Maybe Saturn coupes may have been the last to get the word... <!-- emo&:screwy: --><!-- endemo -->

As I have said before, the "signal" light pods are a unique characteristic of the 914 design. Making them house headlights will give them a higher purpose than signaling and join the modern "smaller" lighting trend. This and using the existing headlight space where the radiators will mount are why I chose this location. Legal? We'll see if they figure it out... <!-- emo&:lol: --><!-- endemo -->

the "rise and fall" of pop-up headlights:

Nip and Tuck...

Voila! Don't worry, they are weather sealed and the fender will be wider, thanks Andrew so they will fit. Just need those clear lenses, Bruce?

Cool. I've been planning on trying to fit projector beams in the turn signal buckets for a while now. Most of the lights I have found were a bit too big to fit... I thought about stretching the bucket. I keep searching for smaller lights (maybe from some of the newer motorcycles)...... haven't found the perfect solution yet. I hope you beat me to it and post your results!!!!

I thought you couldn't cover your headlights with a lense unless it came that way.

Dude - that kicks ass. Keep the picss coming. What was the donor car?

Now THAT really does rock. =-)
Donor vechicle is???

QUOTE (sj914 @ Jul 20 2005, 11:53 PM)

I thought you couldn't cover your headlights with a lense unless it came that way.

QUOTE

Legal? We'll see if they figure it out...

I've done some research...

and there will be more development

QUOTE (Neo914-6 @ Jul 21 2005, 03:10 AM)

QUOTE (sj914 @ Jul 20 2005, 11:53 PM) I thought you couldn't cover your headlights with a lense unless it came that way. QUOTE Legal? We'll see if they figure it out... I've done some research... and there will be more development

That is weak....

Thom

To Two Too 2 Keyule!

QUOTE (sj914 @ Jul 20 2005, 11:53 PM)

I thought you couldn't cover your headlights with a lense unless it came that way.

Don't give up so easily! I'm trying to figure out how to get a March F3000 licenced for the street and you want to give up over headlight covers? You've got to try harder than that.

Step 1: Realization that logic and sanity are not mutually exclusive.


-Ben M. (insane in the membrane...)


ps - Felix - AWESOME stuff!!!

I was thinking of doing this... I had an idea to spray the inside of the pod assy black, and just put a sheet of plexiglas over the front. How are you planning to protect the back of the assembly from road grime? Plexi would not be a lens so it shouldn't be a problem right? It also wouldn't ruin the projection pattern of the HID.

way cool!

like the 914 drawings motortrend did last year...could be cool!

Sweet! Once the design is done I bet you could sell those.

I know a guy locally with a plastic vaccuum mold. We could smooth out the lense and use it as a mold so you'd have all the right contour but no distortion.

What are you planning on doing for front turn signals? I was thinking a small amber LED cluster would still fit nicely in the bucket. How are you rigging up the aim adjustments? Can't wait to see them in the car!

Ahh...

Add me to the list of foks planning that same mod.
Happy to see someone else making some progress.
Looks very nice so far.
So what was the source for those HIDs?

Mike,

That sounds great, I considered forming new lenses. My plan is to have the original lenses modified so I can keep the original shape and seal. A fellow member is experimenting with filling in the "flutes" and maybe mold crystal clear lenses. I was going to dremel the features but that takes some skill and a good eye. I've seen how "craftsman" fix distored jet plane canopies under an optical grid. "Clear enough" is good for this application.

Y'all might want to try PIAA x1100's, the bodies might be smaller. I was going to use them but want to stick with as much German or OEM parts as I can. The Hellas DE Xenon are aftermarket, fully sealed ,and designed for "new" applications. Not cheap but I'll bet you can find similar parts in several German sedans. A production version or kit is always possible, just not in the schedule yet.

I was thinking saw off the seal and use the new vac molded piece over it.

I hate to be a wet blanket.. but how are you going to keep the factory 914 clear lenses from melting?????

It will be cool looking if it works!!!!

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 21 2005, 10:59 AM)

I hate to be a wet blanket.. but how are you going to keep the factory 914 clear lenses from melting????? It will be cool looking if it works!!!!

Those HIDs are 25w. There's a good chance they won't heat it too much. I'd still do a test with an old broken lens though - Clay might be right. I know a 10w HID will discolor a lexan cover if there isn't enough clearance (say an inch or so).

-Ben M.

that's tight! stealthy.

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 21 2005, 10:59 AM)

I hate to be a wet blanket.. but how are you going to keep the factory 914 clear lenses from melting????? It will be cool looking if it works!!!!

Those are the needling type of questions my wife complains about, are you an engineer?

These are fully sealed units, except they have two rubber boots (you can see them in the pics) that are probably for vent. Worse case, I will run a small plastic tube to to airflow for ventilation. Heat pipes could be used as well. If Bruce molds the lenses, he should be able to find a more UV and heat resistance material. That or I will need extra sets to replace periodically,

My first task is to package them and make them adjustable. The supplied mounts allow this but they need to be adapted to the bucket. Sealing will be next and then to see if it can be done simpler...

Coolness! I have thought of a similar kind of thing, but hell, I ain't done nuthin'.




M!

Yes very interesting indeed! I too have had the same plan but not the time to work on it. Definately keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hate to ask, but...
what are you gonna use for indicators?

why don't you mount them in the headlight buckets and use a flush mounted piece of lexan instead of the stock headlight door

The trial lens will be in the mail next week to see if they will stand up against the heat.

What I did was fill the test lens that Felix sent me with a clear UV stable material that I have been experimenting with. It should fill the fluted interior and create a smooth look to the lens. Also it should strengthen the existing lens to withstand the heat. This is the first test to see if it works.

To create a new style lens with the characteristics that Felix described in his emails to me. I will have to create a mold of the exterior of the lens and then a new style interior mold of the filled lens.

To do the exterior portion is the easy part. All I need is a perfect copy of a lens to create it.

The interior is the hard part. Any imperfections are duplicated when you make a mold. So filing the flutes away might not be possible. A CNC machine with mapping capabilities would be perfect. Create a new smooth interior out of metal and then cast the mold from that.

The following picture is of the sample foglight lens I made from the new material.

QUOTE (Neo914-6 @ Jul 21 2005, 04:52 PM)

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 21 2005, 10:59 AM) I hate to be a wet blanket.. but how are you going to keep the factory 914 clear lenses from melting?????   It will be cool looking if it works!!!! Those are the needling type of questions my wife complains about, are you an engineer? These are fully sealed units, except they have two rubber boots (you can see them in the pics) that are probably for vent. Worse case, I will run a small plastic tube to to airflow for ventilation. Heat pipes could be used as well. If Bruce molds the lenses, he should be able to find a more UV and heat resistance material. That or I will need extra sets to replace periodically, My first task is to package them and make them adjustable. The supplied mounts allow this but they need to be adapted to the bucket. Sealing will be next and then to see if it can be done simpler...

Does an MCSE count as a 'real' engineer????


Actually I am what my grandfather called a "jackleg engineer". That means that I can build stuff, but don't ask me to make drawings of how I did it. My father is a retired automtoive engineer, so I may have picked up some of his habits over the years.

I am following this thread to see if it works. It will be really cool if it does.

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jul 21 2005, 11:50 PM)

Hate to ask, but... what are you gonna use for indicators? why don't you mount them in the headlight buckets and use a flush mounted piece of lexan instead of the stock headlight door

I answered both of those questions...

1. mount indicators at Euro running lights, add mirror lights (they are like SPA copies)

2. My Boxster radiators will take up that room and covered lights don't have a modern look IMHO

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 22 2005, 03:50 AM)

Does an MCSE count as a 'real' engineer???? Actually I am what my grandfather called a "jackleg engineer". That means that I can build stuff, but don't ask me to make drawings of how I did it. My father is a retired automtoive engineer, so I may have picked up some of his habits over the years. I am following this thread to see if it works. It will be really cool if it does.

I like that name "jackleg".

It will work for my purposes, it's plug and play after I sort out the mounting. I'm not worried about the optics. I will mount another, at least the fog version in the bumper if need be.

Felix

Here's the lens filled. You can slightly see the ribs still and there must have been a bit of loose paper in the chamber. It's is imbedded in the material. In the mail back to you in the PM to test.

Thanks Bruce!

interesting

what you want is "optically" clear plastic (polycarbonate or acrylic)....when bent/formed the light rays are not "bent" or diffussed too much (fighter pilot cockpit or bubble of a helicopter)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 28 2005, 10:03 PM)

interesting what you want is "optically" clear plastic (polycarbonate or acrylic)....when bent/formed the light rays are not "bent" or diffussed too much (fighter pilot cockpit or bubble of a helicopter)

True:

QUOTE

I've seen how "craftsman" fix distorted jet plane canopies under an optical grid. "Clear enough" is good for this application.

We're working with what's readily available and building proof of concept first...taking it to production worthy is another big step.

"Concept" car allows all the waivers.

QUOTE (dakotaewing @ Jul 21 2005, 04:20 AM)

QUOTE (Neo914-6 @ Jul 21 2005, 03:10 AM) QUOTE (sj914 @ Jul 20 2005, 11:53 PM) I thought you couldn't cover your headlights with a lense unless it came that way. QUOTE Legal? We'll see if they figure it out... I've done some research... and there will be more development That is weak.... Thom

Haven't found anything here to get me in legal trouble, the bottom of the signal lense is 22". Besides, I will make them look "factory". Maybe NHTSA has more restrictions..

Vehicle Code
Headlamps on Motor Vehicles
24400. (a) During darkness, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped with at least two lighted headlamps, with at least one on each side of the front of the vehicle, and, except as to vehicles registered prior to January 1, 1930, they shall be located directly above or in advance of the front axle of the vehicle. The headlamps and every light source in any headlamp unit shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 22 inches.
( This section shall become inoperative on July 1, 2005, and, as of January 1, 2006, is repealed, unless a later enacted statute that is enacted before January 1, 2006, deletes or extends the dates on which it becomes inoperative and is repealed.
Amended Ch. 13, Stats. 1991. Effective February 13, 1991.
Amended and repealed Sec. 1, Ch. 415, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005. Repeal operative January 1, 2006.
The 2004 amendment added the italicized material.
NOTE: The preceding section becomes inoperative on July 1, 2005, at which time the following section becomes operative. The preceding section is repealed January 1, 2006.
24400. (a) During darkness and inclement weather, a motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped with at least two lighted headlamps, with at least one on each side of the front of the vehicle, and, except as to vehicles registered prior to January 1, 1930, they shall be located directly above or in advance of the front axle of the vehicle. The headlamps and every light source in any headlamp unit shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 22 inches.
( As used in subdivision (a), "inclement weather" is a weather condition that is either of the following:
(1) A condition that prevents a driver of a motor vehicle from clearly discerning a person or another motor vehicle on the highway from a distance of 1,000 feet.
(2) A condition requiring the windshield wipers to be in continuous use due to rain, mist, snow, fog, or other precipitation or atmospheric moisture.
© This section shall become operative on July 1, 2005.
Added Sec. 2, Ch. 415, Stats. 2004. Effectve January 1, 2005. Operative July 1, 2005.



Vehicle Code
Use of Multiple Beams24409. Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated during darkness, the driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a safe distance in advance of the vehicle, subject to the following requirements and limitations:(a) Whenever the driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, he shall use a distribution of light or composite beam so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver. The lowermost distribution of light specified in this article shall be deemed to avoid glare at all times regardless of road contour. ( Whenever the driver of a vehicle follows another vehicle within 300 feet to the rear, he shall use the lowermost distribution of light specified in this article.Amended Ch. 37, Stats. 1965. Effective September 17, 1965.

Vehicle Code

Upper and Lower Beam24407. Multiple-beam road lighting equipment shall be designed and aimed as follows: (a) There shall be an uppermost distribution of light, or composite beam, so aimed and of such intensity as to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least 350 feet ahead for all conditions of loading. ( There shall be a lowermost distribution of light, or composite beam so aimed and of sufficient intensity to reveal a person or vehicle at a distance of at least 100 feet ahead. On a straight level road under any condition of loading none of the high intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver. Amended Ch. 547, Stats. 1963. Effective September 20, 1963.

Strange, these smilies ( = B in parenthesis

For anyone researching alternatives, this is good data. Check out the parent directory too. Headlamp Design

QUOTE (Neo914-6 @ Jul 30 2005, 10:55 PM)

Thom [/QUOTE] Haven't found anything here to get me in legal trouble, the bottom of the signal lense is 22". Besides, I will make them look "factory". Maybe NHTSA has more restrictions.. Vehicle Code Headlamps on Motor Vehicles 24400. (a) During darkness, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped with at least two lighted headlamps, with at least one on each side of the front of the vehicle, and, except as to vehicles registered prior to January 1, 1930, they shall be located directly above or in advance of the front axle of the vehicle. The headlamps and every light source in any headlamp unit shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 22 inches. ( This section shall become inoperative on July 1, 2005, and, as of January 1, 2006, is repealed, unless a later enacted statute that is enacted before January 1, 2006, deletes or extends the dates on which it becomes inoperative and is repealed. Amended Ch. 13, Stats. 1991. Effective February 13, 1991. Amended and repealed Sec. 1, Ch. 415, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005. Repeal operative January 1, 2006. The 2004 amendment added the italicized material. NOTE: The preceding section becomes inoperative on July 1, 2005, at which time the following section becomes operative. The preceding section is repealed January 1, 2006. 24400. (a) During darkness and inclement weather, a motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped with at least two lighted headlamps, with at least one on each side of the front of the vehicle, and, except as to vehicles registered prior to January 1, 1930, they shall be located directly above or in advance of the front axle of the vehicle. The headlamps and every light source in any headlamp unit shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 22 inches. ( As used in subdivision (a), "inclement weather" is a weather condition that is either of the following: (1) A condition that prevents a driver of a motor vehicle from clearly discerning a person or another motor vehicle on the highway from a distance of 1,000 feet. (2) A condition requiring the windshield wipers to be in continuous use due to rain, mist, snow, fog, or other precipitation or atmospheric moisture. © This section shall become operative on July 1, 2005. Added Sec. 2, Ch. 415, Stats. 2004. Effectve January 1, 2005. Operative July 1, 2005.

Felix,
Can you give a link to wear this info about the headlight requirements being taken out or modified.

QUOTE (Neo914-6 @ Jul 22 2005, 07:25 AM)

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jul 21 2005, 11:50 PM) Hate to ask, but... what are you gonna use for indicators? why don't you mount them in the headlight buckets and use a flush mounted piece of lexan instead of the stock headlight door I answered both of those questions... 1. mount indicators at Euro running lights, add mirror lights (they are like SPA copies) 2. My Boxster radiators will take up that room and covered lights don't have a modern look IMHO

Here are my mirrors/additional indicators...
The shape is not too "aero" or rounded. The mount will also serve as the corner filler where the front rail "can" be mounted on the door. There is method to the madness....

QUOTE (sj914 @ Jul 31 2005, 12:57 AM)

[QUOTE=Neo914-6,Jul 30 2005, 10:55 PM] Thom [/QUOTE] Haven't found anything here to get me in legal trouble, the bottom of the signal lense is 22". Besides, I will make them look "factory". Maybe NHTSA has more restrictions.. Vehicle Code Headlamps on Motor Vehicles 24400. (a) During darkness, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped with at least two lighted headlamps, with at least one on each side of the front of the vehicle, and, except as to vehicles registered prior to January 1, 1930, they shall be located directly above or in advance of the front axle of the vehicle. The headlamps and every light source in any headlamp unit shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 22 inches. ( This section shall become inoperative on July 1, 2005, and, as of January 1, 2006, is repealed, unless a later enacted statute that is enacted before January 1, 2006, deletes or extends the dates on which it becomes inoperative and is repealed. Amended Ch. 13, Stats. 1991. Effective February 13, 1991. Amended and repealed Sec. 1, Ch. 415, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005. Repeal operative January 1, 2006. The 2004 amendment added the italicized material. NOTE: The preceding section becomes inoperative on July 1, 2005, at which time the following section becomes operative. The preceding section is repealed January 1, 2006. 24400. (a) During darkness and inclement weather, a motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped with at least two lighted headlamps, with at least one on each side of the front of the vehicle, and, except as to vehicles registered prior to January 1, 1930, they shall be located directly above or in advance of the front axle of the vehicle. The headlamps and every light source in any headlamp unit shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 22 inches. ( As used in subdivision (a), "inclement weather" is a weather condition that is either of the following: (1) A condition that prevents a driver of a motor vehicle from clearly discerning a person or another motor vehicle on the highway from a distance of 1,000 feet. (2) A condition requiring the windshield wipers to be in continuous use due to rain, mist, snow, fog, or other precipitation or atmospheric moisture. © This section shall become operative on July 1, 2005. Added Sec. 2, Ch. 415, Stats. 2004. Effectve January 1, 2005. Operative July 1, 2005. [/QUOTE] Felix, Can you give a link to wear this info about the headlight requirements being taken out or modified.

Vehicle code can be found here

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 22 2005, 07:50 AM)

Actually I am what my grandfather called a "jackleg engineer". That means that I can build stuff, but don't ask me to make drawings of how I did it.

Heh! Coolness! I am something of a renaissance jackleg.


M

QUOTE (Neo914-6 @ Jul 31 2005, 02:58 AM)

Strange, these smilies ( = B in parenthesis

Funny as hell... it looks like you are being an ass... like..

( Speed Limit 150... yeah right..

( Don't run thru house with scissors.. yeah right...

( Eat your vegetables... yeah right..

heh

I love the ideas you have, I hope it's alot easier than it looks!



M

QUOTE (redshift @ Jul 31 2005, 02:57 AM)

I love the ideas you have, I hope it's alot easier than it looks! M

QUOTE

The mount will also serve as the corner filler where the front rail "can" be mounted on the door. There is method to the madness....

I just realized that corner mount didn't make sense unless you know I was talking about single glass side windows...

opps, more mad ideas are slipping out.

Thanks Miles


We need this smilie with a "Jackleg Engineering" sign

Hey...


What are you going to use for side mirrors felix?

Andrew

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 28 2005, 10:03 PM)

interesting what you want is "optically" clear plastic (polycarbonate or acrylic)....when bent/formed the light rays are not "bent" or diffussed too much (fighter pilot cockpit or bubble of a helicopter)

This stuff Mike is talking about is really nice and the way to go IMHO. It's very easy to work with. With a little heat-gun application and a little compressed air you can quickly make a really nice domed lens. I've seen a couple of guys make homebuild aircraft canopies from scratch with it, and they came out beautifully. Very slick.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (airsix @ Jul 31 2005, 10:34 AM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 28 2005, 10:03 PM) interesting what you want is "optically" clear plastic (polycarbonate or acrylic)....when bent/formed the light rays are not "bent" or diffussed too much (fighter pilot cockpit or bubble of a helicopter) This stuff Mike is talking about is really nice and the way to go IMHO. It's very easy to work with. With a little heat-gun application and a little compressed air you can quickly make a really nice domed lens. I've seen a couple of guys make homebuild aircraft canopies from scratch with it, and they came out beautifully. Very slick. -Ben M.

Yeah I've seen this done, maybe I'll try it for phase 2 unless you are willing to make a go of it? Join the cause!

I like these made for a Lotus Europa:

Hey Felix,

I haven't heard from you in a while so you MUST be working on your baby...

I hate to see this topic get pushed under the whatever ...

So I was surfing and I see the 928 Spyder and noted the headlights. They I thought of you.



I wonder what they use for the lenses.

Have you come up with a solution for your lenses?

Full pics HERE

Roger

Roger,

Actually had vacation time with the family and had to clean/organize my garage/workshop so I could find tools and parts.

I spent a little time on the lights today. I think I have the mounting worked out coming off the existing "U" mount. Side to side will be more of a bend" adjustment but there shouldn't be much left to right (yaw).

I got Bruce's filled lense and put them under a halogen light. It's heavy and the now convex lense didn't quite survive the shipping. I can't fit it because I have the Hella positioned "into" the concave part of the original lense. It's a test piece anyway and was planned to be sacrificed. If it works I have a new clear lense to fill. I notice all imperfections show so I think the lense will have to be crystal clear with no raised lettering or features. Here's an example of one from a track car where the owner had a communication signal bulb mounted in one of them. I forget if the lense is flat.

I will first mold a nice bezel and a lense cover later. That will assure they have good Hella optics. The Hellas are sealed and weatherproof already. There are alot of cars where people would put the covers on for looks (Alfa Duettos, 240Z's, Camaros)

I was wondering if it had arrived and if it worked......

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Aug 7 2005, 09:09 PM)

So I was surfing and I see the 928 Spyder and noted the headlights. They I thought of you.

I think Rick Ollah (alien) worked on this car...

Felix... great stuff!!!

Im thinking the same lines for my car...

Would be great for production....