The Business End.

Intake port. Having only ever taken apart a type 4 engine it was interesting to see how the port is split into two and how the injector has two outlets at a corresponding angle as well.

-Tony

Awesome pictures man! Keep em comin!

I began the task of undoing the wiring harness tonight. It appears there are basically three sections to it. One that appears to be mostly within the engine bay, one for the dash area and another that I haven't yet figured out. The person who pulled the harness out was good enough to label a bunch of the conectors with what they went to. This was helpful in determining which harness does what (in general). I'm going to have to find a schematic somewhere, but this seems doable. A few conenctors will need replacing and a few wires will need splicing due to a small amount of damage during the acident that killed the car.

Its a bit premature to be doing this, but it looks like its going to be a fairly time consuming task. I believe one of the important things to do is come up with a new schematic for the electrical system of my car, as it appears it will be quite different than stock.

-Tony

Hey tony, don't forget the timing belt is partly shredded. You definitely want to replace that before you put the engine in the car.

I've just noticed something strange: why does the engine have one plastic timing and the other one metal? iirc the early ej25's had dohc with plastic timing gears, but don't know much about the late sohc...

Just a little something for youre informaiton, might give you a few ideas. Keep up the great work.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

Interesting mount. Will you be able to get the shift rod through there?

cannot use stock shifter linkage with TonyC's design...

The car pictured above is now going to use a single turbo with a WRX header I believe, so the front bar might be able to be modified to make room for the shift linkage....

a slight miscommunication between Jon and Tony...opps

Glad to see that someone has information on this converstion as I dont. I just came across the pic's and thought you might be able to make use of them.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Jun 2 2005, 10:06 AM)

Glad to see that someone has information on this converstion as I dont. I just came across the pic's and thought you might be able to make use of them. Regards, Turbo Paul.

I'm freinds with both Tony and Jon (not sure if they'll admit to it in public, hahahaha)

That engine support is nice looking, but there is a definite disadvantage to the design. Fiid has details on why the design is suboptimal here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...%20turbo&st=140

I will be going with a bar more like Scott's which is basically a large U-shaped piece of square tubing that cradles the engine mounts and the arms stick up and bolt to the body near the shock/spring mount.

-Tony

Mueller you have a PM

Regards,

Turbo Paul

do not use the mount that goes off of the stock body mounts, i know of somebody who did this and it broke the bolt to the body mount as soon as it had the engine on it

you have to support the rear of the engine either with a mount like my mine or fiids

For anyone else out there who is doing a conversion I found a very valuable website.

http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/

There's a ton of information there on the Impreza, including pinouts with desriptions for various model year ECUs, wiring diagrams, etc. Essentially all you need is the ECU pinout. From there you could make a harness from scratch if youw wanted to! I'm still planning on modifying the one I have, but this at least tells me which wires to keep and which ones to throw out.

-Tony

check this kit out. porscharu kit

This thread is not dead... I have been working a lot on the wiring harness as well as ordering parts for the engine, and doing some conceptual drawings for the radiator bracket/shroud.

This design is very similar to Scott's radiator shroud/mount but is made entirely from aluminum and bolts on to the car rather than being a weld-in part. It is way more complex and has a lot more parts, and in the end will take about 30 times as long to build. Scott's method is simple and works great, mine is way over engineered, meaning it probably won't work

Here's the first drawing giving an idea of what the thing looks like.

Another drawing to show conceptually how it fits into the engine bay.

Here's some detail of the orange colored bars at the bottom of the shroud. These will be machined form a rectangular bar of aluminum.

Here's the drawing from above with the addition of the plastic air scoop

Some hardware detail of how the scoop is mounted...

spring loaded so that if you hit something it rotates up to help minimize damage??

I have a few more drawings on paper that I did by hand, especially for the mounting of the top of the frame. Basically on each side, on the inside corner of the frame will sit a block of aluminum that will both hold the frame together and have an angled hole through which a bolt will pass, coming through the firewall. There's a standoff that will sit between the firewall and the block.

Another detail. The aluminum sheet metal shrouding will have a rubber gasket around its edge where it meets the firewall. This will be made from either a sliced piece of tubing or some standard material for the purpose.

The only welding for this is two small angle brackets on the vertical section of the firewall. These secure the bottom of the frame to the firewall, and welding is necessary because that section of the firewall is not accesible from inside since its double-walled. If you wanted to hack up the inner lower firewall you could get away without welding. It would probably just be a couple small holes.

One detail I have not yet worked out is the clamp that holds the top of the radiator. Probably won't be too tricky, but I need to wait until I have an actual radiator before doing that.

So anyone around the LA area have a milling machine I could come and use for a good part of a da?


-Tony

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Jun 22 2005, 10:31 AM)

..So anyone around the LA area have a milling machine I could come and use for a good part of a da? -Tony

No.

QUOTE

spring loaded so that if you hit something it rotates up to help minimize damage??

Exactly. It will be such that it can rotate up all the way so that it is flush to the floorpan. I was thinking that a spring _might_ not be necessary if the scooop is heavy enough to stay put at high speed, AND that the bearing point be smooth enough.

-Tony

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Jun 22 2005, 10:33 AM)

QUOTE spring loaded so that if you hit something it rotates up to help minimize damage?? Exactly. It will be such that it can rotate up all the way so that it is flush to the floorpan. I was thinking that a spring _might_ not be necessary if the scooop is heavy enough to stay put at high speed, AND that the bearing point be smooth enough. -Tony

Heavy means inertia which means it won't move easily when struck. I imagine it would slam pretty hard when it reaches the end of its travel also. I thought maybe using something flimsy and with flimsy mounting points so it would tear off if hit hard without damaging anything else.


Andrew

tony that is basicly what i had designed, but here are 2 things for you to consider. one get rid of the fan mount and use the plastic thru core supports, you want the fans as close as you can get them to the radiator ie touching it. also the top of the radiator frame will be touching the firewall so your shrouding will be smaller.

if you want a complete fan set up that should fit perfectly but is not cheap go with this one. from what i saw before it is almost a perfect fit on the suby radiator and it offers very good coverage so you get good flow.

for heat i just found this it looks like is would fit up under the dash if you remove the stock fresh air stuff

this is nice looking

I didn't know that there were fans that mounted to the radiator itself. That definitely seems like the way to go.

As far as the radiator touching the firewall, I have to see how all this fits in the engine bay. I'm sure there will be some adjusting of the design once I have things roughly in place. This is just a first cut at it, nothing is measured. I may end up pushing the mount back towards the engine slightly to get the clearance if I need it, but I'll see when the time comes.

Andrew: I agree. But I also want this thing to be sturdy enough that when I go over speed bumps it doesn't tear it off. I'd like to be able to go over speed bumps (slowly) and have the thing stay intact, move out of the way, and then move back when the bump is over. After time this will wear down the leading edge of the scoop, but maybe I can put a strip of some really hard metal on there, like tungsten or something!!! or not.


-Tony

Put rollers in the lip of the scoop to help preserve it as it is being deflected up. Why not?

You could also pad the end stops of the scoops travel so it doesnt destroy anhting when you run over the piece of tire in the middle of the road.

Verry nice so far

I am not sure that thing needs a grappling hook... I mean a scoop.


M

If you use fans that are powerful enough and alter the scoop a little, could you use your 914 as a streetsweeper for hire to help defray the costs of the conversion?

Andrew

QUOTE

I am not sure that thing needs a grappling hook... I mean a scoop.

Could be. I will drive it without a scoop first and see how it goes. If it ends up getting too hot at high speed I'll put it on. in stop and go traffic, where you'd expect it to heat up the worst, the scoop won't do anything. So we'll see... I'd rather not have it...

-Tony

I don't know if it would try to stall the fans, I'd try to get air from above.. I'd have to do a little testing.. I know the car is a wing back there.

You could sweep streets, and ROCK at autox...





M

I'll toss this thought out.. The 73+ cars had the air deflector flaps on the floorpan, why not use these, or make one that goes the full width of the radiator.

QUOTE (phantom914 @ Jun 22 2005, 11:08 AM)

If you use fans that are powerful enough and alter the scoop a little, could you use your 914 as a streetsweeper for hire to help defray the costs of the conversion? Andrew

lol dude you are my hero. my renegade radiator cools great and will probably not be mistaken for a "street sweeper". for $1000 why not just bolt in something that you know will work?


(best smiley ever!)

QUOTE

lol dude you are my hero. my renegade radiator cools great and will probably not be mistaken for a "street sweeper". for $1000 why not just bolt in something that you know will work?

Wow, I've never been a hero. I guess there's a first time for everything.

I'll give you a multitude of reasons why I'm not going to go with the renegade radiator.

1. I don't want to use my front trunk for a radiator.

2. I don't want to use my front trunk for a radiator.

3. It's exceedingly boring. For $30,000 why not just go buy a WRX STI, because I know that will work. In terms of engineering problems that have been solved in this world, I'm sure this is not up there in the top 100000, but for me it is an interesting project to work on and think about. Buying an off the shelf finished product is not really something I'm interested in.

4. I think its a poor value. I'm sure that its of exceptional quality and all, and that it will enhance the reliability of my car, but I believe it is overpriced. Thats my opinion, valid or not.

5. I can put together a perfectly good cooling system for $300 and put the remaining $700 into things like suspension, etc.

6. A renegade cooling setup is far less likely to inspire jokes.

So thats why...

Tony,

I say ditch the frankenstien looking bolt-together framework and make something with composites

Find a mill yet? no problem using mine if you don't mind the drive

oooooooh composites.

You know, the thought had crossed my mind in the past and it gracefully went the way of "I don't have any idea how to do that, there's a lot to learn so maybe I'll just go with aluminum."

And here you go pushing back towards composites! A carbon fiber radiator housing would be pretty sweet, and I wouldn't even have to use the firewall as part of the shrouding. I could make a mold from wood and styrofoam or STOP!!! Geez. I have to at some point take a stand and limit my technology creep or else I'm going to be into this for 3 years and not have anything on the road. Not that there's anything wrong with that of course

I think for now I'll stick to metal. Mostly because to learn how to do composites and get the equipment necessary would take a lot of time. And then I'd want that nice shiny finish of a vacuum cured part, so I wouldn't be happy with it anyway.

If you try to convince me to go composites, I'm going to try and convince you that you should abandon your Link ECU and go with something else. Or I'll try and get you to join the dark side of the Subaru Swappers Syndicate.

-Tony



afterthought.... This is not a structural piece, would be a great way to learn composites..... hmmm. Somone please stop me.

mike can i use your mill, i have a few things that i need/want to make

and tony just weld the frame together and bolt it in, much time saved and you dont need to worry as much about bolts loosening

Make it out of mahogany.


M

I hope that your radiator works. it is a really cool (no pun intended) idea. and the whole sleeper aspect to the thing is pretty sweet. I have been talking to scott about his radiator and it seems to be working great for him. I would be a little wary of this set up on a turbo motor though, they run pretty hot.

dana FYI his is a na 2.5 as well, although i think he will do some tuner stuff to it

Yup, its a 2.5 N/A. I'm sure that putting in a turbo would heat things up a lot more. It would still be interesting to see if the engine bay cooling would work with a higher HP motor. No one has tried it AFAIK, but maybe with some creative ducting it could be done.

I do plan on at some point, putting in Cobb cams, and custom exhaust, etc. For now though its going to remain pretty much stock. Until I get bugs worked out, etc.

-Tony

mine is a turbo and it is amazing how fast that tiny 2.0 heats up. I blew a fuse to my cooling fans and within about 2 seconds of sitting in traffic things got pretty warmish. now I know to actually pay attention to that volt thing and to use the right fuses.

I met a major milestone in the wiring department this weekend. I stripped down the Subaru harness to minimum and labeled and identified every wire going into the ECU. The result is amazing. The original Subaru harness is now down to probably 5% of what it started out as!

-Tony

that looks like you are mising a few plugs, but i cant see it all very well. dont tape it up too much you will probably have to open it up once to fix something.

all the plugs i can think of are :

brain
2 o2 plugs
3 for engine connection
fuel pump relay
main realy
ignitor
obd connector
purge and pressure switching solinoids ( 2 plugs )
connection to relay board

then loose wires are :
power
ground
speed sensor
temp sensor if you go stock

then you need wires from the alt

WTG! Very nice.

Yes a few things are missing form the picture... The engine harness itself is still on the engine and I believe (though I will have to double check) that the O2 sensors come off of that. The relay connections will be made inside "the box." The OBD connector as well. The ignitor is through the engine harness, as well as the purge valve. I think everything else is acoounted for....

-Tony

Heres the leftovers...


Edit: the black stuff around the wiring is just nylon expando sleeving. Its just there temporarily to keep the wires from going all over the place. I'm nto sure if I will eevn use it in the end, but it just slides off.

And now for the description of "the box." The "box" is going to be a weatherproof aluminum box that will tentatively go in the engine bay, though it could easily go in the passenger compartment if I find it gets too hot.

Anyway, the box will be the main wiring hub for the car. In essence it will replace the relay board and the 914 ECU. It will contain the Subaru ECU, and one or possibly two custom printed circuit boards (PCBs). One will act as an in-between to the engine harness and the ECU and wil contain mostly resistors and other components which simulate the function of elements I'm not using. These include the rear O2 sensor, fuel tank pressure, fuel temp, etc. etc. It will be fairly generic in that it will allow any wiring harness to be used. I will end up making 3 or so of these boards initially. If there is interest from others I can put in orders for more of them later on. The second board will hold the relays, and fuses for the rear part of the car. It too will be somewhat generic. In fact I may end up just buying one of these since there are places that make them already...

"The Box" will also have some status indicators on it for quick troubleshooting. I may also have a second OBD-II connector on the box for easier access while working in the engine bay.

-Tony