Used to illuminate your hindend better for cars approaching you from the rear during fog and other inclimate weather.

the rear fog light shines about 4 times brighter that the brake lights do

this is just a security thing, so that other drivers behind you can see you earlier in the fog or at heavy rain

at Austria it's forbidden to use it when the wheater is good


and ... you should want one because it's a rare option

Gustl

I'm not from Missouri, but can someone "show me"/prove that this an available option in the states - on a 914, during the 70's?
Pat

Hi Pat,

Lets go at it this way. You prove to us it's not an option as you suspect. It's in the parts book & was recently available from Porsche untill it went NLA.

I suspect it was not a popular accessory back in the 70's if you lived in sunny CA. Now it's rare as hens teeth.

Tom

The way I remember it it was a dealer option available on any Porsche back in the early 70s'. Very Euro & not popular in the states. I do remember seeing them on/for lots of 911s' & the occasional 914, however I never saw one on a 924 or a 928. This does not mean that they were not available on those cars.

It probably meant that; by that time they incorporated the rear fog into the taillight assembly. There's probably an empty bulb socket in there on the drivers side (all speculation based on the fact that new BMW's and Mercedes and Audi's all have this now incorporated into the light assembly)

Scirocco II is very guilty of this- dremel out the US black plastic & plop the bulb in- instant "Euro".

And again, this of course, is to give the driver of these luxury haunts additional illlumination while driving their car backwards in the fog.

Did that very thing with my '82 Scirocco. But, that was 1982.

When in Europe, as one drives the Autobahn at warp speed, in the fog, mist, or snow, it is required one have this lit on the rear of ones car, so approaching fellow Autobahn-stormers can see you and avoid a major rear-ender at triple digits.

On Euro spec cars, as seen on Ebay from time to time , you will see them on the backs of 928's especially. On the 924, 944 series, the brighter light goes in a portion of the driver, or LH side, tail lamp.

On some American spec cars, from Germany, such as our 200 Turbo Audi's, the rear fog light feature is actually integrated into the tail lamp system and has a factory dash switch employed on all the cars sent here.

I had never seen one on a teener, and , Sorry Tom, find it fits much like a saddle on a sow.
I wish my car had had it though, just simply because of its uniqueness and relative rarity. BUT, I would never threaten my tail panel of my lovely, now sitting in the garage cowering at the presence of this now new found "option". I will happily live without its presence appearing in all its obtrusiveness, not at all like the presence of the beauty mark on Cindy Crawford's left cheek.

BUT, if I ever locate one, I will be happy to leave it in its container, and simply admire its beauty in that form....................

Sounds like the French justice system: you're guilty, now prove your innocent! En garde!

Paul

One has to try to remeber that, in the early-mid 70's, automotive lighting allowances varied by stae in the US. Since this came up, I went searching through my 914 records because something in the back of my head was nagging at me.

Found this, though it has no relevance to the rear fog. Coming back from the '74 Pocono Parade, I was stopped and ticketed by a PA state trooper in Washington, Pa for illegal lights. I had replaced my sealed beams with H2's before going to the Parade. No gig at the Parade, but it cost me $27.50 later. For those who weren't there, or don't remeber, changing headlights to euro "fashion" lights was a no-no in many parts of the US. I knew it was against the law in Ohio & Kentucky, but never gave a thought to Pa. Paid the fine & put the sealed beams back on. They're still there today. H2's got put on my 911. They're still there today.

Means nothing to this discussion (I guess), other that to reiterate that lighting laws in the US were very stringent during that period.
Pat

actually, on all of the bright, clear, well-lit So Cal roads, it allows those drivers to use the rear fogs with the front fogs for full 360 degree blazing annoying "look at me, I'm cool!!!" coverage.

I'm here!

Been busy, but I had time today to check in...

And to remove the rear foglight harness from my '74. (I won't be needing it for the EV conversion, and the rear solenoid I was using it for died a long time ago!)

Any get-togethers coming up? 9:14 Breakfast at IHOP? Anything? I'd prefer handing this to Jeff in person...

Here's a few pics of it stretched out for those that can't wait:

Oh, and I'm almost positive that the wires were just stripped and tinned at the back end, one still had the solder on it when I "Un-crimped" the connector.

More pics:

Wow! Way cool. Am I reading this right? 233"

Where does this thing route?

Thanks Mike.

I hope you and Jeff can hook up. Seems like a simple one but, I don't harnesses, Jeff does.

Yup, 233" total for the white/green wire. It follows the rear harness around the trunk, over the wheel arch and down into the left "pit" where the ground is tied under the relay board. From there it joins the main harness across the firewall, down through the rubber tube and into the tunnel. So I'm guessing there is enough length to follow the wires along the top of the tunnel and up into the dash somehow. It must connect to the fuse block or the foglight switch, so it's probably just the right length for either of those. Luckily, I did not want to cut the nice insulated connector off the front end when I wired it to a pushbutton on my console, been coiled up in there for quite some time... With all the mods I'm doing now, I'm sure I don't need it, so Hopefully Jeff will be able to find the proper wire color and sleeving to make you all some nice repros...

is your car ORIGANALLY euro rear lights. i'm interested in switching to euro's. what is different about the wiring if anything?... it's acured to me the outer orange SHOULDN'T come on for brakes, just turn signal... right?... thats the way it is on newer euro vrs. u.s. spec.ed cars

i've found no answers yet.

Click to view attachment

Nothing is different in the wiring. For me, switching to Euro lenses on my '76 when I moved back to Germany was a matter of popping the red lenses off and the Euro lenses on.

By the way, the amber lights have never been used for brake light functionality in Europe. They're only ever used for turn signals.

I now have my lamp and inside bracket.
Eric, has the outside bracket been completed yet?
Jeff, have you started making harnesses yet?

Did we lose posts from Sept & Oct? Where are the posts regarding the brackets Eric was making?

Eric, Dave & Jeff,

Thanks for keeping this harness issue current. Hopefully our Jeff B can put one together.

Tom

Just so you'll know that I'm watching...

You'll all burn in hell for this abomination that won't show on your COA! Beg to be forgiven! Remove those things, weld the holes & repaint! Or is that repent!
Pat

You KNEW I couldn't shut up forever!

Well hey, I'll just fake up a window sticker for my car with all the extras that will be on it. Then I'll apply for my COA, and voila, I'll have proof. You know I'm just replacing parts that some DPO has previously removed, right?

I haven't kept up with this thread...I will contact Mike to see when we can hook-up.

I picked up the harness last night, I am sure it will not be a problem to fab these up. Thanks Mike! I do have some questions though:

1. the cockpit end is a 2.5mm male wire terminal, I am guessing it attaches to the fog light switch on the dash, can anyone verify before IO go tearing into my dash to confirm? Seem like an odd wire termional for that.

2. How does the harness attach to the fog light assembly? I assume it goes through rubber grommets in the tailpanel and foglight housing, but are both wires tinned and screwed down for the electrical connection or is there a terminal on each wire? I saw the photos in the early posts, they dont show the ground wire

The only challenge I see is fishing 20 feet of wiring through 20 feet of heat shrink tubing...

Hi Jeff,

Put me on the list for a wire harness & let me know how much to send $___?

The connection wire into the housing was a short wire about 12" long that threads through the fog light housing then through a little grommett in the sheet metal into the trunk. I was just going to connect the wires at this location, but a simple wire connector would be great. Here's a photo of two fog light housings that might clear up the connection. The euro one (white/green) wire is similiar to the U.S. one that had the wire missing. Hope that helps, but this is just my guess.


Tom

I only took a quick look at my lamp assembly. Bulb was not included. It is the second version shown with the black screws and single base. There is a 1/4" male spade connector that I assume is for the +12VDC. I did not spot a ground connection so I will have to check on that. It may be grounded through the body of the housing.

I don't know how Eric is doing with the bracket yet.

I looked at a fog light switch last night, its got 3 male tabs, so apparently the harness does not connect to the switch body, I will need to look at the fuse panel and foglight relay next for the connection.

The way I think the harness connects to the light fixture is that the white/green stripe wire goes through a grommet in the tailpanel, through the hollow mounting bolt of the fixture and into a hole/screwfitting inside the foglight. This wire is pretinned on the harness.

The ground wire would have an eyelet wire terminal and mount under one of the mounting bolt/screw for the bracket, inside the trunk. Please tell me the OD of this mounting bolt so I can get the right eyelet terminal. This creates a redundant ground because the ground wire at the foglight goes back to the ground lug under the relay plate, but it has to be this way unless there is a place to mount the ground wire inside the foglight assembly.

Anyone with a foglight assembly please confirm these wiring connections!

Here is the bulbholder from my lamp.
Brass 0.25" spade is riveted to the positive center contact.
There is no place to connect the ground lead, so it must be body grounded to the chassis. No need for a ground wire.

Sorry, I've been away from this.

Dave, I have one extra bracket done. Not extremely happy with the angle right now but it's workable. I wouldn't mind having the original to fab off. If Tom's still OK with that then I would take orders off that concept. It's basically shaping up like this:

Light - Available from Porsche
Outer Bracket - Eric to fab
Inner Bracket - Available from Porsche
Harness - Jeff to fab

Jeff, the mounting bolts are your standard 6M variety.

Both of my light bases are the earlier pre-tinned wire types that Tom shows. One actually is the one Tom shows and the other is identical to Dave's new base but with a post and set screw standing where the rivet is attaching the spade in his picture. It seems fairly clear that the early lights have posts with set screws and the modern versions are spades. This makes an off the shelf harness solution difficult.

Eric, on the bracket I'm not in a great hurry, so I can wait for you to make some more that you are happy with.

Jeff, since my light is body grounded to the chassis, and therefor does not require the ground lead, I could get by with a 233" (20 foot) length of white/green-stripe wire on which I can put my own connectors and sleeve with heat shrink if I so choose.

Hi Eric,

The offer is still open to send my outside bracket as a pattern. Just say the word & I'll send it to so you can get a better duplicate made. Let me know in the next few days, because I am goin on a (2) week vacation and will not be back till late this month.

Tom

Word.

I'll get it out Monday by Priority Mail.

T

So I understand there were two different housings, with two different connection arrangements. I only have the one harness which has two wires in it.

Dave, I can certainly just send you some of the single white/green stripe wire when I get it if that what you want, but it would not look stock.

I think the best answer is to make the harness with both wires and let each person put whatever end terminal on it they need. The wire with a terminal on it would not fit through the hollow housing mount anyway, the terminal must have been installed later.

I need help figuring out where to connect the switch end, it seems like it should attach the the foglight switch which has 3 male tabs on it. The harness has a MALE 1/4" wire terminal and will not attach. Maybe it goes to a piggyback connector on the fuseblock for the foglights?

Then I am ready to start production...

Me too. At this point, I think it would be best for those who want the outer mount to sign up. This way I can get it off to the metal fabricators with a quantity as soon as it arrives. This means we can get it back to our generous sponsor ASAP. I currently have:

1 Dave Pateman
1 Eric Shea

If anyone else is still in the hunt, let me know.

I just caught this while reading back through the thread.

"Pat defaced a vintage 82 Scirocco with a Dremel???"

WHAT WAS HE THINKING!?!?!

Eric,

I too would like one of the outer fog light mount pieces. Please add me to your list.

Thanks,
Bill Vogt

The wiring diagram for fog lights shows a white/green wire attached to post 87 of the switch. This would be for existing front fog lights. So I would say that the rear harness should be a piggyback to double-mount the two wires on a single post.
Perhaps a European manual might explain the rear fog connections better.
For my own use, a ground wire is useless since there is no way to connect it to the light. It would just make adding the harness to the existing wiring that much more difficult.

Both fog light housing styles only have one pole to the lightbulb Dave. They both ground to the chassis, but then there is a dedicated brown wire ground from a mounting bolt to the ground point under the regulator plate for a better ground, becasue those mounting bolts would only ground through paint on the chassis.

Good point. Then what about a ring connector to go under a nut on the inside support plate. That is an M6 nut. The ground wire could be several inches shorter as a result.

That was my thought.

We have an originally installed one here on the board. Jim's green 914-6. Maybe he could shed some light.

Eric,

Opps, Post office is closed for Veterans Day. It goes out tomorrow A.M.

T
BTW Everyone: I am outa here for a (2) weeks vacation in FL with family. No one will hear from me till later this month.

Everyone have a great Thanksgiving.

It was 25 years ago! I'm on parole to this day about it! Though, I am thinking about converting my Sable's headlights to Xenon. I just want to burn the retinas out of the fricking BMW drivers for a change.

Whaddaya think? Can it be done?

Sorry to hijack.

Pat

Below is the photo of the end of the harness to the lamp.

A ring terminal on the ground is exactly my thought, attached to the M6 bolt inside the trunk.

The white/green wire is actually pre-tinned for mounting to a single bus bar hole with a screw down like on the one style of foglight housings...Dave, you could just mount a female spade connector to the wire after feeding it through the foglight housing.

Does it look like there is adequate length on the shorter section of casing around the white/green wire to make it all the way through the tailpanel grommet, into the foglight housing?

I have had no luck finding anything on the facotry wiring diagrams about where to attach the harness to switched power. Someone suggested that the harness mount with a double-ended female connector or a piggyback to the foglight switch which seemed reasonable. Does that sound ok to everyone?

I estimate at least 3" of white wire to go through the wall, up the tube and terminate on the spade. That would be tight, leaving no working room.

The white/green wire exits the body panel and immediately goes through the center of the mounting shaft of the light. When mounted to the car, the end of that shaft almost touches the body and, with a grommet on the body (which Jim says is stock) it would literally "touch" the grommet/body.

Answer: Yes, that casing would be adequate as it would pass through the body and immediately enter the hollow mounting shaft of the light. It (the casing) would probably terminate in the shaft leaving just the white wire to enter the light housing. Seems perfect.

Hi guys,

I 've been away for 2-weeks & wondering what's going on with this wiring issue??

Put me on the list if a wiring harness becomes available.

Tom

Metal shop called yesterday. 3 rear brackets are done.