Nope wasnt me. Twice I was on the bad end of AA's dealings. Nothing major they both got worked out. But the 2nd one I thought was pretty shady. Dave at GPR was not answering his phones and I called AA up to see if they had the part I needed. I told them who I was and that I knew they had a "agreement with GPR". THey had the parts. I said ok let me see if I can still try and get Dave before I order. Ended up getting a hold of Dave on his cell. No need to order from AA. But what shows up at my house, the parts I inquired about. Mind you not ordered didnt even talk about shipping. Use of credit card without my authorizing. Not cool.

Also the thing the gets me is how AA/George is threaten by us and our resources. The way he put me down about my rear panels and does anybody remember when he invaded our resource section and posted on our members topics.

On our own resource topics, things that we made, he posted his stuff for sale. Now cmon on how low is that.

How about the 914-6 vin swapping
or the 914-6 oil cooler on ebay that was a 911 cooler.

The list goes on and on.

You worked it out right? So why post here? Either you worked it out or you didn't. If you did, you have no call posting about it here. You did the right thing and went to the source and "worked out" the problem. You apparently were satisfied because the problem was "worked out". Is it fair to call him out publically after he made the effort and as you have stated got it "worked out?"

Bashing a person or company on the internet is gang mentality. Count the number of people who agree with you and you will see it is small. Post a lot, and you look like a huge group. Most of you proclaiming you haven't bought anything from AA in years. Ok, so get over it.

George is a member here. He contributes. Couldn't you at least give him the respect of keeping your mouth shut? Should he have done the things you have pointed out? Probably not but we are all learning as we go...

I guarantee you that if I posted some of the problems that I have had with Pelican Parts, the same problems you guys are castigating AA for, I would not get 1/10th of the piling on you guys do here. Remember Pelican's Free Shipping deals? Ever purposely buy more from them to get the free shipping and then get charged two shipping charges because they came from two different warehouses and divided, your order doesn't qualify for free shipping? No way of telling when you are filling your virtual shopping cart. Think that is fair? Good business practice?

My point is that I can respect a man who works out his problem with the man he has the problem with. But this is just not fair. I would defend the Pelican too...

Ok. Fair enough on the buying and having problems.

But what about the other situations I mentioned.

On our own resource topics, things that we made, he posted his stuff for sale. Now cmon on how low is that.

How about the 914-6 vin swapping
or the 914-6 oil cooler on ebay that was a 911 cooler.

Brian,
I can't speak to that. I didn't read those threads and I was not aware of it. But this thread is not about that. This thread is about the guy not getting his fuzzy dash cover and thinking it wasn't fair when in fact it was absolutely consistent with the stated conditions of the sale. Look at the shit storm he caused! George did fuch with him a little by humorously declaring himself King and I doubt the guy was bright enough to catch the humor but hey... look at this mess??? George knew it was coming.

If I was a member vendor and I had something for sale and George or anyone jumped in and offered to sell the same or similar thing I would contact an admin and George or whoever and say hey! I would appreciate it if you would sell your own widget in your own thread. I'd bet he would graciously remove his post. Everyone forgets where they are on the forums once in a while. Some guy just told someone on the Classified forums that his 2.0 liter injectors weren't worth $450 because "used is used". That is out of line. I called him on it. If it were my FS ad, I would contact an admin... Approach him with respect though... "Hey asshole" seldom gets the desired result.

Ebay has measures in place if you think someone is committing fraud. I don't think those measures include attempting to destroy the persons business by calling him out on the internet.

The point is there are proper ways of handling things and none of them involve this kind of thead with one exception. Steve Stromberg was clearly trying to commit fraud. Put together enough people who are being cheated and you have to call them out. That is not the case here. George has been at the same address for 31 years. His inventory measures notwithstanding, that is a successful business. Any self proclaimed business expert who says he will not be in business much longer is clearly not what he or she claims to be. I don't care if you are a car guy or a CW. George will be in business until he retires or they carry his cold body out the front door. If he is smart he has an exit strategy already in mind. How is George supposed to defend himself if everytime someone gets a used screw with a slight blemish the guy starts a thread here and then everyone who ever knew anyone who had a problem with George brings it up AGAIN! Never mind that it took his parts picker 15 minutes to find and he only charges a freakin' buck for it. Given proper respect George might have responded to the original poster that the reason it was cancelled is because that was a condition of the sale but how about we have a group buy on fuzzy dash pads and if we can sell 20 of them I will give you the 20% off? Instead the guy goes off like AA is harboring Al Capone's entire gang as employees. Respect and due process goes a long way. Follow the right path and you are likely to get the right result.

I'm just saying, lets give George the same respect we would give other member vendors. I have received parts from people I respect that had studs broken loose that had to be rewelded. I didn't call them out and imply they were a crook. I didn't even mention it. It was easier to just reweld them.

He did it to multiple people at the same time. All different topics in the resource section.

It is what it is. It will never change and I'm sure these post will continue. You can go back to the beginning of these 914 sites and its the same old thing.

Sorry if I dragged this post on too long. I still find it unbelievable the things he does in his position.

What position?
He is not KING...hes just a guy who runs a small business.

So what position are you thinking that is so big, so important and so amazing that George needs to behave any different from Al Zim (ever talk to him online???) Wayne Dempsey (A 911 business that caters to profit of about 20 different models of cars) Little if any stock, drop ships most of it..

I could go on and on and on about all the business owners online.
None of them is a King, none of them are more than a business owner scraping out a living....Oh, he got a GT40..A, dont believe it...B, so what if he did...C, he dedicates all of his time to a small business and employs people who have families to feed...do you?

Rich

As I said, I didn't see it or read it but it sounds like he didn't see that forum for what it was intended. Plus, as I always tell my students, try and turn around and face yourself in any situation. What is George's point of view. Did he spend thousands having a perfect replica of the Porsche part made and buy hundreds of them only to have some guy make 30 of the same thing minus the perfection in his garage? Case in point, last I heard, George is having a mold made from an original M471 rocker detailed down to the 914 part number molded in. You have to admit that part is only surpassed in value by an original M471 rocker. Yet along come the guys making flared rockers in their barns. Do these parts compare with George's perfect replica of an M471 rocker? Not a chance. George should promote his own perfect replica in that same member vendor forum right next to the thread by the other guy. The right guy will know the difference. I know I am waiting for George to announce the M471 rockers are ready and I will pay more I'm sure. But I know I am getting the closest thing to original I can and that means something. No one else is doing that.

Let me put it this way. The original post was a guy claiming he had been ripped off because he didn't get his fuzzy dash board cover even though the terms of the sale were clear and his cancellation should have been expected given those terms. We have covered that. If my dog pisses on the dining room floor and I see her doing it I let out a yell that lets her know she is going to die and it will be now. If I step in her pee two hours after the fact, it does me no good to yell. Humans have a longer memory than dogs of course but for gosh sakes! Do you think George can remember every little incident out of the thousand sales he makes a week? This thread should never have happened but since it did we should be fair and stick to the point which was the sale and whether George and AA stuck to their own stated policy. Every other thing George has ever done to everyone should have been discussed with George when it happened. I half expect some guy who George beat up in grade school to pipe in when I hear these theads.

with Cone Dodger.

BTW; Does anyone else think it is hilarious that this thread initiated about a Fuzzy Dash Cover?

Are you sure this isn't a 1974 Chevy Impala thread? What? Were the fuzzy dice on back-order too!!!

Sorry, can't buy it. Somebody shits in the community well you call them on it. If you don't then you're letting every one who follows you suffer the same crap, and that's not cool. You got screwed by Pelican Rob, call them on it. Your problem is going to be that it's you and maybe a few other folks. With AA it's a LOT of people, and the proof of that is how varied but regular the "AA Sucks" threads are, on every kind of board, not just here. Talk to ten 914 owners and half have had bad experiences with AA.

AA hasn't failed in thirty years. Props. But their bad service has opened the door for and then strengthened competitors ever since. If George had operated his business any way other than "I am King, you are not, so shut up and worship me" then he could have been ten times as successful as he has been. And that, Rob, is the price he's paid for that attitude. The irony is that everyone wishes that they'd improve and be the resource that they have the potential to be. We all WANT them to be good.

Let me repeat, you buy from whoever you like. Super. Other people will buy from whoever they like. Done. You don't like "AA Sucks" threads then either don't read them or tell George to clean up his act. Anything else is unfortunately going to be using a broom to sweep back the tide.

Respect huh? You don't even have clue who I am, yet you have the the nerve to call me stupid? You cannot even seem to put a simple grasp on what my gripe was truly about. I DID try to resolve the situation with the company, and once again (like other times) was treated poorly as a customer. I absolutely did understand the stipulations of 'the sale'. Sale or no sale, same shit - different day.... weather it be a $60 part or $6000 - not the point. Are you blind, can you read? Do you or do you not see more and more people chiming in out of 'lurk' mode to tell thier not so positive stories? Respect George/AA? Respect is earned, in my book. Either you are related to the self proclaimed King or I need to start getting my stash from the same guy you do...

got my parts... 20% off... in good order and quickly.

thanks george..

For what its worth, I remember that George announced the rules VERY CLEARLY, and they were here printed IN ENGLISH.

If your part was not in stock, no order would happen, period.
If you know how this works in any environment, online or not, you CALL to verify that the part is in stock.
You do this during business hours.
If you are concerned, you call the next day to see that it was shipped.

If you are ok to pay full price retail, then dont bother putting in the extra effort to comply with the stated rules of the one day per year sale.
Its not like he has not done this before...its the same deal.
the sale lasts for one day.
Its only valid if he has it in the building.
How could you possibly think that ANY vendor (name one) that has an accurate record of every item the in building.
NAME ONE VENDOR...sears, Bj's wholesale....name one.
There is no vendor on this earth that knows what is in the building except on one day of the year...inventory day.
Why do you suppose that every business does an inventory once per year...hmmm just to check and see that they have a perfect record of everything in the building...nope.

This was really a simple sale.
the instructions were simple.
The only way to verify it would be to call.
Using only the online system and bitching online is not how it works.

Rich

Best thread ever!

break time!!!

And just as many or more who posted their support for AA.

Are you blind, can you read?
Andy

Nah, it's Ribeye, (BBQ'd over oak) Tequila Lime Shrimp, Asparagus, Garlic Mashed Potatoes and Salad tonight!

Some peoples children....

I ordered on the sale date, still needed a bunch o' bits for the resto.
Stuff arrives promptly in 5 days.

Hold onto you butts!!..there was a problem.
One items was incorrect (GASP!) instead of a L. part I received the R.
I left an email for Cust. Service and the next day was contacted by
phone. Expained the situation and arranged to return it for the
correct part. No drama.
Later that day I get another call on my mobile ...Its George.
Calling to personally apologize and check to see if Im in a pinch for time and would need expidited shipping (on him).

Hmmm.. customer service

Thanks George

When I was in retail, I had over 200,000 SKU's I was responsible for. When the once-a-year inventory rolled around, I was quite proud of the fact that my "variance" (industry term for the difference between what we had and what we were SUPPOSED to have) was measured in the THOUSANDTHS of a percentage point (BTW, a full two points was considered an acceptable variance to allow for "shrink" -- i.e., theft -- miscounts, etc.).

So, yes, you are technically correct -- I never knew EXACTLY what I had on hand at any given moment. But I sure knew a whole lot more than it appears the folks at AA do....and THAT'S what started this whole mess! Mike

You know, I agree with you, but that is just the thing... He is not KING, but he is the one that used this term in his response on this thread. I perceived it as quite arrogant. It is the problem with electronic communication that we don't get inflection and other attributes, he may have been joking, self deprecating, but it did not come across that way. It came across as arrogant, extremely arrogant. It is that attitude that combine with what apparently is a consistent customer service problem that gets people riled up.

AA is a privately owned company that can do as it wishes in terms of how it runs its business. It is only responsible to its shareholders, whomever they happen to be. I personally don't give a what they do.

At the same time, members of this and other virtual communities have options when they chose to spend their discretionary dollars.

I have no personal ax to grind with AA. My one and only experience however mirrored that of many others. So, as I tell my kids, "where there is smoke, there is fire"

If this was an isolated incident, so be it. But it appears not to be. As I read it, the original post was not so much about getting the 20% off, it was about the order confirmation being received, but not receiving the order. I think the issue is about better and more accurate communication to start with, and better customer "bedside" manners to follow.

Call the email anything you like so long as people receiving the email understand that the parts may or may not be in stock, and if they are not, we wont be calling you to tell you about it, since this appears to be their business model. I'm not taking offense at their business model, just suggesting they set their customers' expectation more accurately.

Nothing here is extremely complex or expensive to implement. It just takes an attitude that demonstrates to customers that you value their business as opposed to expecting their business because you crowned yourself "king" of their realm.

I'm not that much of a sensitive guy myself, but I had hair (that I no longer have) stand on my head when I read the "all 914s are mine and I'm just letting you use them" (or something of that sort) comment along the way in this thread. That type of arrogance just does not win points with me as a customer.

I don't wish AA anything but positive things and I certainly am not predicting their demise any time soon. If they have a corner on the NLA parts market, wonderful for them. But where there are choices, I suspect buyers will excercise those options.

I truly would prefer to support a vendor that invests in these cars, and it appears AA does that. At the same time, the free market and competition are a very positive thing. It tends to improve all vendors.

The whole thing with the GT 40... I saw that post and thought "wow, that was obnoxious!". Now, I don't begrudge him being able to purchase a nice car, nice home, airplane, helo, or yacht. Its the American dream. I think its great that he is able to do so, and I hope his garage is filled with similar rides.

I just think it may have come across as less offensive if he had said something to the effect of "I'm really excited to share with you my latest acquisition, the Ford GT. <add any car performance related stuff as needed>, But above all, I want to thank you for supporting our company and making all this possible." or something like it, rather than what came across as "nananana, I have one of these and you dont!"

Fact is some of the people on this board have that and more, and are much more demure.

To each his own. Spend your money where you wish.

In my case, it was not a "sale" issue. I think in this day and age, people have a certain expectation when they order stuff on line. I travel on business a whole bunch. When I make a plane reservation on line and receive an email confirmation, i expect a seat on that plane. You can be assured I'd be screaming and hollering if I showed up on the day of the flight to have someone say anything to the contrary.

I buy more than airplane tickets online. I travel about 180+ days a year, so I spend a lot of nights in hotels, miles in airplane seat and rental car seats, and much more. I can assure you that I don't find a need to call to confirm each and every order by phone once I've received a confirmation email.

I think a lot of this has to do with AA's communications. If this is not an order confirmation, it is merely a confirmation of the receipt of an order request, then treat it accordingly and say so in the email you send customers. " You think you ordered stuff, but this email just confirms we received the details of what you think you ordered. To confirm what we really will be shipping to you, please call us."

Set expectations correctly, then exceed them. A good customer service rule.

Notice, I am not speaking of prices here. I am the first to pay a premium for better service. This is not a 20% discount issue.

So a guy doesn't read the terms of the AA sale, it must be AA's fault not his.
This kicks off the biggest bitchfest on record.

Everyone swinging their dick and proclaiming they could/would do everything differently. Then the personal attacks start, and the we don't need him we have "collective knowledge" bullshit.

It was an inventory clearance sale, ever heard of that?

Not all retailers have the same business model.
For 914 parts Pelican's website is unsurpassed, but they have only the most commonly available parts for our cars, no depth.
George has more parts for 914's than any other single retailer. Good for us. But, like most other internet retailers, his website does not provide that Amazon.com kind of feedback that Pelican's does.

AA does a really good job of providing parts and information about our cars. Like anywhere else, sometimes things go wrong with orders. Talk to them and they will straighten it out. It is not the massive clusterf**k that many of you are claiming.

I use all the vendors, George is the only owner that regularly answers the phone and gets personally involved in customer calls. As the kids would say, he represents, I like that.

Hate something else.

You moaners have a lot of time on your hands! I like the catalog for reference, AA sent my one order as well as any other small company selling unusal, specialized, hard to find old car parts. You would all be farther ahead working on your teeners instead of gripping about the small stuff. Find something fun to do.

Michael McBride

Wow... No. Apparently I don't have a simple grasp on what your gripe is truly about. It has been demonstrated to you over and over by people who not only can read but actually did read the conditions of the sale. No product in stock - order cancelled.

Weather is something you check before you go out for a picnic, so I am going to assume you actually meant whether the part is $60 or $6000 right? I see lots of people chiming in that they don't trust AA or George. You are correct. I see more people saying they had and have no problem with AA and George.

As for your respect is earned comment, George has our respect - as a member of this forum he has the respect afforded by the rules of the forum. George was baiting you and the other people who love to trash him with the King comment. Read it over and over until you get it. It is in there. Subtle, but it should be within your grasp. He is saying in effect - yes, yes, yes, I am an asshole - but what he means is I know what is next. 17 pages of George is an asshole. You and your cohort took the bait and ran. George doesn't think he is king.

I am not related to George. George and I have spoken only once and that was probably five years ago. I don't do drugs and never have. A condition of my employment and that of everyone who works in my business is that we can be approached at any time and handed a sterile cup to urinate in.

If you want to come after me, better get a dictionary. Your Public Schools have failed you.

The short answer, if you are too angry to read this and it sounds like you kind of are, is that on post 10 of the thread announcing the sale George clarified when asked, that if the item was not in stock - the order would be cancelled. That was a condition of the sale. If you don't like the rules don't step on the playground. No fuzzy dash pads in stock - order cancelled. Game over. No bitching. Here we are at what? Page 8? Only 9 more pages of the same people calling George names to go!

Yes, the weight of expectation has created all the animosity within this thread.
From my perspective, it is all about the self righteous faulting George for his self-righteousness.

I didn't order anything at AA during the sale but one of my customers did. (actually at least two of my customers took advantage of the sale) I received $2k worth of parts on his behalf and there was a problem with one item.
I emailed George and it was taken care of promptly. Thank you George!

I think the issue was he ordered something online, got a confirmation. then later he got a record saying it wasnt in stock, and he could reorder the part at full price... I imagine he thought it was kinda shady and wasnt resolved right... but whatever



that pizza looks good, and so does Steve's meat description... which in my tipsy state sounds fantastic


and wow... look at this thread go

Ah Rob, that wasn't nice. Does that mean your private school education is better than mine? So I shouldn't correct your grammar occasionally because your private school education means it's perfect? That's silly. Calm down. We're all friends here, or should be.




That's correct, to a point, but you're omitting the very important fact of the order confirmation. An order confirmation is just what it says, a confirmation that your order has been accepted. At that price. If there was anything that would need to change, for example if AA didn't intend to ship, or ship at that price, whatever, then the solution is simple enough, AA would not have confirmed the order. But once AA accepted the order, as witnessed by their confirmation, there was an agreement in place, and that's a contract. I'm not making this up, as anyone with a business law class or any experience can confirm.

The entire reason for issuing order confirmations is to precisely avoid this kind of problem. Everyone has a chance to change their mind, not buy, not ship, change the price, whatever, UNTIL the contract is in place. Then once it's in place it needs to be honored. The concept is very simple, you do what you say you're going to do. If George wouldn't (or couldn't) honor that price then he should not have confirmed the order.

But the problem isn't about a five dollar difference, or fuzzy pads, it's about the problems of dealing with a badly run business. This isn't much different than my experience of ten years ago, when I was promised every week for four weeks in a row that my part was on the shelf and would be shipped the very next day. No big deal for George, he eventually shipped the product and was paid for it, but I was left hanging, car in the air, literally, because I believed what he said. Never again.

I'd also point out that EVERY vendor is discussed in these forums. We all know that Eric is super to deal with, because it's been discussed. Pelican may make mistakes, but I've never heard anyone say they didn't make good. Jake's customer service is second to none, and so on. It's good to know these things. It means that vendors who offer good service benefit from their good reputations. Likewise bad vendors are discussed, and why on earth would anyone expect that wouldn't happen, or is unfair? Discussion is legitimate.

To illustrate. Would you mention a bad experience with someone, say Stomberg, to your fellow 914 friends? Or are you suggesting you'd let them walk right into it without giving them a heads-up? If you would let them do that then you aren't a friend, because that's what friends are for. So maybe your experience with Stromberg was an isolated instance, meaning all your friends would chime in, saying their experiences with that vendor were all good. Then you'd have a true perspective. Or you could find out that everyone else had had similar bad experiences. But you'd never know unless it was discussed. And in fact Stromberg was found out exactly because his dealings were discussed. And that's the entire reason that people frequent these forums, to discuss and learn. Some people say bad things about vendors, other people say good things, then you go decide what you want to do. So what's the problem? But if you're advocating that we say only good things about vendors then you're being unrealistic and doing a disservice to everyone here.

And to hopefully put a cap on this whole thing could I suggest something that we could all agree on? An open suggestion to George: Dude, don't blame your employees, they're trying hard. But you, you could do better. And probably make more money while you're at it. Please.

Works for me, does that work for you? And even George should be in favor of making more money. So can we all be friends now?

So I wasn't speaking Greek after all! There are people who understand the point I was trying to make. I have dealt with many vendors here as well, and have had mostly all positive experiences. There have been several times in this forum where I have expressed positive feedback and recommended referral to people like Mark DiBernardi, Eric Shea, Chris Foley, Mark Engman, and Mike Leniak (just to name a few). As previously stated, this is a dicussion forum. Actively participate or just read and 'lurk'. Take from it (or give) whatever you want. Most of us here are capabe of cognizant thought process and are fairly objective. If it were an isolated experience for ME, I would have just bit my lip and let it go. It was not a single experience that compelled me to open up and be heard. It seems that there are far too many other similar experiences to just let it go by the wayside. What is the percent of negative feedback that still makes one not raise an eyebrow? Each and every one of you will do just what suits you regardless, I was just simply bringing some not so great business practice to the attention for those of you who do care to know and/or can relate.

As far as my spelling and grammer go... I am a poor speller, at best. I never claimed not to be. True colors do have a funny way of showing themselves...

Oh, and BTW... I just got my SHIPPING ConfIrmation from the fuzzy dash company I ended up buying from (at less than 1/2 the price). This is what a company who has it together 2nd email reply SHOULD look like. TAKE SOME NOTES GEORGE...




Your order has been shipped to you. PLEASE RETAIN THIS EMAIL‏
From: info@brandnewauto.com
Sent: Sun 3/01/09 7:15 AM
To: ************


1 800 964 3229

Info@BrandNewAuto.com


Thank you john for your recent order from BRAND NEW US LTD


Your item has been shipped to you and should be arriving shortly.
(Packages shipped by USPS do not offer online tracking.)

Invoice # ********
"DASHMAT Dash Cover 1970-76 PORSCHE 914"

Shipped FEDEX.GND on 02/27/09 Tracking # ***************

To track a FedEx package go to www.fedex.com
To track a UPS package go to www.ups.com
USPS packages do not have online tracking.

Your order is now on the way to you direct from Global Accessories.
LeBra products ship from Ohio, DashMat and Wolf covers ship from Texas.


Thank you for your order from us. We appreciate your patience with the order processing time from LeBra, Wolf and DashMat. Most orders are shipping within our advertised time but some orders have taken considerably longer and we do apologize for that.


Please check your order immediately upon receiving it. If the package has
been damaged in shipping please report it to the carrier within 48 hours.

PRODUCT RETURNS:
If you have received a defective product or the wrong product PLEASE
reply to this email to and an accurate description of the problem.
We will then email you the instructions for the return / exchange.
ALL defective / incorrect items must be reported to us within 30 days of
receipt of package.
ANY items returned without following our instructions WILL NOT be credited
or replaced. It is crucial that you follow our instructions.


1 800-964-3229 or 1 302-351-4419


info@brandnewauto.com

We greatly appreicate all positive feedback that we receive. Please be kind when you rate our shipping time, we know that it takes too long and we are trying to speed it up. Hopefully the price and the product will make up for the slow processing times from Global Accessories.

If for some reason you feel that we do not deserve a positive feedback it would be appreciated if you contacted us first to discuss it and see what we can do for you.


Thank you for your business!

Rob Farrell

BRAND NEW US LTD
info@brandnewauto.com
TOLL FREE 800 964 3229
DIRECT 1 302 351 4419
FAX 1 888-752-9145

www.BrandNewAuto.com
www.BrandNewCarParts.com




Copyright c 2005-2008 BRAND NEW US LTD. All Rights Reserved.

PRECISELY!!! I also took advantage of the AA 20% sale, and I even used my lowly public-school education to read all the terms and conditions. When I got my emailed order confirmation, I assumed that meant that everything I ordered was in stock (based on my web-ordering experience with many, many other companies in several industries). When I received no follow up email with tracking info, I began to wonder if there was a problem. But, as I was at a trade show most of the week, all of my order arrived before I had time to call and check on it.

Based on this thread -- and a couple of off-line conversations I've had with people who've been buying from AA for years -- I now know that, when ordering from AA, I need to confirm parts availability in advance, be prepared to call my CC company should there be any issues, and never, ever order anything that's time-sensitive.

THAT'S VALUABLE INFORMATION!!! Just as valuable as how to re-key my locks, what the targa top is coated with, and where to buy the master cylinder brake line bushings -- all things I've come to this site for as well. Mike

You keep mentioning this opinion that you hold as if it was a fact.
Its not.
Its your opinion of law, but it would not be the same as a judge.
As I mentioned before, an order confirmation is not a contract.
You neglected to read or respond to that previous post.
If you would like to quote case law, please do.
Re-stating your opinion as fact does not make it a fact.
You may view it (in your personal opinion) as an implied contract, but it is not in fact a contract.
If and when the CC is charged, there is an implied contract.
Even that implied contract can easily be reversed, legally, to negate the contract
A vendor has the right to decide.
From what I read, that part of the transaction never happened.
A CC was never charged, no money changed hands.

This would be viewed as a communication problem, it would never make it to court, nor would a judge agree to hear the case.

All by itself, an order confirmation is a step and a portion of an implied contract.
It is not a contract, it would never hold up as a contract, and it is not a valid point to keep trying to make an issue. It is not an issue.

NEXT

Everyone keeps getting all uptight about George saying that he was/is the King of 914's....
GET A SENSE OF HUMOR.
It was a joke, its a very sarcastic response.
I know George is just reading this and laughing...
For people to get all uptight about what he said is really funny.

Believe it or not, some people dont care what you think about them.
That is the humor about this. Might be hard to understand for some.
The fact that you (collectively) are getting all upset about George claiming King status is funny.

DB, you will never do business with George again...maybe there are two or more people here that agree with you, for whatever reason.
The majority DO NOT agree with you.
I see a few angry people/customers. feel free to shop somewhere else.
Feel free to provide your story in an effort to "expose" AA.

If you think that by telling your one bad experience with AA over and over and over and over again will drive him out of business, you might want to focus on better thoughts and other things in life.

Rich

What I find interesting is you've said you dealt with AA before and got the short end of the BS stick but for some reason you went back again for a dash cover. You've also qouted AA's prices as being better on at least one item then the other vendors you listed but yet you still say they mark up 150%. Maybe so, but I haven't found that to be true.

I think everyone gets your point, you won't deal with AA again. AA's rep has been dragged through the mud before and I don't doubt that some of it is valid.

It's unfortunate you had to have this experience but not sure what your motivation is other then stiring the shit pot . We've all read this stuff before, unfortunately for you you must not have seen any past George bashing threads. Its George's buisness and I suppose he'll operate the way he wants to. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy from him, just go somewhere else if you don't like how he does things. He's well aware some are unhappy with the customer service customers have received from AA. Fortunately I have been pretty satisfied so far, but this isn't about me.

The up side is you found what you were shopping for at a price that you like elsewhere. Install it and move on to driving that car.

Acceptance is a critical and necessary element of a contract and only the wording of the confirmation would tell us whether it constituted acceptance. I suspect the confirmation email was confirming that the order had been received but not necessarily accepted. If that is the case, then no contract has been made and this whole thread has been based on inadequate reading comprehension.

I've never ordered from George, because of the many bash threads, and I've been known to criticize his sloppy business practices based on evidence and observations presented here. However, in this case, he was very clear as to the terms of the sale. Without the exact wording of the confirmation message we're just flapping our gums......not that that's a bad thing.

10 pages!

When I was just out of high school and struggling to pay for school at the University of Minnesota I worked for a Porsche VW shop in Hopkins MN. The owner had two tractor-trailers sitting behind the shop and had constructed stairs going up to the rollup doors and installed lights. Inside was the collective gatherings of his years in the Porsche VW business. His inventory control was basically "Oh ya! I saw one of those the other day, let me go out and get it for you". There were no SKU, inventory was basically ordering stuff to fill empty shelves. My point in telling you all this is that there are lots of businesses in the world that run exactly this way. Those businesses generally have a personality while other businesses have a corporate image.

AA, HPH, Restoration Design, and lots of others I am forgetting right now at least partially run this way. Bins full of parts removed from salvaged cars, or in the case of Restoration Designs perhaps "lets see, someone ordered one of those and I made 10, I have sold a few but I should have some". The point being that as far as inventory control - their business would drive a business expert crazy. We have already had some of these experts chime in here and tell us how George would be out of business in very short order. Clearly, they didn't consider the culture. George and these other businesses make a very good living for their owner. They just don't fit the best business practice models that were pumped out in the 1980's by the plethora of MBA grads and schools.

AA is at least partially run with modern practices. They have a website. It is a frustrating outdated website but none the less it is online. The have a 1-800 number. They send out order confirmations. So they are at least flirting with modern business practices. But truth be told, if you go to AA you will find bins full of parts from salvaged cars, bins full of reproduction parts, and finally genuine Porsche parts. Getting modern was probably not a priority when new tech arrived because feeding the family was more important. Yes, I am sure it was harder work for George to run out to the bins to see if he had something rather than just check his inventory control system but my guess is George isn't afraid of a little hard work. This is where the problem comes from. Why spend many thousands so I don't have to run out to the bins?

What I see is a confluence of 1980's business practices with new millenium customer expectations. I am sure that when AA sends out an order confirmation to AA it means "we are letting you know you ordered this" while to some of you it means "we have a deal". There are plenty of businesses that run this way. I have even followed up on something I expected from Pelican only to find out they didn't have it and were not expecting it soon. My point is that many of you are ordering from AA and having expectations that your experience will be an exact mirror of Amazon.Com... It is kind of like the difference in meaning between what a man says and what a woman says when they say exactly the same words.

George will never know how many of the used little black plugs that go in the rear targa upholstery to cover the screws. Simply put, he has thousands of parts that are used and he cannot count them all. He did us all a favor by having a 20% off sale and his thanks is to have people bad mouth him because their order was cancelled - item not in stock.

Please, don't apply new mellinium expectations to mom/pop businesses. They cannot survive if you do and the loss to all of us in this community would be devastating. George is a contributing member here. He jumps in from time to time and answers questions and when he does I know he speaks with authority and expertise. I once had someone who totally hates AA tell me the first thing I should get was a copy of 700 Tech Tips.

I am sure that George is probably wondering why I am so passionately defending him and AA. Particularly since George and I have only had one conversation and it has been years since I ordered from AA... Consider this, what is next? Right now, Eric has the group buy brake pads thing going on. Fully 50% of the orders are sitting waiting for the other set of pads that is backordered. If I don't stand up and draw a line here - what happens when some newby lurker starts going after Eric? Who is next after him? The point is, bashing vendors - particularly member vendors should be off limits.

I hope that you guys are not going to continue to try and drag George screaming and kicking into modern business practice. I also hope George doesn't try too hard to accomodate that. Believe me, if AA had a SKU on every part, few of us could afford to buy from them.

If you don't like George leave him alone. If you had a bad experience buy somewhere else, you learned your lesson. But remember, when you order Catcher in the Rye from Amazon and instead you get Catchy uses for Rye in the Kitchen - you are unlikely to get a call from the owner of Amazon telling you he will make it right. The owner of Amazon is unlikely to drop by your book club and suggest great books you could read. George is quirky but at least some of us need him. Leave him alone.

Geez Rob. You can get arthritis typing like that!

Amen. Lets all just consider AA our backwoods Georgia based Graceland!

Hi Rob, I have DragonEZ... It's just like standing in front of grad students and lecturing. Wait... scratch that. At least the computer is listening and getting it!

I am afforded the right of my opinion and to express it by Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression in this country (and many others). This IS an open discussion forum, is it not? No two people will ever agree, without doubt. Expressing my opinions here (or anywhere else) does not constitute 'bashing' in and of itself. If it happens to be that more than one person agreee with the said subject matter, then WE are still FREE to discuss our opinions for, and against such said topic. Those of you that still are unable understand the point I was originally trying to make, and vehemently disagree - that too is your right to express. It is a discussion forum. When I said "pretentious assholes who are positive thier shit doesn't stink", that is my opinion - and I am certainly entitled to it. Just as Mr. Hussey is entitled to the opinion that he is the King of all 914's (joking or not, even though it did not sound like he was joking to me). Is he a wealth of information on the 914 Porsche? It certainly seem so. Too bad for me I guess that I am too stubborn to get over the bad taste in my mouth about how I am treated as a customer by him. Too bad for him that he does not seem to take responsibility (or give a shit) for customer satisfaction - IN MY OPINION.

EDIT: I think bashing is more of an attack on a personal level, rather than pointing out poor business practices. Like criticizing someone on spelling and grammer, for instance.

I dont think youll have to worry about if someone has a problem with a vendor on this board.

It will happened sooner or later but I'll guarantee they wont respond I am king of 914's, or that they will sell 914-6 vins with no car, or that they will infiltrate our resource section and take away our members business.

914-6 cooler??
914-6 with no vin but he can sell you a vin

I know there was a thread about AA invading our resource section but I cant find it.

You are not exactly right... Close but not quite. This site is international and so it is a bit hegemonic to imply that those rights extend to everywhere the site can be viewed. Being you are American it can be easily understood why you have this opinion. An example of this is the person who thinks it is possible to 'vote' for a king. Only an American would have that cultural perspective. That is not the way kings are chosen. It is more accurate to say that free speech rights extend to the actual owner of this site who graciously allows you to speak in spite of the fact that he apparently disagrees with you. As soon as he wanted he could shut off your rights and you would be speechless - so to speak. He can shut down this thread with a key stroke and believe me, your rights would not have been violated. He owns the site.

So, while I do agree you are intitled to your opinion - I wonder what it is. Can you tell us what your point is? It appears that you ordered something, got a confirmation that you ordered it, then discovered that your order was cancelled because the item was not in stock. Everything appears to have happened exactly as it was layed out in the post announcing the sale. And yet, having had it demonstrated over and over to you through 10 pages that AA did nothing wrong you still seem to think you have been violated. I find your reactions out of proportion to what has actually occured. Help me understand why AA has done something wrong. Please do it without restating the things you have already been proven wrong on. For instance an order confirmation is a confirmation that you ordered something. It is an opportunity for you to jump up and say "hey! I didn't order anything" or "hey! that is not what I ordered!" The actual contract saying you ordered this and we are sending it takes place when your check is accepted or your credit card is charged. What happened to you was completely within the parameters of what George said would happen when he announced the sale. So once again, without restating the things you have already said and been proven wrong about - what is your problem? I can almost hear the person at AA telling you that they were sorry but as per the terms of the sale your order was cancelled. Your reaction was, as evidenced by your reaction here so out of proportion to the reality of the situation the call taker probably offered to order the fuzzy dash cover at full price because clearly - you were going to die without your fuzzy dash cover. The call taker thought of this as good customer service because you so badly needed that fuzzy dash cover - you took it as an insult...

So help us... What did George and AA do to you that was so bad?

I think the problem was he ordered something online for the 20% discount. He got an confirmation (automated though). Then he doesnt get the part, and can buy the product at full price.. Seems kinda shady..

I guess the resolution is what has made him mad. Anyways

Yes, The rules I guess where that it has to be in stock.. Though companies, like AA with a outdated website, sometimes has inventory errors. I've order parts that said out of stock/backordered, and then it ended up being in stock, and vise versa. He took a risk, and it ended up voiding the rules.


I guess the issue here is that the end of the issue is the problem... But whatever. I have had no issues with AA before, or Pelican either.

Brian,

You are tenacious. I will give you that. Trust me - George was kidding. I have a guy running a mattress store down the street claiming to be the King of Matresses... What should we do? He doesn't really think he is king... George was being sarcastic... You seem like you should be able to get that... I think that you want to hang on to that as some evidence that George is a kook or something. It was nothing more than a sarcastic response to what he knew was coming.

I am not going to take the bait and get into a debate about the member vendor section or VIN switching. That isn't what this is about. You have restated that several times. We get it. You think George is a bad person. These things are not a part of this discussion.

Bottom line is this - You and AA/George are in direct competition as it regards one product. In academia we call this bias. Even if you were as patient and deliberative as a judge, you should not involve yourself in a derogatory attack on George because I for one, and I am sure others will think it is really about the Porsche panels that go along the back of the car... Because you and George make the same product - you have limited credibility... To be fair, neither does George if we were talking about you here.
If I own 1000 shares of Phizer how much credibility do I have in a discussion of the differences between Viagra and one of the other ED drugs? None. I have a direct financial advantage that results from my passionate defense of Viagra...

I don't get the "Shady" reference ...

Here's what went down (Obviously, YOU is not you Ben ):

- YOU knew that AA had a one day sale, 20% off everything in stock.
- YOU knew any items not in stock would not be part of the sale.
- YOU knew any orders for items not in stock would be ignored.
- YOU knew AA's website sucks, but you went there anyways instead of calling.

- You go to their website and find a fuzzy thingy that would be a good buy at 20% off.
- You order it online.
- You get a order confirmation in your Email (Because you just ordered something, duh!)
- You don't hear anything back from them, so you call.
- You're told the item is out of stock and thus your order was cancelled (As stated in the terms of the sales event).
- They tell you they can get the part for you, but it'll be full price.
- You're pissed because you didn't get your fuzzy thing and start a thread here complaining about "poor" customer service.


I just don't get it. AA did everything they said they would. You missed out on your part, they said they could get it to you if you really wanted it (full price as it wasn't part of the sale).

That's good customer service right there. I'm still not sure what you're complaining about.
Andy

I get that Ben, but as has been stated over and over - the rules were clear - he ordered something - he got a confirmation that he ordered something - his item was not in stock - his order was cancelled - he had an almost violent reaction out of proportion to the reality of the situation.

Let me put it this way - If my child cannot live without a continuous supply of oxygen and I am told the oxygen tanks are on backorder. Yes - days of passionate anquish are appropriate to the situation.

I cannot get my fuzzy dash cover - days of discourse and refusal to see that his expectations are wrong. Reaction out of proportion to the situation.

I don't want him to restate the obvious as you just did... I want him to tell us what is wrong. The obvious has been covered and refuted.

Cialis is way better! No headaches and it lasts up to 72 hours!
Andy

ohh... I agree... it was blown way out of proportion..

I see the possible side that hey... I have to now buy this at full price... but other than that.. the rules were there..

See thats the thing. I dont care that AA has the same product as I do. Obviously AA does as he called it a waste of my time. I have even talk to the guy thats making the panels for AA. We talked about how we both constructed ours.
I dont sell anywhere near the quanity AA sells. But if I can sell a couple here or there and keep my hobby alive then great. I dont consider him competition or the other guys that make these.
If someone tells you to stop doing what your doing as its a waste of your time wouldnt that get you riled up. Especially someone with his business practices.

Wow what a discussion. I bet George hasn't bothered to read 75% of it. Does he care? Maybe a little but what probably does matter to him is that he probably has tried hard to make a good living at what he likes and he thinks he knows a lot more than most about porsche. He also knows he has helped a lot of people and has given them a good product for the dollar they spent.
He also knows he can't please everyone every time and it's usually the little things that cause the most pain. Or maybe he has found out that the alligators bite way worse than the nats.
He may also think he needs to do it all himself that no one else can do some parts of his business.
I've talked to George a few times and he was always courteous and helpful.
NCR had inventory control practices in place for retailers in the 60's. No they were not computers but they worked. They also cost a lot to manage. Pcs changed everything. IBM had a really nice word processor that looked like a big pc but it would only do word processing. Along comes the pc that would do it all. George could install a good computer system but he probably thinks the irs could cause him a lot of grief if he used it. He would also have to trust some salesman that sells computer hardware and software and may not know any he trusts. What he may not realize is that he could be playing with his cars and only need about two hours each evening to check on the co. inventory, sales, expenses, hours worked and so forth. So he spends 1/2 or all of what the gt cost. Two years later he can buy another one when business booms and probably cut his work hours in half. Yeah, yeah it will need updates so what, we only have so much time here to work, make some money and spend it playing. All he needs to do is find a comparable business model and see what system works best for the buck and do it. With the economy the way it is this might be a good time to listen to some sales reps that might be struggling and check out their happy customers.
I really don't know if I will ever have another porsche but I know we can use George and his company to help us and the ones to come on their toys.

Hell , I'd like to have tires made out of George - he takes a licken and keeps on ticken --hat's off to him!!!

jaxdream

Ben, we all view the world through a pair of glasses that are shaped by our experiences, what we study and learn, the culture we grow up in... When two people look at a situation they often see it completely differently.

When Mr. 5 called AA and was told his order was cancelled his reaction was probably very similar to what he has given us here. When the AA call guy said I can order one for you at the regular price he probably saw it as good customer service. After all, this fuzzy dash cover was obviously of very great importance to this customer. Mr. 5 though, apparently thought that offering to order the out of stock fuzzy dash cover was as bad an insult as calling his mother a ho.

You see they both have their point of view and to each of them they are right.

My point is that most reasonable people can see that George and AA were in the right. Mr. 5 seems like the kind of guy who orders a burger to go with no pickles and when he discovers the pickles when he gets home he drives the 5 miles back and castigates the poor burger joint manager. It isn't enough that the burger joint makes him a new burger - he wants reimbursement for the gas and time it took him to come back. Mr. 5 - Just take the damned pickles off and eat it!

As it is now, people will be refering to fuzzy dash covers as analogy for cannot-be-satisfied-no-matter-what here forever...

Brian, I'm genuinely curious - do you actually agree with the argument made by the starter of this topic? Or is this merely a convenient opportunity for you to remind people how much you dislike George and his business practices?

johnnie5, seriously, please clear something up for me here. It seems your entire argument is based on the fact that you received an order confirmation from AA. How do you come to conclusion that an email confirming that AA's website received your order (and please realize, that's what that email is) somehow supersedes the written rules of the sale?

You've invented this, and you're bashing George and AA as a result. You're attacking his character, based on your misunderstanding or unwillingness to accept the terms of the sale. That's why we (scratch that, "I") am so incredulous as I read your posts.

I think that everyone here, save one person as far as I can tell, is simply at a loss for how you think that makes sense. Rich challenged the notion that the confirmation email is, by law, a contract. I for one am still waiting for your response.