It's coil-near-plug, but not multispark. AFAIK MegaSquirt doesn't support multispark, but I'm mostly familiar with the MicroSquirt variant.

Multispark mostly helps ignite a mixture that is having trouble igniting. So it helps at low RPM on engines where poor mixture quality may occasional not ignite (low RPM miss). So it won't help with detonation because it's the opposite problem.

I don't know if my engine is truly detonating (auto-ignition). It may not be truly uncontrolled ignition. It may just be that the extremely compressed and volatile air charge doesn't need much timing because it will burn so quickly.

I still have some more parts to acquire for the water injection system. So I may spend some time trying to truly optimize this setup. Looked up the dyno shop in Napa. $125/hour. This may be the best option (duh).

Fixed my fuel sender today. Now I'll know when I run out of gas.

I get my water injection stuff tomorrow.

I should have brought you a gallon of meth on Sunday...

Just to give a little comparison to the level of power, I drove Marks turbo on Monday when I was there, didn't really open it up, but driving around the neighborhood near Marks house it feels a step above my fresh 2056

I'm thinking when he gets it all dialed in it should be at or above a 2270

Nice job Mark

Jeff

Nice job Mark

Mark,
I am thinking all the 1.7 Gold cars should be Turbo-ed.
So when can I send you my engine?
Would love a ride in yours at least!

good work




ps. Here is another original gold car in CA which needs love/turbo:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914...f#ht_500wt_1143

I got a few pieces for my water injection project. I ordered a FloJet pump that works with water (fuel pumps won't work), has a run-dry safety feature and is self regulating so it only runs if the pressure drops.
Click to view attachment

I got the nozzle and pressure hose. The nozzle is sized, so I got the smallest one, and I'll go up if I need to. I hooked it all up on the bench to test and the spray is identical to a patio-mister. I learned from this test that the water keeps spraying quite awhile after the pump turns off. I was originally going to set up the system to power the pump whenever I got boost pressure. But after this test I'm going to order a solenoid valve and keep the pump powered 'full time' and just open the valve under boost. This is where the pressure shutoff on the pump comes in handy.

I'm going to run the pump up in the front trunk, just sitting loosely for now. Since the turbo motor isn't going to be in this car permanently I don't want to drill any holes. I also decided to use the washer bottle as my water/meth reservoir. It wasn't doing anything anyway. I drilled the bottom so I could screw a 1/4" hose barb into the bottom and drilled the cap (it's sealed on a 914/4) to allow air in.
Click to view attachment

I still need to order the solenoid valve and build the nozzle mount then do all the wiring.

A thing to watch for on tear down with water injection with aluminum heads is leaching of the combustion chamber metal. This used to happen with Datsun heads that were water injected until we discovered we were destroying the heads.

Did a little research. Apparently it's not the aluminum itself that corrodes:


for ALUMINUM heads, he said it was bad for NISSAN L-Heads due to their high silicone/copper content. Corvair Aluminum heads do not suffer from it as they are a different alloy than Nissan used, same for VW. Who knows what they used on VG motors? They may be O.K., but L-Motors will turn to cheese if you use it enough, mine did.

Yes that's it, it leaches copper out of the alloy and causes pitting in the combustion chambers. Glad it isn't a problem with the VW head. Inject on!

Why should I be surprised that Datsun used an alloy that wasn't quite up to it. They used some SAE fasteners. I just had to go explain that to the body shop putting the front spoiler on when they couldn't figure out why the turn signals didn't use an M5 or an M6. I said "well, did you try a 10/32?" Huh???

10/32 - 3/8 - 13/64 what a completely idiotic system of measurement. Sorry, side note.

I noticed something potentially interesting. I updated my MicroSquirt to the latest code/firmware (3.83) and it hasn't pinged since then. Could my pinging have been a software problem all along? I added 2 degrees of timing back in under boost. We'll see how that feels when I go for a test drive.

OMG is MicroSquirt a Bill Gates product, buggy and tempermental unless constantly re-connected to the mothership for updates?

Great work McMark! BTW my 914 started right up after sanding all (+) battery connections to remove the coastal rust and corrosion.

Super cool that the turbo is working so well. I was hoping to read that you were going to set it and forget it for 6+ months, drive and abuse it, and keep it as close to simple bolt-onto stock as possible. If you are still planning to add water to your aircooled motor....I can't stop you

Ifn I can't get my engine lid mounts welded locally I will pay you a visit soon!

No pinging on the way to lunch. Addded 2 more degrees on the way back. Got a couple of pings and adjusted those sections. If I have time today, I'm gonna turn up the boost.

Now you can add your water injection and turn up the boost.

Get a boost activated switch and add some methanol to the mix...

Turned up the boost, but I think I have a pressure leak somewhere. Either that or turning the screw didn't have as profound of an effect as I expected. Peak pressure was 6.5psi. I could feel it though.

Figured I should post my config file and a log. Let me know anyone can download and open these. I had to configure the board software to allow these types and I'm not sure it worked right.

I nominate this thread for the prestigious Thread-Of-The-Month award, which I just made up.



Anyone second me?

John

You should be able to get 25psi out of that K03...

It should be highlighted in pink.

^ I've done it





Watching your water injection solution Mark!!

Lemmy test my new coloring a thread admin page ... BRB ...

Or you can use a turbo like this..
Click to view attachment

Oh No! I think Mark just saw his thread turned pink!

Ya can't do it.
Turbo a 914.
can't be done.

So I got to drive the famous 1.7 Turbo today...

First off, it has nice manners. It idles just as you'd like, there is no popping and sputtering. In short, it runs like a stock motor, new from the factory.

It has power something like a 2270. The turbo makes for a pretty quiet exhaust so it doesn't sound racy. It pulls really strong to redline and I didn't hear any pinging...

In short, I'd recommend this motor to anyone who wants stock like mannerism and way more power!

mcmark - what are your thoughts about running a turbo set up like yours - with cis ?

cis: in an effort to avoid the cost of an ECU and the technology curve involved.

like nein14's car (pic below).

I assume the computer interface of MS and similar ECU, has lots of benefit.

I agree too with sirandy, most won't want to open their engines up, though most should, but then there is the cost of head and cylinder work, and more.

I think you have gotten closer than ever before to having an answer to the question "what is the best, low cost, bolt on power increase option?"

It's been 10 yrs since I got the turbo from Evil Ed who was the first to think outside the box Kudos to Ed!!

That being said I made a lot of performance upgrades to improve the original , upgraded larger injectors quicker spooling K26 , cold air intake, 930 WRU, etc.

IMHO it has been very reliable (knock on wood )for power it is the most bang for the buck

two other major out-of-the-box thinker besides evil ed (whose engine I believe is running on nickies $$$) and mcmark - are okieflyr and scotty914

okieflyer's car is ground breaking - vw eng and trans and turbo ...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=85025&hl=

and scotty914 for breaking new ground years ago by installing a suby in a 914.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=34447&hl=

things are never boring around here with you guys constantly coming up with new wild assed ideas

lastly, the excellence article about nein14's car is in my blog.

BOOOOOOOO!

That sucks !!!!!!



Jeff

What's new w this turbo project?
Do you need a different 914 to drop the engine into for additional testing? I can help.
Bummer about the big dent in the front there. That dent shouldn't keep ya off the road entirely.
This was one of my favorite threads

Fixed the hood. Pics on Sunday. Other than that, just driving it and working on the 2.4 six that will eventually go in. I'll also be starting on a new base engine for the 1.7 turbo, which will end up in my Blue Car.

All fixed up. The hood is a crappy one I had laying around. It was stripped of paint already, so I just waxed it to keep it from rusting terribly. Trying to focus on just keeping this car drivable (versus pretty), because I really should be working on getting the blue/black car finished up and ready for paint and reassembly.

Like...

Finally joined the ranks of GoPro owners.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6SlmtzcFKk

I guess the torque band is broader in higher gears with the turbo?

that video hit the spot : )

next time, dry day, 50% more speed : )

treacherous road on a rainy day, very similar to mountain roads in japan, though they become one lane in many spots, got to be prepared to stop. the convex mirrors they strategically place on curves helps a lot.

Oakville Grade? Mayacamus mountain range?

Just a little road right behind the shop. My usual test drive run, although there are cops on it more frequently than you would expect.

I'll be taking some more video this weekend at the autocross.

Is that a laptop bolted to a bracket out of your ashtray?

And it's nice to see your wipers are worse than mine...

We have no roads like that around here.

You need to change your 'here'.

Me too! Just bought one. I'm afraid to drive mine in the rain... Too much power now...

obviously CIS works with a turboed type4.

since a compete set of CIS parts is often less than $500, what is the downside to using CIS vs MS/Link/SDS/Haltech etc?

the upside is a cost saving of $1500 or so it seems to me and no computer to learn/program.

what is so nice about 1.7's and even 1.8's is they are often less than $500.

>> I also wonder how nice it might be to have a suby trans (around $500 + cost of conversion kit) behind a turboed type4 regardless of how spark and fuel is achieved.

with power comparable to a 2270 which I THINK runs about $7k in kit form, a turbo 1.7L or 1.8L with CIS (or even EFI) , is the poor man's cheaper power.

here's a recent ECC 2013 video of CIS on a type4, no turbo yet (type47)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRLyDnp7G_0

The 'downside' is that you miss out on the clever parts of the more advanced systems. They have lots more inputs, and they have a concept of time and history, so they can make decisions based on more information.

CIS/K-jet thinks purely instantaneously; it looks at its inputs (airflow, air density, engine temperature, throttle position) and says "this much fuel". The relationship of the fuel flow to these inputs is not (easily) adjustable, nor is it particularly complex (due to how the sensing is translated into flow adjustment).

If your motor's characteristics match those that the system was designed for, then the system will work as well as it was designed to. If it doesn't, then either you settle for the mismatch, you adjust the few things that are adjustable to try to reduce the error, or you start swapping springs and machining components in an attempt to adjust the 'computation' that the analog system is doing.


By contrast, a software-driven system like MS exposes all this computation in a (relatively) easy-to-adjust format, and it adds additional capabilities that aren't present in the earlier systems. It's designed with the understanding that the ideal relationship between the various sensor readings and fuel flow is not linear, and depends on not just instantaneous inputs but also history (throttle opening rate, accel vs. decel, etc).


To put it in soundbite terms; CIS is 'simpler' because it offers you very little opportunity to fix things that may be wrong with your fuelling.