yeah, will be interesting to see what the improvement is on the track... knowing my luck maybe a second

I would have to do some serious sorting on the car before branching out to far away tracks, but would love to run Thill with it - that track looks like fun. Willow Springs in SoCal is 1000 miles and it is around 1100-1200 miles to Thill so pretty significant commitment to roll out to one of them, but I like the bigger tracks in CA and would also like to run on Miller in Utah - that one is close enough that may be a reality if the sorting goes well, maybe as early as next year.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I did in fact call and order the CCW wheels yesterday, and just talked to John on the phone again here so they are getting rolling on them. As mentioned before he has some deep, 9" barrels that are an "old stock" lighter version that I can use - to make it work out I have 10.5" fronts coming and 11.5" rears v. my current 10/11 setup.

The front wheels are gonna look a bit funny IMO given the thin 1.5" outer barrels, but it is a sacrifice I need to make to get it to work out for the best.

Here is a shot of a car on his site with a 1" barrel, so I have a liiiiittttllle bit more lip than this at least... gonna use the black centers again of course, not polished like this shot.

http://www.ccwheel.com/files/zoomed-image....c&id=09.jpg

So I am sure many of you will like this one, certainly Brett and even Randal... traded the tow vehicle in tonight for a new Vette Grand Sport I have never thought I would ever use this acronym but OMFG is it awesome! Has the LS3 in it, dry sump, 6spd.

I have been wanting a C6 for quite awhile and I have really been eyeballing the Grand Sport since I am hoping they are going to be pretty limited production in the long run, but they had them in 63, then in 96, now hopefully limited for the C6 body but it is going to be a standard option now, so as long as run #s stay down they will be worth something someday.

I went in just testing the water, turns out they had a buyer for my truck already lined up looking for one, gave me a smokin' trade in, took a chunk off the tag, etc - I got a fully loaded (every option but one lame one) setup for the price of a pretty stripped down GS so I couldn't resist that one.

I went to a rental center earlier today and figured out I can just rent a moving truck for around $100 with mileage to run out to the local track, I can unbolt all of their hitch stuff and am going to weld up my own adapter to just bolt my hitch up Then I just bolt it on and off in about 5 minutes each time. At least that is the plan. They don't care if you tow with it, tho' they might not like the hitch stuff, but whatever, what they don't know won't hurt 'em

TIM,

Congrats on the new C6 Gran Sport, it's a great car. Share a couple pics, won't you?

The front engine/rear trans-diff is a fantastic layout giving the car great balance.
I've played with some stock C6s on Streets of Willow Springs and while I can pass them (much bigger tires + better power-to-wt), it is easy to see how well they handle and how easy they are to drive. A comfortable car is a fast car!

I just hope you won't give up on the 914 and go ALL CHEVY, ALL the TIME!

Terry

Cleared over 100 miles already in just a couple of days on the new car, bought it with 8. I will be using the 914 for racing for sure, this was one of those deals where I rarely would drive the truck due to mileage and diesel cost, as well as, I didn't want to rack the miles on it since it was so nice, so it didn't do me much good other than towing. So if I am going to be driving my $800 Volvo all the time, might as well as step up and get something I have been longing for since they restyled to the C6.

I have a few friends with the C5 Z06s and it is nuts how well they run with just an upgrade to Kumhos, but I just don't like their shape. The C6 is the sexiest Vette to me other than 2nd gens.

Car is on hold this weekend because my machinist buddy is off camping so no machining. I need him to make some bracket spacers for the shocks since my other ones from the Foxes didn't quite match, and he had to modify a couple shock brackets since I am putting them in with a bit different (but better) config than I originally planned. Next weekend hopefully. Then the wheels should show up the following week and I can get to finishing the front suspension.

I will get some pix of the car one of these days - was out at Bandimere Drag Strip today with my buddy's Volvo and off to dinner here. It is dark gray with dark gray wheels, they have to schedule to get the silver stripes on the fenders, and had two tone leather wrapped light/dark gray interior.

looks like the top car on this site but with silver instead of red in the trim package.
http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2010/index.shtml

Now you can get all the suspension measurements you need from your daily driver. Great. Yes the C6 is the sexiest Vette built. Great looking cars. Drivetrain is awesome. Interior still feels chintzy. Cam, headers, tune and exhaust and your car will gain 100+hp.

http://www.harrop.com.au/root_folder/super...00_ve_g8gt.html

a couple years away but likely the path I will take. I had a 2004 Ford Lightning pickup and thought I liked superchargers before I had that truck... after having it I am thoroughly convinced a twin screw roots SC is the only way to go. Absolutely instant boost, flat boost curve and always at max boost. And maintains all drive-ability and I have to admit, this Vette really rides nicely. Not a Caddy by any means but if you rode in my F250 it was harsher than this car and won't pull a G in a turn.

I have seen 0.9Gs so far as I continue to get used to it, on my way to work today.

If you're only going to make only one trip to California, then come and run Laguna or Infineon. If I had to choose just one, it would probably be ......ahh, can't make up my mind, both are just great.

At Laguna, driving your Beast from 4 through 5 and up the hill through 6 and to 7 (corkscrew) will be about as much fun as you can have while alive.

Likewise just getting around Infineon is a thrill.

BTW you can get great deals on diesel pickups out here now. The great thing about diesels is that they run down the road at 70 turning over 2K, the engines last forever.

And if the towing gets way expensive, just bring the new Vette.

...If you can find a sanctioning body that will let you run a non-Porsche engine (iffy with PCA) and if you can muffle it down under 92 dBA...

when I lived out there in SoCal I always wanted to run LSeca, would go there for the historics to watch, etc but never found a way to actually get the car on the track. As A..A says, it seemed like I needed to find a club that would let me run with them and I couldn't at the time, nor would I meet that dB rating.

Infineon would be awesome but the walls freak me out And a friend met the tire barrier there one time.

As for diesel trucks going for cheap money, I agree with you, and when the dealership came way up on my trade in value I just couldn't walk away! I got more for my truck than I expected, tho' wouldn't argue with it as I took crazy good care of it like all of my cars, so I always have clean/straight vehicles. I won't be surprised if they get their money out of it, but I doubt much more than that unless they find a fish to fry.

Older trucks are so cheap that when Uhaul and the like becomes a total PITA I will be setting aside some $$ and in a couple of years pick up a good, used F250 from back in the 90s, throw cheap liability insurance on it and use it to tow. For now, renting a Uhaul should be about the same for a few track days as insurance and maintenance would be for a year on a pickup, so we'll see if it works out or not. Until I deal with jumping thru those hoops I won't know whether I like my latest idea or not

Yeah, Laguna is huge fun! Sears Point (still can't get used to saying "Infineon") lacks run off areas, so any off track "event" will likely end with a damaged racecar if you don't also get hurt in the process.

Andys

funny, as soon as I shot pix last Monday the site went offline I'm bad luck! Anyway, some shots of the Grand Sport.

I drove it to work last Monday and apparently birds are haters - I parked, came out just around lunch to go to a meeting in another building and there was crap on the rear fender, no trees in sight, etc. Then I go back after the meeting and at the other building one dive bombed the gas cap right about the same spot! No trees, etc in sight! Haters hahaha.

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got lucky as this one had the full 4LT leather wrapped interior including the dash, etc so the blend of the two tones in the interior is much nicer than the black with rather light silver inserts. The dark grey with light grey looks better IMO.

complete with great closeup of the dive bombing...
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Time for a tune, cam and exhaust. Get with it. I can't believe you haven't already done that.

The plan is to keep it stock for the warranty period, then add a supercharger and tune for E85. We'll see if I last the five years of the warranty or if I do it sooner!

I really like the drive-ability of the LS3 and generally am okay with the 430HP it has currently. I may convert to E85 before the warranty period is up, but it voids the warranty...

Friend of mine has an LS3 Vette. With a cam change and E85 tune it put out over 500 rwhp. Definitely a capable package.

Hit Bandimere last night for Wed Night Test and Tune... It ran 103mph at a mile high altitude and 88-90deg weather. Times varied from 14.25 to around 14.45 with horrible 60ft times - the car will spin the tires, the worst run felt like a bit of wheel hop in the rear actually, and traction control didn't seem to make a difference as I tried it with and without. Also, of course, it is a stick so I lose time to that not slamming gears.

Should be 13.70s at that mph, but it was nice to see a car that would run that mph at this altitude. That said, the need for more HP is already raring its ugly head There was a supercharged Lingenfelter Camaro out there running in the upper 12s (he was on pump gas which is beyond me with all the E85 around CO) and a whole bunch of stockers that were slower than the Vette with the LS3, so I am seeing a pretty easy move to 12s...

On topic again, finally, machinist is on the way with some parts too so I can get progress rolling again! Here in a few minutes. Got an email from UPS too that the wheels should be in my hands on Monday, so after I get the last of this stuff mocked up, I can get the wheels handled next week and hopefully next weekend get close to finished with all mockup work and be ready to weld all the bracketry up.

'Course the best laid plans thing will kick in so it will longer instead of two weeks to finalize but at least it appears I can get rolling again!

Tim,

I agree! The intake manifold/supercharger is a fantastic way to go!

BTW: about the comment about chintcy interior: who can look at the interior while going that fast?? I like flat black everything on the interior so the Driver is not distracted.....Ijust MHO.

Terry

Interior? Hmmm, the last few years, I've looked at interiors as how easily they come out, and how much weight it'll save without.

You should also consider Thunderhill Raceway. It's a seriously fun track that rewards big powered cars.

I won't be removing interior from the Vette. I agree that the stockers are chintzy feeling, but I have to admit the 4LT leather wrapped dash and door panels, etc actually makes it pretty nice inside. And the two tone gray v. all black or black and silver gives it a bit more of an appeal, makes it seem a bit more Euro/upscale.

It's really comfortable too. I had to commute to another facility that is 40 miles away on Wed and felt great. Normally I get fidgety in virtually any car seat within a half an hour. Great news is it got 29 mpg on the freeway! Seems to get about 19 around town when I drive it "normal", and 13-16 when I drive it like I consider "normal"

was taking some pix of my Kodiak wheels and grabbed a quick (blurry so too quick apparently) shot of the front wheels from CCW. I prefer the look of the Kodiak centers since the satin finish matched the paint really well v. the rough/flat centers here, but the backspace as you can see is really deep now with the widened front suspension.

To be honest, I thought the big backspace was going to look hideous, but John did a good job and they really don't look that bad to me in terms of front wheel lip. Certainly better than I expected so at least the car won't look ugly, as well as have much less scrub radius now (1.5" v. 5" before!!!). I will get better shots once tires are on, I can mock em up on the car and show how it will look when installed.

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Hey Tim,

SEXY WHEELS! They look great and appear to spaced perfectly.

Best,
Terry

Nice choice, a real beauty.

Thanks Randal, so far the color combo has been a hit with friends, etc!

Stew (and everyone else) - mocked the wheels on the rear as well, they fit great too but took the fender back off to just show how wide the wheels really are on this car Really puts it in perspective without the tires mounted...

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better shot of front, but I suspect my batteries are getting low since all are slightly blurred. Note the other front is in the background to get a feel for width again.

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too much crap in the way - garage is tight with all this stuff going on!

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5 inches???? Good grief.
It'll feel like power steering now.

So I hope! Actually it was probably closer to 4" given the angle of strut KPI, etc, but yeah, it should turn real nice like

bit of a hiatus since my friend took a new job June 1st = good for him, bad for me because it is a more "legit" job where he can't use the tools on his own time, so I have to wait 'til he can sneak into his friend's shop on a Sat. So the A-arm shock mounts took 2 hrs to do the work but almost a month to get the Saturday shop time

Anyway, front arms are pocketed for the shock to fit down into and the rears are single shear to clear the drive axles.

Shock bolt holes are reamed so they are really tight fit and the smooth shank at the shock to A interface makes for plenty of shear area. Takes me about 10 minutes and a lot of cussing to get the fronts slid down in with the spacers, everything is exactly 1" so zero tolerance fit which is good for load transfer but bad for assembly.

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some are hard to see, but suffice it to say it is the proverbial 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag... there is a reason why Porsche uses struts for packaging the front end.

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next item on the list is to measure the actual motion ratios now to see how bad it is... it will be like most old Chevy's I suppose with about a 2:1 length ratio which makes for a 4:1 swap in the spring rates. Will need big rates going forward, probably in the 1500lb/in range in the rear for instance v. 550lbs now (will go slightly softer in overall wheel rate with the new shocks per Penske's direction)

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Are those the new wheels Tim? Bet they look nice on the car!

With good suspension I dont think we can call this a 914 anymore?

Randal - yep the new wheels. Same size as the Kodiaks basically and they look good, but have to admit, the smooth semi-gloss finish of the Kodiaks fit the paint scheme better. The CCWs are a rough and dull finish... looks good but a noticeable contrast to the semi-gloss black right by it on the fenders.

Grant - yeah, calling it a 914 is a bit of a farce for a couple of years now hahaha. Tube chassis race car with a chunk of 914 body... 'course the VIN on that chunk still registers the car as a 914

BTW, just to keep everyone up to speed on what I am essentially doing with the suspension I am mostly copying what the new Vettes use, except roll centers are driven a bit by what I could attach to on the existing tube chassis. Keep in mind the front geometry in terms of KPI and caster are almost exactly the same between an old 911/914 and the new Vettes.

So on the new Vettes the shocks are attached "centered" in the A on the front like I did with the pocket and then they use the outside of the front edge to mount the rears to clear the drive axles, so there is a bit of method to my madness if anyone is questioning the single shear rear concept. 1/2" bolt can take more force than the coil over would so I would have to bottom the car out to get anywhere near enough force in the spring to break that bolt.

Now, yes, Vettes use a single leaf spring spanning the car front and rear, but tons of racers are converting to coilovers and just replacing the shocks, so I have no worries about the rear suspension.

Figure I would answer the question before I got it My new Grand Sport is setup this way and I pulled over 1G the other day in an industrial parking lot - had the same thing happen as JP showed in another thread where the cars were leaving the ground in an AX - I hit a bump mid corner and put the whole rear end in the air for sure - car stepped out a few inches but then latched right onto the ground and I stayed in the throttle. Love this new Vette with the traction control turned off, so fricken fast for a street car. UNDRIVEABLE with the TC on actually, damn near a dangerous oversteer has happened a couple of time to me with it left on, so I just have to remember to shut it off when I fire it up. Talked to a local Vette racer and driving instructor and he agreed with TC they are a nightmare oddly enough and very neutral and fast with it off.

Just for completeness - as I'm sure you know - in the worst-case scenario you have not only the spring rate to deal with but the full-jounce damper rate too. The damper instantaneous resistance can be about 3X the spring rate if I recall what Carroll Smith observed so many years ago...

But I agree, without consulting any strength-of-materials references, 1/2" oughtta be enough...

A 1/2" bolt, at the shank (I don't have threads in shear here) is good for at least 13,000 lbs in single shear at ultimate failure. If one corner of my car experiences 13,000 lbs of reaction force in the spring, I am pretty much FUBAR'd Keep in mind static 1G weight on the corner is around 825 lbs on this car in the rear, so that means I need to see 15 Gs of reaction force at that corner to create that load.

Other than a Thelma and Louise move, I doubt I would see that

Additionally, the nice thing about steel bolts is they tend to yield for a long time (ductile) before you actually fail at Grade 8 and below, so I would see signs of yielding doing my typical inspection before a track day long before failure as well. Even so, to yield the bolt would require crushing the corner with weight.

Tim,

Great to see some progress, photo's, etc. Got any intention to "pretty-up" the lower A arms? Perhaps some outside corner radii or ball end milled reliefs? I know it won't gain you anything; just thought I'd ask.
Got an ETA for when you think you'll hit the track?

Terry signed up fo a track day to do some more chassis tuning; SOW in late August!! Sure to be brutally hot (and to think I used to race in those conditions!).

Andys

Nah, no intentions of doing anything else to the A-arms. I am hoping that I can hit the track some time in Sept at this point - my window of opportunity tightened up during July and Aug with work and a vacation 1st week of Aug, so I knew if I didn't hit it by June it would jump to Sept. Also, as you note, blistering Aug temps won't be much fun, so Sept should have better weather too.

My latest setback has been I had to go 1/2" wider on the wheels to get the lower weight inner barrels CCW had in stock... that 1/2" is inward of course and really tightened up where I can run the upper A arm around the shock/spring package, so I am now going to try to relocate the upper mounting of the shock and angle it over more to make that work... may have to send the shocks back for the next longer body. When I say everything is tight up front, it really is on this car so losing that 1/2" means I have to find it again somewhere else.

If work and weather holds (no rain) I am taking the Vette out this Friday AM to get a track fix That should hold me 'til Sept.

Hit the track this AM in the Grand Sport - once I figured out how to get ALL of the traction control shit turned off the car is an absolute blast to drive. I was chewing up other Vettes and quite a few cars with AC blasting Once I lowered the tire pressures down to 35psi hot the run flats stuck pretty well. The tires howled pretty much the whole time I was on the track of course

The Porsche is still a more fun car honestly, but man, the Vette isn't that far behind. One thing I can say is it is pretty easy to drive, which could easily equate to slower times, but it is an easy car to drive. I hit 125-130 in the front stretch out here and the Porsche is more like 145 typically so there is a definite difference in speed on the 914.

Saw a Formula 5000 out there with front upper A arms in a configuration I began considering for my car to get around the shocks, so that pretty much has convinced me to run the upper As backward to what I had planned. That means I need to cut the inner fenders out and add a couple bars to the car to get pickup points where I need them for the rearward upper link, etc. That won't happen this weekend and my vacation starts next weekend, etc, may be lucky to have this car done by Sept but will keep progress posted as I make it.

Tim,

I don't know, I'm beginning to worry about you: I think you are being SEDUCED by the "Vette Side." Does the jealousy show? I just wish I could run some laps in a Grand Sport!! It's has to be a great ride!

Good luck on getting your suspension design working. I'll be waiting for your next installment & be sure to send photos.

Best,
Terry

While there is no doubt I will track the Vette here and there, the Porsche remains the primary track car. I originally bought the Grand Sport to be a collector car but now realize it is an on-going model now, not a limited edition like 1996, and really why I am tracking it at all. If it had been a 1 yr model I would have tracked it at least once, but kept it nice and mint otherwise.

Still, the intent is to race the 914, I just needed a track fix. Been a year now.

Talking to Mike Pettiford, the owner/instructor of Go4It Racing, can be inspiring tho'! He recently had a T1 Grand Sport built and is a superstar driver. He holds the T1 record at the track I was at at 1:54. If I could run 1:54 in my 914 when this is all said and done, I would be really happy. THAT SAID, if I do run 1:54 in the 914 then I know it is fast as hell Mike could seriously get in my car and run easily 5 seconds faster than I ever could... dude won three championships in one season and has over 20 National champtionships, so he can drive, so I would expect to at best break a 2 min lap in the very Vette he ran 1:54.

There is no doubt the 914 is faster than my GS so a much better car. It was already faster with the old suspension.

F5000's are such great cars, but expensive! Sure would be fun to have one of those to do track days and hill climbs. What kind of time was it's turning?

Next thing we know Tim you're going to be buying sticky tires for your new toy and leaving the 914 in the garage. Hate to see you going to the dark side! \

Any video of the vette run?

No vid of the Vette since I don't have any sort of camera mount in it. I won't be tracking that car much at all, no problem with the dark side, that is my good weather "keeper" car.

I dunno the times the F5000 was running but they are fast in general - that driver was an older dude that tends to just F around and not really push that car. With a good driver they are damn fast tho'. Pettiford was out cornering him in a Pontiac Solstice so that should be an indicator how far off real pace that old guy is, the formula only got away in the straights based on shear power to weight.

Having watched a bunch of F1 and F5000 historic races it's simply amazing how great they handle. At Infineon they are still accelerating and shifting around two, where everyone else is shutting down.

One of these days you've got to come out here and run a few of our tracks Tim. We need to see your machine in action.

I think you would have enjoyed seeing this car at the Pre-Historics at Laguna Seca last weekend Tim. You actually have the suspension knowledge to appreciate how this puppy works!

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The guy driving the car was a pretty big fellow. He walked away from the entire field when the race started, I mean he kicked their asses.

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Yeah, that six wheeler is a trippy car for sure. Interesting idea for reducing drag (which IIRC didn't actually do that since the back tires were still same size) that turned into a great idea for braking and contact patch, but clearly F1 wasn't having it and modified the rules to not allow them... have to wonder what a modern F1 would look like if that combo were allowed...

Finally all of my vacations, relatives in town, etc plans are finally thru, so hopefully can get back on the car again. Need to order some chromoly tubing and get that on the way to add in some mounting bars at the front.