Now show us some pics , please .

Jack / Jaxdream

I'll take some tomorrow.
This is the cooler that I am using (the bigger one with 2 fans):


I was SUPER impressed with the difference in oil temps today. I fully expected to be running at 220, and that would have been good. I was amazed to see myself running no higher then 205 or so, especially on a hot day.

Zach

Very cool... it seems like you are having similar results to mine. I would like to see how you routed the hoses and what you did for a thermostat. We need pictures.
-Rob

Zach, Please don't forget to post some photos of your installation. I want to see that dual fan cooler in place. Thanks.

I will. Grad school classes started up again this week, and this time the class I am taking is a good 70 miles one way from my house, and it is a 3 hour and 45 minute class - after work. Its only 2 days a week, but on those 2 days I don't get home till 11pm. The other days my wife is in classes and I am watching my son. Chances are I will not be able to get pictures until Friday. But I will get them and post them.

Zach

Very impressive installations shown here.
I wonder if I should consider an additional cooler too.

I am building a 2336 engine and intended to use as many stock parts as possible, so the engine seems to be "original" when you look at it.
But will the original oil cooler be able to handle the bigger engine?

I don't get into racing or 2hr rides - just for fun on the street. Ambient temp uses to be 25 to 32°C in summer.

Do I have to install a setup similat to those presented here???

Cheers!
Malte

Malte, I would.

Zach

What size is the oil filter thread? 18 x 1.5? 20 x 1.5? 22 x 1.5?

3/4" x 16

So this?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/25770/10002/-1

or

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/51712/10002/-1

or

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/23693/10002/-1


Thoughts and inputs?

With this kit...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15950/10002/-1

Can I get Setrab anywhere close to this? If so where?

Thanks

Those adapters will all work, but space is tight, both in relation to the engine parts (oil cooler) and the engine mount bar. The second adapter may put the filter down too low, and I don't like the built in thermostat.

I've bought Setrab parts from Livermore Performance. The 119 cooler is the one I've used a few times and it's $160 from them.

yes but $110 more $272 with the fan... are Setrab that much better than Derale if I am just running on street with some autoX?

I have no qualitative analysis. I simply respect the construction quality of the Setrab. Derale may make great coolers, I have no idea.

I'll put pics of mine up tonight. Going to be stupid hot this afternoon (100 and humid - ick) but its going to be the only night this week that I am kidless since Wife and Child are going to the fair.

my issue with this kind of set up:


in the rear of the car is that you get very little airflow back there to start with. With the cooler set parallel to the rear trunk floor, you are going to get even less. When I did mine, I set it perpendicular to the rear trunk floor to make use of all the air going under the car, and it also has fans. You could not do that with a square unit - not enough ground clearance.

With the fans installed, and the mounting kit, the Setrab cooler that Aircooled.net sells is 13" long, 6" wide and 6" deep. Even so, I still had an interesting time finding some place to mount it the way I wanted it mounted.

All told, I spent about $700 on mine including the thermostat, sandwich adapter, fan switch, cooler with fans, 10 ft of AN-8 hose, AN-8 fittings, and the tooling I needed to make the hoses since I was starting from scratch. it was not a cheap project. However, I am getting 20degrees more cooling out of my set up then the folks who did a parallel mount with a square cooler. In my case where I was seeing oil temps ~240, and can now drive all over and never see higher then ~205 when I am really on it, thats huge and i feel the money was well spent.

YMMV

Zach

waiting for the pictures

I added an LED to my oil temp gauge to indicate when the oil cooler fan is on. I drilled the led hole a bit low and the light clips the top of the "220", but I don't think it looks too bad (for having limited tools and doing it by hand).
The needle is capable of clearing the LED if it ever gets that hot and it is hard to see when it is off. I also added a variable resistor the the back of the gauge so I can controll the brightness of the LED. Now my oil cooler project is done.

Click to view attachment

since the oil temps are not getting too hot my oil pressure is staying high. This next picture is on the freeway at 3k rpm. I have been told that the pressure is good and I should be happy, but I guess I need something to worry about because I think it's a bit too high.
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that's nice

Here is a QUICK picture of my setup.


I was chaing the oil in my wife's car, and the 914 was next to it, so I just rolled over and snapped a quick one of the cooler location. Its a cell phone pic. To show more I have to have time to put the car up in the air. I am going to move it slightly to add a little more room away from teh rear suspension, but the general location will not change.

Zach



Zach

Zach
With it mounted like that, do you really need the fans?

that is a 16x6 unit right?

thanks for the picture

Yes, I felt I needed the fans. I was told by a lot of folks (on World and locally) that I would not get enough airflow w/o fans. The fans keep the air moving through the cooler, and it works very well.

Is a 12inch by 6 inch unit. With the fans and the mounting brackets, its 12" long, 7" tall and 6" deep. I am not sure that I needed the brackets with how I mounted it, but the bracket kit came with rubber isolators to I used them.

Zach

Does anyone know how hot it gets in the area above the transmission, say on a 90 degree day? If there's not a lot of air moving, it might get pretty warm. Hard to dissipate a lot of heat from the oil if the area is hot.

My request for more info got buried in a busy day, I'm reposting
thanks,

Fans only help when you're sitting idle in traffic. Whey you are moving, they restrict the flow of air.

I'm not so sure about the fans-restrict-airflow. Seems to me that the cooler itself is a far greater restriction than an idle fan could ever be. You can easily imagine a pressure differential between the inlet and outlet sides of a cooler. But can you really say that a non-powered fan would restrict air flow?

I don't buy it.

If a cooler was mounted on the vehicle in such a way that air would flow through it when the vehicle was moving, the airflow would rotate the fans. They will not be a restriction.

Is a vertical mount like this too exposed to the elements? Water and road debris will ruin the electric fan motor and heat exchanger, no? I don't drive in the rain unless I get caught, but I do drive on gravel and am concerned about dirt kicked up by the front wheels. Front mount requires cutting up my car. Are there better alternatives? I'd like to use the Setrab dual fan unit (16"x6"x6") or a Derale (11"x12"x4"). The Derale would have to be mounted parallel to the trunk floor which is not optimal imo.

Well, lots of cars use electric fans on radiators and they are driven daily in all manner or weather and conditions. I am not worried. I bet the bearings will fail before the motors do.

bottm line is tradisrads mounted his 72 plate cooler horizontally a couple inches below the trunk floor. his oil was at nearly 220F prior to that, with the cooler he got a slight reduction in temps, when teh fan kicked on he sees about 180F oil temps.

###this tell me the fan makes a significant cooling contribution

###this tells me the cooler can be mounted horizontally and give a significatn cooling contribution (and it is out of the way of many road debries)

###this tells me the cooler works fine even in the reported low air flow and high temps found above thre transmission.


bottom line is this system works great. no need to risk debries damage by hanging hte cooler down low in the slip stream. no need to run cooler up front.

this is plenty of cooling for a big bore 2 liter motor.




costs: my 96 plate cooler with fan attached cost $170 from Bugformance, this is the Empi brand cooler.

the Hyaden andwich adaptor with built in thermostat cost about $40 (use the Hayden 205 part number) the Derale thermostate switch for fan about $45, and the hose was $9 a foot for AN 10

all told it was about $350 for my install. could have saved about $100 if I had used regular hose and barbed fitting (the barbed fittins come with the cooler and sandwich adaptors)


so you could potnetially do it for about $250.

Yep - I might just be over-thinking it a bit - everything's a trade-off I guess

realred914 - so what I hear you saying is I can get effective cooling using a horizontally mounted unit - eliminates much of the risk of damage from debris. sounds good - thanks.

now can I get away w/ a horizontal mount and no fan to make it even simpler?

In short, no.

The long answer is a little more complicated.
With a oil cooler you are adding more oil. Natural convection will provide SOME cooling without a fan, since you are putting a big heat sink in the line. But what you are doing is giving yourself more time before your oil heat soaks and you eventually build up to nearly the same temps that you were seeing pre-cooler. If you don't do a lot of long drives, this may be perfectly fine. If your OTs were only marginally high to begin with, the extra surface area may be enough to get you back into the safe zone- especially if you keep your drives to about 40 miles or shorter on hot days.

But, IMHO, unless you are willing to put your cooler in the nose of the car, you need a fan, or you need cool air ducted directly to the cooler, like what Elliot did.

Zach

we found the fan is needed on extended drvies to get to the target temp of 180F. without the fan, we'd hit near 200F -210F an improvement over no cooler, but not good enough. just follow tradisrads project on this post, he has photos of the set up above the transmission, 72 plate cooler with a six inch fan.


stay cool!

Ok. It looks hip to have lots of chrome and stuff hanging off of the motor and for a big motor understandable that more cooling is needed than factory.

For a stock non air conditioned 1.8 daily driver, why an oil cooler??? Didn't the factory put enough oil cooler on the car?

You don't need one, unless you do AX/track.

finally doing my install today of the atomic derale.
anyone have pictures of how they routed the oil lines from the cooler to the sandwhich adapter...

I have heat exchangers and also J tubes....
not a lot of room up there left to put stuff into
- I hate running against the exhaust (heat the oil worse)
- on the other hand, I could squeeze by the valve covers, but future valve adjustments will be impossible or at least harder.
- I'm considering cutting through the tin and into the engine bay, but don't know where to come back down at to clear everything and hit the sandwhich.
- Since the swing arm needs space, I was avoiding it all together, but maybe I can go over it? and then come back from the front?

any pictures of routing from folks (especially with stock heat exhchangers, and the stock -4 engine bar) would be great!

brant

Brant, I hope this will help. Let me know if I can take any other pictures. It a bit of a tight fit, but I thought it was better than running the line next to the exhaust and valve cover. Also there is a "high" point in the lines so the cooler wont drain all of its oil.
-Rob
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awesome
thanks Rob!

nice job
brant

Very smart hose routing

Any pictures near sandwich adapter?

Very smart hose routing

Any pictures near sandwich adapter?

Back on page two there is a picture of the sandwich adapter and the hoses going up into the engine compartment.

I purchased blue hose to do my install with, I like your cloth covered hose better




Matches rest of injection hose better, where did you get that?

The hose is Nylon Braided AN Hose. This hose size is AN10 and was about $10 a foot and I used 8 or 9 feet. I got it local to me at Gotelli Speed Shop. I bet it is available just about any where.

I know that High Performance House has the real Porsche oil hoses; I am using that for my breather hose.. wonder if I could have used it for my oil cooler? it can be seen in one of my pictures it is lighter in color.

$3.20 a foot

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/102231/10002/-1

Brant, I PM'd you some pictures.

Routing the lines through the sheet metal, while clean, is risky even with grommets on all of the sheet metal passages.

Running next to the valve cover is less of a risk (in my opinion) and easier to inspect and/or replace the hoses. They are also plenty far away from the exhaust. The hoses easily pull out of the way to pull the valve covers and adjust the valves.

The hoses are tie wrapped together making them stiff yet not to require any additional support yet flexible enough to allow for movement and expansion.

The picture below is from 2 years ago when I first installed the cooler. The car has since been driven about 10,000 miles and multiple track events with no oil issues.

That is simple and you wont have any rubbing issues with the hose going through the sheet metal, but you don't have heat exchangers and you have more room to work. I am not sure there is a right or wrong way and with preventative maintenance any routing will work.

I agree, heat exchangers will add to the complexity. Your installation is slick!

I also installed a remote cooler on a car with heat exchangers the same way mine is installed but don't have any pics.

I recently started down this same path and the first place I went to research was the "Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum"

Specifically I was hoping to find a description/diagrams and pro/cos for the various solutions: Sandwich to nose, to trunk floor, Full flow (?), other setup ..ect.
But there is no OIL LINE/COOLER INSTALLATION thread there presently

Sooo.... I nominate this one!

It would be nice to merge other Oil related upgrade threads into this one , example:
I recall another thread that detail tapping the case below the OE cooler and required clearancing of motor mount brkt ? What about filter relocation ?
Deep sump, tuna can & dry sump perhaps can go into a separate thread?

What do you think

Great idea! Done!

filter location can be an issue with the sandwhich adaptor used in tradisrads installation. thermostat equiped sandwhich adaptors are kind of tall, and that lowers the oil filter. the stock sized OEM filter is now out of production, but there is a shorter version that is now sold , that will give more clearance with the sandwhich adaptor in place.

for me I will be likely going full flow off the oil filter mounting bracket point on the case. will have two hoses there in and out, then run a remote High Pressure filter and follow that with a plate type cooler simular if not the same as tradisrads. along with an electric fan.


to answer the other question, Yes even stock cars can benifit from an oil cooler, these cars even when new could run hot.

hot climate steep hills can cause oil to get beyond my confmort range (180F is nice, 200 F is hot, and above 220 F it is a probelm as oil pressure wil start to drop (viscosity lowers) beyond this point.

you can see these temps on a hot day.

new oxygenated fuels cause our cars to run hotter (lean burn) since are ecu can not adjust for it (cars with an O2 sensor can adjust and with carbs, you can re-jet)

add that many engiens may have been rebuilt with less than optimal compression, and other engines have dirty cooling fins, and you can get even more high temps.

so yes a stock motor can usually benifit from an external oil cooler. if you see high temps above 220F, then you shoudl consider it (make sure rest of cooling system is in good shape first!)