I just got a call from my insurance company. For a 73 914 with an estimated 144,000mi, bucket seats, targa top, power steering, power breaks

$4770 with $500 taken away if I keep it for salvage



I am not accepting this.....time to check my options.

Tell them they are either missing a 1 from the front of the numbers or a zero on the end.

See which one they prefer.

Look like it's time to do a little research.

Blow me......

Did ya tell them it was a 914/6?

Get a free eval from PCA.

Start downloading ads from evilBay, I also heard Rick Ollah had some help from various sources.....

not in a million years.

This happened to me in 1984 when I wrecked my first 6! I had to show documentation of what it would cost to build it bact to the condition mine was "excelent like new condition" I was able to show that with the flairs and 6 and everything it would cost approx:$12,500. Keep in mind this is in 1984! They gave me $12,000 and the car for $500!

For All my friends. This is not professional advice just one friend making a suggestion to another. Never meet with an insurance appraiser without having done your homework first! You do not want to have to enter into a negociation from an offer like this. Nicely ask your appraiser to take a copy of your research. Some will refuse.

EDIT: I will add more info here. I'm working, getting calls and jumping back and forth from my software to the net.

First thing: You will aways need to give a statement. Do not volenteer info. Only answer what is asked of you and be brief but factual.

Second: only give this to your carrier unless they advise you otherwise. Anyone else contacts you, refer them to your carrier.

Next: Be prepared. Next after that, be prepared. Some appraisers will call and advise you they are going out to inspect your car. Most prefer to just inspect it without you there. Don't let this happen!

Then: Be prepared! do research before your meeting. Get copies of at least 3 comparable vehicles in writting! Ask the appriaser to take copies with him. Some will not want them, make them take them if you have to sneak them in his car.

I don't know how many times I've had someone tell me on the phone; "there's no effin way I'm settling for that! My effin car is worth way more that that" Then when I instruct them on what it will take to change my figures they cant' produce info showing more value.

I'm going to let you guys in on something. Most auto appraisers have no clue about cars period! I worked with a whole dept. of college educated pencil pushers that wouldn't know the difference between a Sunbeam Imp, Renault Gordini and a Ford Escort. Can you imagine asking what kind of projects they were working on and having every one of those guys look at me like...Huh?
They were trained to write an estimate in a one week class, and rely on data they can get off the internet. Granted, they can't tell if the vehicle they have sourced is actually the same as yours but hey, if it came up on the search we'll go with it!

And finally, be prepared! Don't give the appraiser a bullshit letter from some bull shit dealer saying they think your car is worth $XXXXX.XX because they know so much. Get the letter but have them refer to actual cars they have, either the value of these cars or the price they are currently FOR SALE for.

BTW: I no longer work as an auto damage appraiser.

Auto Damage Appraisers will not intensionally give you a low ball offer. It happens to be against the law. However they will not put a lot of time in doing research if they get a couple quick and dirty hits during a search. These guys are required in many cases to present an offer to settle within 24 hours. That's why I express the importance of doing your own research.

^^^^ I Agree!!

make a list of all your expenditures and gather info from other cars. I gave my insurance guy 3 want ads for an ok, very good, and concourse 914. The lowest was about $4500, the middle $9000, and the concourse was about $17000. My expenditures list came out to about $7500 and the insurance co. offered $7800 for my 71 1.7L 4-lugger 914.

Keep working with these guys to get what you want.

Evil, Contact Dr 914...he has a repuation, he can be checked by insurance, and he should be able to help access your car.

Rich

Not too surprising. Most insurance companies will give you a low ball offer initially, hoping you will bite. Now, it's time to haggle. Stay solid and get what you want.

Nov 2007 Excellence values:

914 2.0 1973

so-so $9,835
Good $11,184
Excellent: $14,970

Nice, they set the salvage value at $500

My 72 Westie was in a accident and my insurance company decided it was a writeoff. (Total parts to fix it were under $200) They offered me what I had payed for it, less my deductable and the salvage value. I had to hire a independent appraiser (cost $550) as they refused to use the figures I supplied (ebay and Samba averages to like year and model). Ended up they payed me 4X there initial offer and then they tryed to raise the salvage value to recoup some of the settlement. The final settlement was within $300 of what I told them it was worth.

Thank them for offering to pay for the wheels & tires and ask them the procedure for disputing the settlement. Start asking around for the names of independent appraisers in your area. Local car clubs are a good source.

In 2001 I was hit in the right rear by an idiot trying to pass between the lanes on the 580 in Fairfield. He spun me and then tagged the right front on his way by. I spun around probably 4 times before coming to a stop next to the Armco on the inside shoulder. That 240Z was perfect. The engine had not had its first oil change. The car was covered from front to rear with road rash from the rocks that came up as I spun. The impact damage was minor. I drove it home...

I had to get the insurance information from CHP a month after the fact as he was arrested at the scene. Seems he was a little lit up on Friday after work. I called California AAA and asked when I was going to hear from them and they were shocked to find that their insured had been in "another" accident the same day as the last one. Seems he didn't mention either me or the woman he punted through the fence and into the field on the outside of the highway. That woman was cut out of her Camry and airlifted to UCDavis in Sacramento. I guess he told them he spun and hit the gaurdrail. His POS Firebird had already been repaired!

After all of the apologies for the behaviour of their insured and the assurances he was cancelled and would be prosecuted for fraud they dug in...
They offered me $2000 and I could keep the car for $700. Ahhh no. I had an appraisal done just 3 months before the accident and they had placed the value at $14000.00. Well, AAA said, we will have to look into this. They sent an independent appraiser who placed the value at $15000.00. Well, now they were willing to settle for the $14000.00! Ummm no, I said. I will take the $15000.00 from the more recent appraisal and keep the car. They knew they were screwed so they settled.

I am pretty sure that I got another $15000.00 from selling the parts. I know I got $5000.00 for the engine alone and a guy even drove down from Oregon to get it.

They want to settle. The are in fact under pressure at my own insurance company to settle within a fairly short period.

Be reasonable in your manner but steadfast in your intention to get what your car is worth. You are a good deal smarter than the insurance adjuster. As Rick said, most of them are pretty clueless.

PCA Valuation, Excellence November issues, Statements from owners of similar cars.

Glad you weren't hurt... Behave out there Mike. It sounds like black ice to me...

yea, that offer is way to low. Update us on the haggling.

I haven't read the post yet Mike. I just saw the title of the thread. Let me guess... $5k? I'll go read your post now.

Edit:

I was only $230 off!

I have to go read Rick's post.

Sorry Mike. Give 'em hell!

OK, I am home now and can elaborate on what happened.

Their adjuster has already gone to the car and "assessed" it. I was unable to be there and it sounds as if it wouldnt have mattered any how. My company consults an appraisal company to look at the wrecks and that appraiser reports back. Then one of them enters the year, make and model plus mileage and extra "factory" features (more on this later) into a computer that searches the local area for "similar" vehicles to generate a value. My car has no equal around here, but they are having a problem seeing this.
When they called me and started saying "power steering and power brakes" I was like, "whoa, I see a major problem in your valuation algorhythm." I tried to explain that my car was not your ordinary 914 and the lady said that any thing I did to it that is 3 years old or more is not considered towards the value and that the car will only be valued against similar stock models for that year (I am still trying to figure this one out).
I asked a hypothetical question about "what if the car had a $1M engine in it" and the lady got all snippy and said that I should have it insured with classic car auto insurance. I told her that my car is worth about $35K since that is what I was offered for it (just a working figure) and she again got pissy and mentioned the classic ins. I answered her back saying that $35k is the price for a nice new honda and you wouldnt put classic insurance on that. The car is not worth a mint, but it is damn sure worth more than $4.7k.

Soooo, I told her that I have a licensed appraiser on retainer already and that he would be willing to talk with their appraiser to help come to a more reasonable settlement. She said that their regional appraiser would contact my appraiser and I gave her the info. then I asked for the contact info for their guy and she got all weird and said that she would have to email her guy and see how this was to go down. I was pretty put off by this, but I am in NO hurry so they are gonna hate me as I am not gonna be mean or rude, just tenacious and patient. I will contact George and see what he has to offer as well as my buddy who just sold a stock /4 1976 for $20k that is headed to Barret-Jackson.

The only concern that I have is that they will say my car was insured as a /4 and that it is not going to be covered with the /6 engine. Even if, as a /4 that car was still easily worth $15k on this coast being that it was good paint, no rust and lots of upgrades.

If the adjuster and appraiser can not reach an agreement I have to go to an umpire for which I have to pay 50%. The umpire will hear both sides and his decision is final. The lady told me that the umpire generally settles lower then their initial offer (to scare me off I am sure). I told her that no one in their right mind would offer the original amount and no one with any knowledge of these cars would then lower it.

Input?

We should have a "So you crashed your car, now what?" Thread. Maybe in the Classic threads or something.

Mike -

If it would help, I just sold my 6 conversion. I have a bill of sale plus a sh*tload of photos to give your appraiser for a "similar" car. Just email if you need the info.

Or Be sure your insured for what you think its worth.

Good Luck Mike.

Well then....we now go to the agreed/replacement value which has different definitions in each state.

There's a REASON Insurance companies are rich.....

I have an agent who's my brother in law....I tell him every upgrade I have and to make sure that it's covered....in writing....prior to me stuffing it.

But that's 20/20 hindsight and you don't need to hear that.....

I am not expecting anything close to $35K, but fair and reasonable would be great. Classic car insurance has restrictions, often. I have no interest in that. You can not get a rust free car out here for $4.7k.

If you wouldn't mind saying, who is your insurance company?

My nephew wrecked his e30 m3 6 month ago.
Insuranced offered 5k, we expected ~12k, sent some clssifieds, they offered 15k.
I think some companies not intentionally trying to low-ball their insured clients .. they just have NO clue what certain cars are worth. (Ironic, cause that's their business.) Hopefully, in the end, they treat you right...

I only want enough to:

1- get good tub
2- repair tub, flair tub, paint tub
3- repair any of the bits from the donor car so I can transfer them over to the tub.

Not greedy, just want what I have been paying for.

My next call would be to a lawyer. Get her name and address. One letter on letterhead at least to start. Watch her attitude change.

I hope they are just ignorant. I know they are ignorant, but hope they are not so willfully. I am trying to work with them and currently hold no malice other then I think the chick talking to me was a bit of a bitch in how she handled my polite disagreements with her estimations.

My company is USAA and has been fantastic to deal with in most all regards for a long time. I have only had one bad employee and this current situation to bitch about and they are by far the exception.

In which case you should really be set. I have been a member of USAA for 15 years now, and I have never had a problem.

Ignorance is often the case. I had my Civic broken into, I thought I would play hell getting my aftermarket EMS replaced. They wondered if it was an amp etc.... I had to go into detail about what an EMS does, I sent them to the website I bought it from and told them the model...they looked, said ok and paid me full price for it. (and even gave me an upgraded stereo to boot) They have been really understanding during accidents, my car was hit in a parking lot by an uninsured idiot...they actually came down on my $500 deductible because I did not have the cash at the time, they also made sure my rates did not increase due to an accident that was not my fault.

Deal with them rationally, and I think they will do the same.

Stick to your guns and go slow.
You have pic's and paper of everything done to it.
Local sales do not count on a car this old.
You have to tell them how far away a replacement car would be and add shipping.
By all means call George.
He may not remember it but he helped me recoup my loss of my 73 zambisie by
over 3 times what I paid for it.
This was in the mid 90's.
I will never forget him for helping me out like that.
Take care, John

Evil one, you shouldn't have to get laywers involved. I agree with what was said above. Go slow, take your time, bring lots of documentation to the table. The Excellece Mag is a good one for sure. They'll come up, a lot. It's only thier first offer. Trust me, only about 15% of people take the first offer, but hey 15% do so there's always a chance for them to save money. Just keep at it.

Mike,

I didn't know you were military! They are supposed to be respectful to a fault. They still call me Colonel.

The November issue of Excellence should raise the estimate. I just sold the Bumblebee for almost triple that offer. It was a six conversion as well. It wasn't nearly as civilized as yours either.

I had a long chat with my USAA rep about insuring my VW and she put emphasis on the fact that they will treat my classic as "any other" car, and that I should not expect special compensation or extraordinary repair work above what they would do to any other car.

Funny, she also said to me that I should get classic car insurance if I had a problem with their policy, and I wasn't even making a claim but just asking about their coverage !

I was so put off by her attitude that I challenged her asking how they would value a 60' VW in excellent condition with less than 100k miles.

Basically, long story short, she said they go by "the book" and my car was extimated at 6-12k in excellent condition. I told her that would cover my car just fine and she got extremely nice after that.


Whats up with them?
Classic Car Haters.

F insurance companies ! Take your laptop in with ya !


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914...1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914...1QQcmdZViewItem



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914...1QQcmdZViewItem

I've been on both sides of this fence. USAA is extremely agressive when it comes to fast settlements. Yes, this is a customer service standard, however this is not always the best method to resolve a complicated issue. When you call and get their voice mail each rep needs to advise you of an extension where you can give customer feedback.

Yes, classic car insurance is best for our cars but yes it has restrictions. It is also obvious USAA's appraiser rushed to get his info to the rep. Once he completes his work he closes his file. That's why she needs to see how this is to play out. She needs to call the guy to see if he will meet with you. He may have some kind of contract with them.

Yes, they will not want to pay for special engines, tires, wheels, interior, lights, stereo or anything that is not standard on a 914 within your vin range.

Here's what she told you, All cars have engines, tires, and interiors as they were manufactured. In order to license, insure and drive your vehicle all these things need to be present and working. If your engine fails and needs to be replaced, the vehicle is no good with out the engine. If this is the case the vehicle would be worth less than one the same year with a working engine.

Now, where they fall short is they didn't even value your car at fair market value as if it still had a 4 cylinder. They'll come back to the table. It will just take longer.

Thanks for the ebay links. I downloaded at least one of them for my records.

USAA will e good to you. Give them the facts and work the system and I know you will come out on top. Between Ron, George, eBay, and Excellence price valuations, I think you will be able to make a very strong case twods getting all your money back. Even if the give you /4 prices, i'd be shocked if you walk with less then $15. USAA has been very good to Erin and I (though she has tested that more then I have.)

Zach

Dr. E,
Sorry, I missed this whole ordeal. I have my teener insured through Hagerty under classic and they told me no mileage restrictions. Not sure if there were other areas that may have hindered your insurance with them. Just remember, if you are haggling with USAA and they are your insurance, that they work for you!!! I had a similar experience with State Farm on a week old 200 mile driven VW Jetta that got smashed due to their client failure to yield right of way. So damage pre est. at $8,000 plus rental of rent a car, storage, and medical bills (mine) finally when I put it to them that if they thought the car was worth repairing that they do so and sell it but I wanted a new car. Again, I had to remind them that they work for me.
Evan little bean

Check this out. This is a very well recognized and utilized resource for the insurance industry.

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=...17033&da=-1

This is for your zip code area...

NIIICE

Yah you betcha, this is a stock 2.0 4 cylinder... I have no idea what this guy looked at to get a FAIR market value...

Thanks for the words, bros. It looks as if they looked at original price from NADA for my offer. The NADA is much more resonable and what I am expecting for the insurance I have been paying. It would be different if I were paying $40/mo, but I was paying more, plus I insure my whole fleet with USAA except for the Honda as they stopped insuring motorcycles. I have had to claim with USAA on a few occasions....this is the first time it is just me and no other driver causing the accident

George has already agreed to help out any way he can . I need to get him pics and details later this week.




[quote name='rick 918-S' date='May 5 2008, 09:46 PM' post='1028657']
--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ May 5 2008, 05:39 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
[quote name='rick 918-S' post='1028653' date='May 5 2008, 05:37 PM']
Check this out. This is a very well recognized and utilized resource for the insurance industry.

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=...17033&da=-1

This is for your zip code area...
[/quote]


NIIICE
[/quote]

Yah you betcha, this is a stock 2.0 4 cylinder... I have no idea what this guy looked at to get a FAIR market value...
[/quote]

There is a /6 price thread on the Road Glue site that gets updated whenever an original /6 goes on the blocks. Maybe there should be a /6 conversion price thread here. While they are well-known to us they are unlikely to be familiar to people outside the 914 community as a whole, let alone within the insurance appraisal industry.

Skip

I also have USAA but have never had to file a claim with them so i am very interested in how this whole thing turns out becasue I have my 6 conversion insured with them. Keep us posted man and good luck. Maybe after you settel I can call them up and say "Hey this is what mine sould be insured for." True mine isnt as nice as yours was but better to try and use the leverage that I do have.

So the next person in line called me today...or it was the other chick I talked to and she had an attitude adjustment. She started at me about the 6cyl engine not being stock nor the front and rear bumpers. I told her that regardless of that the value offered is far from market. She said that their adjuster was working on valuating the car and that is how they found out the engine and bumpers were not stock. I told her that regardless of those facts, the price of a nice stock 73 /4 was much higher according to many respected sources in print and in the flesh. I offered to give them my sources to help them valuate my car more appropriately and she finally gave in and gave me a fax number for my stuff. I dont know how that is gonna help with communicating with the folks in the know who need a phone, but one step at a time.

If nothing else, you have one more piece of documentation that you at least tried to help out and made them aware of what fair value is...keep those fax transmission sheets!

Sucks Good Luck!!!

I know this doesn't help now but I have my Insurance thru Hagerty Ins and has a set agreed value at 16k 0ded( 73 4cyl 1.8) for less than $200 a year. Worth the call.

Just keep plugging away and you'll get what you deserve. It's the easy people that get the low payouts, don't be an easy one. There's no need to be a dick, just persistent.

Didn't you have an offer of 25k a while back Evil? USAA probably would laugh at that but if given with prices of cars similar? It may make it more realistic to them

Might be worth talking to the guy who offered you the 25k & see if you could get the offer in writing. Seems like he was some kind of dealer

Good luck either way!

That's the risk of not purchasing collector/classic car coverage with an agreed value. But your absolutely correct about the fair market value issue. It sounds like the guy maybe dinged you for not having the "original" engine or bumpers.

I figure that I am getting to keep the engine and /6 goodies so fair market value fo a /4 would be fine. I have a lead on some donor tubs and will be spending most of the money with Scotty B on paint and minor body work. Keeping it all in the family

This really sucks for you Evil one and I am going to use it as a leason for myself to possibly change my policy to reflect an agreed value. I go through Progressive and have no idea what they value my car at? Sounds like your making a little progress with your settlement. Good on you for that. Keep at em'!

Which makes sense if you're looking at the car as a 'bastard'. The reality that they're not aware of is that the non-original motor is actually a standard 'upgrade' for these cars. Because they don't know better, putting a six in a 914 is the same us putting a Geo Metro motor in there. Might be worth getting together a stack of cars for sale that have conversion motors.