Now I'm convinced. Sell the six and buy a Raby T4.

Who better than I to give advice on building a killer 914! Trekkor has said he will never go racing...therefore the car will always break...ergo...he should buy a 911, which won't break....

Actually Trekkor, you should buy The Beast™! I'll be posting pics of the 2.7, but when I opened it up it really looks good in there...the motor I'm building is gonna rock!

Ah...I'm just kidding Trekkor....I love my 2 914's...otherwise I wouldn't still have them....

Bill P.

P.S. Anyone want to buy a V8 914 or a Sheridan Kit 914 track car?

I never saw that coming...Out of nowhere.



For anybody that's interested:
Cal Contractor general engineering classifications


KT

No worrying about safety, welding credentials, bulkhead or bar, etc. Just a simple safe install. Is this a Koolaide smiley?

Nope, Bombay Saphire GT


KT

I did check my mount, as I do regularly. I expect there could be a failure, but don't necessarily expect one.

It's fine so far. If mine fails, I'll attempt a fix (I have some ideas for the reinforcement of the piece) and then replace it with a firewall mount if it starts to fail again.

You guys can be pretty dramatic on shit like this. I agree that the torsional stresses on this bar are significant, but to imply the problem can't be rectified with additional engineering is a little silly.

The original 'Quick 6'(from another company) mounts never fail and they have similar torsional issues. The only difference is that they overcome these stresses with large amounts of thick steel.

I'm not affiliated with PMS, but have found their products to be of high quality.

Clearly PMS has some nice products. What I can't understand is how they could take any failure of their products lightly. The world is full of talented engineers and fabricators that can literally make anything you can imagine, all it takes is time and money. The only thing that separates one company from another is reputation and track record. As much as I try, I just can't understand how ANY company could let something like this happen without being profoundly concerned and exceptionally accommodating.

PMS should have a new bulkhead mount in the mail to you at no cost, as a goodwill gesture. Look at all the trouble you have to go through because of the failure of their product. Sure, they can say they fired some crack head welder a while back because of shoddy work, but it's about taking responsibility for what you produce. Every time we buy a product, we put our trust and faith in the company that produced and sold it. I'd hate to think that in a market as specialized as Porsche conversion parts that they feel it's ok to turn a blind eye to their client base.

How many sales do you think they've lost every time a thread like this comes up? How many customers will they never have because Mike Z. had a poor experience with them? Unfortunately it's a case where they have enough customers, and evidently enough money coming in, that they don't have to care about every customer. When your name is on the part, I'd think pride should be more of a concern than money.

You know very well that PMS is following this thread, but we've never heard a word from them, and this is hardly the first time something like this has happened. That's because time is money, and no one is paying them to care about what people think. Every once in a while we all need to take a step back and remember that it's not about the cars, this is all about people, and their passion for cars.

Ok, rant over

Ok. I reviewed the PMS website and saw no mention of warranty on their products. It may be there somewhere, but I couldn't find anything. However, that is probably immaterial.

From what Trekkor is relaying here, Jim Patrick has taken some interest in finding out what occurred. This may be more than he is really required to do. Let’s not forget that Trekkor bought this product used from another party. PMS has no idea what this mount has been through before it got installed in Trekkor’s car. If there was any warranty to begin with, I doubt that it was transferable.

Hey Trekkor, have you considered a bulk head mount?

It's called "Punch Drunk" from 11 pages of seemingly improbable debate.

I just think the guy is a dickhead, that sells a crappy designed part(s) and won't stand behind his product.....

That's not an experience, it's an opinion.....I've never bought from the guy. Just talked to him and have had associates that have been hosed by him.....same with AA.

Bullshitters stink can be smelled across State lines.

how many 6 mounts are actually sold each year(new)? split the sales #s between rj and pms, and it's slim pickings for the manufacturers. my guess is there is a bunch of new stock, sitting on shelves from the last production run (when ever that may have been). as a vendor, you would think all items would have to be blasted, welds ground out, rewelded, or just thown in the recycle bin. start fresh. forget a q.c. inspection.

there is obviously a flaw in the manu process. i've seen concrete tilt walls (we're talking tons) with relatively small attachment points, welded with square bar stock and stick rods, backed into with trucks, and they don't fall over. i wonder if pms does the work in house or if it's farmed out?

k

Maybe I missed it, but did PMS respond to you yet Trekkor??

We've not spoken in a while.

Since I told him I wasn't returning the broken bar, it seems he's lost interest.

I've called and left messages. He called back once, but I was away from the phone.

Maybe I'll call him again today.

I'm not really sure what I should expect.
I really think he needs to use a bar and gusset with thicker guage metal.
Or include a bolt on diagonal brace that goes between the mount cradle and the firewal to prevent torsional movement.

That's what I plan to do after the weld repair is done.


KT

Several here have stated they've seen 0 failures with the Rich Johnson mount. Well, I saw one. It was on a car with a hotted up 3.0, and the failure was cracking on one of the mounting ears that bolt to the engine. It was fixed with a reinforcement plate before anything bad happened. So, they CAN fail, even if it is a rare thing. Trekkor's 2.0 also doesn't put out anything like the torque of a 3.0, either.

so i'm driving down 880 in the 914 to work this morning, nice morning, top off, cruising at 60 in the middle lane. i'm enjoying the ride and the world seems to be a good place to be. get a few thumbs up from strangers. a kid in a dodge ram with flowmaster exhaust thinks he's driving a race car and wants me to turn 880 into a drag strip during thursday morning rush hour. i laugh at him and he takes off. i feel good knowing i made his day. he raced a porsha and won, i'm sure it'll be the talk of the day. traffic was light and taking the offramp onto 92 at 65 put a big grin on my face. it was high tide and only a light breeze over the bay. the water almost looked like a mirror and the mist had yet to be burned off by the rising sun. the air smelled fresh and moist. i watched a few airplanes heading towards SFO as i crossed the san mateo bridge. it's amazing how beautiful this place is, especially in the morning. and the fact that i was in my 914 with the top down didn't hurt either. got to work in time and got myself a fresh coffee from the armenian coffee shop around the corner. someone had mowed the lawn last night and the fresh cut grass smelled like spring. it's supposed to be in the 80s today. can't wait to get back into the car for the ride home.

what was this thread about again?
Andy

That's why I think actually having welds on the mount solves the problem with the PMS bar.

Of course, time will tell. Popcorn, anyone?


KT

That...What you wrote. Doing it. Driving 'em.

that was perfect.


KT

OK you guys are scaring me. Where do you buy the RJ mount and how much?

T.C.

It's been posted a couple times, but buried pretty deep now I guess...

http://www.914conversions.com/html/mount.html

Simple, cheap, the right thing to do. Just git-r-done.

Very descriptive- Have you ever thought of writing?

Wow,
12 pages ont this subject. I bet PMS hasn't sold as many bars as people who have commented. I have one I bought new from PMS 2.2 with no problems. My friend also runs one on his PCA-GT5s 914 with a 2.2 and 180 rwhp. No problems for 5 years of abuse.
just my thoughts,
van914

I'd like to know what people are doing for transmission mounts with the bars that have and have not failed. Are rubber mounts used on far ends of the bar that attaches to the body??

RJ uses a stock 911 mount with ears welded to it. Now, where did it break?

I'm now beginning to think that the PMS bulk head mount could break also. He uses the exact same material for the front of the engine (plate steel) as he does for the bar.

Has anyone learned anything?

It is funny. Trek just calls me on all of this..then asks me if I have seen the thread yet?


B

I agree the PMS bulkhead is built of the same strength materials.. but I think that the forces on it are quite different.

having that underbar reach behind the motor and take the force/twisting of the motor rocking forward back exerts more force than the simple up/down (without leverage) that the bulkhead gets.

I'm certainly no engineer, but I haven't yet heard of a single PMS bulkhead failure (and there is a lot of ancedotal about bar failures)

The factory bulkhead is small and puny, but works pretty good for what I theorize to be the same reasons.. less leverage, less force

brant

Bad welds will fail both of the POS bars... If the quality control at POS is not there or he called in sick that day...The welds may not be what they should be and they will fail.


RJ mount all the way..Get-it and forget it

Give Rich a call. He is a great guy and passionate about 914-6 conversions. I could tell he has spent a lot of time thinking about how to produce a strong mount that is relatively installation freindly. Certainly not as easy as the PMS quick mount bar, but the piece of mind is worth it to me.

He impresses me as businessman with integrity. Thats tough to come by these days.

$471 later I have a mounting system, 911 engine mounts and piece of mind!

no engineer either, but as far as I can see, it's the center part that sees the most stress/leverage

the reason I think the stock /6 mount works is because it has a HUGE rubber block in it which will deflect and allow the engine to move
But my guess is that this only works with a small six and that a big torqy engine would rip or wear the rubber out pretty soon

The problem is not so much in how you mount the bar to the chassis, but how you mount the engine to the bar
IMO that's where the RJ mount wins in design over the PMS mount (bulkhead or quick bar)

This is prolly why I'm stubbornly trying to fix mine.

It wasn't welded...

Even with that it survived 20ish a/x's and 9 track days.

I'll give it one more chance.


KT

just don't hate me if i ever need to bring this thread back from the dead ...

Andy "i told you so" Schmidt

2 points to consider:

1. This thread may never die.
2. If my bar breaks again do you really think I'll tell anybody.


KT

Only if no one else sees it happen....

-Josh2

It cracked halfway along one of the ears. Nowhere near a weld.

AKA "The rookie"
[/quote]

the jokes around here last longer than the threads they were born in ...
Andy

Lemme see if I got this right........
You put a part on your car that was missing a weld?

Yeah

What's the big deal?



KT

Well it is a racecar after all... Welds would just add weight.

Speaking of weight savings. In talking with Rich he indicated that I could cut out the standard 914-4 engine mounting structures which allows for better access to engine and cuts weight.

Trekkor, This is son of Frakenthread. ...It just wont die!

But what if you want to go back to a /4?

Dave

Why would I want to turn it back into a Volkswagen?

I knew given enough time and pushing we would get you into the right way of thinking....

yes...
yes you can...

now go get on some scales.
(oh... don't forget to add the 471$ price tag to your two thousand or what ever conversion total... )

So you have a match for the other VW parts.

Dont forget my PMS bar is still in great shape. I'm sure I can recoup some money from somone who does a small displacement street car.

With the stock FOUR mounts, yes I thought of that already.

If my ( when my ) SIX blows up, I can slap the FOUR back in the car with carbs and still play while tracking down another SIX.

It appears $1500 for my complete 2.0 FOUR is to pricy for this crowd, so I'll keep it around until I need it that one day.

Let's not talk about that anymore though, OK?


KT

says the guy in the 248's post in this thread ...

Andy

NO, no! We can keep this topic alive as long as we please.
It's blowing up my SIX I'd like to forget.


Whoo hoo


KT

Should we be starting up a pool to name the date and place??

$10 bucks that he's not going to make it through this season without braking either the motor mount or the engine ...

Andy

20 says he will make a few trips to home depot for the race car

PVC motor mount anyone?