I could have written for days, but I figured an hour or so was enough..
What one hell of a way to start a week!

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Nov 28 2005, 01:01 PM)

ok, thanks Jake for the post, clears up a few things

w/Geoff.....

basicly it appears to be "feature" creep, the buyer kept adding options...we've all been guilty of that whether buying a new car, a new house or a even a pizza

Absolutely.... I can post that entire portion of the proposal... The customer has to INITIAL next to the option they want to add. The inclusive options are added into the cost of the NEW PARTS and their labor to install is also added in to the flat labor rate.

This way the customer is in control- not me and they can spend as much as they want making the engine better, or just stay with the base engine as it includes everything they need for the bold price listed before options are even mentioned.

Thanks Jake, I am satisified.

Very professional and glad you waited for the shit to float to the bottom of the ocean before your reply.

Hopefully you hold no animosity toward our posts. We now know all the facts. What I learned is that many of our 914er's need more standard built motors and they need to learn to ask questions (business 101).

Case Closed, we all learned something.

Tom

QUOTE

Very professional and glad you waited for the shit to float to the bottom of the ocean before your reply

well all except for the grammar from hell and multiple type-Os... LOL


I was away at the new house working all weekend and only came back here once to grab the specs for flat vws engine tune up and didn't see this till I logged in today..... It just so happens that it worked out well because I was able to see it when I had plenty of time to reply and had a few avenues to blow off some steam that didn't show me going burzerk!

Like my dad always says " A littlie bit of good comes out of everything bad".. Thats exactly how my proposal evolved from 2 paragraphs to over 4 solid pages! Its also the thing that has developed every engine that I have ever built.....

I used to have a sample proposal on my site- looks like its time to reload that puppy and get a better system at the same time.

Jake, I applaud you

All the money and business stuff aside.
You kept your cool and I respect you for that.

I'll never spend that kind of money for *ANY* motor.

Then again, there are prospective clients of mine who won't *EVER* pay what I ask for my tile work either.


You have enough work to get you by... So do I.


KT

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 28 2005, 12:30 PM)

I was away at the new house working all weekend and only came back here once to grab the specs for flat vws engine tune up ...

thanks again, Jake,

John

QUOTE

trekkor Posted on Nov 28 2005, 02:05 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jake, I applaud you   All the money and business stuff aside. You kept your cool and I respect you for that.

Wow, this was interesting. After I get the practice paid off, it will take me between 3 and 6 months to afford it, but none of this has changed any of my plans. I still think young Mr. Raby needs to have a business manager to deal with the money end, that is the direction all your headaches will come from.

I wonder why 13 of the last 14 flake outs have been 914's, maybe the cars they were going to put the motors in rusted away and disintegrated in the intervening period.

QUOTE (trekkor @ Nov 28 2005, 01:05 PM)

Then again, there are prospective clients of mine who won't *EVER* pay what I ask for my tile work either.

A pal of my used to say, "The most one will ever "get" of a given market is 50%".....

"Because there is 25% you don't want, and another 25% who don't want you"........




John

Trekkor, Keeping my cool was very hard- I have to admit... But i saw that all the negative posts originated simply because the story had not been fully told.

Most of the costs of my engines are in their parts- as you can clearly see... My labor was not even 1/4 of even the price tag that was approaching 20K fully optioned.

The time has come for standardized 2270 and 2316 engines, while they will benefit from developments that come from the Super Hero engines... Custom builds (at least for 914 applications) will be limited only to Super Hero base engines..

Jake,

I think the problem lies in the secrecy that you use to run your business. I understand that there are competitive issues that are forcing this behavior. But when you get into a group like this one, that sort of behavior tends to create gossip.

So the line you are walking, what to disclose and what not to disclose, fuels the rumor mill. It sucks because there are people that will use your hard work as their own, but that seems to be a cost of doing business.

Thanks for the peek behind the curtain. It's good to know what custom engines costs.

Good response BTW.

QUOTE

KaptKaos Posted on Nov 28 2005, 02:45 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jake, I think the problem lies in the secrecy that you use to run your business. I understand that there are competitive issues that are forcing this behavior. But when you get into a group like this one, that sort of behavior tends to create gossip. So the line you are walking, what to disclose and what not to disclose, fuels the rumor mill. It sucks because there are people that will use your hard work as their own, but that seems to be a cost of doing business. Thanks for the peek behind the curtain. It's good to know what custom engines costs. Good response BTW.

Good Point

Did Colenol Sanders ever release the recipe for KFC?? How about Coca Cola- anyone have the recipe handy?? Nope....

Most people don't know exactly what I do differently from the other guys that makes more power and doesn't hurt the longevity of the engine- in fact not even Brent does!

I learned long ago that as soon as one does anything different and makes themselves noticed the gossip and rumors begin... It sucks because I have the same kind of stress that a damn politician would have, but I don't get all their fring benefits!

I also learned long ago that success brings enemies, Thomas edison learned the same thing about 75 years before I was born. He didn't let it bother him, he used it as fuel for his fire and I try like hell to do the same thing. I don't mind the fact that some people absolutely can't stand me, because I have made those happy that have followed my path and gave me their money and those are the only ones that I have to please when it comes down to judgement day... Most of those that hate me, don't know me or they are jealous because they'd love to be doing what I do but they lack the drive to do it efffectively- it pisses them off and it shopuld because they CAN do it, if they dedicate themselves to it.

I have no special talemnt, and I work with tools not a magic wand. I have not done anything that anyone else can't do with the same amount of trial, eror, experienece and dedication... The difference is I don't mind taking risks and I don't mind spending more money than I make to keep developing things- thats the secret recipe.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 28 2005, 02:21 PM)

Did Colenol Sanders ever release the recipe for KFC?? How about Coca Cola- anyone have the recipe handy?? Nope.... Most people don't know exactly what I do differently from the other guys that makes more power and doesn't hurt the longevity of the engine- in fact not even Brent does! I learned long ago that as soon as one does anything different and makes themselves noticed the gossip and rumors begin... It sucks because I have the same kind of stress that a damn politician would have, but I don't get all their fring benefits! I also learned long ago that success brings enemies, Thomas edison learned the same thing about 75 years before I was born. He didn't let it bother him, he used it as fuel for his fire and I try like hell to do the same thing. I don't mind the fact that some people absolutely can't stand me, because I have made those happy that have followed my path and gave me their money and those are the only ones that I have to please when it comes down to judgement day... Most of those that hate me, don't know me or they are jealous because they'd love to be doing what I do but they lack the drive to do it efffectively- it pisses them off and it shopuld because they CAN do it, if they dedicate themselves to it. I have no special talemnt, and I work with tools not a magic wand. I have not done anything that anyone else can't do with the same amount of trial, eror, experienece and dedication... The difference is I don't mind taking risks and I don't mind spending more money than I make to keep developing things- thats the secret recipe.

My post was in the context of this group and forum. Not so much about your paying customers. I think we all would like the ability to get one of your motors. Not knowing what that really means is part of the fuel for this rumor mill.

I wouldn't disclose anything either. I just wanted to give my opinion on why this subject/thread got as much attention as it did.

This way the customer is in control- not me



BTDT.....can't run my jobs (home building) that way.....

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 28 2005, 03:21 PM)

Did Colenol Sanders ever release the recipe for KFC?? How about Coca Cola- anyone have the recipe handy?? Nope....

QUOTE

genuine KFC secret recipe 2  cups flour 1/2 tsp salt 1/2 tsp thyme 1/2 tsp basil 1/2 tsp oregano 1  tbsp celery salt 1  tbsp black pepper 1  tbsp dry mustard 4  tbsp paprika 2  tsp garlic salt 1  tsp ground ginger 3  tbsp MSG (Accent) Mix all ingredients well in a large bowl. Dip chicken pieces in beaten eggs Then turn them over in regular bread crumbs (commercial) Finally plunge them in the flour-spices mixture (above) Heat oven to 350 degrees Place chicken in a tray and cover with foil (shiny side out) Cook 40 minutes.   Remove the foil then cook for another 40 minutes Baste lightly with oil 5 minutes before the end Let stand 5 minutes and serve.

QUOTE

Purported Coke secret recipe one This recipe is attributed to a sheet of paper found in an old formulary book owned by Coca-Cola inventor, John S. Pemberton, just before his death (U.S. measures): 1 oz citrate caffeine 3 oz citric acid 1 fl oz extract vanilla 1 qt lime juice 2½ oz flavoring 30 lb (14 kg) sugar 4 fl oz fluid extract of coca (decocainized flavor essence of the coca leaf) 2½ gal water Caramel sufficient 80 Oil orange 40 Oil cinnamon 120 Oil lemon 20 Oil coriander 40 Oil nutmeg 40 Oil neroli 1 qt alcohol "Mix caffeine acid and lime juice in 1 quart boiling water add vanilla and flavoring when cool. Let stand for 24 hours. Flavoring is likely a mixture orange oil, lemon, nutmeg oil, cinnamon oil, coriander oil, neroli oil and 1 quart of alcohol."

QUOTE (Mueller @ Nov 28 2005, 02:33 PM)

QUOTE Purported Coke secret recipe one This recipe is attributed to a sheet of paper found in an old formulary book owned by Coca-Cola inventor, John S. Pemberton, just before his death (U.S. measures): 1 oz citrate caffeine 3 oz citric acid 1 fl oz extract vanilla 1 qt lime juice 2½ oz flavoring 30 lb (14 kg) sugar 4 fl oz fluid extract of coca (decocainized flavor essence of the coca leaf) 2½ gal water Caramel sufficient 80 Oil orange 40 Oil cinnamon 120 Oil lemon 20 Oil coriander 40 Oil nutmeg 40 Oil neroli 1 qt alcohol "Mix caffeine acid and lime juice in 1 quart boiling water add vanilla and flavoring when cool. Let stand for 24 hours. Flavoring is likely a mixture orange oil, lemon, nutmeg oil, cinnamon oil, coriander oil, neroli oil and 1 quart of alcohol."

I always thought Coke had some clove in it.

J

Well written Jake.

Mueller... doesn't the "F" in KFC stand for "Fried"?

My first job in 1973 was working at a KFC.

It was all pressure cooked.

Well, we can’t let you totally off the hook, because you singled out 914 owners as the source of all your misery. I’d challenge you to define what a “typical” 914 owner is and how they are any different from anyone else.

You still take it way too personally when someone declines the final proposal 10 months after they got on the list. You were quick to mention how much things have changed in that time, with fuel and parts prices. Well, life changes too, and at a much faster rate than anything else.

You have capitalized on the fact that your personality allows you to focus on something and do it well. You can control virtually every aspect of the process….with exception of the customer. A customer is nothing like a crankshaft or procedure that can be rationally ordered and processed. The way you see it, the customer is just waiting in line to be processed, and that is a model for failure. Keep doing what you do well, but you need to revise your process so that you can accommodate the inevitable challenges that will come your way.

You mentioned that when someone declines a proposal it throws off your schedule for the whole year. The problem is that you obviously built a schedule with the anticipation of 100% acceptance of your proposals. You could build a business model that expects a 90% acceptance rate, but you would be better off just accepting the fact that some of your time is going to be spent on motors that never see the light of day.

Now, if you can just come up with a nice, solid 150hp 2270 with nickies and ceramic lifters that can be bought for $8000, I think you’d be surprised at how many people take you up on it. You wouldn’t need exotic head work or other state of the art features to make 150hp that will run 100k miles. As the value of these cars increases, $8000 for a nice street motor is going to become increasingly attractive.

Keep up the good work. People can say a lot of things about Jake Raby, but boring and indifferent are not among them.

Yes, I could of took less. Take the Nickies off, That I asked for. Take off the engine coating package, that I asked for, Heck why not bring some of those cracked finned cylinders. Do I really need thoses fins on them cylinders? No, they only help keep the engine a little cooler. Come on Jake you know what I asked for. I asked for a 2270cc with Nickies, the special coatings, EFI, DTM, all the bells & whisles. Anything less was not the engine I was putting my deposit on. Yes, you were working on the EFI as we first talked. But you seem to always low ball the prices of your engines. Even when you were looking for someone to take my spot here on this board you stated "Anywhere from 7K clear to 14.5K could be the end result". When $19,547 is the end result Not 14.5K.

Ok, so let me get this right. When you get an engine from you,you start off with a phone call like I did and get a "rough" estimate ($11,000). Then send $200 deposit. Then phone calls every now & then. Send core engine down to you. Then 10 months later you give proposal that shows $11,000 "rough" estimate is now $19,547. Now I'm in "control" to bargian down to one I did not ask for. And no way go to the back of the list and let someone most likely be glad to have an ealier spot thats waiting for a 2270cc. And now finding out all the price increases, not keeping client inform so you can't get your deposit or engine core back.

Thanks it's been an expensive lesson on engine builders, Ralph

What blows my mind is thinking...

"$19,000 for an engine... AND I have to supply the core..."

Wow... That just strikes me as wild... Just think of the cool engines I could get and install for my 914 that will do equal power for half that cost... Sure it wont be a TIV, but man...

Round 2 or 3?

ROG914,
I have explained myself as thoroughly as I see fit and won't go into further detail. Fact is that I have NEVER sold a 2270 engine for 19,547 bucks- i do believe the most expensive to date is 15K. Most people that want that many options want a larger displacement engine, like the 2563...

If you have further questions/comments you have my email address. The continual posts and the fact that THIS WAS NEVER BROUGHT UP TO ME VIA EMAIL OR PHONE only proves your true intent. One thing that really annoys me are people that won't say anything to your face, but then come here to a forum and spill the beans before they are cooked. This could have also been taken up on my forum, but of course I moderate it and the damage may noyt have been as bad as one may have anticipated here.... Hell if you would have approached me in any way other than this you probably would have gotten the 200.00 back and maybe even the core- not a snowballs chance in hell thats happening now!

On second thought if I give him back the 200 bucks and the core he would not have a leg to stand on.... or a gripe in the world with me.....Hmmmn

As far as a 19K engine- I have 5 engines in my super hero line up that are going for 23K+. One of those customers has already bought 6 engines from me. These guys chose the larger, more expensive engines and two of them insisted on those engines even against my recommendation of a 2270, that would do what they need andd then some. Of course none of these are going into a 914, I only have two 914 builds on the wait list at the present, both are standard engines and one is for the earliest VIN LE car that has been recorded to date.

Wow

Look what happens when I post

Ralph opened a door to questions which a lot of member seem to have. The Raby Garage motors (including pricing) was always avoided in posts. I have read other posts that someone asks for a price (general inquiry in the garage) and got nothing but
This I suspect this is why the thred has gotten attention. Inquiring minds want to know.

The final price has no bearing on my opinion, as I charge an hourly rate and understand. but it really seems we, at the 914 club, are a very small part of your business, but yet, in your reply post, you still bring up the 14/15 factor, rub salt in the wounds. And your reply still sounded like a infomercial. If the 914 owner are such deadbeats...why fucking bother ?

Later

Burp...

what i'm still wondering is why Jake doesnt build a more standarized engine, one with the updates but without custom working....

why does everything have to have years of R&D work....


the 914 engine is very well designed IMHO....not too much goes wrong when properly maintained....and people are still on the original set of everythings.

I do like the idea of updated components...i think its *KEY* that this engine starts drifting into more power and more durability....but i dont have any reason why that should cost 11k.....

and i dont think its right to trash the 914 community for a minority of your problems.

Thats the reason why I stated last time this happened that I was stopping 914 engine development/ building, but I was bombarded with people asking me NOT to do that.... It is a very small part of what I do, but I figure that one day it may get better- who knows..

As far as avoiding prices, as you have seen here the options can double the price of the engine pretty easily if the customer goes wild... And every time I post a price i6t comes back to bite me in the sass- thats why I don't do it, because it varies so much with the custom nature of the engines.

Tonight I am working on the 914 engine build price sheet. Since this is hot on my mind and has totally ruined my productivity today I figure I may as well benefit from it somehow. I am making prices for 4 engines and thats it- thats all that will be available and they are not available with more options than they are priced with. Hopefully this will end all the questions and complaining and make things easier for me and give me more time to work on custom engines for other applications with less admin headaches..

I will post it here later tonight.

Five years ago is when I started doing all the development work and getting away from the standardized builds. I did this to REDUCE the amount of engines I built to make each of them better. Then I gave the engines 1/2 as much bench time as I do now as well. The prices I am making up as we speak will be for an engine equal to that without the development work and I will utilize those more developed parts for the other builds. The engines I will offer are still not cheap, but will definately be easierfor me to dictate price wise. This era of engines I will be replicating is just about the same time frame that flatvw'e engine was built and it performs great. They will not have the 100K lifespan that a current 2270 has, but not many guys drive their cars that much these days.

I am one that thinks nothing is ever good enough- looks like I'll eep marching on with my engines in other fields of use as fully developed units and will take a step backward to hopefully keep the 914 world satisfied a bit. If this doesn't work i don't know what else I can do but drop the 914 from my line up and only sell kits and parts.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Nov 28 2005, 03:08 PM)

My first job in 1973 was working at a KFC.   It was all pressure cooked.

"I have an extensive collection of nametags and hairnets"----Wayne Cambell

J

Jake do you mean you'll only be offering 2270 kits and up?

I had a guy make a snide comment one time about me charging him $35.00/hr for metal werk which is actually pretty low. My response was, well then you go buy a 1500.00 welder, 2000.00 werth of body tools, build a garage and do it yourself. Couple weeks later he came by while I was MAKING his rocker panels and said "I guess that's what you meant huh?" You pay for the knowledge and tools. Go bitch to your doctor or laywer or accountant next time they hand you a bill. Oh yeah, they deserve it because they are a "professional" and we're just mechanics and bodymen right? Want the toys,? you gotta PAY to PLAY. This thread has run it's course. Go back and re-read the original post and if you do so OBJECTIVLY you will see that what Jake states is understood in the original post as far as the additional option costs. Knowledge cots whether it's from a book or from research. Why the hell do you think medications are so expensive?? Sure some fat cat is making it big but it takes a tremendous amount of money to get the drug's "perfected" if they ever are. Rant over.

I expended over 40K last year in testing and developments....... That was VERY easy to do. This year my R&D budget was depleted before September arrived. That was MY money- not share holders and I didn't borrow it from a bank. 2K extra was given to the lifter fund by guys here and other fourums just so we could finish the lifter testing since we spent 12K and still had no answer, but then ran out of funds.....

I am already working on 2006's R&D funds for the Turbo work and its not even December yet..

That money doesn't grow on trees and I'll be damned if I'll do all that test work and not employ those changes and parts on the engines that deserve it..

I have to admit

you guys are great Politicians.

Sorry Scotty...your rant has no foundation to stand on. The plain fact of the matter is at 35 an hour, you can't pay a rent, tools, and equipement. Are you a Body shop?

35 and hour insults everybody in the Automotive trade.

Nuff said

Not questioning what you do to engines but dont you offer a Type IV to your bug customers? If you do how is any different from one you would offer to the 914 community beside how the cooling is set up? I would love to have a better, faster stronger motor in my teener but I guess I will have to wait until price is no object to get it. Which may be a while and you may be totally pissed at the 914 community by then.

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Nov 28 2005, 05:40 PM)

I always thought Coke had some clove in it. J

i think clove flavor is used in dr. pepper, mr. pibb et al.

...great with popcorn!

Tried to stay on the popcorn, but can't resist.

IF the initial ball park estimate was "about $11K" with all the "bells and whistles" and the final price, including b&w's, was $19.5K, the deposit and core engine should be refunded.

QUOTE (ws91420 @ Nov 28 2005, 05:45 PM)

Not questioning what you do to engines but dont you offer a Type IV to your bug customers? If you do how is any different from one you would offer to the 914 community beside how the cooling is set up? I would love to have a better, faster stronger motor in my teener but I guess I will have to wait until price is no object to get it. Which may be a while and you may be totally pissed at the 914 community by then.

Yes, the majority of my customers are Beetle and 356 converts... Those engines are drastically different on the inside as far as design goes. The average beetle owner wants fast 0-60 times but an engine that can sustain 80+ MPH all day long.... A beetle weighs about 600 pounds less than a 914 and only has a 4 speed gearbox.. Now an engine specifically prepared for that car should be and IS designed differently than one for the heavier 914 with taller gearing and more times than not uses the stock cooling system which is inefficient in comparison to the DTM cooled upright engine.

This is the reason why I have 914 specific combinations that are designed only for 914s. A bit of compromise is made with these to afford the use of heater boxes and stock cooling systems.

Basically an engine that performs great in a beetle might not do worth a damn in a 914, you can ask Tom Perso, ( a member here) about the differences he experienced when pulling the engine from his bug and slapping it into a 914...

A purpose built engine is always superior, especially when gearing and tire sizes are included into the equation...

QUOTE (Rockaria @ Nov 28 2005, 05:02 PM)

What blows my mind is thinking... "$19,000 for an engine... AND I have to supply the core..." Wow... That just strikes me as wild... Just think of the cool engines I could get and install for my 914 that will do equal power for half that cost... Sure it wont be a TIV, but man...

try having a shop build a Porsche 6 and do the same thing with options and upgrades.....it'll start adding up pretty darn fast...the fuel injection alone with cost $1000 more than Jakes quoted price for an equally setup assembly.....

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 28 2005, 04:22 PM)

On second thought if I give him back the 200 bucks and the core he would not have a leg to stand on.... or a gripe in the world with me.....Hmmmn

I would do this Jake just for PR and to let the air out of this BS thats going on.

I build $100k remodels to 2 million dollar homes these days and I make sure the plans and specs are very clear before the contract is signed. The owners also know that NOTHING is changed unless its in writing and signed. Still they want more for nothing....human nature I supposed. 'course there was that time the Dean of the UW tried to fire me on the spot cuz I wouldn't do additional work on his say so.

"you can't please all the people all the time"

Sounds like standard 914 motors are the way to go for now.

Oh btw, who wants a stock motor anyway! These days 95hp isn't enough nor that crappy cam.

I am working on the standardized list as we speak.. Some people won't like the lack of options, but its the only way to make this process "cut and dry" and remove the variables...

I dug into my files from 2000 and got my old proposals out and opened up their dyno graphs...

I'll have them posted before I go to bed tonight..

I think one of the things that often gets missed (I did the same thing) is that Jake's basic engine price includes a set of new carbs.
Most of us expect an engine to still need stuff attached to it once it is delivered but a RAT engine already has everything needed for it to run after installation except maybe the exhaust system. (that's my job )
I think that the cost of the EFI upgrade is quite steep but I have never done any research on my own so I don't have a real basis for that opinion.
If I were planning a RAT 2270 engine for my street 914 I would go with the Nickies and skip the DTM. The DTM looks great in a rear engine car but I don't like the "upright" look in a 914 engine bay. I would probably skip the Performance Coatings but I would get the Ion Nitrided Crankshaft and Full Flow Oiling.
A couple of other observations: IMO the $200 deposit is not really an engine deposit but is for the privilege (that's right) of waiting in line. As such I can see a justification for it being non-refundable. On the other hand the engine core should be returned if no contract agreement is reached. The core engine is the property of the prospective customer.

In this case there was never a contract. There was no meeting of the minds. A signed proposal is the only way to establish the "meeting of the minds". Therefore the core engine should be returned. To keep it is nothing less than spiteful and would not stand up in a court of law IMHO unless there was signed paper to the contrary.
Just my $.02
Chris Foley

The price of the EFI is a tad steeper than if someone purchased all the items to do the install themselves... BUT I TUNE the system for them as part of that cost.. Chris, you have set an engine up on my dyno and you kopw whats involved with that- now add about 200% more wires and etc and thats what one experiences with testing an EFI equipped engine, not to mention the additional time to MAP the engine's RPM fuel values (from 500 RPM to redline in 250 RPM increments) and each MP value across the entire range, which is much harder than RPM fuel and don't forget the cold start enrichment which requires the engine to cool down fully between eachn setting can be verified- this is why it takes at least double the time to correctly dyno tune an EFI equipped engine, hence the additional cost...

And yes, the engine included a ONE THOUSAND DOLLAR set of brand new Weber carbs- which you are lucky to even find these days..

Wow, came back tonight and this thing has leggs.

I am really learning a lot on this thread now that the flames are over.

Chris Foley's suggestion for an engine selection makes lots of sense. Keep it coming guys.

Tom

...:insertfanfaresmiley: We have a winner

The "onion thread" only got 84 replies and 2600 views...

back to the

I think standard kits/engines is a good idea. Easier for the builder, easy to give pricing on. You can ALWAYS give an estimated price and note right after it "call for exact quote" or "price" or however you want to word it. It's helpful for the customer's budgeting process to have at least an idea of what the costs are gonna be. Again, that contract thang comes up which would have the final costs.

Some options would be a good thing. Suppose they already have carbs and/or tin and just need the engine? If the lifters are a weak point then the ceramics could be an additional option. Nothing extensive but allow for some pre-priced customization. If I were to buy a motor (at this current time) it would be for a stock motor that I would dress myself, including the stock FI. I just need someone knowledgable to build the motor (internals, basically) so it's solid and reliable, I can dress it and I certainly don't want carbs (I hate carbs, even on my big T3 engine).

Food for thought.

Oh, and deposits should be refundable or go towards the cost of the engine. But yeah, 6 month wait is about as long as it should be.

Okay, now I'm done.

Did the buyer just shoot himself in the foot again??? This is getting more silly, ecspecially after one hears jakes side. Buyer should stop complaining. Without a written contract there is not much you can do. To Jake maybe you should just give the squeeky wheel some oil, I like your thinking , the $200 may not be worth this kind of grief and publicity, but them again it is kind of like paying off blackmail at this point right? Cringe at the thought.

Aren't we talking $200 and a 2.0 core engine?

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ Nov 28 2005, 03:52 PM)

Well, we can’t let you totally off the hook, because you singled out 914 owners as the source of all your misery. I’d challenge you to define what a “typical” 914 owner is and how they are any different from anyone else. You still take it way too personally when someone declines the final proposal 10 months after they got on the list. You were quick to mention how much things have changed in that time, with fuel and parts prices. Well, life changes too, and at a much faster rate than anything else. You have capitalized on the fact that your personality allows you to focus on something and do it well. You can control virtually every aspect of the process….with exception of the customer. A customer is nothing like a crankshaft or procedure that can be rationally ordered and processed. The way you see it, the customer is just waiting in line to be processed, and that is a model for failure. Keep doing what you do well, but you need to revise your process so that you can accommodate the inevitable challenges that will come your way. You mentioned that when someone declines a proposal it throws off your schedule for the whole year. The problem is that you obviously built a schedule with the anticipation of 100% acceptance of your proposals. You could build a business model that expects a 90% acceptance rate, but you would be better off just accepting the fact that some of your time is going to be spent on motors that never see the light of day. Now, if you can just come up with a nice, solid 150hp 2270 with nickies and ceramic lifters that can be bought for $8000, I think you’d be surprised at how many people take you up on it. You wouldn’t need exotic head work or other state of the art features to make 150hp that will run 100k miles. As the value of these cars increases, $8000 for a nice street motor is going to become increasingly attractive. Keep up the good work. People can say a lot of things about Jake Raby, but boring and indifferent are not among them.

Steve,
You hit the nail on the head for me. I have been on the sidelines lamenting my non-raby choice which has turned out terribly and had I had a clearcut 8K raby choice the decision would have been easy.