third pic...

Me trying to find the limits....this was a DNF....

4th pic...

Randal in the tight stuff....

5th pic....

Randal starting in on the backside of the course...

Bill - you get a PHD in “suspension selection” after fielding this car. To handle that well out of the box is pretty respectable.

Guess Brad’s experience also had something to do with it, so he gets a PHD as well.

Might have had something to do with the excellent alignment he got at SPORTECH.
Not to mention the discussion we had with the car on the rack about what to use as base suspension settings for it's first runs.
Shocks on soft and sway bars set front middle setting and rear 2nd softest.
I think the car did pretty well set fairly soft.IMHO

Seems to work pretty well with the weight loss and the nice cage to stiffen up the chassis.

Oh and that muffler sounded pretty sweet up in the RPMs.

You're going to love this....

I talked with Mark at Sportech and we had a mis-communication on the suspension settings....we're aligned all around, but it's still a work in progress...

I wanted...

1. Corner balance
2. ZERO toe front
3. 1/16 toe-in rear
4. -3.0 camber front, -3.25 camber rear

We got...

1. No corner balance...the machine was broken
2. 1 1/16" toe in front...yes ONE and ONE SIXTEENTH toe in front!
3. ZERO toe rear
4. -2.75 camber front, -3.0 camber rear. Currently we are at the limits of the camber plates up front. We may try lowering it down again.

So this thing was handling great and we have massive toe-in right now in the car. I bring the car back in for another full alignment and corner balance on Friday November 10th.

If we thought the car could turn in before...wait till we have ZERO toe in the front....

Bill P.

Bill, all that toe in on the front is probably why it turned in so nicely and did not push at all...
A bit more camber would be nice

Instead of more lowering, how about slotting the strut towers some more first to get more neg camber?

If you get it much lower in the front you won't be able to get those 255s you wanted to try under there without a bit(bunch) of rubbing.

255 and 275 V710s would be killer for AX next season.

A very nice first outing for Lucille.

It will be interesting to hear your comments after you first track event....

When is that going to be again? TH or Sears?

Interesting.

If anything we wanted "toe out" for the front for AutoX and zero for the track. How many late model competition cars do they align? I'm surprised he would even put that on a late model car without questioning you.

I believe the camber plates are going to hit the tub FIRST if you slot the upper tower (which means removing them and machining away material so they dont hit before your slots max out) Another reason for GT3 arms.. -7.00 before you need to do anything up top...

I spec'd the suspension for the class (front and rear bars + spring rates) For the class I suggested rebound only adjustable shocks. This left us with several choices, but the rules committee decided on Bilstein to help keep the cost down. The number 2+3 cars built for the series spent 5k on custom built JRZ's. The intention was to allow people to run Koni's/Bilstein/JIC/Custom rebound only shocks. The guy's thought it would be easier/cheaper if we stuck with Bilstein. I agreed (already had them..lol)

Soo.. my PHD came from testing and more testing.. I started with H&R bars with only the 3 way adjustment on the rear and NO adjustment on the front (they are class legal) but I knew most of the people I run with want to adjust the cars so I suggested the Tarret parts and the GT3 front bar.


B

Dan,

I was loooking at elongating the slots. I'll have to take a look and see if the plates will hit if we move them over anymore than they are.

I'll be at Sears for the first track outing on Sunday, Nov 12th.

B,

Do you think I can lower the car even more to gain camber or our we at the limit? I don't wan't to run out of shock travel. And it would be nice to try some 255's up front...

Do you know what size slicks fit the narrow body car? i.e. 235/640R18 or 250/640R18's?

Bill P.

Honestly Bill, I think you will run out of shock travel soon. Remember: the camber plates already stuck the shock body in the hole... and it was MORE than I anticipated. Not only was it the thickness of the aluminum, but it was also where the monoball was located on the plate (depth)

Look at some of the "stock Boxster" upper mount pictures you will notice that the shock shaft is ABOVE the tub when tightened down. The shaft on your car is buried in the hole.

Biggest CONCERN with the front right now: we may have to pull apart the Bilsteins and cut down the bump stop for the front. We have had to do this on 996TT's for the rear when they are lowered on PSS9's.


B

And the sorting continues........

It's part of the deal...being the guinea pig on the camber plates...the car feels good and is about the same ride height as your black car. Should I try another 1/2 inch of lowering and see what happens?

Bill P.

OPPs... Dan gets a PHD as well!

Randal would have been faster on my suggestion (full soft on the bars)


B

I think 1/2 an inch would be safe. I just dont want you to blow up your new shocks. They dont like to be bottomed out!

Trying to compare the ride heights.. It has the 993 rears on it in this pic and Boxster fronts.

Damn. That 275 looks BEEFY on the back..LOL

Just noticed that!



B

Right now, the black car rubs both inner wheel well plastic pieces. This could be happening for multiple reasons.. but it will happen first towards the front of the fenderwell. It will only wear once.. then you have a small hole. It wont even create an smoke..LOL

1/2 inch looks good. If you had the toe plates you could do this on your own and set the toe at zero.


B

No question we were both on full soft Sunday...

hmmmmm..... check it out:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/227922258.html

Nathan,

Scarf that thing up....BPB Racing (Barrick-Pickering-Breitling)....

Bill P.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell the suspension is doing in the lower right picture??? of the 4.

That is a good price. Not sure why it weighs 100lbs more than the black car WTF?? I'm running the stock back glass window...


B

Lucille did OK for her first time out:

<http://www.pca-ggr.org/acresults/102806.html>

Maybe more people will start running funny suspension settings and switch to "track tires" for autoX....

I've been running 3 year old Victoracers (track tires) all season

I am sure the heat cycled out a long time ago....just hate to get rid of them when they have lots of rubber left.

Next year I will probably try a set of V710s, to compliment my new motor, so I can run with the "Big Dogs" .

Lucille will be very formidable next season with V710s, and a sorted suspension...not to mention a couple of drivers who have figured the "new girl in town out".

I think the Boxster will do well for us and be a top 10 car. I know that Doris will like the PS and PB features. Randal will be chasing Andrew for TTOD with the Raby powered rocket.

I'll be running V710's in the 245/255 variety as Kumho doesn't make a 275 size for the rear. Or I can opt to run the A6's from Hoosier that do have a 275. But it's pretty unanimous that the V710's are the hot ticket for AX, so we'll probably go for them. We will run the Hoosier R6's on the track.

Next up....Sears!

Bill P.

not what i've heard. I've heard that the A6's (not the A3S05's) are every bit as fast as the 710's, if not faster (tho they are mo money). if they have a 275 to boot, then that might be even better -- though it might require more drastic changes from your track setup, depending on what size you run there.

I like the A6's and the R6's as they come in a 240/275 combo versus the V710's in a 245/255. Other than toe settings we will leave the camber settings alone between AX and track and just change the AR bars and the shock rebound.

I hear wear is about equal as far as heat cycles....

I personally had no problem rotating the car with the 275's in the back. I don't know if we would gain or lose anything by going to the V710's in the 255 out back. We're also looking at 18" radial slicks for the car, going the same size all around. Of coursce that forces the purchase of a FOURTH set of rims since I already have 3 sets of the 17 inchers....

And this is supposed to be the "budget" car....

Bill P.

With the bar adjustability you have.. the 255-275 flip will be fine.

I'll get the Michelin/Yoko/Pirelli sizing for you (slicks)



B

What size 18" slicks will fit in front/rear?

Did Bill track the car this weekend? Or is it next weekend?

I'll have the 18 sizing. I was busy all weekend and didnt want to go to the shop.


B

I fly back from Germany on Thursday night. I need to dyno the car on Friday morning and then take it back for an alignment on Friday afternoon. I then will prep and load Saturday. Hopefully I'll get more than a few hours sleep and be up and early Sunday morning for the drive to Infineon.

I asked to be moved from the advanced run group with TM since I won't be driving Fritz and some Nascar cars are supposed to be running in that group. But since the event is full so far they can't move me. Should be fun dicing with some cars with 3x the HP as me!

Bill P.

Bill they are only fast in a straight line or turning left

I will be interested to hear the results on the dyno, and your impressions on the big track.

good luck, keep it shiney.

lol.. i don't think so. i've seen the winston cup cars out at thunderhill. totally sick. good drivers eaily run sub 1:50's. even fast ASC guys run 1:51-2's. you'll be fine out there with them, but do watch your ass.

yea, I have seen them at TH also....very fast in the right hands.

Just kiddin' Bill, you'll be fine.

Interesting. I'm going to be up there this weekend for Jenny's wedding. I *might* stop by. I kinda needed to be back by Sat. night, but I oculd make a detour. I'll have Tiff with me.

Now you have me thinking.. damn it... was trying to avoid thinking this week.



B

You serious?

Wildman...


KT

Wow

Bill,

I'm confirmed. You have track support/help loading Sat. afternoon/evening and Sunday. I'll probably have to leave around 2pm on Sunday. I need to be back here before 10pm.

Do you have communication? Can we get some radios? I would like to be able to take notes from you while you drive. I *might* be able to bring some with me. Your helmet will be the issue. Maybe I'll bring a helmet already wired for racing radio's.



B

Why don't you bring a "chatterbox" and ride along with him?
TMR allows passengers with the waiver, you know.


KT

Brad's butt would toss the chassis off balance and effect the race settings. Sorry Brad but your as tall as I am, I know I would toss that car into a 235 pound weight penality in all the wrong places. In the car!!!!!!

Now I do take passengers on auto-x runs, if the course is mostly right handers, I really need to get mine to the scales.

good luck guys, this is more fun than I am allowed to have.

Brad, are you driving? Can I bring the Fikse's to Sears?

I am driving up, but it will probably be in a CIVIC .. truck needs smogged. I'm trying to bring the truck!!


B

I dont mind instructing, but Bill is past my instruction. SCCA never rides with you. They follow you or drive in front of you. I have never understood the "passenger" thing. It sucks for low powered cars. Everyone wants to ride with me in 2.0 914's..lol I find it difficult to explain that EVERTHING will change when I get out of the car. Braking points.. turn in.. throttle steer...

Not a fan of "passengers"



B

My 2nd pass of dyno results are in. This was where we took off the stock muffler and bolted on a modded muffler from Sportech, a local shop here in Campbell, CA. The interior baffling has being redesigned for better flow and the size of the outlet opening changed.

Our results show the mods were very successful for the stock 2.5L motor. While peak HP is up 1 HP, the 2300 to 6000 RPM rev range shows a very flat HP and TQ curve with most of the range showing 4 to 11.8 HP improvement. Torque is up considerably as well. We made a significant improvement in the meat of the driveable power band.

Here are the HP numbers:

Here are the Torque numbers:

Here is the Dyno Chart:

What was interesting is that I pulled dyno runs on the car with new muffler with the snorkel on the airbox on and with it off. Supposedly this makes the engine breath better. While the intake sound is much nicer, there was NO DIFFERENCE in performance.

Some of the aftermarket companies claim an 8-10 HP improvement with an airbox mod or a replacement. A mod seems to be the only way as you would need to change the airbox to promote different airflow characteristics. Probably combined with a chip mod.

Overall I'm extremely happy with the muffler mod!

Bill P.

I'll try to get some video of you on the track.

Nice work on the power upgrade.


KT

Bill,

I am impressed....I didn't think it would make that big of a difference...

Pretty good for just gutting and a little change in the outlet size...

I guess Mark may be on to something

Glad I convinced him to give it a try....he has been doing the same thing to 911 mufflers for years....another one of those tricks taught to him by the "original" Ken....

Some of those old racer's tricks still work evidently.

Next up is to take a dB reading of the muffler. It would be great to have it pass Laguna. Also I'm looking at headers. Surprisingly not much data out there on independant dyno tests. It seems like headers, intake box mod and a chip would yield decent gains. But it's pricey....

Bill P.

Yes, you need to weigh the HP/torque gains against the cost...but with a 2.5 there really aren't any other options.

From what I have read...headers are the next step along with either sport cats or no cats...

Seems logical for the headers....have you looked at the stock exhaust manifolds...pretty cheesey..

the headers would smooth the exhaust flow not to mention opening things up a bit...
I would think the headers would move the torque band up higher in the rev range...
There is so little out there as far as solid information....on all these mods.
Have you contacted evolution motorsports? They have lots of performance mods for the 2.5 and have tested them together...you might want to give them a ring.
www.evoms.com

Also check Eagleday.com for exhaust components from Schnell, stuff looks pretty nice and is much cheaper than some of the other brands...
Headers, cat bypass pipes etc.

It is only money Bill

I keep a Db meter in my camera bag.
I can take some readings for you if you like.


KT