Mine will be perfect in my eyes.....

That's all that counts.

I hope I'm one of the "cool" customers Jake... I've just done everything you've told me to do!

One thing that has to be kept in mind, when considering the relative value of a Raby engine, is the amount of proprietary technology that goes into one.

I can only speak for the heads, but they have some very specific design details that are not available to the general public. For example: I’ve spent quite a bit of time developing a cnc chamber shape with good burn qualities, while strengthenging the weakest area of the heads. These heads require a complimentary piston to complete the overall reactor shape, which Jake, and Charles of LNEngineering, have development time in, as well.

This unique reactor package is proprietary to Jakes engines.

Hard to peg a value on the hours spent think-tanking these technologies, but I can say that the physical time involved in development is substantial.

Oh, don't be ridiculous Len, everyone on the internet knows you guys aren't special. Why every keyboard jockey can build better heads and engines than you two! And don't forget they all cheaper than yours Too.

It's interesting that no one is talking about th market forces.
Seems to me with the prices continuing to climb, the interest and value associated with a customized engine will continue to decrease in favor of a stock motor, using stock head castings (which will become a "thing") towards the goal of a stock restoration versus a modified car. We have all watched this happen in the 356 market, and it's moving a lot faster in the 914 and early 911 markets.

Rich

That would be more of the case IF the engine couldn't be swapped in a few hours for the original. Another reason I have gone to outright sales only, is because of the amount of people wishing to keep their original core engine, all complete.

Like you said, this happened first with the 356, then the 912, and now the 914. With any of these applications you remove the old stocker, and slide in the Raby engine, and no mods need to be made to the car.

Case in point: My 356C Outlaw
This car uses a CAN based electronics system, and nothing about the car is stock. From the 2012 GT3 RS optional color Grey- Black, to the bright red/ blood red full leather interior. It is fitted with a 230HP Raby 2600cc engine with 52mm IDA Bologna Webers, and direct fire ignition.

Since finishing this car I have turned down 4 offers, all of which were for well over what the 100% bone stock restored car is selling for. This occurred with zero advertisement, and me actually staying that the car is NOT for sale.

Now, I installed this 230HP engine, making 250# of torque without altering the vehicle AT ALL. No changes were made to support the engine, and not a single hole was drilled to facilitate this Raby engine being bolted in. I used existing, factory holes, or holes that were drilled when the car was a race car for 40 years, to mount things, just to prove to my customers that even an engine this crazy can be installed without issue into a 356.Now, for the smarts that wants to say "You did drill a hole to mount the breather box, and the fuel pressure regulator", you are wrong. Both those were already there, and both could have been mounted somewhere else if an engine bay that was 100% factory was a concern.

Here's the proof:
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Now, there's more. Let's talk about this '56 Speedster.. No, its not a freakin Replica, its the real deal. I recently finished a 2270T4 engine fitment into this car, which made 175HP for a long time customer of mine that I have done several 356 conversions for. He actually drives the cars, and has taken his previous 356 to rallies all over the USA and EU, fitted with T4 power. This Speedster also had the entire "conversion" carried out as a bolt in, and zero holes needed to be drilled either.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
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That said, "if you do what you believe is right, rather than what is expected, there will be those who appreciate what you create, and want to share it with you". Thats my favorite Dr. Porsche quote, and its proven hundreds of times to be true in my life of creating things. With cars being so valuable these days people do want them to be stock, BUT there's always the guy out there like me. The guy that does whatever he wants just to piss off the purists. Most of us are smart enough to make the car modified to a point that it can be reversed in the future without too much effort.
Those are the guys who buy these engines, whether their car is a 356, 911, 912 or now a 914. It took longer to see the orders for the crazy 6 cylinders than all the rest, but today my 4.1 (964/993 based) is in higher demand than I even care to build, and all those go into older applications. The last one went into a 904.

I don't give a damn about what the market wants from an engine perspective. There's always enough of the following that wants different, and crazy, to keep us busier than we even want to be. They find us, and they do that with zero advertising on our part.

That's purty.

I think anything Porsche AND aircooled is more valuable.

Porsche was smart using common or near common platforms. Very efficient thing to do.

I'll still take my 914 tough Jake for the rear coilovers instead of the swing axle!

But....through scarcity for the Speedster whomever thought back in the day what they would be worth now...unbelievable.

You finished the Carrera? The red interior is the SH$T. That engine might be the most attractive one I've ever seen. It's almost too good.

Yep.. But, let's keep in mind that in the case of the 914 these engines are NOT conversions. Nothing has to be done to fit the larger engine in these cars at all.

Thats why I believe we are seeing more and more demand for the engines than ever before, in regard to the 914 application.

What's with the goofy red wiring all coiled up Jake? That's temporary right - not final?

Otherwise drop dead gorgeous.

That was an "in work" photo.. It was a power wire that ended up being hidden completely.

[quote name='Jake Raby'
With cars being so valuable these days people do want them to be stock, BUT there's always the guy out there like me. The guy that does whatever he wants just to piss off the purists. Most of us are smart enough to make the car modified to a point that it can be reversed in the future without too much effort.
Those are the guys who buy these engines, whether their car is a 356, 911, 912 or now a 914.




Could not have said it better myself........ while I appreciate old school, 80 hp just isn't going to cut it. If I lived in Georgia I would already have a Raby.
I don't think I am going backwards on my 914, just making the mods that make since.
Back date bumpers
911 brakes and suspension
Removal of the warts
Soon to install FAT Motor............. ....sorry Jake

My comment was not meant as a straight man line.

What the market is doing is becoming much less in volume, or demand, and with that comes a higher price point for a boutique engine, aircooled etc.

The higher volume market is now in water cooled engines, Porsche and Subaru....

Aircooled will always have a market, but like the model A, or more recent flathead fords, the specialists will be fewer in number.

Rich

Have to ask...what electronics? I saw some pictures of a 356 with an InfinityWire system; is this that one?

I admire all those that modify, especially the perfectionists like Raby and Singer.
I'm sooooooooo glad I have no desire to take that road.
100% stock from the factory for me. I want to sleep at night and maintain a fat wallet.

I have enough of a challenge maintaining what I have completely stock, with what's available for parts etc.

If I really want to go faster, I'll just trade up to a faster (usually later model) Porsche. I have faith in the millions of dollars the factory spends, and the countless hours hundreds of very smart engineers come up with. Sure there have been some flubs but I could not do better myself. Yeah, it's boring and certainly less challenging but, that brings me back to the sleep and wallet thing. At this point in my life, the path of least resistance is now the most satisfying.

Excuse me while I grab a few winks - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Dave

Stock is pricey!

I've been lucky with what I bought and when. Of course I didn't buy for any other reason than what I liked or wanted. That being said I hesitated for a 356 and now I'm priced out of the market. You snooze you lose.

Dave

Thanks for sharing a small sample of your collection, very nice - congrats.

Jake, do you still remember how to work on those T53 engines? I always had a life dream of fixing up a UH-1 to charter tourists from Florida to Cuba. If so, what is your going rate to put a Raby touch on the T53s?

I've successfully resisted chiming in. At least until now.

As the owner of business, I applaud what Jake has been able to do: set the brand "standard" in his market. By all accounts, as far as I can tell, he backs up his marketing with an excellent product, and because of that I have no argument with his "self-promotion." Hell, this thread is over 11 pages just about him! One lesson I've learned in business: if you think simply doing a good job is enough to earn you repeat or new business you're wrong. You still have to remind everyone, including your current customers, why you are the best choice. It sucks, but it is true in any market that is even somewhat competitive. And markets don't reward modesty.

Having said that, I'm not sure I'll ever seek to directly buy a Raby engine. Like others here, I like to build things myself. One of my main joys here is simply the process of learning, even if I make mistakes. That's more important to me than just buying HP. I don't think Jake would take the business of an ex-Army guy like me anyway

What I AM hoping to do in the not-too-distant future is buy a bunch of stuff from the Type 4 Store and build a 2270 myself (or try to). I guess that IS a Raby/Hoffman engine in some respects, right?

Wow, this thread has taken some twists and turns...

Its as close as one can get without buying a turnkey. That said, those are proven combinations that have been around for years, which is what one needs when doing something themselves. Its nothing like what we are doing now, though. This is the main reason I am abandoning all the old combinations, even the 2270. No clones will be possible moving forward.

As far as the marketing thing goes.. Well the thread was 9 pages long before I made my first post. I wanted to see what would happen if I said nothing, and I was fairly surprised that it went so well.

Last year when I decided to "tag the line" I pulled all the Google adwords, killed all the banner ads, and wanted to kill the traffic to the site as much as possible, since I had nothing to sell until October 2016 when the new engines would fill someone's shelves. It didn't work... I still received the same amount of inquiries, and the site traffic only fell off by 12% at maximum.

This proved what we already knew, that the majority of our interest is generated by word of mouth. Our purchasers are our best marketing team.

There's no telling what we could do if I actually ran ads and marketed things. We've never needed to, and I think that real products sell themselves. Nothing I hate more than all the false images I see in the Porsche industry.

10-4 on the twists and turns beatnavy.

Although there is much more for me to learn, starting this thread and listening to what the folks have to say has been quite informative and an enlightening.

Hearing everyone's different takes on value, what to do or not do, learning a little history and reading to understand more.....has been great!

Most if not all of us have "normal jobs",families and so on that use up most of our time, which makes these replies reflect how passoniate we are about our cars, what powers them, and we are willing to take a moment and share our differences.

Speaking of differences, there have been many and while the debates have been spirited, everyone has been respectful of each other's differences.

I really enjoyed all the nuances in everyone's posts....who would know Jake liked 235 6 cylinders?

There were many more suprises as well.

Just want to thank you all for putting up with a "newbie"who now knows what a "NARP" is!

This thread alone has proven a lot about engine options, and the state of the market today. 10 years ago this thread would have been a disaster filled with smart remarks, and disrespectful statements.

The fact that it is not that way today tells us a lot about the way things have changed....

Sadly, no one wants to argue with you anymore.

I think everyone here is ok with an argument.

It's just how it is framed and then how it is reacted to.

Many great ideas only get implemented after a lot of give and take.

I'm too old to argue.

Throughout this thread I think I detect a slightly more mellow, less edgy Jake. Good for you, you have done well Pilgram.

Just to clarify, will the 2270 components still be available via the Type IV store going forward?

Impressive that your your current offspring has evolved as a step beyond. Did not think there was that much left.

What I AM hoping to do in the not-too-distant future is buy a bunch of stuff from the Type 4 Store and build a 2270 myself (or try to). I guess that IS a Raby/Hoffman engine in some respects, right?


I love this thread and especially the engine porn!

About 4 years ago, armed with Jake's video, I tore my tired '76 2.0 engine apart. Len Hoffman rebuilt my heads. The Type IV store was closed so I bought another cam. Len said call the Store anyway and get the cam kit. (I think it was the last 9550 as the 9750 was available the next Monday!) With some swivel adjusters from the Classified threads and other rebuild parts I managed to put together a "stock" 2.0 that has 40K miles on it now at 30-35 mpg and plenty of power. Pulling out of a rolling stop in 2nd gear is sweet. Drips a little more than I would like and used 3+ qts of oil on a 4K mile trip last winter...not quite as perfect as I would like, but...

So thanks Jake for your earlier endeavours and good luck with the next step.

Hmmm,.... but I do have another engine that I am contemplating and MAY try to go a little farther with---the first was stock just to keep myself out of trouble---like maybe a 2056. Still WAY behind the present curve but probably just right for me for now. I'm glad your stuff is still available.

Is Jakes video/ DVD still available? If so where?

Thanks

http://type4store.com/type-4-engine-rebuild-dvd.html

Thank you

The T4 Rebuild DVD has sold tens of thousands of copies in the past 7 years. So glad to have been able to help so many of you to assemble your engines!

Ordered the DVD and its on the way......

Now what do I do first? concentrate on the body and start welding/repair?

Or start tearing in to the engine? Work on one activity until completed, or rotate activities every weekend?

I have tried to answer these questions above, and really cannot come up with a reason why one would be first and the other second.

Maybe I'm not thinking about all the possibilities, which should come first...... the engine or the body?

I would start on the body first since it's likely to be more work and work until you're tired of rust. Then work on the engine until you forget how bad the rust is and go back to the body. Repeat. This works for me pretty well.

This thread has got lengthy... You might have stated it earlier, but what state is your car in now? Is it drivable? If not, is that due to engine or structural rust repairs?

For me I like to prioritize must haves versus wants, i.e. what has to be done to get the car on the road, then tackle wants later.

Then I like to estimate the amount of time and money for each project, then multiply that by four or five to get closer to reality! Sometimes I find it's better to tackle the smaller, lower cost projects up front to get the ball rolling and feeling a sense of accomplishment.

But for me mechanicals/safety trump appearance. Also from my experience, mixing too many tasks becomes a mess and leads to a sense of being overwhelmed - always nice to knock tasks off the list and move to the next - once again a sense of accomplishment.

The body. Until you have a solid body, your 914 isn't worth much. Reality is that durring a restoration, you will probably flip back and forth between body and engine, waiting on parts and enthusiasm. Also depends if you hire out the work and if their timeframe is beyond your controle.

10-4 on the body Mep, Just about done taking all but the essentials off three out of the four cars and cataloging/organizing the good, better and best parts.......the intention is to make two good cars out of the four I have. Most if not all the work will be done by Mauh....