JP is right about what needs to be done to be competitive in E Mod. With a 1700 minimum weight (with driver) a 914 without extensive rework will always have a weight disadvantage.

That would mean to be super competitive The Beast would have to get down to 1500 lbs which isn't going to happen without a boat load of money. Hell, even with money it would be difficult.

It would be easier to modify "222".

I wonder if Paul's car fits the E Mod rules?

IIRC (from my looks at his pics), he might have to add some sheet metal......& ballast up. ....but what do I know....ask the troll for an exspurt opinion.

I stll say SSM is the best place for a 914.

I guess the choice of engine would be answered by how much power can can be put down effectively. Say from 30 MPH to 80 MPH has to be the quickest. You are allowed brakes, coil over front and back, flares, and as big a tire as you can buy. Transaxle can re-gear and LSD.

Early doors, early roof, front CF trunk lid, CF bumpers, 8sq ft of rear wing and a splitter as big as a kitchen counter.

Do they allow any chassis reinforcements in SSM? I would think once you get all that power and tire the car would be a flexyi flyer? I also think you would run into suspension issues. We have a fast SSM car here in Nor Cal and its faster Vics Yellow SM BMW that beat JP's E mod. Turbo RX7 that appears to make well over 400 HP - it has huge tires. You would have to spend big bucks to get power like that in a 914. Even Vic was saying he wished he had power like that turbo RX7. Anyone who has watched Vics car knows it isnt a slouch.

Honestly I think FP is a viable class for a 914-6. But if your intent is to win at Solo Nationals and to spend reasonable amounts of money I think there are better cars than 914.

You really don't get it , do you.......no need to make up some bullshit answer, you've make your statement by selling your 914. Sure, there are better cars
and *maybe* one could invest less money in one of them to win a class, but even your august self doesn't know that for sure....you're too busy running your gums to try it and then be found wanting. It's a high risk, low reward situation....obviously not your style. If you think so little of the 914, why come here?....it certainly is not to dazzle us with your knowledge or wit.

So, rather than tell us what we can't accomplish, why don't you get off your dead ass and show us how a real sharp operator does it. That would make your opinions valuable rather than pure drivel. As it is, you've added nothing to this thread but more bullshit.

As for Vic, yes, this car is fast.....but do you really thnk he has less dollars in his car than I have in mine.....and Brit is 1 & 1 with his no "slouch car". ...on a venue we'd never ran before. Brit had his chance to make it 2 for 2 but that's the way it goes sometimes. As designated "ringer" thrown in to insure no 914 guy got TTOD either day, that plan failed. I hope that really stuck in someone's craw....

As for the top E Mod car in the country......you lost by 3 sec to him and 1.5 sec to Brit.....The remaining 1.5 sec is what I think we need to make up......so tell me again I can't ...I love to hear a poor looser whine.

Yep, had I known what I know now I would have joined them in the Mazda Area. CSP Miata.

94 Miata, with 2004 motor 275/35-15 all around, Custom intake exhaust, couple of composite on piece race seats. and call it done.

There musta been 50 of em' at the NT last year vs one 914 IIRC......join the herd.
A fast herd, but still a herd.

Leeds Gulick's 914 has won Nationals in FP a few times with Greg and Jodi Fordahl behind the wheel. That car has more money into it than I care to imagine and is for sale for 40k at the moment. I am putting my money on that car to set TTOD at the shootout.

Which one? I have owned and driven several 914's over the past 33 years. I love 914's and will drive one in the future again soon. 914 is a great car! Its just not a viable E Mod car for the average garage hobbiest on a reasobnable budget. Youre going to find this hard to believe but Axing played no role in me trading the 914. I had been planning to sell it for a while due to lack of room for trailer and no shelter for the car. It was rusting away before my eyes as I live close to the ocean and I wanted it to go to a good home. You may not have realized this but the car was still running on original unrestored chassis with no reinforcments other than my home brew cage and most of suspension and parts were original factory parts. I knew I'd be in for some major restore work if I held onto the car and let cool moist ocean air to take its toll.

I'm simply making a well grounded statement about 914's and Solo National Championships in Lincoln. The 914 is at a distinct disadvantage in most SCCA Solo classes at a National level. Not many people have expereince or money to put a 914 in the winners circle at Solo Nats. I count you in that group as painful as the truth may be as I'm a realist. Doesnt mean you cant have fun with it beating snot out of poorly driven 911's etc at a local level. I thought thats why you built the car to make up for your lack of focus on driving? Its served those purposes well for you. Again if you think your 914 is an E mod contender for Nationals at Lincoln put your car there and recruit a fast driver. ...but rumor had it that you were thinking of selling your car prior to economy going in the dumper. Perhaps you had come to the rational conclusion you didnt have a chance running your car at national level?

Well I gotta admit that winning the Nats in a Prepared or Mod class on the cheep is a near impossibility...the same is true in all classes at that level, near as I can figure. That doesn't mean one rolls up one's tent & pack it in, however, as most guys are trying to do the same thing. You gotta remember that 95ish% of the field at the Nats or a Tour event doesn't win a class.....but they are there to compete & have fun. We "homebuilt" types keep plugging away and take as high a spot as we are able.

BTW, I suck as a driver, but I beat "poorly driven" 914s on occasion also.

So how do you think a boxster could be lightened to 1800lbs? Please be specific.

Thks.

Ayupp ... No more ... You can still get 175 for 13" rims, but the softest for the 15" is the R250 ...

Andy

At 1800 lbs, the boxster would be a couple hundred pounds over weight as E mod minimums are with driver aboard.

At 1800 #'s the Boxster would be swiss cheese with a carbon fiber body over it.

Glad you asked because I have been thinking about this! Strip car down to chassis - remove undercoating, pull all that uneccesary and heavy skirting from underneath the car, pull fender liners and structures that hold rear bumper on. Remove rear bumper and all structures that hold it to the car. Replace fenders, doors, front bumper, hood and trunk with CF. Gut entire interior and put lightweight aluminum dash in the car. Lop off the front windshield, remove the rear convertible top cover (damn that thing is heavy!). Remove all heat shielding, sound insulation, useless electric blower motors and crap from engine comparment. Replace the stock fuel tank with a small fuel cell. Remove all radiator ducting, motors and fans. Pull windshield wipers, motors etc, pull heater core ducting etc.

Use 16 inch Jongblode wheels with Hoosier race slicks (Thats easily a 50 to 60 lb weight savings over what specs use). Lightweight headers straight to lightweight mufflers. Pull headlights out. Build a lightweight AX cage - Boxster chassis doesnt need nearly the reinforcing the 914 does. Put either aluminum body PSS10's, Motons, ect on the car. Cut out front and rear crash structures - they dont serve any function on an AX car. Install lightweight flywheel and clutch assembly ( thats a huge savings too) Use aluminum brake hats, use a single CF race seat.

Spec cars dont even come close to getting all weight out and some are below 2400 lbs!

It would look something like this but with all CF panels doors, no windsheild and a much less beefy cage.



Honestly I dont think you would have to swiss cheese the car to get there. You would just have to be motivated to have a AX only car.

Nothing new here Grant, sorry.

Maybe 2100 at best and then I'm giving you 350lbs less than Bill Pickering's 2450# stripped car.

But in any event be specific about what weight you are assigning for each set of items outlined so we can compare factually.

Expereinced AX car builders dont need to do anything new. All parts and techniques are known. Its not magic! FYI Bills car is not the lightest of the spec cars and getting 350 lbs out of his car would not be difficult. I believe he still has an aluminum top on his car and I think he has a stock flywheel. Spec cars leave tons of heavy parts on due to rules.

Youre on target for road race weight. There are heavier fiberglass body road race Boxsters that are already in the 2150 to 2200 lb range and they have full road race cages, windsheilds, tops, bigger motors, all the road race safety sysems, 3 radiators, heavier road race wheels, etc. I'll meet half way and say 1900 lbs is realistic for an AX car, but 1800 is achievable with focus. Still not bad! I hear people say that there isnt much opportunity with Boxsters, I disagree. Lots of stuff can be pulled or replaced with much lighter aluminum or CF. I'll leave the specific part weight look up to you! ....Unless you want to pay me for that analysis? I charge my discounted rate of $250 hr for AX build consulting ..no customers yet Oh yes I did keep the few secret ideas out of the post. Always have to have something that keeps people guessing how it can be done. But I assure you my number is achievable regardless of what the "experts" tell you.

Back to your 914 and SCCA Solo Glory. I would take 222, chuck the VW motor and put either a turbo Subi or turbo rotary in there. Tune to 400 hp. Pick proper gearing. Then get some real wheels and tires on the car to put power down. That would be a hero maker.

Ahh, no response, but never mind, as it's clear your agenda isn't the same as my original one in presenting the question. On the other hand it's cheap entertainment.

Here is a heavy version of what I'm thinking.

Put this motor in it and you have a 914 killer: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-GT3...tem290305604119

Well that was fun.
As you can see I managed a 5th place finish in a CSP Miata.
Car was not top notch, I have NEVER driven the car before. 1st run was a bit of a calibrate my butt to the car.
Did not get blown out in fact after the 2nd runs today I had wiggled into the second place spot. didn't last log but it was cool for about a minute and a half.

Lesson learned a Miata does not drive like a 914. evidenced by my 1st run DNF. My right foot wrote a check my ass couldn't cash.

Sounds like a fun day to me Joe!

C stock cars seemed to be moving fast.

Noticed that a couple classes such as Emod had 1 or 0 show up? Economy impacting attendance?

http://www.scca.org/documents/resultfiles/...day%20final.pdf

No idea why you are so in love with E-mod.
A-mod car Wanna go fast? learn how to drive.

WHo said I was in love with E mod? Never ran there and never intend too. Didnt say I was building an E mod Boxster - said I know of somone who is. I'm trying to convince JP and Randal E Mod in 914' its a lost cause if goal is to have a National Class E Mod car. I wouldnt run that class ever. If the goal is to have a kick butt car and win local AX's then dont worry about class. Build the car to go fast and run fun class.

Street class to Prepared Class are better because you stay with basics of a production car in my opinion.

Actually a Prepared Boxster might be comptetive. I know you could make a competitive XP Boxster based on what I have seen. Subaru 2.5 STI motor with boost cranked, LSD and huge Hoosiers would make a Boxster a force to delt with.

Good job! 5th place beats bench racing any day.

You're too full of yourself.....and some other stuff.... to have any effect on me.
A lot of mouth with little practical experience not to mention no guts to try anything like an E Mod/XP Boxster.... Not enuff money to have it done nor the talent to DIY it. Listen to you?....you gotta be kidding.

My car owner and I were talking on the way home. He said I was on the rev limiter all the way across the back through the slalom. I said "is that what that noise was"? Which means I was going through 5 cone slalom that was increasing distance at 59.5 MPH. It wouldn't go any faster I guess.

I told Him I wanted to shift and would have in the 914.

....all the way across the back through the slalom.....

Man, that had to cost you some time.

Does a (CSP) Miata have enough torque to pull you right after shifting or will it be boggings time?

....See we share more in common than you think JP. LOL!

60 MPH through a slalom is pretty freaking fast. By the time I realized it was the rev limiter it was to late to do anything about it.
Do not know enough about the car to do stupid things. Never driving it before the 1st run at an Natinal Tour probably wasn't the best either. I can usually drive around most cars problems at a local event. If I screw up no biggy I'll just get another run.

Nothing like a slalom, especially a fast one, to find out what works or doesn't in a car.

Here you go this car is probably the closest thing I have seen to an Emod car that might have a chance in SCCA. ..and it was built nearly 20 years ago and probablyu doesnt conform to updated rules.

Grant was that your old car? it says E-Mod Ladies on the side.

Yep that was before my sex change operation.

This explains a lot

There might be a reasonable way. How about an Esslinger motor (4 cylinder) which is light, makes a ton of hp and torque and is nicely packaged.

Think about a 914, with a tire setup like the Beast (11's and 12's) a light weight, like 200lbs engine, with 360hp and 230 ft lbs of torque. And the Esslinger revs to 9500 with just about a flat torque and hp curve from 6500 up.

Yea, you'd need a 915 or a G50, but it would be a great power to weight package.

Edit: Of course I'd prefer a Porsche 3 liter built by Matt Lowrance, with about 380-400 hp, but those are expensive and last 25 hours.

The way I see it , Randal, you have good start on a very good E Mod car.
Were I you, I'd spend more time thinking about loosing weight on your car and maximizing grip. HP is NOT the key.....if anything, torque is more important.
Case in point, D Mod cars out perform E Mod cars.....no HP advantage here.
Weight & grip are the keys.

There are folks that will tell ya that you can't be successful in E Mod.....but I ain't one of them.

I think the more salient point is why does it matter if you have no intent to go to Nationals to run E Mod? People on SCCA boards all comment on fact that Prepped and Modifieds regionally are dying classes. Mostly due to fact that DOT tires have been allowed in street classes.

You can show up and be the one or two E mods and win your class but is that really fun? I have focused on OSP and XP where we at least have a few more cars and better drivers. Yeah I'm outgunned but at least I have competition. Dont be like some of the 911 guys and find a class where no one competes just to say your the fastest in class.

914's are very capable of being good cars in tougher classes too. In Nor Cal OSP is the place I would focus. Get a set of DOT Hoosiers and go after the Cobra and hordes of Miatas. I think last UFO there were over 15 OSP cars. I dont think there was a single E Mod.

....Yes chopped up 914's actually qualify for OSP as long as you run DOT tires!

All depends on the region. OSP is a regional class only. Every region implements theirs differently, with different rules. In our region (Colorado), OSP required lights, glass and tags.

-Josh2

Not with SFR. Just had to have been registered for street at one point and run DOT tires. Its pretty wide open.

But truly production Mod and Prep all tend to be "soft" classes with not many good drivers at a local and regional level. SCCA guys love to make fun of those classes in Nor Cal. They tend to be populated with trophy hounds as opposed to fast drivers. You'll find fast drivers in Stock classes where competition is stiff.
.

Here are OSP rules for SFR:

Rules for "Open Street Prepared " class.

This is a SFR-only class.

The vehicle must have originally been produced for and registered for street use. A license plate on the car and a registration document showing the plate belonging to the vehicle will be accepted as proof of original registration for the street. A current registration sticker need not be evident on the plate as the vehicle registration does not need to be current. The vehicles must compete on D. O. T. (Department of Transportation) approved tires. The SFR value for this class for indexing purposes will be established each season by the Steering Committee.

No question your right JP and that's where I'm going. The motor questions are really just an intellectual exercise.

My motor was built for torque and when we get it back in the car and dyno it again, it'll be fun to see what it does after 6150 rpm.

As to weight loss the next go around starts to get tough as you have to start losing big sections of body sheet metal and adding FG. I'd like to hear Paul's opinion, but to lose 100-150lbs requires some dramatic steps. Hard to figure which (next) steps are the smartest!

Simple really.
If it doesn't make it go, stop or turn, it gets removed.

I'm beyond simple. Without a fair cash injection someone (like me) without your FG skills is SOL. Gonna ballast up to XP.....bummer.

Its always fun to dig up old "Doubting Thomas" posts from my biggest fans! My full SCCA road race legal caged all steel fendered Boxster just went into 2000 lb range today! If I wasnt intent on Solo FP class and wanted to go Modified class we could pull another 100 lbs out of the car and go into 1900 lb range just as I had predicted over a year ago!

My "agenda" has always been to help put the Boxster platform into competitive light in grassroots motorsports. Looks like we are getting there!

There's Grant's light, then there's light. In E Mod The heaviest you need to be, regardless of engine size is 1800lbs *with the driver on board*.
In D Mod the magic number is (@2000ccs max) 1380 with driver.

I am sandbagging a little. Let's just say certain class weight minimums will be attained.

Anyone who thought Boxster AX car couldn't be brought down to 1700 to 1900 lbs just didn't understand these cars well. That's understandable as so few of these cars have actually be torn down and prepared as true modified and prepared class race cars.

I think thing that surprised me is fact that I can get under 2000 lbs with steel fenders and no Swiss cheese of the chassis and a full road race cage. An ax only car could lose 50 lbs of cage!

I guess we will pass each other on September 8th. I suspect at least a few beers will enjoyed.

Looking at my calendar this weekend is my last big fast event on Concrete.

Found me a 24 yr co-driver with past Karting experience. Yep might as wel have a hired gun when going to Nationals.

By spending money, time and effort you can substantially reduce any car's weight. Just look what Paul did with his 914. What was it Paul said about it, "If it doesn't make it go, stop or turn, it gets removed."

So put in the work and $$$ and you'll have a light weight Boxster, but it isn't going to happen without a bunch of work and money.

Unfortunately this throws your cheap build premise out the window and you haven't even touched the engine or transmission yet.

Oh, I forgot, you have Brad as your primary sponsor so all this work will cost you nothing, or maybe Jake is going to build you an engine as your primary sponsor.

Alternatively Brad will surely have a 996 or some other 300HP+ motor sitting around that he'll "bolt in" as part of your deal with BRAG.

Much of the weight reduction is very straight forward. Very simple unbolting of parts and some slight cutting just as on my prepared class 914. I can assure you this car is less expensive than my 914-6 build. Someone with time, a plasma torch, a grinder and a sawzall could do this very cheap in less than two weeks. No exotic materials, no special skills, etc. This isnt a tubeframe and fiberglass car like Paul's. Its a Production based Prepared car. I havent even started cutting the chassis or nonstructural sheetmetal back yet! Thats why I say a Modified class car could reach 1700 lbs. My car with intact chassis will hit 1900 lb FP weight minimum.

With simple bolt on's we expect to get over 200 WHP from my $2500 used 2480cc motor. I'll post they dyno sheets when we are finished. Removing all parasitic accessories and going to electric too!. Conversion of accessories powered by engine to electric is less than $1000! God bless the American drag racing crowd! Remind us again how much WHP a $25K custom built 2.4 liter T4 puts out to the wheels?

If you think about it Boxster motors in stockish form produce HP very similar to very expensive race built aircooled motors. New 2.9 Boxster motors can produce close to 300 HP with a few tweaks and no touch of internals.

My tranny has been touched and I can assure you Audi gears are cheaper than what you can find for 901.

And primary sponsor is undisclosed at this point. There are some exciting developments for us Boxster racing enthusiasts that will be revealed soon. Just look for a couple cars from this venture to be at nationals this year.

I like the reframe after all the flack people were giving me when I said my Boxster would go below 2000 lbs. ...Really thats the best you guys can do? "Uhh its super duper expensive" Dooh! Typical 914 enthusiast who is comfortable tearing down a 914 a Boxster is just as easy. Just a ton more stuff to unbolt. Trek saw the pile of stuff I pulled! Filled half of my temporary garage! and there is still a ton coming off! I was always very curious why the guy doing complete spec car tear down in AZ was being so cagey about sharing weight. Now I know!

One really has to wonder why a few people insist in saying Boxster race car would be prohibitively expensive? A competent home mechanic could easily build similar car. If you see my car you will quickly understand it isnt exotic. Its very much a grassroots racer. I can assure you I have less time and money in the car than some of the fancy boxster spec racers we know about! And the car is way more fun than a spec car!

But lets face it your Modified class 914 still has few hundred lbs on the car which is impossible to overcome in AX. Only way Boxster could take on a Modified 914 would be with HP. But again a cheap 3.4 conversion of my car would put it in the realm of a mod class 914. You should drag 222 out to Marina later this month to see how it compares.

As mentioned before the new era of Porsche motorsports is about to be ushered in. I have finally found some other people who agree.