You won't need to eliminate anyone at all. People will eliminate themselves. Really, you could probably just tell the participants: meet your milestones, and if you slip a certain amount, bow out on your own.

Since this is ultimately a competition, the voting criteria for the participants needs to be spelled out. First of all, you're trying to determine the 'best' build. Since that is a subjective term it comes down to the judgement of the participants as to the definition of 'best'. This can include ingenuity, resourcefulness, workmanship, attention to detail, helpfulness to other builders, persistence, etc. I'm sure there are other criteria I've missed, but you get the idea.

The quality of the Challenge will depend on the integrity, honor, generosity and enthusiasm of the participants. Those are also some of the primary elements that makes 914World such a compelling place to live. If participants are encouraging their 'garage mates' instead of trying to defeat them it would be entirely within the spirit of 914World.

In a sense, it's a little like golf where the contest is really against the golf course, not the other golfers. Think of the cars as the course; every course is unique with it's own set of challenges. As the golfer(builder), the object is to successfully overcome the challenges in front of you. Instead of a score, your fellow builders decide who has done the best job of meeting the challenge.

Build on.

I absolutely agree and well said. The cars involved in the build-off could then drive their completed rides to their next local get together for constructive ideas/comments/approval/whatever and have the satisfaction of participating with their car possibly featured in the printed program that are part of the event. That would be a motivating factor for any builder!

Guys to simplifiy things I would just say who ever can complete the cars by the date should be judged. Everyone has their own idea of what a porsche 914 should or should not be! Clearly life will get in the way for some builds the ones that finish should get voted on by members. Either way I will keep posting pictures of my build weather people like it or not. I am not building a car for anyone but myself. No ones build should be booted early. I will send a picture of myself standing next to my car but I will not be allowing anyone to set any rules or anything for my build. If you like what is done vote for me if not I am sure others will have something more to your liking. I am just a dude with minimal auto expeirence and this is just cheap entertainment for me. Though it is also a learning experience.

I am building a car here. I have no idea what is ment by honor, integrity, generousity in regards to building your own car. I thought we are judging cars. If you want a porsche 914 man of the year tropthy that should be a different award

Its like the Gumball run of builds, 14 cars, 5 things you want to do, and a picture of yourself with the car. Minimal requirements, 1 year everyone votes at the end. I will say this is a huge disadvantage for me as you mention porsche 914 where I am from and people think your a rich porsche owner. I do not have the established relationships on the board other people have. I do not have the "hey come on over" factor that others have and I am still willing to continue per the rules.

These are my thoughts

I think everyone's posts above summarize the issues well.

Criteria/Guidelines vs. Just build your build
Reduce the field along the way vs. Let whoever falls out fall out on their own.

I tend to think less is more here. The last thing I want to do is tell someone how they should build their car, or restrict them in any way. Nor do I want to be the person cutting people. Ideally, people would cut themselves if they fall behind.

That's my thoughts on it.

Ideas:
Limit posts to the challenge thread to just the challengers. If someone slips up, edit it to read "Posting in this thread is limited to just the challengers. Do not post comments." There is no reason "that's awesome" can't be pm'd.

At least 1 significant progress pic per month, else probation. 2 months and you're out of any prize. Maybe add a weather waver that adds time to those affected. Could change based on productivity**

Individual build threads, titled with: 2016 Build Off - _some project info_ : which can be used like a diary. Documenting when parts are ordered/arrive, help questions, shop improvements, minor accomplishments. Ideally would have 365 posts but not likely

Prizes. Challengers that finish their approved list get a limited edition T-shirt, dash plaque, maybe some more goodies from sponsor(s).

Maybe split it up into "stockish restoration" and "custom/swap"? There is research and decision making time involved with a swap that a resto doesn't have to deal with.

** At least in my city it was 120f most of the summer, thus no time in the shop, but winters are 60f so it's actually a good time to be outside.

I'll toss my car in the ring. It is torn apart, but then my goal is to drive it to Okteenerfest next year. Thats the goal, not sure I will make it, but it is good to have goals.

74 EG33 with Subie 5spd. swap, flares, chassis rust repairs, AC, and a steel roof. Car is on a rotisserie right now, torn down to a shell.

This has gone in a very bad direction. My wife has me watching the tv show Four Weddings to see how they vote each other off the show.

To me, it seems that if there are no criteria, and no voting, etc. then it really isn't any different than watching 14 build threads. We want it to be interesting, and reducing the field periodically does that. In addition, it will be nearly impossible to effectively cover 15 build threads in the magazine, or even online.

Judges and panels, etc. introduce a lot of issues. Letting the participants vote, and then tallying the votes to reduce the field seems like a simple system. In addition to the participants, a 914world poll could also be thrown in the vote. The 914world poll would carry the weight of a single participant in each vote.

Also waiting until March to reduce the field seems too long to keep things interesting. Here is my suggested schedule:

January 1st - Reduce to 12 builds
April 1st - Reduce to 8 builds
July 1st - Reduce to 4 builds

I have a bare mostly painted shell that I'd like to toss in. Basically it needs a little more paint and then to be assembled. Motor has to be built and installed also. Bare shell to complete with plans to drive it (or trailer it after this weekends adventure) to Okteenerfest.


Shoe

Now make her watch Biker Build-off

More Ideas:

No elimination. Challenge ends early Dec. Week or 2 voting, then Christmas presents

Awards for just about everything, best interior, best exterior, most impressive accomplishment (tons of hours), most impressive skills, best city Porsche, best sun Porsche, best action Porsche (yep, 914 ads), most want to drive, most want to drive stolen, most want in my garage, most original, most unique, most NARP, most/least tasteful, best inside tunes, best outside tunes, nicest trunks, most traveled, most neglected, People's Choice (best of everything), the list can go on.

Repeat next year with new contestants.

I wanted to keep this simple. This is about as simple as I could get it and still keep it interesting and fair. What do you think?

PRELIMINARY DRAFT OF RULES FOR REVIEW AND COMMENT:
The 914 Build-Off Challenge will start on October 1, 2015. To participate, please post your interest in this thread, or PM me. We will request that you submit a list of the major tasks that you need to complete in the next year, as well as a photo of yourself with your 914.

All builds are eligible, provided they meet the criteria (the build can be a complete resto or a cleanup):

Criteria to participate:
a. Must include removal and installation, or installation of the engine.
b. Must include significant rust/accident repair, and/or paint and bodywork.
c. Must include significant interior work.

How are the builds judged?
1. Finishing on time - The car must be "done" and on the road at the end of the build.
The car must be road worthy at the end of the competition, including titled, registered, and tagged.
2. Completing all build tasks, as outlined at the beginning of the build. This is determined by the person doing the build, but, roughly set out at the beginning of the build.
3. Quality and workmanship of the final car.


The field of 914s will be reduced by participant voting, based on the following schedule:
January 1st - Reduce to 12 builds
April 1st - Reduce to 8 builds
July 1st - Reduce to 4 builds

Votes will be due 2 weeks prior to field reduction date. At each reduction in the field, each participant will vote based on:
A. Progress
B. Workmanship
C. Spirit

Participants can't vote for themselves. Voting for each of the above 3 categories is on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the best. In addition to the participant votes, a 914world poll will be added to the score with the same weight as a single participant. After the votes are tallied the 12 (January), 8 (April), 4 (July) builds with the most votes continue.

A single 914world thread will be started for the Challenge, and only participants can post in the thread (assuming admin is ok with that). Participants are required to post at least once a month, in an end-of-month post on or before the last day of the month. The post must include:

1. Progress made.
2. Unexpected challenges they encountered.
3. Whether any shops/vendors provided any services.
4. Include at least 1 photo.

The spirit of the Challenge is to do the work yourself. Participants can get help from friends and family, etc. No mentors will be assigned, but, there are lots of mentors that are always happy to give advice on 914world. Participants can use shops to do portions of the work, but, most of the work must be done by the participant, and the use of services by a shop must be disclosed in the thread, so that participants can take it into account in their voting. No "sponsorships" of participant's cars by vendors/shops. The participants agree to email photos to be used in the magazine and online, and release copyright of such photos.

There will be a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place, along with a Spirit of the 914 award. We are also considering best engine, best exterior, best interior, and people's choice awards.

We are using an honor system. Yes, you could cheat. But, you won't because it is a matter of pride. This Challenge should be viewed like a wager with your best friend as to who can build the best build in 1 year. Build on.

There you go; just let your wife judge.

That wife had me watching the wedding shows comment had me rolling! Anyways I can agree on everything though I would say a 2-5k sponsorship max dollar limit(you set) could be accepted. This will help promote companies! The Board! People finish builds. 1 year to build a car is alot of money! This is being used to promote a magazine? Participants should be able to pick up sponsors. IMO Adding sponsors just makes things cooler! I wish you would reconsider that portion and I am not saying that from a standpoint of someone who needs the money. I am just thinking it will help guys compete who money is a factor for pushing the builds even cooler. though a limit must be set. something to consider...

Just a little feedback.

I'm thinking New Years to Thanksgiving. Dec is a no free time month for most of us with families. Plus it would give time for a few others to jump in to replace the few that will need to bow out. Or extend the 1st deadline a bit.

Sponsors- Promotional consideration should be accounted for. I'm sure this thread will get plenty of attention. Maybe a bonus for being part of the challenge is discounts from vendors?
Andy can setup a sub-group of participants in an isolated thread where we can talk who and how much vendors are willing to contribute, as to not disrupt normal business. (Think moderators area).
As a reference, car stereo companies will pay out a few hundred if you get your car in a mag and mention their products in use.

As far as mag space, a summary of each persons updates and a few pics of the most interesting accomplishments should suffice.

Points system. (Inspired by Biggest Loser)

Not as simple but might be fairer since it seem that everyone is starting from a different place with a different list of objectives.

Give each objective a point value, say by time and/or dollars involved. Contestants can rack up points in any order. If you meet your points requirement for the quarter you continue. After ~6 months, lowest points gainer or 2 get eliminated every few weeks/month, with a comeback option if for the next period you are the highest gainer.

I guess my motivation is to keep the motivation to finish the car even if your out of the game.

I don't know if a dealer service manual with book time is floating around, or if something is on Alldata, but that would be the way to go for assigning points.

Something to play with. It would help to know more about what the challengers are starting with and what they need to do. At least for me one of the requirements disqualifies me.

The reason we wanted to end in early Fall is that it will ensure that people can drive their car when it is done. Also, if we wait to start January 1st, then people get a head start and things could get fishy. Also, there aren't really any car shows in November/December/January. So, showing off these cars, or giving out the awards at a car show is much harder if it runs January to January. I'd love to hear from the participants whether October to October works for them.




I agree. I don't really see any issue in letting them get sponsors if they want, as long as it is capped at like $3,000 - $5,000.

October to October works for me.

October 1 to October 1 would work, as I said my goal is to drive to Okteenerfest.

And if you really want a project plan, that is fine with me, as mine is huge. This falls under the category be careful what you wish for. Now a picture of me, not good with that, but then, its my own hang up, not yours.

Will this be like a GRM challenge project where we have to supply our budget? I am not sure I have a way of tracking that if it is, as I have assembled, traded, and swapped, and dumpster dove for parts. I am not saying have a cap, just wondering if we have to disclose costs?

The project plan is pretty basic. Tell us the 5 main areas that you intend to address. We need the photo. Sorry. We want to put you in the magazine.

Budget - no budget. No minimum. No maximum. No reporting, other than what you spend on services - shops, etc. I think a post above said it best - the Challenge is you vs. your car and plan. The Challenge is to build the best build. But, it is your build. "Best" means accomplish your goal and make it awesome. Sorta like playing a golf course. You vs. the course. You can buy the most expensive clubs in the world, and your still going to have to fight that course.

It never even occurred to me that someone would sponsor something like this. How does some guy in a garage go about achieving this??

Me neither. Until I was reading the rules of other builds (biker, rat rod, etc.). The concern seemed to be that a vendor would put up big sponsorship money for a car, to get exposure in a magazine. In this case, I don't think it is much of a concern - we are a very small magazine. But, I think it is possible that a vendor might want to sponsor a car on a small scale, and I think that is great.

Steve, did you get the PM on my build? I sent it over yesterday morning

I think so too. Furthermore, if anyone is able to get this it would be really cool (honorable!) if their first post was "how I got a sponsor, tips and tricks".

We need to adjust the first elimination date a little, to ensure that all of the builds get to be included in the magazine:

Here is what we are thinking:

Challenge begins - October 1st - I think we are up to 16 participants to start
First Elimination - January 15th - Reduce to 12 builds
Second Elimination - April 1st - Reduce to 8 builds
Final Elimination - July 1st - Reduce to 4 builds
Challenge ends - September 14, 2016 (914 Day)

This ensures that all of the cars that start get to appear in the January issue of the magazine (mailed December 15th), before any are eliminated. April and July Eliminations are already aligned with the publication dates, so they don't need to change.

The only other option I see is to not eliminate anyone until April 1st. But, my concern with that is that April is 6 months away, and we want to keep it interesting. Not having anyone eliminated for 6 months may make the whole thing drag on too much. Opinions?

That he did but there are a few builds not included in that thread.
EDIT: Disregard. I see that Andrew and Mike B. already addressed this. I should have read all the way thru before erupting.

i, for one, will be watching this build, very closely

I have been organizing the participants, and looking at the details of their builds. There are some really neat builds. And they all seem like a fair amount of work. We have every year car represented, and just about every region of the country. From stock cars to full tube chassis, they are all there. This should be fun.

If you haven't sent me the details of your build, the year and color of your car, your full name, email address, and where you are located, please PM it to me. We are asking everybody to send a picture of themselves and their car by Monday, via email. Please PM me and I will send you my email address.

Remember that your engine must either be out of the car on October 1st, or come out of the car after October 1st. So, don't put it in this weekend.

The Challenge starts October 1st.

I'm excited to see this start! Sounds like there will be a real learning curve for a few of us, myself included! I can't wait! It sounds like we have El Niño this winter in California so I'll save the indoor garage work for when and if the rain comes. We really need the rain so fingers are crossed. Thank you for putting this build challenge together! This should help keep my butt to the fire to get this car finally done. After months of rehab from surgery and not being able to do more than buy parts from my computer I'm super excited to start. October 1st is perfect timing as I should be healed up by then. Let the fun begin!

I have to bow out. I'm too far ahead for a change Pulling the engine is going the wrong direction on my to do list. If you've followed my side projects you understand where my time has to go.

Good luck everyone, and may the wrenches turn in your favor.

does it matter that I have an 8 year head start... and at least another year to go... 850 miles away, need to finish the wiring, brakes exhaust, and get the engine running......!!!

suby turbo bare metal resto with almost every vendor trick item out there!!!!!

Oh and here I am freshly shaved and my hair done. Yes I plan on fitting in the car.

As long as you meet the criteria, your good.

Criteria to participate:
a. Must include removal and installation, or installation of the engine.
b. Must include significant rust/accident repair, and/or paint and bodywork.
c. Must include significant interior work.

The goal is to finish by September 14, 2016.

Enjoying reading this and it brought back super memories of the World members pulling together to help out a fellow member.

We did this in 48 hours...painted tub to driving. Newbies search Buttercup. It'll be fun following this new build off!

Yes. It is a great story. If anyone has any high resolution photos of Buttercup, it would be great if they submitted them for the Calendar Photo Contest. I'd love to see that car in the calendar.

What about an opportunity say every 90 days for the builds to have a Saturday where other members can show up to pitch in and help? Think of it as catch-up for people with day jobs.

I think there will be some opportunities for stuff like that. That would be very cool. And we are thinking about maybe doing a short video every 3 months of progress, etc., and then putting that all into a single DVD-type thing.

Now that sound great...Steve!

You want to help out with going and visiting, and doing some recording of Challengers that are over on your side of the world? Where are you located?

Sponsorships hints.

Passive: When you do your project intro and to do list, specify the items you will need to acquire, thus letting potential providers make claims and offers.

Aggressive: Send your need-to-acquire list to businesses you frequent or are often supporters of our cause. Emphasize that it's part of something bigger (lots of viewers) and point them to the Challenge thread. Don't forget the paragraph about who you are and what you're doing, and why.

* Don't limit yourself to 914 parts. Electronics, tires, wheels, paint, shop equipment, and tool companies have good size marketing budgets and have been known to write checks for magazine mentions. The mag might even get a few new ad$ out of it.

This is really reading to be an awesome event! So much so that i am looking to find a rolling chassis to enter the event and participate, anyone know of a rolling chassis near Reno nevada that someone would let go for such a purpose?

Thanks,
Reno

What's the purpose of having eliminations at all? Shouldn't the goal be to the cars done and the stories that go along with that? I don't see how you can "vote someone off the island". I just want to see as many cars get back on the road as possible.

I completely agree. And I have been struggling with how to fix that all week. The elimination served two purposes:

1. It keeps it interesting; and
2. Since it is nearly impossible to cover 15 or 16 builds in a single issue of the magazine, it helped cut the filed down to make the coverage more meaningful.

I think I have the solution. This is what I'd like to do:

Instead of Eliminations, the voting (January, April, and July), simply keeps a participant "score." So no one is eliminated. Rather, the field is "scored" along the way. In the end, the summation of all of the votes accumulated during those three voting periods, serves as 1/2 of the final vote. The other 1/2 is gathered in a vote of the participants and 914world at the end.

This keeps things interesting, and allows us to keep everybody in the Challenge. It may actually be more interesting because someone could get off to a slow start but could later catch up and win. Or, 914world members could decide to go help someone that is behind so that they can catch up. Also, it resolves any issues with the fact that participants have different weather in different seasons and seasonal work and/or family responsibilities, etc. (The elimination system before may have favored the people in warm weather climates who could do work early in the Challenge - which is something else I did not like about it). As for coverage, since there are scores kept along the way, it gives us a rational basis to allocate our magazine coverage slightly more towards people that are in the lead. Other people will get some coverage. But, it helps us break it up a little.

I know this sounds a little complicated. But, I think it will actually play out fairly simply. Opinions?

If this gets formalized I will support it by offering a discount on parts and for the winner (if there is a system that can be definitive), I will refund all parts purchased, free parts. You need to determine how to address this, but I think it's worthwhile.
I do need an official entry roster so that I can set everyone up, so I'll lease that up to Steve.
Good luck to all of you!

Thanks Mark. That is very generous. What a prize. Thank you.

There will be a winner. I think we have figured out how to accomplish that aspect of the contest, without excluding anyone along the way (see post 143 above). I will get you an official roster list Monday.

I like it....

Not sure if my car would qualify or not since realisticly I wouldn't start working on it until early November...things it needs for sure:

Need to swap dead motor with running motor (have replacement motor, however it has a few broken exhaust studs)

Needs Hell hole sheetmetal replaced (got most of the new sheet metal for this...I hope...I have not lifted the car to look or cut out the damage to see how extensive it is)

I am sure there are many more small projects the car needs within that time frame!

I am thinking of throwing my hat and 1973 1.7 into the ring. I've got mine pretty stripped and am currently cutting the rust out. I'm active duty Army, usually short on time and always pressed for money. It's been a really casually paced build so far, but I could use a kick in the ass. I'll make a full to do list, but it includes: rust repair, engine rebuild, paint, interior, full brake job, etc. Hoping to do a bunch of customizing and also need a forum for all of the pictures I take (I just need to finally learn to post photos).

Edit add: I am doing everything but machine shop stuff (heads, crank, etc) myself. Doing my own welding, paint, engine rebuild, interior, etc.

When you start is up to you, as long as you meet the criteria (which it sounds like you do), and post once a month. So, you would need to make some progress in October, but, I am sure everybody will come up to speed at different rates.

Let me know if you want to join in. If so we will need your full name, email address, where you are located, and a list of the 5 major things you need to do to the car. Also, you will need to email me a picture of yourself with your car (just PM me and I'll give you my email address).

It sounds like a similar amount of work as a few other cars in the Challenge. I think it would fit right in.

Let me know if you want to join in. If so we will need your full name, email address, where you are located, and a list of the 5 major things you need to do to the car. Also, you will need to email me a picture of yourself with your car (just PM me and I'll give you my email address).

Ok, now that is enough for me to go read this again and possibly enter.
We have a car ready to go here, and free parts would seal it for me.

Rich