool

I'm done with the first and only set of prototype Euro LEDs w/o blanking.

The running lights on this set stays on all the time that parking/head lights are on regardless of the turnsignals. No running light blanking.

I'll sell this one and only Euro w/o blanking prototype set for $85 + $10 shipping (CONUS). Respond to this thread if you're interested and I'll PM you with details.

I will take them

David

It would tie in nicely with my 965 it has (as they all do) full red rear lenses but the indicators show through amber as per normal, I do have a set of both lenses on for the road and one for the MOT over here, the better the amber shows the less I'll attract attention from the police

Made some plastic clips for the front LEDs.

These will work different than the rear LEDs as the lens will hold the clips in place. There is virtually nothing to clip onto in the front buckets so these will rely on gravity and the lens in place.

Also in the background is a board with RTV applied to hold the LEDs in place. The RTV isn't as solid as I would like but I haven't found anything else better to use.

Installation should be easy.

The long clip goes in the back and the small clip goes in the front.

Notice the small clip mounts to the top of the board and its screw comes up from the bottom. The reason for this is twofold; one so the board itself will contact the beveled part of the housing and help keep the board straight, and the screw, if screwed in from the top, would hit the beveled part of the housing.

Both clips should be secured before installing the board.

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Once the clips are attached, the board is ready for installation.

First is to plug the board in to the existing socket. Push in the bulb base with the tip of your finger and twist until seated. The bulb base should go in easily. It might be worthwhile to practice with the existing bulb.

These sockets are 40+ years old and may have a buildup of crud and oxidation. Clean the socket if necessary and use a small amount of lubricant like petroleum jelly to make sure the bulb installs easily.

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Once the board is plugged in, make sure the wire stays out of the way of the rear clip when installing.

Position the front of the board first. There are slots in the board that fit into the ribs of the bucket.

Make sure the board is flush with the front and lower the rear of the board until the clip seats. Try not to push on the LEDs. Push on the clips if some force is necessary to seat the board. If you have to remove the board to reposition, do not grab the LEDs. Use a paper clip and get behind the board to remove it.

Install the lens.

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I am in when these are ready - I have clear lenses up front but these should be fine.

Love the DRL!