Why has it taken so long for Boxsters to be made into ax cars? They have been around for a long time and thre are plenty of them in junk yards by now?

most folks thought them to be too heavy and underpowered....

Just took a while before us 914 guys got our hands on them. Price points didnt come into line until about 2 years ago. Truly the shocked look I get from regular boxster owners is still priceless. "Why did you do that to your car" "Was it a wreck" are first comments I hear from traditional boxster folk. I think my favorite was when somone called in a cone on codriver at a ggr event. " that miata race car hit a cone"

Still dont see any e mod, XP or FP 914's signed up for solo Nats yet? I do see a Boxster however!

I can tell you about three guys (Bill, Randal and Dan) that drove a "SPEC" boxster at an GGR autoX many years ago, right after it was built to class and brought out to race, that were pleasantly surprised about performance.

Of course this was a heavy weight, what something like 2600lbs or thereabouts?

Still was good enough for a 5th and 6th overall that day on track tires.

Guess we were ahead of our time! Real pioneers! Wow, I'm so impressed with myself.

Hey Randal,

As a point of interest and NOT to pick a fight, I was surprised the hear the Boxster weighs in at 2600 lbs. That is what my V8 conversion weighs: ready for the track with 70 lbs of rollcage. So your info made my day, as I thought my car was heavy.

However, the Boxster has superior suspension geometry, a lower CG and more gears (I run a 930 4-spd).

Regardless, if we are happy with the toy we have, it's all good.

Best,
Terry

The spec cars have to weigh 2650lb with driver if memory serves so they are actually not too heavy. However, it you strip one completely, you can get one down to around 2000lb but then they start to look like this.
Click to view attachment

The first Spec. Boxster I helped build was a real eye opener. When we got everything stripped off the car Bill Pickering's front yard was just about completely covered with parts. A lot of weight was removed before the cage was put in and other safety bits added. I'll bet there is a picture on the club site of that day.

Here is the link: http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?show...2696&st=260

The entire build is outlined within the above link. The documentation provided is yet another great testament to Bill Pickering and his open and non-secretive approach to helping others in racing. And his approach worked well as many others followed into the Spec Boxster arena.

Spec cars were definitely first iteration but still not much more than a slightly stripped down street car on street going PSS 9 coilovers. And not too many secrets to reveal with a spec car. Whole intent of spec cars are to have easy to attain stockish race car that all share very similar development. That's a great thing if one is into racing heavier street car on dot tires on the track. Good replacement for 944 spec series and it certainly has it's place but I want to see more real boxster based race cars.

My car is going to extremes that spec series really can't allow under their almost showroom stock series. The lack of true boxster race car development has left a big hole in porsche family. There are some of us moving forward with true race car focus. For example true lightweight racing brakes with proper brake bias for a race car, aluminum steering columns, quick ratio steering racks, electric accesories, racing alternators, true racing flywheel and clutch, monoball suspensions optimized for race slicks, custom made fuel tanks, race focused bodywork and aero, racing wheels with proper offsets, true racing dampers, custom gears, LSD,s racing radiators and lines, race heads, intakes, etc. Plenty to share soon enough however unlike spec builds there is some true investment in prototyping new parts. I'm not a principle in this new venture but my car is a test bed for a few of these ideas.

I have to revise my weight number down. We haven't touched the chassis sheet metal at all other than windshield delete and the steel doors and fenders are still being utlized. Car without sheet metal mods can easily hit 1900 range maybe 1800. A lightweight road racing car can easily hit 1900 with CF top and lexan windshield. A modified car with typical partial tube frame front and rear trunk could break into 1700 range. I think we will see some lightweight fast boxster race cars starting to emerge this next year.

I don't profess to be a race saint. Just an enthusiast excited about new developments around this truly neglected platform.

I still like the Esslinger engines.

I wonder how much of a nose bleed it would be to mate one to good transmission?

Guess they get crazy power out of the turbo charged configurations.

Got to go down to Babe's muffler (Mountain View) and talk to the man again.

I love their stuff. Those 2.3 ford motors in base form are sImilar motor to my 2.3 mazda motor - I can attest to huge power that can come from these things when they put a blower on them. Pretty sure a turbo Ford motor can go upwards of 500 to 600 HP before becoming a ticking time bomb. They mate those to VW trannies in the off road world. No reason it couldnt be done affordably on a 914. There is a beautiful D mod car done in So cal that uses a wicked little Ford Cosworth motor.

Now youre talking credible E mod power! The v8 and rotory british sports cars have acceleration that would glue your eyeballs to the back of your skull. Watching the V8 E mod car was amazing. He accelerates even quicker than the Turbo Rotary car! Truly in P Car AX world we have nothing that even comes close to those two cars. It would be cool to see something developed in the 914 world that comes close to their power to weight. But it would take huge dollars and tires to do that.

To give you a sense of times of those fast E mod cars. I can consistently hold Hamilton car to about 1 second in my Boxster. Those SCCA E Mod cars put 5 to 10 seconds on my Boxster. They were running down A mod car times at Marina a couple weekends ago! A mods were running 34 and they were at 35! Just so you know why I'm so skeptical that a fairly production based 914 could compete in E mod effectively at a national level. Just dont see it. It will take BIG dollars to build a national class E Mod 914. Nothing at scale we have seen anyone in our midst undertake.

The point is that it wouldn't take huge dollars to pull off the project.

The local guys that build midgets/engines here could provide a good used motor. The trick is mating one to a 915 or 930 transmission, i.e., something that wouldn't break the bank.

Will provide the dollars shortly.

BTW even without turbo charging the engines put out 350hp and operate between 6.5 and 9.5K.

And that is 2.5 liters/

Just saying you are going to need more than 350 peaky HP for a National level E Mod 914. You would need to put a blower on it if you wanted to run with the big boys in SCCA at big events. And your talking limited reliability with full boogie 9500 RPM ford motor that makes that much power NA.

I'd opt for lower displacement and a blower if AX is the focus.

Still would be fast fun project regardless.

The reason an Esslinger engine is a good starting point is that it's a purpose built racing engine. 350HP is literally de-tuned on one of these 2.5's. When you get everything working you can easily add power given the wide range of parts available for this venue.

Just go check out the prices for racing "stuff" at any of the sprint car venues and you get what I mean.

Oh yea, I'd take a 914 chassis for e mod anytime over a sprite.

And if you prefer something other than a 914 do it with a 1800lb(*) Boxster.

We figured out a long time ago that Boxsters handle, so HP with modern a suspension would be tough to beat.

The sprite e mod car's I've seen are simply point to point rockets. Get something out there that handles and you could eat their lunch.



(*) My guess an Esslinger weighs less than a boxster engine.

I wouldnt consider a Boxster for E mod just as I wouldnt consider a 914. Boxster/Cayman is happy in FP or BSP classes with SCCA.

You have to look closely at how the Sprites are setup to appreciate their effeciency. They are far more than just point and shoot cars, And their narrow track does put them at an advantage in AX over 914. The thought that 914 mid engine layout with old independent suspension is superior in productiion form is a little off base when looking at national level E mod car development. A production chassis 914 is going to have rear weight bias issues as well. Using Sprite platform for AX is brilliant. And I suspect if you look at most important part of the car - front suspension that it rivals what a 914 has. As I have indicated you would have to dump huge money into a 914 and push Mod class rules to ragged edge to make the car competive in that class. You would be charting unkown waters in chassis setup as well which is never cheap.

It would be fun to see you develop a class winning E mod 914 however I am just a realist. I just cant imagine investing that kind of money to go after AX title. Those emod guys are deadly serious about AX. At least in the non-X Prepared classes the craziness on $$$ spend is limited. I'm not the only person with that opinion. Majority of SCCA prepared class guys look at XP and Mod classes and say good luck! And most of them have far more SCCA car development than you, JP and me combined.

Those Sprite guys might be back up in August at Marina for AAS event. You should go run your car "as is" against them just to see how far that superior handling gets you.

Your car is very fast for casual local and marquee club autocrosser but it wont come close to national level SCCA Mod cars. Those guys are out of your league currently and it would take some large cash and some very focused development work from somone who knows this class to get your car to that level. Then you have to drive at that level as well. Just would hate to see you make investments in the car thinking it would be competitive in SCCA E Mod and be disapointed.

But again I still think 222 is one of the cooler 914 AX cars around. It looks like a hoot to drive. Not taking away from what you have accomplished I just dont think competitive E mod 914 can be accomplished on a reasonable budget. I'd love to be proven wrong but JP tried for years without success. Suspect you'd be going down same path. Again I think sometimes its easy to confuse TTOD at a local AX with competitive car at national event where national level cars are running. We dont have many E mod cars in our region so you dont have much context.

Everyone has an opinion and you're welcome to yours.

E mod has morphed into a dollar game. Bring big dollars and you can compete.

If we threw as much money into a 914 E Mod as the sprite boys we'd have a competitive car.

Saying that the 914 platform wouldn't work or be as competitive as a sprite is simply incorrect.

And also please drop the reasonable budget BS as any race car with championship caliber parts is going to be expensive. There is no other way, unless you have sponsors that will pay your way.

And if you have sponsors I suggest you say so and start marketing appropriately, as currently your marketing positioning is non existent.

Lol! Sponsors? I wish! Yeah I'm the under cover marketing wing of secretive boxster race shop. I leave that marketing stuff to racing professionals. I think Evan who painting car with rattle cans today might get a chuckle from the sponsorship notion. Nope I'm just an amature Enthusiast. Its almost as good as somone on a chinese propaganda you tube video accused me of being wit CIA when I left a comment in Chinese saying what a joke it was. I won't rule sponsorship out however if you know of anyone.

Can't wait to see that $100k 914 emod. I suspect this more pipedream than reality but can't wait for full disclosure build !

And some peoples opinions are grounded in reality and true understanding of cars in the class. Others might just be influeced by level of investment both financial and emotional in a given platform. But remember I'm not making claim that I can build a car that can beat the standing E mod national champion?

I'll put my bets on the sprites for now.

As usual your facts are wrong, or should I say yet again. Man this is making me tired!

This posting was about what could be done to run with the big boys in Emod, no "claim" that I was going to do it.

In reality I'm just a humble guy that would like to get his race car back out there and running.

I know Grant, you're just the same, except for the humble bit, but never mind it's just a generation gap thing. We were taught to downplay success and to support other people regardless if they won or lost. It's called class and sportsmanship which isn't on your agenda.

BTW I have no doubt that the sprite boys put tons of money in their cars. Maybe $100K or maybe more, but the point is they brought boatloads of money and got a new generation of car.

I'll bet if JP had my car and a small budget he could build a car that could easily run with the spits. I have no doubt about it.

One of these days 222 will live again.

Brit is looking at a HP infusion for the shitbox....XP or E Mod will be the target.
Running against Tunnell at Wendover gave a good look at what is needed.
Grant has FP sewed up so that's out..

Grant has FP sewed up.

Um, yea sure. I bet John Jackson and and John Thomas will have something to say about Boxsters in FP.

Good luck to Evan, You got the skillz to get it done.

JP do you recall about a year ago or so when Grant was bashing the SCCA Axers as being so full of them selfs they can't see straight?

Grant howz the deep end of the pool looking to ya now?

Are y'all going to the packwood tour???

Shit box and more power. WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah, I remember......but Grant prolly doesn't.

Grant & Evan won't go to Packwood. There's a quick 914 (but uncompetitive ) entered in FP that would whip them like a dog in the street. On a regular AX course they'd get whipped by 3-5 sec per day.....but they are used to that.

Brit is entered. I've retired.

Man some of you are truly mean spirited. You guys appear to be projecting more of your approach to competition than how I view competition in AX. I love it when you attribute comments to me I have never said. Let me know when I start bragging about my AX driving skills. Please also slap me if I ever post my own self promoting videos of my TTOD runs at small local events. Hasnt happened and all I can determine is that some of you just dont like the fact I call you on faulty thinking especially on this 914 E mod topic. JP just to clear the air. I have never said my Boxster is a FP nationals winning car. I have said we are working hard on the car and hope to do well but we are terribly outgunned power wise. Just as the 914's are in that class. Dang I hope a $100K 285 hp FP 914 with a nationals winning driver could beat my car! Not sure where JP got idea that my car in its current state of development would beat a national class FP car? Again confusion reins in the great NW. Thats a direct quote youre welcome to use. But really have to wonder about certain people's motivations to paint me as unsportsman like competitor as it just isnt my approach.

It was fun to tease Brit and JP when the Boxster beat them in SD National Tour. But I dont consider that bragging its just fun payback after JP's 5 year stint of snarky you dont know crap comments. You know that humble supportive tone that Randal speaks of so fondly. I drove terribly there so dont think I ever claimed to be the second coming of AX savior? Again you guys have a great inner fantasy world that I just cant seem to keep up with at times. You tend to spin up all sorts of things I have never said. But hell driving and owning a 914 takes lots of self delusional skills so I see where you get it! Owning or not owning a 914 and not driving it for years and projecting what the car will do even goes to higher levels of crazy in my opinion but its still all good.

Its all a great distraction from the key point here. That building a nationally competitive E Mod 914 would not be an easy undertaking and likely not result in top car unless you were willing to spend huge dollars. Now again I know this is all fantasy so feel free to put a F1 motor in the car. Randals proposal of driopping a peaky ford motor into his existing car wouldnt make it a Nationals winning car. It would make it a fast local AX car. Just as Brits car wont be a comtitive E mod car just by dropping more HP in. As I see it Brits got some problems running prepared at National level given the cars orignal prep for E mod. Guess he could weld bits back in place. Again really e mod why? Not sure what thinking was there.

Lets get back on topic of SCCA E Mod 914. Let me see how you would build a car spec sheet with spring rates etc with pricing that can compete with the car below? Please also include tires and widths from tire end to tire end you hope to accomplish with this beastly high HP 914. Please project corner weights too. You know, in that full disclosure friendly manner you talk about.

To remind you here is the car you would be chasing. The car that Randal and JP call "point and shoot" that I witnessed turning just as well as mid engine A mod cars. LOL! The driver is no slouch either. I know JP and Randal think they could build a car to beat him I'm just not so bold to make that proclamation. Guess its just my younger generation of not being so full of myself that I start believing my own BS. SOrry to try to ground you in reality again and no offense but I suspect niether of you have expereince or background to build a car that could beat a semi tubeframe Emod car developed to this level. SO fantasy is about as far as your going to get here.

Here you go:

Jeff K

Solo 2 National Championships:
- 2006 BP Mazda RX-7
- 2007 EM '58 3ROTOR Sprite
- 2008 EM 2008 KFR Turbo Sprite
- 2009 EM 2008 KFR Turbo Sprite

Pro Solo National Championships:
- 2007 M1 (EM) '58 3ROTOR Sprite
- 2008 M1 (EM) 2008 KFR Turbo Sprite
- 2009 M1 (EM) 2008 KFR Turbo Sprite



Car info

1958 Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite
Weight: 1810 (with driver and 120 pounds of Ballast)
Width: 64.5 inches
Wheelbase: 80 inches
Power: 370 HP and 300 TQ to the Wheels at
16 PSI of Boost

Motor:

- 13Brew (2 rotor turbo out of a 3rd gen RX-7)
- 9.7 high compression Super Lightweight rotors
- Racing Beat Street port
- Ceramic Apex seals
- GT30R turbo
- Tial 52mm wastegate
- Motec boost controller
- Tial BOV
- 7parts Stainless Manifold
- Coast Fab. 3" Race Exhaust
- Motor built by Jim Mederer of Racing Beat
- Extreme Turbo Systems Intercooler
- Racing Beat Aluminum side housings

Drivetrain:

- Extreme Duty ACT Clutch (6 puck unsprung)
- Jerico 4spd Road Racing Gearbox from Taylor
Race Engineering
- Custom CV shaft Driveshaft
- 1st Gen RX-7 solid axles rear end modified by
Speedway Engineering (turning into full floater
rear end)
- Custom Moore Performance Axles
- Aluminum midplate engine mounts

Ignition/Fuel/Engine Management:

- Stack Dash Display
- Motec M2R Engine Management System
- (4) LS2 coils
- Aeromotive A1000 Fuel Pump and Fuel
Pressure Regulator
- Yaw Power ID2000 2000cc fuel injectors (x4)
- Tuned by Danzio Performance

*Suspension:

- Wilwood Brakes
- Tilton 3 Pedal floor mounted set up
- Carbo Tech Panther Plus Brake Pads
- Penskey Triple Adjustable Shocks build by Guy
Ankeny of ARE
- 2 1/4" Hyperco springs
- Bogart 3 piece wheels 13 x 10 front and
13x14 rear
- Goodyear Slicks 20x9.5x13 (Front)
23.5x13x13 (Back)
- 7parts tubular adjustable front swaybar


Misc:

- 7parts Carbon Fiber Front and rear Body 1/2's
- 7parts Designed and Built Semi-Tube Frame Chassis
- 7parts Carbon Fiber Rear Spoiler

*note he doesnt disclose what his front suspension is. I have seen the bolt in racing suspensions for these cars and it will make a 914 guy cry.

And Jeff has a huge amount of time and money invested in that project. Not to mention that the only similarities that car has to an original sprite is the overall shape. Even dimensionally, the car isn't the same. I believe they had sectioned and expanded a part of the front of the car to make room for the 3-rotor.

E-Mod is cubic dollars. The only thing that's required to still be there from the original car is the floorpan from bulkhead to bulkhead. NOTHING else is required.

Anyone remember Steve Tamandli's car? It was basically a Formula Atlantic chassis, powered by an aluminum V8, under a one-piece fiber glass skin that looked like a Fiero.

Or the D-Mod rotuses? They were practically tubeframe race cars that had the fiberglass sheet that was the floor of a Europa laid down onto the tube frame.

I have to agree on one point for sure. A podium placing E-Mod 914 is quite likely not going to Porsche powered.

-Josh2

I will tell you the DSP build is far more interesting to most and realistic. Blake seems to be on to something with his build that is exciting and will likely benefit average 914 AX guy or gal far more than this fantasy talk. Blake also impresses me as somone who will actually go to nationals rather than just talking about how good his car is and how terrible the Boxster is. Blah blah blah.

Once you get to e mod you are not talking about a true marquee car any more. Its a custom built semi tube frame racer. Thats why I like prepared and SP classes. Your forced to use orginal chassis without making signficant mods to it and you have to stay with the engines available in the series. Of course XP allows you to grab differnt motors and its less intersting to me. I like maximizing production car not building a custom race car that loses much of its inherint factory attributes. Plus its cheaper! That was part of my motivation to get out of my 914 as when I started to look at XP rules I realized there was no way the car would be competitive without huge cash infusions.

If I were to screw around in Mod class it would probably be in an A mod car. Those are far more intersting to me than going half way in the other mod classes or XP. Although I have to say the Zust XP Lotus is damn well executed car using much of the original configrations and general engine design. That car really hasnt lost much of its Lotusness.

Not a proposal, just a statement that I liked the purpose built race engine and (was) hoping to get a few people like JP to respond on the feasibility of using one.

Who knows, maybe a turbo Subi would make more sense.

And for the record your opinion about whether anything built "locally" would or would not be a nationals winning car carries zero credibility. There has been more than one "local" driver from the West winning nationals at SCCA.

Please do your homework before making irrational statements.

And:

Now that is funny!

Talked to the local Esslinger expert today. A 2.5 liter engine would probably be close $15,000 used (350hp) and a turbo would likely add $10,000 before you got done.

The Rising Sun option definately looks like a better approach, especially understanding all the adapters out there already.

My guess is that JP already reached this conclusion.

There you go twisting my words again. When did I ever say anything about a local car not being competitive? What I did say is that your assumptions related to a stockish chassis 914 with a Ford race motor stuff in it beating a very well developed E mod car is just a bit off base and your assumptions of what a Sprite is in E mod are not well informed. Its sort of funny when you and JP called that Sprite "a point and shoot car" assuming it was just a Sprite under Carbon fiber body panels. Guess you didnt realize it was semi tubeframe car with custom full floating rear end and wicked front suspension. Car also has all weight located inboard of the wheels including radiator mounted in center of the car.

Let me also highlight that I have always had good things to say about your 914 and have complemented you often on the build when in turn you have disparaged me and my projects. Have to wonder about the politics of that especially when you have a big fancy web page with sponsors and I dont chose to go sponsorship route? Not that I care too much but just sort of disappointed in you. I know your better than this.

I truly dont have any ill will towards you and have always liked your thorough approach to your build on 222, but I cant ignore the engineer in my head that says we are very unlikely to ever see a nationally competitive E Mod 914. Your car is fast for a marquee club car and its probably fast enough to win PCA parade. Thats a great accomplishment in its self. But dont fool yourself a unibody chassis 914 wouldnt be a competitive E mod car at a national level even with a fast motor installed.

I think JP has bred some fun hype about 914's being competitive E mod or XP cars. unfortunately I just dont see it being realistic on any focused budget under $50K Sorry if that rubs people the wrong way but I just call a spade a spade. I do think if anyone is capable of building a fast XP 914 it would be Brit. I will remind all that I was the guy long ago that said 2.0 Turbo Subi XP 914 was way to go if you wanted to have a chance in that class. But thats when JP said his 230 hp motor was more than powerful enough and he just needed to work on getting power to the ground. Guess we will see if Brit goes that route. If it makes you feel better I dont think a Boxster could be competitive in those classes either.

You know whats really sad? I dont think Boxster is going to be a national winning prepared car even in FP. At least on my unsponsored budget. I think more likely fast and affordable FP car would be a MR2 turbo. Ouch I said it. But then I am a realist. I'm just glad there are dreamers like you and JP. You guys keep things interesting.

Honestly and humbly I'm looking seriously at C Stock 370z for next year. I feel very comfortable with those cars and I think I could setup a fairly competitive C Stock Z. We will see how they do this year and hopefully they wont get booted from the class. Looks like a few people agree with me on that car being the ticket. Im just wondering if the 7 speed auto might be competitive?

As discussed 2.5 turbo would be too much displacement in the class. Need to be around 1.8 to 2.0 if you are going forced induction in XP

The 1.8 and 2.0 VW/Audi motors might be another bet. Or even GM 2.0 turbo Ecotech.

What do you mean by "competitive", Grant?
A simple question that should have a simple answer.

Yes, Tunnell hit me over the head with HP. Were I still "in the game", there are only 2 motors I would seriously consider.

Which motors / transmission combinations would you consider JP?

Its a simple calculation in my book. If you dont have HP and torque to weight of your competition your chances of winning a national level event are limited. And you have to have that power to weight parity across the entire rev range. This is why turbos do so well in AX.

I also think in lighter classes that mid engine sometimes can be a handicap more than a help. Its an ignored problem by many. I'm really working on tryiing to keep weight where I need it in the front. I think many forget that most important part of a turn is early exit. In a mid engine car you are transfering weight to the back. Great for rear wheel traction but you are making fronts very light at this point. A car with rear weight bias is not the best at this point. On the track you have room to work around these physics. In AX its a much tougher issue to overcome because AX places a premium on precision.

There are only 2 that I can think of that offer the needed oomph and the low CG of the pancake motor. The Subie & the twin rotor Mazda. Of the 2, I'm thinkin' the Subie offers more torque down lower. Both offer less weight than the 9eleben motor. A fairly conservative 300-350 hp at the wheels in the 914 chassis ought to do the trick in either E Mod or XP *should * put one on the tail of the top dogs in either class.

With 50-100 lb weight loss from the Subie (a WAG as no one can tell us) set up the current car weight of 1700 would drop to aound 1600 without driver
for E Mod which puts it right at minimum weight. Ballasting would be needed to run XP....just a bit added for a TT 2.0L....I hate ballast.

I'd also find out if the 901 without using the cantilevered 1st gear will hold up behind it. To the best of my knowledge, no one has gone there and there's only one way to find out.

When leaving a PCA AX a month back, (the Alpha culb was running a DE) I noticed a totaled out gen 3 RX7 that had gone into the wall an hour of so ealier.......humm, there's a motor (said the vulture in me)....but I didn't stop.

An RX7 had gone into the wall at an AX? Wow.

350HP at the wheels in a 1600lb 914 would definately be interesting.

[quote name='Randal' date='Jul 17 2010, 08:43 AM' post='1344705']


When leaving a PCA AX a month back, (the Alpha culb was running a DE) I noticed a totaled out gen 3 RX7 that had gone into the wall an hour of so ealier.......humm, there's a motor (said the vulture in me)....but I didn't stop.
[/quote]


An RX7 had gone into the wall at an AX? Wow.

350HP at the wheels in a 1600lb 914 would definately be interesting.
[/quote]

Alpha club DE. Carnage is common at DEs, the heavy competition does it, I guess. The meat wagon hauled off the driver.

[quote name='J P Stein' date='Jul 17 2010, 08:59 AM' post='1344711']
[quote name='Randal' date='Jul 17 2010, 08:43 AM' post='1344705']


When leaving a PCA AX a month back, (the Alpha culb was running a DE) I noticed a totaled out gen 3 RX7 that had gone into the wall an hour of so ealier.......humm, there's a motor (said the vulture in me)....but I didn't stop.
[/quote]


An RX7 had gone into the wall at an AX? Wow.

350HP at the wheels in a 1600lb 914 would definately be interesting.
[/quote]

Alpha club DE. Carnage is common at DEs, the heavy competition does it, I guess. The meat wagon hauled off the driver.
[/quote]


OK I get it.

Never good seeing a driver being hauled to the hospital.

I was really hoping Porsche would introduce turbo 4 in a baby boxster. It would give us a real option for AX if they did. But knowing Porsche they would likely design in performance hindering elements to assure boy tuners were not grabbing 500 hp and making cars faster than flagship 911 line.

But for now the Mazda rotary and subie motors are well accepted xp and mod car powerplants. Just a sour pill to swallow for us p car guys. Cosworth makes some very nice subie long blocks. As usual bring lots of cash.

I am still with you JP. Like you say look at the times of the D Mod vs the E Mod boys. HP isn't the issue, i.e., you got to think like Colin Chapman and bring the best car, all around, to the match.

After talking with the Avon guys in the UK I beieve they really do have great tire combinations to maximize grip in many different situations.

But, like always, it would help to have a tire sponsor, otherwise you just aren't maximizing your potential.

I can't imaging how great it would be to running on new tires all the time.

The trick with a turbo motor is to get the boost to come down low.
I drove a 944T for a fella that need a tire warmer a bit ago. The difference between the boost arrival between it and Mr.2 was revealing. Mr.2's boost comes in around 2500 rpms...not all, but it builds quickly from there. The 944 was much later....3500-4000 ( I was too busy to look at the tach).

Brit has ben talking to local Subi tuners and they seem to be worried about killing the top end by using quick to spool turbos......they spin the motors to over 8k. As I see it, these are track guys, not AX guys. A bunch of top end is all well & good, but ya gotta get there.....which ain't gonna happen at most AXs. You want grunt NOW to pull out of all the corners and have it on tap going thru them. Mr.2 does that, the 944T doesn't. I assume these Subi guys are mostly driving heavy 4WD cars and don't get as upset by the power busting on as a light RWD car. Left foot braking *might* aid this somewhat but it would take a lot of practice to get it right.

Boost is very tunable along with size turbo you use. He will want to sacrifice peak HP for something that spools up quickly at low RPM. Thats why I think supercharger may be a better answer in some respects.

Brit might want to talk to some of the SFR region subie guys like Justin - while he hasnt done specific tuning he works with somone here. They have done all tuning focus on AX power curves. His car is a monster out of the hole with very little lag.

So when is the next big SCCA national event? Anything out here on the West coast?

Grant, you are really messed up, dude. Confucius doesn't rein in the NW. Water from the sky does!

Honestly, that comment may bring back the old "Don't Californicate Oregon" campaign...

Ooops... too late!

Packwood NT, 7/8 August. 148 entries s far.

Have to wait until next year for anything in California. San Diego hosts Solo National Tour and El Toro hosts the National Pro Solo Tour Event. San Diego had nearly 300 drivers and was awesome event! The atmosphere is much different than any local events we typically see in Nor Cal as level of competition is so much keener. And So Cal attracts some very fast Prepared and Mod class competition as well.

I'm planning for those two events next year.

Good luck to Britain running at Packwood! Would be fun to fly up and watch the event.

I agree about forced aspiration. Turbos have limits as the spool up time is generally inversely proportional to the amount of boost generated. I really like the idea of sequential turbos like Mazda used on the 3rd Gen RX-7. A little bitty turbine to spool up quickly at low rpm, followed on by a big turbo that spools up slower and really kicks in when the exhaust pressure builds.

Supercharges are really handy as they have boost on tap from tip-in all the way up. But with superchargers, it's just linear to a point then hits a plateau. Top end is best served with a turbo, bottom end and tip-in is best served with a supercharger.

Hmm... Any one out there make a combo setup? I know it's been in done in the past, but is there anything contemporary out there?

-Josh2

You know I have thought same thing after seeing this car. Figure out a legal way to keep boost constant from low to high RPM. Not sure SCCA rules would accommodate a turbine spun turbo however. LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11687nVdzdk...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNnXOAAhWI...feature=related

Wicked!

In E-Mod, three are very few restrictions on the powerplant, save that it be automotive based. One could argue that this beast would be legal. Scary, but legal.

However, since most autox venues are implementing sound restrictions, perhaps some form of electric motor driving the impeller might be more appropriate. Heck, even a geared up lawnmower engine. Although, depending on how much air you're trying to move, you might need more power.

Reminds me of the top fuel "FYI" info. That the blower for a top fuel dragster would stall a 350 chevy... Yeah, it's pushing THAT much air...

-Josh2

A big eliectic motor with some sort of clutch mechism that disengages at a certain RPM might do the job. Wonder if that would be legal?

If you do look for me. I will be driving a Blue RS America in ASP

Good Luck! I have always liked ASP as a class. Boy talking about wide range of cars. Nissan Gt-R and an Excige. 3700 lb heavyweight AWD muscle car and lightweight nimble Lotus. Youre smack in between those two! I have never seen a GTR autocross before. Suspect on more open course it would be pretty fast.