I started modifying my car a few weeks ago for autocross. It's a 1973 1.7l car with a more or less stock 1975 2.0l engine, very clean. After the Portland PCA AX #1, I made a few postings and got some suggestions. Rather than continue to hijack that thread, I thought I would start my own.

So here's where we are at today:

Tarrett Engineering front sway bar installed and set to mid point
225# Rear Springs and perches
Koni Sport Adjustable Shocks set 1/2 turn from full stiffness
Turbo Tie Rods
205/50-15 Kuhmo Ecsta XS Tires
Empi 44mm Dual Carbs (replaced a single Weber)
Mallory Unilite Mechanical Advance Distributor
JWest RennShift side-shift
Triad Headers and Exhaust System - heat disconnected of course
Porterfield R4-S Brake Pads - to be installed next week

I think that's about it. Damn, she drives nice. Super tight in the corners. Wow.

So, what's next? Besides just drive and compete. I know that. I don't plan to miss a single autocross opportunity in the Portland area.

Pictures next. Don't complain yet. Would love to get more ideas and suggestions.

Thank you,

Steve

That is a lot of progress since we last met.
For now, just get some more butt time. There is a long slippery slope just ahead.....you may not wanna get too close to the edge.

Aint that the truth... ask me how I know

Good AX alignment ( make sure you have some decent neg camber up front - at least -2) and good AX tires either Kuhmo 710's or Hoosier A6. Weight reduction. Weight and stickage are two biggest components that impact times in a lower powered 914.

When you get real serious a good seat and a harness will help too.

But like JP says if you dont have much AX expereince its drive drive drive. Spend lots of time walking course with a variety of people and ask how they would take sections. Beware of people who think they know the best way through a turn while walking a course. Get expereinced people to ride with you and offer tips.

When last I saw Steve's car (bout a month ago) it was a stock 914 except for the motor, it seems....very nice I must add. I only suggested a front sway bar.
It appears he took that ball & ran with it.

Looking over his mods it would seem that there is going to be some suspension tuning required...hopefully the motor is up to snuff..there are a lot of changes there.

My thinking is to get this beastie under control before making any more changes.
He will get any assistance he wants to tighten the nut behind the wheel.

Other than that, I agree with Grant for future help....cept I'm a Hoosier fan.

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JP - Sorry to confuse by listing all the mods from stock. The engine mods were all done prior to the first AX. The only thing new since the AX is the front sway bar, rear springs, tires and brake pads.

Grant - As to front camber - I have negative 1.8 degrees currently. 13mm across 420mm wheel width. It's about the same in the rear.

Engine and Interior Shots
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That is a lot of progress since we last met.
For now, just get some more butt time. There is a long slippery slope just ahead.....you may not wanna get too close to the edge.
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See if you can get pictures of the car on a course. Both tight and wide corners, also during rapid direction changes - like a slalom course. IMHO this (really) helps to figure out what the car is doing in different places and allows you an educated view on the appropriate adjustments.

Of course if you are one of those "gifted ones" that can read a car from the seat of your pants, then all the better.

I feel it is better to learn the car with semi sticky street tires. A6, and 710s can cover a lot of problems, and can generate some bad habits. Learn to drive smooth and carry your speed. After that race tries and lighter/wider wheels would be next.

Evolution runs a good Auto-x school if they ever get in your area.

Based on my experiences I'd say remove as much weight as possible, Add a rear swaybar, tires, drive the crap outta the car, consider 5-lug based on brakes and mass, consider engine upgrades, LSD etc.

Really, tires and driving will do more than anything else. I'm a big fan of the rear bar, it keeps all the wheels on the ground and allows for REALLY controllable oversteer. All of the other stuff is a few hundredths of a second here and there. Have you stiffened the car at all? I've got the weltmeister rear kit, and a 'cage' which pretty much only adds stiffness, I'm considering doing some more up front.

It probably would make sense to add a rear sway bar. But, I think the biggest improvement I could possibly make would be to put a Raby 2316 engine in there. That would be cool, but it takes 4-1/2 months to get one. That's a lot of sleepless night in anticipation.

Well, I'll keep driving, cleaning and polishing whilst I wait. I repainted the skirts, spoiler and valence this week. Looks, oh so much better.

I used VHT, Hood Bumper and Trim Paint, SP27. The new nozzle system is awesome for rattle can stuff. Dries enough for handling in 3-4 hours.
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All the power in the world does you no good if you can't hook it up. You have also entered a slippery slope as it will require rejetting them Empi 44s $$, a Tangerine Evo Header $$$$. And well depending on the flavor of 2316, a LSD $$$$, new tires $$$, maybe $$$$ cause of wheels. Next thing you know you have flared fenders, a stiffened chassis, a roll cage. Now you have a car thats ready for the 2316, but no $$$$ left for one.

Don't ask me how I know that one.

Tune, learn, drive, rinse and repeat.

I will give you a great example, I guy here used to run a semi-stock Miata, suspension and tire tricks galore. He was a top dog, running in the top 10 here constantly. He had his sights set of FTD, so off to MazdaSpeed for a turbo, that will do it. Now he has power, and can't drive the car worth crap. He upset the balance of the entire car, now he is lucky to be in the top 25. And gets beating by the same guys who used to beat him every weekend, and now he has another 15 or so he gets to see him.

I have not told him, but if he just turned down the boast a little, he would be back in the hunt.

On the other hand it does not hurt to dream. I am personally looking at a 2270-175 engine kit right now. As the 2316-210 requires just so much more of an invest it peripheral systems. Mainly Transaxles!!! Don't get me worng I would love a 2316-210 combo but I also have to be realistic.

And yes I run a rear bar, others don't. Suspension setup on a 914 is like underwear, every body has there opinions, mine is like wearing a poison ivy g-string.

Honestly I don't care what you run as long as you make to the dance - have fun.

Now for the analytical respounce.

The stock US spec 2.0L is ~90 HP, my class I have to run 2175 lbs, wet, no driver.

Thats a power to weight ratio of 24.16 to 1

2056-125 is 17.4
2270-175 is 12.4
2316-185 is 11.7
2316-210 is 10.357

These cost from $4K-6K

If I shave it down t fighting weight, not Pauls feather weights, but a reasonable racer weight. 1750 lbs. This is if your rules allow.

2.0-90 19.4 to 1
2056-125 is 14
2270-175 is 10
2316-185 is 9.4
2316-210 is 8.3

Now you get more bennifits if your car weighs less. Responsiveness, cornering, acceleration, braking, tire wear.

Unfortunately you also have to put it into persecutive and figure, a new Vette, the bane of my existence, has a PTW of 7.9 to 1. It also cost ~4.5 times more of an entry price. Luckily auto-x is not about HP, though it helps, you don't necessarily need it to be successful.

I'm around a 7.5:1 ratio.....it is not a foot to the floor & steer rig.

You have to learn to drive such a beastie. To do that, it has be reliable.
I have had 2 instances where I missed runs due to breakdown (both electrical) in 9 seasons. Anyone that thinks that such reliability is possible with a 200 hp T-4 has been drinkin' Jake's kool-ade. Anyone here that can *show* me I'm wrong, speak up.

You have a great record JP, no doubt, but saying "any" 200hp T-4 can't be reliable is a stretch.

The capability to make 200HP with a T-4 hasn't been around long, so essentially no one can *show* you, with your specified parameters.

On the other hand I know my motor was put together right and will be/ is reliable. With the new valve springs it will be more than 200hp with huge torque.

To be honest we've figured it would go 4 seasons without breaking the case, but only time will tell.

When somone with a 200 HP T4 drives at places other than for 40 second runs at an AX a few times a year, perhaps on track and on street for extended miles I will begin to believe a 200 HP T4 is reliable. Until then they are still all very expereimental. Very cool but expereimental.

Certainly I wouldnt trust anyone other than Jake. He is the Jedi master of big T4's. You dont want to stray too far from the force if you are going down path of a big T4 that makes over 200 HP. Too many things that can go wrong that could spell the end to your empire of money spent on these beasts.

I'm not wishing ill will on anyone.....particularlly you. I hope your motor makes 4-5 years without problems.....but as Grant says, it's an experiment and from following your build, a damned expensive one (prolly more than I have i my whole car).....BUT....show me, I'll to ya.

BTW, 10 weeks till the Shoot Out.

Lots of considerations, that's for sure. I am attracted to the Jake Raby turn key engine program; that's got to be the most risk-free way to put some serious power in my car.

I've got a damn nice 2.0 liter now that's probably worth some bucks towards the purchase of a new engine. The carbs are from Jake anyway and were purchased with the idea of doing the 185 kit at least. I have to send them in when he's ready to tune the engine. I'll probably sell my engine with the old single carb and with the Triad headers. Jake wants me to get the Tangerines to match up to his motor.

I had an awesome drive from Portland to Bend today over Santiam Pass - I love the new sway bars. A couple of my wheels aren't perfectly true which caused some serious vibration; that is, until I stopped at Les Schwab and had the tires rotated. Amazing how they spin true on the rear but not on the front. Smooth as glass after the rotation.

Expensive and the till is still open...

I'd like to make the shootout - still trying to get my car back in order.

Yeah, well ....we ain't gonna sneak up on anyone this year.

I just wish my sorting out had progressed more to give you guys a bit more competition, but you did good.

OK, that was last year. How's your progress this year?.....that 10 week bit was not for nothing.

We have a 2 day OR SCCA event in Packwood in the middle of June to try out our
"new improved" set-up prior to the Packwood NT event in July. God willing & the creek don't rise we'll have our "A Game" ready for the Shoot Out come August.
Leeds Gulick is coming with that white killer 914....dunno if Fordahl is gonna drive it, but Leeds is no slouch......dunno if our "A Game" is good enuff for those guys.
It hasn't been our past meetings.

Jake-Aid funny stuff there JP, I drink straight well water and in the summer it might come out that hose outside. I am educated enough to make my own stupid decisions.

And my Type-IV does not meet your cryteria, but I can say since 85, I have only lost one run to a mechanical failure, like you it was electrical. And was fixed immediately, so it never would/could happen again.

Good luck against that white car, neither driver is a slouch, Maybe you should toss them the keys to the yellow beast and see just how much faster/slower they are to you.

I do that here with a buddy and his sons, they start talking smack, or I, we exchange keys and lay down a couple runs. levels the playing field so to speak. But then you find out who can drive the course better that given day. I am usually 2-5 seconds faster, unless I blow a run.

Come to the Shoot Out & I'll toss YOU my keys.

I've tossed enuff keys to know that I am a mediocre driver at best.....I'm a bit particular about who gets them, but there it is.

If we can work in some extra runs, I'll have a guest driver again....I've decided it's a tradition for the Shoot Out. Larry Sharp upheld the other tradition of beating me in my car. IIRC, he was 3rd or 4th fastest on the first day. If fact, there has been only one guy that has not beaten me in my car.....who shall remain nameless in Florida.

Edit: 3rd fastest amongst the 914s

What about wheel spacers? I definitely have room to move the wheels out 15mm to 20mm, maybe more...

I'm running 4x130 American Racing Fuchs knock offs with 205/50-15 tires.

Any suggestions here? Potential problems?

Rear Space:
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Front Space:
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Thanks,

Steve

Wider track won't do shit.

Wider tires?

If you get 205 Hoosier A6s that space will get ate up. You may have to add 10MM or so spacers to keep them off the inner fenders with the negative camber they like. Just leave it alone for now and save your money/work for fitting good AX tires/wheels.

Just my .02.

So what would be the recommendation for AX wheels and in what size?

Seems like a 15x7 or 15x8 would be about right.

I don't plan on making any major wheel tire investments until I know for sure that I don't want to add flares.

Thanks,

Steve

It depends on the car but in my case I had to flare the rear for 225 X 15s on 7s.
The 205 X 15 X 7 fit up front. Kuhmo VRacers. 2002 I think.

I adjusted my clutch cable so I can shift without pushing the clutch pedal down very far at all. Ditch as much weight as you can! A small battery is a quick way to drop almost 20lbs. My favorite loss of weight was going to a 14lb flywheel. With headers and a lightened flywheel, the increased throttle response is awesome.

Flaring is not the question of "IF" it more of a question of " when and how much"

I did the same as JP about a year later. 205/50-15 Hoosiers on 15 x 8 wheels Quite a bit too much for stock fenders.

I've signed up for a 2316 Jake Raby engine. Should have it by late Sept or early Oct.

For the time being, I'm just planning to do some driving and work on suspension, balance, brakes, etc.

Will probably wet sand the entire car (paint really needs work) and totally strip and repaint the engine bay and underside of trunk. What a mess - damn undercoating from the 70's. Bead blast or wire brush?

We'll have your header ready for coating in a couple of weeks.
If you want I can send the stub pipes to you along with the header, instead of sending them to Jake, and you'll be able to mount the system on your 2 liter for the summer.

Yummy, more meat to eat in the mod class.

Hmmn. A good reason to deliver more to Steve than he is paying for..

Steve, consider the additional power a sponsorship.

Thanks Jake. Until my engine arrives, I promise to spend as many hours as possible training; I'll be in the gym, lifting, running, doing reflex drills... whatever it takes.

And I will continue to get the rest of my car ready for battle. I've got two autocross events coming up shortly so I'll be able to test all the suspension modifications, corner balancing, new tires, R4-S brake pads with proper rear venting clearance, new steering column bearings, and tuned carbs.

Next on the list / items to complete or consider:
22mm or 23mm hollow torsion bars
Elephant polybronze bearings
Chassis stiffening - need to study this carefully

Steve

Everything will change when I deliver double the power you have now... The set up, the way it drives, the tires and etc..

Thats why most cars go SLOWER the first few times out with more power than they did in stock form..

JP is right. Bontempi (High Performance House) will tell you the same thing: it takes a year of autoxing (and simultaneous instruction) and schools, if they are available, to get on the right path.

Given the power that you'll have and the tire setup it's easy to get find yourself on that slippery slope - having to fight handing issues instead of concentrating on learning how to drive.

Actually JP isn't kidding about that slippery slope. When you put that 2.3 in you'll have jumped on to the slope head first, especially with 205 tires. To be honest I wonder if the 205 tires would work in any event, even with an LSD. Remember that Jake's motors pump out a ton of torque....mine is over 190ft lbs at 5000 RPM, which would just shred 205's.

One bit of advice pertains to your base setup. I'm sure there is someone up there that knows how to get a good baseline - this will make a huge difference. I like Rich Walton down here...every time he has base lined one of our cars it simply worked afterwards. He is going to be getting mine when the cage is complete and I get my little 4 cylinder back in.

The 3 most important things for AX set-up are 1) tires 2) tires & 3) tires.
Whole cars have been built around available tires or made into class contenders
by a new size/type release.

Yes, understood. Tires are key.

But, this driver needs lots of work too. I've got a few AX events to do this summer to try and improve the driver portion of the equation.

What's the ideal wheel and tire set up for the SSM class? Street legal.

If 5 lug hubs? How should I go about conversion? Seems like wheel choices are very limited staying with a 4x130 bolt pattern.

You get a serious weight break in SSM by keeping the sizes 275 section width or less......which I know seems huge to you at this point. It won't with one of Jake's torquers.

BRAG offers some 5 lug hubs that are made for 914 spindles.

Rears are a bit more problematic. I've been out of that loop for so long that I don't know who offers what these days. Ideally some redrilled 70/early 71 914 hubs are a good thing to use. I'm not a fan of redrilling the later hubs....tho guys use em'.

Also, Eric Shea can prollyy help ya at both ends

205/50-15
WILL NOT BE WORTH A SHIT FOR A 2316.

SSM requires big power. 2316 has good power. without a 275/35-15 A6 Hoosier you will not be able to put down 1/3 of the power.

you can go pretty light with the car, if memory serves 1980 pounds.

Good luck.

I agree.

With that much torque, you will have a hard time finding full throttle unless you've got a lot of meat under the car. The 275 from Hoosier is a GREAT tire by all accounts. But getting those shoes to fit will require a lot of body work on the fenders. 205's will be way too little tire for that drive train in a competition venue.

And while I agree with JP's "tires..tires...tires" comment. The tires are not gonna get you three unless the rest of the chassis can do the job.

Don't forget alignment. A lot of folks don't put enough value on alignment, and that will make or break your setup.

You are already on the slippery slope, the best you can do is hold on tight, and hope to mediate the financial hemorrhaging that is about to occur...

And if you're already in the deep end of the pool, I'd consider moving away from 4x130 wheels. You'll only find them from custom fabricators in widths that you'll be looking for.

-Josh2

Word on the 4 x 130 wheels. Bogart is one fine wheel. 15 x 10 is about the limit because you won't find a tire any bigger in 15" size than a 275/35-15 or one of the slicks also made by Hoosier.

Now jump to a 17 or 18" wheel and now you can go up to 315 WOOT!!!!

and even 345 in the 18" wheels.

all cost a butt ton of money.

Wow sweet car. You have done alot of work on the car. I have to agree with most of the mods that you have made and plan to make.

But all the mods and fattest tires in the world wont mean Jack If you don't get some cones and find a big parking lot and........PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE . That will be the biggest bang for the buck. Stop waisting money and spend some time on the tarmack.
I wish you the best of luck.
Gunther

I just happen to have a set of good used tire for ya ...Look and tha`ll` shall find ...............Info that is

"a few AX events..."? Well, it depends on what you mean by a few... Less than a handful? Or less than 50? I know people who drive nearly EVERY weekend of the summer season.

I'll echo what others have so wisely said. Nothing will lower your times like experience. Do some basic prep to the car, and then get out there and drive. Don't change a thing. Just drive. Drive. Drive. Drive. Enter as many AX events, schools and Test 'n tune events as you can. The more experience behind the wheel you have, the better you'll be able to judge the merits of different changes and mods that you may or may not want to make to the car. Take the oportunity to have hot shoes drive your car, ask if you can passenger with them. If you're fortunate to be offered other cars to drive, do it. I learned more in a couple seasons co-driving other cars than I did in the half dozen years before that. I learned what I did and didn't like in the way a car behaved. I learned what a truly properly setup car feels like, and I learned what even a small change in said car can do to the otherwise great handling.

You're building a car that will most likely compete with the "trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters", so be prepared to be under-prepared. Classes with near limitless allowances tend to become ridiculously expensive very quickly. Spend your money wisely, and start with getting seat time above all else.

-Josh2

I agree with butt time. You need to learn the cult of autocross......reading the course, looking ahead, best lines, late apex, how to pitch & catch.....et al.

That said, driving a foot to the floor 2.0L in no way prepares you for what you're gonna find with 200 hp settin' over your shoulder and the bunches of grip that good tires bring to the equation. The only way to learn that is to do it.......at good old Hardly Normal University.