Car currently has RSR front struts with custom lower arm setup (sorta like a 935 front end) and the rear is a 5-link setup that is much like any old school 60s-80s open wheel car, GT-40, etc all attached to my tube chassis setup.

Decided I wanted to lower the car more and fix a couple issues with the rear 5-link geom so I started laying out some parts, then decided F it, time for a whole new update I can't leave anything alone.

So I measured various available pickup points on the current chassis and whipped up this stuff in Pro/Engineer. The lower A is already a bit different than I have assembled in here, but close enough for convo - and JP was asking to see what I have going - I am sure so he can raz me about whether or not I actually win at DEs

I used Pro to lay out the geometry so I could measure camber gain, get zero toe positions for the toe link (which will be adjustable in case I want to put some bumpsteer into the rear), RC height and motion, etc.
Click to view attachment

Is this perfectly optimal on all points? Hell no, but much better than what I have and works with existing structure - I am not about to really hack into this car. I can get tabs waterjet cut and welded into place, but not bending/notching tubes in my near future. Besides, it leaves me a little bit of excuse for why I am slow on the track cuz it certainly isn't my driving abilities hahaha

So here is the rear design - it will be built using the stock trailing arm cut down to not much more than a bearing carrier. yeah, yeah, use this other thing, make that, blah blah - the stock rear bearing assy has worked for a few years now so it is fine. I intend to replace that big bearing every few years regardless of upright used anyways.
Click to view attachment

I did the same layout stuff for the front and even am going to be able to use the exact same billet lower A front and rear so that is nice. I can have them waterjetted for about $170 each including the 1.5" plate material, so not bad at all.
Click to view attachment

I bought a couple front strut housings from Carquip last week and had my machinist buddy endmill out that monster weld so gonna work on getting them apart down to the stock knuckle, then I have 2" diam chromoly I just got yesterday that I will have him machine down to make the front "upright". Note the two surface colors in the above image - the blue is turned down to fit in the knuckle (50mm) and the green is the stock 2" diam of the tubing - that ridge will be used to exactly place the tube relative to the knuckle so I get both spindles left to right in the exact same spot.

The upper forward link will be made on the fly so I didn't bother modeling it. I need to get this stuff in the car with the right pickup points placed, then place some dual adjustable coil over assys which might be tough on the front, then build the forward link around the shock assy. At some point you stop fisting the design and just build it

Being a structural analyst I also have access to finite element code so I fully analyzed the lower A designs (I have 5 of 'em now hahaha) to make sure they are structurally sufficient. If I get off track in a big way I will likely bend them, but that you can't design for without having a 10lb A arm. These are just over 5 lbs per the modeling software.

I see. What about the angle of the dangle?

that is something I hold constant - low and to the left and just design around it

Purdy!

It looks like you have set up to get some decent scrub radius with a wide wheel from that design. Going with a cantilevered shock/spring?

Looks like a DE winner to me.

Tell me about the RSR struts, especially if they're about to be surplus...

(2,8 RSR clone/homage in progress...)

I would really love to move the spring combo inboard but unfortunately I can't in the rear, and since I want to keep the front and rear as identical as possible (so I don't have to carry so many spares, would only need one shock for any corner), I am going with a normal setup with the assy attached to the lower A.

I am gonna RULE at DE events JP
they were bought new from Pelican, are the yellow ones with the better valving and the 19mm lowered spindle. The stock RSRs are the green ones - suffice it to say everyone uses the yellow ones - yellow is faster Here is a couple links to see what they are - Patrick uses them on pretty much all of the customer stuff in their photo album so I will use his site as an example, and Pelican where I bought 'em when I lived about 5 blocks from their shop

http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/1070/
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearc...r=VE3-61017-M12

I have had them for five years but they have limited track time (one year of that was while I built the tube chassis for example) on them so they are for all intents and purposes like new. Interested?

oh yeah - thanks Andy

Let's say I'm not interested at Patrick pricing ;-) ...

If you're dealing I'm interested.

Neither picture/source looks like the steering arm has been modified to compensate for the spindle - Do you use a bump-steer extended tie rod end, or is there a bend I'm not seeing?

Pelican lists two valving options - 220/100 and 161/160 - do you know which you've got? I have a set of RSR-spec inserts I had been planning on using but I'd have to go look at my notes to verify the valving numbers - they're not on the box anywhere I could see, although the part numbers are...

It almost looks like those are coilover struts - yes? I hadn't thought the 2,8's used coilovers but a quick check of Grüber's ,,Carrera RS'' book shows that they did, in a 'supplemental' role... Do you have the 'supplemental' coilovers? I'm sure the factory titanium springs are right out of my price range tho ...

I'm in no panic hurry to make this deal so take your time and think on what it'd take for you to part with them. PM or email me if you want.

Tim,

Nice work. Any issues with roll steer on that rear design? I'm sure you already checked it out, but thought I'd ask. Keep the good stuff coming!

Andys

The angle and length I have set up in the design for the rear toe links is set at nominal zero roll steer. They will be adjustable up/down at the upright in case I want to tune in some roll steer depending on how the car is acting on the track. Everything is adjustable with this other than RC - that I can only mess with ride height but can't move the inner tie points. I have too much other stuff in the way on the rear to make that adjustable.

Art... it is late here just checking emails - I will work on a response for you tomorrow or Sat. There is a fair amount of history to cover to explain to you the difference between the two sets available but if I take time to explain it you will understand what you want. Short answer is I have the better 220/100 set.

so the whole coil over thing with the RSRs started because they couldn't get a stiff enough torsion rate so they added helper springs in parallel with the torsion bars to get a higher spring rate (the spring rates add when in parallel).

So the original RSRs had lower rate springs than you would run in a strictly coil-over setup, which is what everyone does now. Because of this, the rebound rating on the stock RSR is too low and also the compression was somewhat high (the 161/160 values) which is more of a question of dynamic roll, etc.

Anyway, Bilstein came up with the set that I have, and pretty much everyone uses now, which has the spindle lowered (for lower ride height without having to F up the lower A arm geom on the front) and has the better valving for working with higher rate springs. The better rebound value helps to control the higher rate spring while the lower compression lets the higher rate spring do its job.

That is as I understand it

I was plenty happy with the RSR struts but I really want to get my car low to the ground, so I either put them thru the hood or go dual A. Also, I am going to go to double adj shock valving and in case you aren't aware, those puppies are MONEY so I would rather just build a dual A and use "universal" shocks I can buy for much much less off the shelf.

If you are looking to have a good setup with fully adjustable ride height front and rear (you can buy rear adj height coilovers easily thru Bilstein, etc) and can corner balance the car, the RSRs are a great way to go for the money.

Art... I will PM you about my parting price and so forth.

Yes, because the FIA let them run coilovers but made them keep the torsion bars. When the 935's entered Group 5 they were free to finally pitch the torsion bars and run a full coilover suspension.


no rear adjustable coilovers for 911 AFAIK ;-)

but it's OK - I am not building a true competition car - I am building a 'period-correct' 2,8 RSR without going crazy overboard trying to convince myself or anyone else that it is authentic. I don't mind a slight uprate here or there (i.e. front coilover rate) but I'm not building a car like we'd build it now, I'm building a car like I remember them. And I'll be glad to enjoy it like that, period-correct warts and all.

I know you can get slip on threaded sleeves that fit over stock 91 rear shocks so you can easily upgrade to that in the rear... in fact, if you are doing simple upgrades here and there that is something you should definitely do IMO, and then in conjunction with the front RSRs you have a fully tuneable suspension for ride height and corner balancing, etc for the track.

If it doesn't look like something they had in 1973 it's probably not going on.
But 911's have had adjustable spring plates for a long time (not quite 1973...) but it is a very subtle modification to the spring plate. Coilovers in back would be a big (visual) change but I'm OK with the spring plate mod. So I'm covered for height and corner balance.

Rebel has the RSR strut much cheaper than Patrick.

Everybody has stuff cheaper than Patrick ;-)

You go there for the one-stop-shopping, or because you know they'll have what you need when some of the low-margin guys are outta stock when you really, really need something.

There's some stuff I see on their site I want, but I'll sure look for it elsewhere first...

Hey Tim,

I'm with Andy: great design job. I know you've been working on it for quite a while.

The question I have is WHEN do you expect to get the new design in the car for the next track day? Has spring come to Colorado yet?

Terry

Spring in CO is a bit of a farce really - now is about the time we really start getting winter It was damn near 80 just three days ago, had a bit of snow last night, will warm back up, then who knows.

Last year in April I started a basement remodel since I thought it would be a good time to haul lumber in and out - we got 14" of snow the very next Saturday and I had a trailer full of wood. Two weeks later another big snow, so you really don't put any faith in the weather here, or least I don't, 'til sometime in May

All that said, I have the quote at the waterjet company being updated and hopefully have an answer on Monday - they called today and were a bit backed up so I told 'em Mon is fine. I am having every tab, bracket etc custom cut so I get everything exactly right - notice that every tab has a flat section on it that is parallel to ground so when I get the car up on stands I will set it perfectly level by shimming - then when I place the tabs I can just get them exactly level and the placement should be more accurate than a tape measure tho' I will of course double check the measurements before final welding. If I tell 'em to cut I should have everything pretty quickly - it will take them more time to source the material than to actually cut it as it goes so quickly once programmed.

The machinist that I am working with does it as side work at his job on the weekends and, unfortunately now that I am finally ready to go, his job has overtime work for the last two and next two weekends, so he has to do that. I am hoping to have most of the stuff to get started by the end of this month, if all goes well maybe be on the track in May when I can somewhat trust the weather.

Have you looked at the 928 front uprights. They are cheap, already have good parts on them and easy to work with. I am going to use a pair to design my front suspension around. They save me a bunch of fab work. They use 5x130 hubs, 3.5in caliper spacing or even the late style Brembo mounts. Wheel bearings and other parts are easy to find and heavy duty enough for a 3400lb car. Beats redesigning the wheel.

Rest looks good.

looked at 'em - what I couldn't get good clarification on was whether I could use my 930 Brembo setup and floating rotors with them but it seemed like "no". So since I already have so much stuff based on bolting to the RSR struts that I have, it was easier for me to make an upright from the spindles. If I were starting from scratch on brakes and so forth, yeah, they would be really easy to work with and agree that you should try and make that work instead.

That said, I forgot to snap pix but I have two spindles off the strut tubes as of yesterday - just had to drill out the spot weld and press the tubes out (it took 7,000 lbs on the hyd press gauge to press the strut tube out!!) so I now have two nice spindles and the .188" wall 2" diam chromoly tube showed up last week, so my machinist is turning that down to ~ 50mm OD (takes .030" off the diam) and we are going to use a light press fit to ensure structural integrity and I will be welding them as well.

Tom at Carquip in Boulder here has been super nice to work with (where I bought the used 911 struts) and even ran the spindles over his hone to true up the strut tube diameter, so they are looking really good.

The stock strut tube wall thickness was around 0.140" and the new upright wall is 0.158", so structurally pretty similar and should be essentially impossible to bend - if I bend it I have MUCH bigger issues

Ooooh!

I went looking through McMaster last week looking for tube that size and they had nada.

Can you get me a pointer to your source?
Or would you like to sell 30" if you've got it to spare?

I need a tubular drift that size to press parts onto a Titan axle.
So Chromoly is _really_ overkill - I'd be happy with just about any ol' alloy that can take the specified ~7000 lbs in compression...

Lemme know...
Thanks !

McMaster-Carr was my only source I could find for 0.188"wall so odd you can't find it.

That said, two options are this:

1. Go to McM website http://www.mcmaster.com and search this PN 89955K6 and that is the only way you can get it, in the 72" length!!! So you see where I am going with this...

2. I can sell you half of mine I had to buy the 72" length - since that is all they carry and they won't cut cuz I asked

I have need for less than half of it (I am making two uprights + 1 spare setup in case I screw up one side like spin a bearing on the spindle, etc, I can just get a spindle and have a backup tube to press in and weld). Each of my uprights is about 8" long so I need 24" + cut so about 30" myself, meaning I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 40" left over so we can work it out. Can ship it with the struts so that should help there too If you need it sooner than the struts, we can work it. I will simply pro-rate the length to the price so 30"/72" * $104 = $43.33 + shipping.

PM me if you want to work specifics. The 30"pc should weigh about 10 lbs and I have the round tube shipping crate still so I can cut it down to 30" and ship it to you separate if you need it ASAP. I have your zip so I can figure shipping out if you are interested.

Slow your roll there guys. McMaster is steep for tubing especially in small lots. All you will ever need is available from these guys:

www.speedymetals.com

Here is the tubing you needed:
http://www.speedymetals.com/ps-3526-204-2-...steel-tube.aspx

So you paid 104$ for the tubing? Ouch.

BTW I will be back out in Denver in May. I'll holler at you. Call me next time you need materials.

yeah, that is DOM and I couldn't find 4130 - it seems that neither they nor onlinemetals.com had it in 4130 at 0.188" wall, so I was sorta stuck. Places had 0.120" wall but I wanted to start thick walled since I was cutting the OD down to a metric size, leaving ~0.150" wall after that.

Yeah, you get out here in May gimme a call for sure! You may show up for a beer and find that you will have plenty of welding to do with the other free hand hahaha.

that tubing will work for me, because my need is not structural; that's 1020.
36" of 1020 is $22. I haven't priced shipping. I'm inclined to help Tim defray his cost but I need to measure my application dimensions carefully. 0.188" wall is actually a bit smaller ID than I searched for, which is why I didn't find it at McMaster (which is just over the river in NJ and shipping is quick & cheap). This might actually be too tight for my application and I am disinclined to increase the ID of 4130 with only the tools I have...

Tim needs 4130 for his application; I don't see any of the more technical alloys on that site. A search for 4130 just turns up flat strip.

http://secure.chassisshop.com/partlist/5918/1/

Those are the go to guys for chromoly. They usually have pretty much everything at decent prices. I don't think he needs Chromoly in that wall thickness, but it is his choice. The car is already sweet.

Tim, drag home TIG machine and I will be happy to fly in and do some welding. Just don't get 4130 Filler rod. If you are building it out of 4130 you need ER70S2 or ER80S2 filler rod. Unless you plan on heat treating the whole thing.

Yet another source.

Wicks Aircraft Supply

Used them during my FSAE days.

Guys,

Aircraft Spruce has .188" wall 2" diameter 4130.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepa...0tubing_un1.php

Tim, you're not going to like machining the OD of chromoly tubing, especially with a light cut (but it's doable). I never researched the reason, but you'll find hard and soft spots along it's length. At least that's been my experience when machining it.

Andys

I have a machinist doing the work so I like it just fine He said he can do it, so I am assuming not a big deal, and he is pretty cheap when he quotes me work.

I have a nice Ford Focus with a burned up trans I have been holding in case I need to put together a commuter car - instead I am just trading him the car for a bunch of work so whatever it takes him, it takes him I have a beater $800 Volvo now for running parts and commuting so the Focus was taking valuable garage space.

I forgot about Aircraft Spruce - when I lived in SoCal I would just drive out to Corona and get stuff from their store all the time (like my wing upright tubing) and recall getting ChroMo from there now, but forgot somehow

BTW, you guys all suck for telling me this AFTER I ordered it

Shoulda called first. HEHE

oh yeah, forgot, I planned to use the ER70 filler My friend Ken has a TIG that I have used over here at the house so I have a nice 50A 220 line in the garage and a TIG at hand. It isn't a Miller or Lincoln but it is good enough to blow holes thru .120-.188 wall stuff

He your the one driving this thing at a high rate of speed and lateral acceleration. Nothing to worry about right?

some updates finally - been pushed back a bit as my machinist buddy was workin' OT the past two weeks, so finally back at it this weekend. He got the front upright stuff pressed together (light press just to ensure everything is perfectly centered to each other) so I can mock stuff up. I don't final weld anything until everything is in place and measured twice. I was just looking and think I can open up the wheelbase another inch without even noticing it, maybe 2" to get a little more stability (tho' pushing the rear back an inch will create more axle angle and what I am trying to get away from so I doubt I will do that).

The front upright with a hub on it and pushed into the wheel. If I chose to I could get new wheel halves and push the hub in even deeper, but frankly, I have to draw the line and say there is some form over function, and I like the look of wheels with a bit of "dish".

This will still be about 3" of scrub, but much better than the 5" I had before! Again, could go with a 1" dish on the wheel v. the 3" dish I have to get down to 1", but those wheels on new cars just look awful.

Click to view attachment
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not perfect and would be nicer to have a taller, up against the wheels upright but the car is what it is and I had to work with the tubing where it is, so it has to be about 2" shorter than I would like just to get all the geom correct and fit in the confines at the front. Close 'nuf for my monkeying around.

A shot of the right side just messing with the caliper (I have to admit I forgot to just test fit the calipers onto the struts originally, after all that work thought it might be good to verify they actually bolt up )

Click to view attachment

just getting started on the rear stuff too, that will be next weekend with the machinist getting him started on cutting all the rect tubing and so forth to build the uprights from. Here is what is left of the rear arm at this point.

Here it is with the "stub" axle - the late model axles have the stub and CV all integrated at the wheel so you can't get them apart and rebuild/regrease them, so instead I had Jason cut it down to a known diam and he is machining chromoly pcs to weld to these as adapters - they are threaded to bolt up stock 930 CVs to so I can have rebuildable CVs inside and out. Also I am pushing the hubs way out so I needed longer axles - this make the stock Carerra axles work instead.

Click to view attachment
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And what I used to use as the "upright" is laying on the floor

Click to view attachment

The water jet place said they should be ready by Friday to have all of my chassis tabs and the A-arms cut out, so hopefully I can get them next Fri, have Jason thread the A-arms for the rod ends and start mocking up next week sometime. Fingers crossed of course.

Hey, some progress.......Looking good!

What are your plans for keeping that bolt locked in place on the front heims?

I had to buy a 10ft. section of 4 3/4" OD X .125 wall EW tubing when I made my trailing arms, so if you need a foot or two for the rear uprights let me know. Making the rears use stock length axles is a good idea; I did mine that way.

Andys

Were it me, I'd go after that 1 inch scrub......looks is not important....tho if it is to you, lengthen the A Arms and go to a wheel with more backspace. You will get much lighter steering. Your wheels are 3 piece, right? You've gone this far, why settle for half assed steering geometry?

I go back and forth on the wheels. I am going to see what the tire temps on the front are like and if they are too hot or significantly hotter than the rears then I will make that the next project (everything is easy to upgrade) on the front. However, on some tracks in circle track racing we would run as much as 3" of scrub to get heat into the tires. Scrub makes steering effort a bit tougher, sure, but it can serve a purpose.

Much moreso than roundy-round stuff, I have a super narrow selection of tires (all available slicks are GT2 category, there is maybe 6 overall slightly different sizes to choose from between GY and Hoosier), so given I am somewhat limited on width selection so I will be driven to finding the correct scrub to get the heat balanced front to rear. Believe it or not I was rather balanced on the 5" scrub, likely as the fronts are only 1" narrower than the rears with a 58% rear weight car, so that is also why I am going to try 3".

On a different note, I have been thinking of getting custom setup double adjustable shocks... BIG money, holy crap, but I also know that shocks setup is a huge factor in lap times and I have put no effort there on this car. Also don't have a budget like SouthWest Tour guys did ($70K min per year) so to have $3500 more in this car in just shocks is getting stupid. Already looking at $1600 for off the shelfs...

So you guys have any recommendations? I am aware of Guy Ankeny but he may be too AX oriented, dunno, but there would certainly be a dynamics difference between AX and road racing. If I lived in SoCal still I would slam dunk it since I am sure he could roll out to Willow Springs or Buttonwillow and help me get a best setup, but in CO, not gonna happen.

If you want to do it on the cheap as a start, you could do some AFCO small body valved to your choice for $100ea, or some revalvable ones for a bit more. I'm thinking shocks will be somewhat down the list when you start the shake-down process and this would get you started. You could buy a few sets and still not be out much money, but then that's just my aw-shucks approach. Of course if you want to spend the bux up front, that's your call.

Andys

Andys

2nd the AFCO recommendation. Damn good shock for the price.
Not sure about the small body vs. large body.

I had large body aluminum 7" stroke double adjustables out back and the car gripped pretty good. Also had a set of PRO Shocks that were equally as good.
Both were user rebuildable / re-valveable.

thanks for the recommendations on shocks - will look into it. I am looking at the Penskes right now as they are available in 2.25" diam which matches all of my current spring sizes. Most other stuff tends to focus on 2.5" included my Foxes on the rear right now - I removed the spring collars and machined 'em down to 2.25" but that is a PITA if you can just buy the right sized stuff.

Picked up all the water jet stuff tonight. They forgot to make 4 tabs that I requested so we will see what happens tomorrow if they will fix that issue or not, but I took everything else in the meantime.

Click to view attachment

Stuff turns out really nice. I had the bolt holes all undersized .005" so I can clean them up with a more exact diam drill to tight fit the bolts - water jet has a 0.010" taper thru 3/16" plate so I didn't want them to wallow out over time. PITA but the holes will be really tight at least with the extra effort. I had the holes cut to get perfect center on them, then just do a slight slight ream.

That a-arm looks heavy. Are you machining some of that material away?

Tim,

How are the A-arms constructed? Will they be boxed and welded or? I never quite gave that a thought when looking at those nice 3D models.

Andys

A-arms are billet, water jet cut from plate. No more light-weighting, with the power the car puts down the analysis shows these good with minimal deflection. They weigh just under 5lbs each so while they look heavy, they really aren't in the grand scheme of things.

The chunk of upright I cut off from before was 12lbs so I am ahead of the game at this point and have a nice, beefy arm.

I could machine them down into more of a T shape (like a Corvette lower for example) and get ~2lbs off of them, but the cost of doing that work exceeds my desire to save a little less than 2lbs...

I don't know if this helps, but I just found it.

http://suspensioncalculator.com/about.html

Just found this little nugget of information as well.

http://www.speed-wiz.com/

You may already be aware of these issues, but I thought it might help.

Smitty

being an engineer I have access to a fair amount of software - if you look at my initial post you will see how the suspension was laid out for the rear as an example. And it was free since I can use my work stuff

I knew you had Pro-E, but I'm not familiar with it.

I have Alibre, so I'll be playing with it.

Lot's of little parts need to be drawn, it would be nice if all the Fasteners, Hiems and stuff were already drawn, I know McMaster has some, but it take hours to get them found and downloaded/converted.

been a couple weeks with no updates... got the rear lower As all tacked into place and tacked the front left corner in, then in my usual fashion, decided to change my mind and called the water jet company to have some new lower A brackets made for the front that are longer. Gonna go ahead and remove more of the scrub and just cough up the extra cash and PITA of new wheel halves... getting them to not leak has been a bit of a challenge so any good ideas for sealant, etc feel free to let me know

Called Kodiak wheels a couple times now to work on getting new front wheel halves and those jackasses are the worst customer service ever other than Kanna Motorsports, still haven't heard back from them tho' I am assured someone will call me back They sucked ass on their customer service when I ordered them (they were good 'til they got me sucked into ever extending lead times and 6-8 weeks became 17 then made me deal with the FedEx claim when they damaged an outer) and this is really what I sadly expected. They must be busy Fing up Fikse since they took them over. Anyway, maybe one of these days I can get some new wheel halves on the way - I am assuming it will take 17 weeks to get 'em as that is what screwed up my initial order so I sorta wanna get that ball rolling.

Been talking to Penske and am pretty much set on getting a full set of their DA 8300s, just needed to predict what my spring rates will be with this setup (calculated suspension frequencies base on new motion ratios) so will be ordering hopefully this week. These seem to be the sh!t and unlike Kodiak the guy I have been talking to at Penske has been pretty cool and decent to work with. Of all the upgrades I could make, I know the shocks are gonna be a great one.

http://www.penskeshocks.com/Sports_Car-For...8300_Series.php

hoping tomorrow to have my machinist buddy call me with more stuff done to get the rear uprights together and get the rear done, but we'll see how far he got today. Spent today stripping turbo axles down, putting inner CVs on both ends with Swepco 101 grease. Will be nice having both ends rebuild-able now with my custom stub axles setup.

So while I have been slow on updates, been busy working on it.

edit - and watching Toto on TV... holy crap that is an awesome group of musicians. Being a teen in the 80s I tended to like a couple of their songs, but gooood lawd I have played guitar for 22 years and can say their guitarist is awesome and having started learning drums this year, drummer is phenomenal too. Funny as my electronic drum set I bought used has a user programmed set that is the Toto drummer

Sounds like you're making great progress, but we need to see pictures! That car is just cool.

Oh, what is the price range on the Penske racing shocks?

Also being an egineer, as well as an engine builder, wanted to get your opinion on this new motor.

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance/809/1...oductId=1277009

I don't think you could build a fully functional, high powered, fuel injection motor for anything close to the price quoted.

The dyno work, if you started from scratch, would be at least two days and you'd need someone who really understood fuel maps, so that alone would be thousands of dollars.

This motor also looks light.

Thanks.