trek, just use regular 19mm hex nuts. torque em and everything should be fine right? even the fact that they wont seat right?

Anyone care to call it like it is:

Trek,

Your a dumbass. Please dont get anywhere near me if we end up on the same track with that setup.

Your "Pro's" mount STOCK wheels and TIRES on HONDA's all day long with STOCK lug bolts/nuts. They dont recommend "every" day what people should run on their 33 year old race car.

I dont understand why you fight so much? I was using those EXACT screw in studs back in 1986 when I turned wrenches in high school at Sears (and drove a 914) After 4-5 times of removing the wheels/tires the threads went away. I still see this to this day. Jenny's Orange 73 914 had these and every other one was FUCKED up on a STREET car. STREET.

I dont care about the "race guy's" running them. They probably replace them every other race. Are they running a 2400# 914 or some featherweight 900# open wheeled car?


I'm all for REDNECK engineering when it comes to bailing wire and duct tape.. but not my wheels/brakes/suspension/engine/trans/roll cage/fire system/electrical.

Now for the total dick move: If I see you attending an event with these and it is PCA sponsored.. I will call you out to the person running the event or tech. These are designed for "pretty wheels" not stressed for racing in a 2400# car.


B

Yes sell and install, all day everyday. Pros...



I like the thread. And I really do appreciate the time you'all have spent helping me figure things out in the past.
I thought some of Andy's comments were a personal attack, though.

As in, attacks on my personality or way about me. Not about the topic.



Just because the guys make small peanuts doesn't diminish their ability to properly install a tire on a wheel and then bolt it to a car.


I thought the next run was going to be in Carbon...


KT

LUGNUT POLICE...


KT

a smart man, thinks he knows best....

a wise man listens to others.....

rest of post deleted.....

your life aint my problem

Let me help you understand some more:

Do you know who I turn too and point people too when it comes to tile?

Do you know that I believe you are the best tile person in NorCal?

Do you think that I would even question anything you had to say about tile?

Tile wont fall off my car and hurt me or anyone else.

Please listen to your 914 friends and family. I listen to you when it comes to YOUR industry. How about you listen "just this one time" to those of us in THIS industry. NOt an industry that sees new people every 3 weeks (tire shops) but listen to people who have 20+ years of this.

Please. Please.

These studs are junk. If you have to have a screw in stud.. use the BBS stud. It is the same material Porsche used on wheel lugs back in the day.

I'm begging here.. BEGGING.

Weve never met, I have nothing to gain or loose I just say whats on my mine. If

I think someone is wrong, no matter how long he (or she) has been a member I

let them know. Use the correct lug for the wheel. The arguement that "it hasn't

happened yet" is all and good but tell that to flight 800 out of New York. That

jet had many thousands of miles with no problems, them BOOM. What can happen

will happen, some times it just takes a little longer. Good Luck.

Post Script: Love the video of your car on the track.

trek, yes, this issue goes deeper than just the lugnuts. you know that.
how many times have we been through this exact same thing with you?

Andy

cone vs. ball

What he doesnt understand fully:

The cone will tighten against the HUB after it pulls through the wheel!! It will feel tight every time.. because it IS tight against the HUB and not the wheel.

Been there. Done that. Have the F-d up steel wheels to prove it.


B

I would think that something so small that provides an additional safety benefit on the track would be worthwhile.

[quote name='trekkor' date='Jul 15 2006, 09:37 AM' post='728707']
[quote]

Give the pros a little more credit.

[/quote]

Give tire shop guys more credit??



What's next, give the Jiffy Lube "pros" more credit? They change more oil in a day than most of us will in a lifetime!

So if I just *bow down* then I'm OK again...

Let me get this straight...

I'm a hazard and a redneck, ticking time bomb. Somehow, I've managed to dodge the bullet all these years, and now, it's just a matter of time.

so if I do this:

Click to view attachment

Say torqued, loctited and tack welded. With cones, I'm no good?
With ball seat lugs and now I'm back with the *full* support of the club? ( sarcasm large )

Glad to know how you feel about me.

thanks for editing my post topic, BTW


KT

you are just ignorant. get the ball seats.

Dont call him names. I made a mistake above. I didnt use a smilie.


Use them Trekkor. They are much better than what you had.

100 years of combined racing amongst some of us and WE dont know shit. None of us have ever worked on factory backed professional race teams. Noen of us have seen failures.

I'll go back to lawn mowers.

For those of you scoring at home. Appartently I must be the club bozo.
Why?
because-

My air dam- junk
rear spoiler- useless
brake cooling efforts- don't work
oil cooler location- wrong, overheats
PMS bar mount- can't be fixed, motor fell out
throttle bell crank- can't heel/toe, throttle sticks ( ugly, too )
lack of engine tin- overheats
Hoosier's on 5.5' rims- fell off rim
31mm sway bar- undrivable
rear sway bar- undrivable
Doing a SIX conversion- too expensive, no fun
lap welding vs butt welding- panels already rusted and falling out.
Braided brake lines- no pedal

Hmmm....I miss anything?
Just about everything I try gets mocked and shot down here.
that's OK.

I'm a doer. I do things.

Oh, and dishing insults won't convince me of anything except what type of a person you are.


KT

I have been desperately trying to locate a pic of one of my steel wheels that CRACKED from the lug OUT because I used the cones before I knew better (I was 16)

Let see here:

I personally have ragged your ass about the engine bar and the throttle linkage (the engine bar failed) and I didnt keep up with the throttle stuff.

Other than that I have backed you up.

How about you give me a little more credit? I dont pull this stuff from my ass. I speak from experience, not just mine but from attending track events with 914's since age 16 (35 now)

Not just you-

Collective.

Brad, as you well know. We have done a lot together to make my car what it is today and I am grateful for that.

I just feel like most of the projects I take on are met with "can't be done".
Followed by the favorite mock or digging insult of the day.

Most people on this site don't pull there wheels off and on in a year compared to how many times I do in a month.

You think I'd get a little credit on wheel mounting, torquing and application.

Let's see, how many a/x's and track days and years of street driving in a 914 with these bolts and not a problem?

I must be a fool.

KT

maybe you would get more credit if you started to *do* things *RIGHT* ...

Andy

PS: andy posting from McMarks Puter...

care to add to my "failure" list, Sir?


Restoring to factory original is not the only way to do something.
Oh, wait a minute, most people aren't doing that anyway...


KT

you have to look at the bigger picture sometimes...what if some newbie sees your "failure" proof use of the wrong lug nuts and figures what the hell, it works on KT's car so I'll be fine....and what if his fail??

as to the "need" for special tools or obscene torque values for the BBS Racing studs....sorry, you are totally wrong, no need for special tools, no need for the torque Dan used (no idea where he came up with those numbers)

Trekkor, keep on posting and sharing, You enjoy your car to the fullest.

I enjoy this boads immensly but there are a lot of folks on this board just waiting to nit pick someone to death. A lot of what is said is far from "contructive criticism. The culture seems to be changing.

Funny this is i have seem some really questionable mods on a lot of the cars in this club. But to each his own.

If you dont approve of the knowledge Trekkor shares, feel free not to follow it.

I like reading his posts.

thanks John

I run after-market rims on my air-cooled VW and thus use studs. Loc-titing them in would only work 1/2 the time, the rest of the time the nuts would 'lock' on the stud and the stud would turn, either coming out or going too far in (not enough nut engagement). Now I simply put a small tack weld on the back side of the hub and stud to actually lock the stud in. Problem solved for me. Cut-off wheel easily can take out the tack weld if the stud needs removing.

Just a thought. My eyes glazed over after post #51, too much arguing

Trekkor,

We're not trying to rag on you. Most of us are thinking in terms of precautionary safety.

We do not all believe that you WILL have a wheel failure, but that you MIGHT have a failure due to this.

Take for instance:

When my mom bought her 911SC, she has a VERY clean set of 15x7 and 15x8 polished fuchs that someone spent a lot of money cleaning up. My dad takes it to our local pro wheel shop (I say they are pros because Porsche, BMW and MBZ dealerships in our area use him). After taking the wheels off and putting new tires on Manny calls my dad up, tells us our lug nuts are wrong, we need real porsche lugs. These things create too much pressure on such a small area, they can crack the wheel in that area, then you'd lose the car.

Sure as shit, that following monday we had 16 new stainless ball-seat lugs on my mom's car. Think of it this way, if you were informed it was a problem point, would you put them on your wife's race car?

[If you weren't trying to divorce her, that is.]

I'm down with outside-of-the-box thinking, and you definitely are a doer. I still can't figure out how you stripped, fiber glassed, and reupholstered your seat in two days. For me the only way to learn things is to try them out. And nothing blows more than people telling you it's not going to work. Jake used to come here and bash every idea that wasn't his own, Mueller and your water squirter cooling aid idea. I think that has potential.
But sometimes you really have to pick your battles. And this doesn't seem like the best topic to fight over. I'd go back and pick up some of the ball nuts and compare. Do the paint test and see which ones seat better,and do that.
Ether way, keep pushing the envelope cause I'm a fan of your threads. Just be safe.
Samson

Trekkor, I for one admire your "do it my way" attitude, and esp. that you get things done.

Sometimes, however, and I think this is one of those cases, you dig in and do things out of spite BECAUSE you're being told it's a bad idea. You get unnecessarily stubborn.

On your steel wheels, I suspect the cone nuts would work fine. It's unlikely they're going to crack. It's vaguely possible they may loosen some under track conditions (which cause a remarkable amount of wheel flex. Hubcaps often fly off from steel wheels that you corner too hard with because the wheels flex enough they pop off, which is why hubcaps aren't allowed in many racing organizations.).

On alloys, I think there's a far higher chance they'll crack. If you start running really lightweight wheels, you're really playing with fire.

There are others here who sometimes wind up these kinds of situations unnecessarily, as well. There have already been a number of conversations about "perfect" v. "good enough" in other threads, with some convinced that "not perfect" is "not good enough". The screw-in v. pressed-in studs issue is, I think, symptomatic of that.

At least you're not going off to pout and not play in this sandbox anymore...

This is a DONE topic....

Amended....

I am reopening the thread....it was closed due to complaints....it was reopened due to people that were participants stating that they would play nice....so do so.....

Post some boobies or something....geez....

BUMP!

Here you go Mike

boobies

Oh, you mean those kind of "boobies" I thought we were talking about 914s

Nice boobies Howie....not yer Momz.....yack.....

I believe my steel wheels mating surfaces have taken on the shape of the cone shaped lug bolts I've been using all year. The wheels have been off and on the car over 20 times by now. Maybe 30.
I plan on running 1/4" spacers, so the cone will not bottom into the hub...Ever.

Tell you what, I'll take a wheel with me to Stasis on Monday after work and show them my application. If they determine that a ball seat will still work, I'll just exchange the set for those. They sell both.

I like the idea of welding the stud in for added security, Matt.

At $10 per wheel for the studs, that's no biggie when I replace the rotors.


thanks for reopening the thread, Mikey.

Either way, cone or ball, for your personal application, this is still a cheap and simple solution if you want short or long wheel studs instead of bolts. ( the original statement of this thread )


KT

I'd go with the screw in studs without a second thought.

Thanks Howie....this thread needed that.....

nope... they'll bottom into yer spacers instead

I'm seriously trying to figure out if you're suicidal or just plain ignorant

my last chime-in on this thread: always get the proper lugs for your particular wheel seats. the cost is negligible (in racing terms...), so why not? i firmly believe that it IS safer.

Apparently my last post was ignored

I have more patience than you can ever imagine.




hello?!? What more do want from me?


KT

See, there we go again....

name calling for no good reason....

Can't we state our opinions and leave it at that...?



I agree that the cone lugs "might" bottom out on the spacers just like the hub....

so, there you go....

IF he is dealing with a race shop and he shows them his particular application I would hope he would get the correct parts and information..

If not he can always come back here and get friendly advice and information....

hhmm...It seems that most of the stuff trek has done that everyone says "will never work" seem to have worked out fine... Now I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I am only saying that with this many people saying not to, I would not do it. That is just the way I do it. I am still learning, and will continue to listen to the people that know more than me. Do what you want trekkor, I will still back you up.

If indeed cone lugs are needed and the spacers are an issue, of course they can be cut with a profile that elimimnates possible contact.

there doesn't appear to be any evidence that the current bolts are touching the hubs so, who really knows?


KT

Some stuff that people come up with is different and it will work and surprise people, for example...who did the first BMW 320i brake caliper install on a 914?

What Trek is proposing ....in THIS case ...is not sanctioned by most race organizations.....

BIG difference.....

Adapters that bolt on to a wheel disc, the ones that change the bolt pattern, SCREW IN STUDS are flat out BANNED in SCCA, PCA and POC for DE and racing...SOME will allow them for AX, which is as we all know like masturbating.....not the real thing.

So there really should be no arguement....

Here are a couple of extreme close-ups

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

I have no problem using whatever is the safest.
You can see the cut where the cone has been seating.
Also, there appears to be plenty of surface for a ball as well.

I wonder what Stasis will say?
BTW, they did ask me which style I needed.
I told them "cone".

Like I posted way back when, I have no problem being wrong and I may be.
It's people treating me with total disrespect like we're back in 1st grade that I don't really care for.


KT

SOME people, Trek....SOME.....

I don't think I could have expressed my own thoughts any better than that. Play safe Trek!

Anywho...

I may need some screw in studs in the near future for the new wheels. Where can these "BBS" (as i the wheel mfg?) be obtained?

Gint,

www.bimmerworld.com

They sell racing stuff for BMWs mainly. If you go into their menu under wheels and accessories you will find they have several types of screw in studs. They carry the BBS racing studs in various lengths. They are specifically listed for Porsche.

This is where I got mine and they are working perfectly.

I use steel ball seat lug nuts with these for my Fuchs wheels.

They are not cheap but they were suggested to me by Mueller.

IIRC I got 80mm because of my spacer sizes.

Thanks Dan!

and who's fault is that?

here's my response to your initial post:



no personal attacks, no namecalling, no first grade lingo, no evil smilies ...
i stated a simple fact. that mueller had already looked at those (had you been at patricks open day at his company you would have seen them first hand) and deemed them unworthy.

any *normal* person would have been happy to get some real life feedback about a product they just purchased and don't know nothing about.
you, on the other hand took it as a personal attack on your oh so glory "i'm a doer. i do things." mentality.

riddle me this, why is it that any post you ever started about something you bought for your car starts with the word "cheap"?

Andy