Click to view attachment
1978 RT overhead

Click to view attachment
HotRod Hessian

Click to view attachment
Spyder

Click to view attachment
His later model,Imperator.

Click to view attachment
Top View

Click to view attachment
WankelPower

Click to view attachment
What to do in Sweden.Building flat eights,a great idea.

Click to view attachment
Driveby V8,MB powered.

Click to view attachment
OneMillionHeartBeats

Click to view attachment
Can'tBeDone?

Click to view attachment
DifficultToDo
/

More of the 8-cyl Type IV

But why Carbs vs MFI or Slide-Valve Injection?

Those aren't carbs. They're ITB fuel injection.

Mark you could turbo the sh!t out of that.

What Lind accomplished hadn't been attempted here in North America.
No doubt the same vibration characteristics were present as Porsche's version.
A masterpiece in ingenuity and fortitude to complete.He speaks Porsche very well.

(Edit:08/18/16):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWeNPi2XkE


http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2016/01/ko...ft-free-engine/
http://jalopnik.com/what-its-like-to-ride-...gine-1529865968

Some kind of wonderful.
Opens up a whole new life for piston engines,so very programmable.
Kudos.

/

Actually, if you do some reading, that is the very reason why Porsche went to a center driven cooling fan that ran off a 90 degree angle drive on their flat /8 racing engines.

It is quite an eye opener to read about their vibration issues with the long crank and how they went about solving those issues.

I thought the firing order thing was how they finally solved the vibration problems in the 908 motors?

Some of the 908s, at least, used an upright fan that is very similar to the standard 911 one.

When they built the "912" engine (for the 917) they used a center take-off as the only option. The long crank twisted too much to have the take-off at the end.

--DD

Donor Motor for the Limo?

I can't remember where i read that article, it was an interview with the guy who designed the 908 engine.
Old Pano maybe???

It's a really interesting read ...

So.
I recently took possession of two(2)2.7L(164") Corvair engines.

I doubt it would be as simple as merely welding sawn,machined cases together,

then,installing a custom crank and cam.The problem then becomes the cylinder heads.
Metal joining technology has come a long way since '65.
Look,if that guy out there in boonville Norway(er..corr Sweden) can do it,what,if only money,is stopping us(me)?
It is a matter of will.Luke,do or not do.

/
(edit:08/14/16):

-------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----------------------------------------------------

Click to view attachment

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/boxer-engi...-8-project.html
Hmmm..Seems the flat eight affliction is not confined to Porsche enthusiasts,it's catching.

/

(Edit:08/17/16):
The context,an answer to a question posed to 'engine dorks' about crankenrods.

Click to view attachment
HD
You could use a knife and fork rod set,the pistons in line,radially.
The advantage of the 'boxer' design is the cancelling of the primary unbalance forces.
Pointers:
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...a%20boxer%20six
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...boxer+animation
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...nd%20g%20forces
The crankshaft is connected to the wristpin by the,'connecting rod',holding the piston,with the piston,or 'wrist' pin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-KSsaH-3b0


Dorks,and Boffins,working at Porsche,MercedesBenz,Ferrari,and other manufacturers,for centuries.
You can join them here,bring a slide rule.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...+degree+florida

11,768 m/s² 1200Gs - Deceleration of a woodpecker's head!

/

'Boxer': Pistons move in opposite directions,a crankpin for each piston.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_g_K0nyGHQ


180* 'Flat' 12: Pistons move in same direction,sharing the same crankpin,like the V-12.

https://youtu.be/j_g_K0nyGHQ?t=23


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3CkVwtOPX4


The 911 motor is a 'Boxer',the 917's motor (912) is not.
Because the length of the crank is greater with the boxer configuration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KdpzL3Hkk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o8E4WCC4F8


Need to know:
http://www.pattakon.com/
http://www.pattakon.com/pattakonEduc.htm

http://bestplay.pk/watch/V6PGO03K6cI
Like the Merlin V12 engine above,the 180* flat engine has 6 crankpins,just like the Boxer Six.
The crank is offset 3" to grind the 6" stroke crank,27L.
/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZ9RD6BTMw

http://www.e31.net/engines_e.html

Technology Terminology,for to make communicate.Some,obviously,are not on the same page.
Needing a part,called a part store,"Do you sell 'whatchyamacallits',for my motor thingy?".


The reason for the forked 'Connecting Rod',is performance,the reduction of engine weight.
The HD,and the RR,have their cylinders opposite each other,in the same plane.The greater complexity of manufacture was a calculated compromise.
The weight of the crankshaft was reduced,as the secondary unbalance forces were nulled by the inline cylinders,less vibration.
The shared crankpin of the 917 engine's side by side,'conrods',are the result,also,of a compromise in the cost of manufacture,and simplicity
The proposal for such forked rods,in the initial design stages of the 917 engine,was rejected,as their mass was unsuitable for the high rpm engine.
Two different applications,two different results,both of which excelled in their field.

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...iston%20engines
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...connecting+rods
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antiq...-merlin-306661/
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Scat-932911-...troke,3181.html
https://rideapart.com/articles/birth-harley...on-v-twin-motor

Click to view attachment
RR Merlin crank.Forged,hollow,tubular and light.Sheffield.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/4...ine-Restoration
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gener...ankshaft-73615/

Click to view attachment
The finish anvil below,one of _.

Looking to make a piston engine?



So,yeah,a flat 180-12 engine can have the cylinders inline,the boxer's must be offset.The offset distance is the thickness of the web,rod and journal,if any.
A method to circumvent the offset,with minimal complexity.:
Click to view attachment

/

Click to view attachment
Boxer Cranks

Click to view attachment
MercedesBenz auto V12

Click to view attachment
Bmw auto V12

Click to view attachment
Diamler Benz DB 605 V12 Crank

Click to view attachment
912 Shafts
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...+917+engine+fan

Click to view attachment
Twin Supra V12 crank,heavy man.

So,you were thinking of a flat 12 914.



/
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/cran...ght-crankshaft/
/

Click to view attachment

A passion for the 914,shared with others.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...ahn&tbm=vid
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...-flat-12-a.html
http://gtspirit.com/2013/12/29/remarkable-...al-porsche-917/
911+911=flat12!
The freedom to do a build of your own,a personal vision,and version of your 914.

/

Pie in the sky ramblings of malarky.

Click to view attachment
After the Cosmic Rain
The whatif of gearheads everywhere is what makes all of this wrenching so worthwhile.
Certainly,few of us here are motivated only by $$reward.Rather,we support the specialists out there.
They need the money,you need the 'stuff',

Click to view attachment
A MS Paint drawing from the '90s,to show the kids how to use the pc,called it 'Veloce'.

/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4IR6Ukv7gk


Isdera
Eberhard Shulz.
He started out as the Erator GTE builder and developed into a wonderful designer.I even like his first off.
There's a youtube of it being thrashed through the black forest.
A showcase of the builders dream realized.A successful talent in auto design.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7dnobhDFI


Midengined straight-6 or V8 sports type.
Oh Yeah,
Made the cover of Road+Track.
Then Years later,tested at speed by Paul Frere,
176MPH=Stable,Tight.(Yes:176mph).As timed by R+T.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOeTKlCPOss

/

Why on earth would you bother with a push rod engine ??

Hmmmmm?!?!?!?

Click to view attachment

Velly interestink.
I presume the 'trunk'is in the middle,or perhaps the fuel tank has been relocated to the vacant engine bay.
For lack of a better description a VW-914-T1-4.For those whose inclinations are bug-love.Does it work?
Sure.

Click to view attachment

In the interest of keeping this a Porsche
relevant thd.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-aAMr5kySg


Conclusion:Porsche solved the vibes.Revs?Many questions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpMGPUMyXE


Mr Lind apparently had a Swedish Co. do his crank and cam.
http://enem.se/ib.asp
Anyone here source their parts from Sweden?

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

>on UAC
[
Type 4 Unleashed
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
M-Owen wrote:
Did you ever get an answer from this site?
Yes I did, and was signed up.
Two guys built this motor, Julle & Lind, it had even been upgraded to a 4.6 ltr, they had upgraded to 101.6 mm P/C's.
The motor is currently in a 914, and had been taken up to 167 mph and it still was pulling, but engine temps were climbing, so he slowed it down.
This would be a wild project.
]

Indeed,lessee...$/Lb.:Porsche-8 versus Lind-built T4-8
The idea Lind+Julle could run that 8 with a welded crank I think is doubtful.
Having attracted worldwide attention,would they repeat the feat for a customer?

How the heck do you fit that thing in a 914????

--DD

The Question is how did he do it at all.
Likely every 3rd person who saw it under construction
had doubts of success or even completion.
Point Made.

Heavier than air machines Can Fly!!

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

That double T4-8 makes me so friggen moist

Post #66806
A 914/Cayenne for the Paris-Dakar Rally.With a 959 drivetrain.OohLaLa.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2thf2NwMYE


Great idea.

Laguna Seca

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsf8S3qgwX8

sounds good.
A GT of Sicily

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Albnb3xQdo

a How To.

Those are Not push rod engines ...

Those are Not push rod engines ...

The Evolution of Design.
A Flat 8 built today may actually be superior in every way.
Definitely Expensive.
Well,There is 1 Factory 914-8.
(corr:2 actually,thanks Dave)
Exclusive Territory.
Hmmm...

Click to view attachment
Another part for your 908 powered 914.

There are two of them, the silver one that was built for the Dr. for his birthday, and the orange one built for Piech.

There were rumors of a third one that was built after-hours a number of years later, but those are unconfirmed....

--DD

I recalled an animation from a few yrs ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh7J8DSDZAg


edit:this animation shows the crank in an interspersed configuration.
a 4cyl crank in the middle,another split and joined at each end,hence the harmonics.
The successful 908 crank is 2 4cyl cranks joined at 90* angle.

http://www.jabiru.net.au/

Click to view attachment

Engine Features
4 Stroke
3300cc (200 cubic inches)
6 Cylinder Horizontally Opposed
1 Central Camshaft
Fully Machined Aluminium Alloy Crankcase
Over Head Valves (OHV) - Push Rod Operated
Ram Air Cooled
Wet Sump Lubrication - 4 litre capacity
Direct Propeller Drive
Dual Transistorised Magneto Ignition
Integrated AC Generator
Electric Starter
Mechanical Fuel Pump
Naturally Aspirated - 1 Pressure Compensating Carburetor


This is the 5L -8
It is,at this date out of production.

Click to view attachment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabiru_5100

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...8#q=jabiru+5100

The 8 sounds real good

For those who aren't moneyshy,not cheap.
High quality,aero-style.

see more:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=250515

animation of types:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvpFcSPtDV0

nice work.

Aircraft engines are not good candidates for car engines. They do not rev the same and the cams are meant to get power in a narrow band. Same is true for a converted corvair engine.

Oh Yeah.
The aircraft billet engine is for aircraft,that said,the idea that the average m/c shop
equipped with modern tools can crank out specials is valid.
I'm still hankering for the 4valve heads that Martin Bott developed for T4's
The Jabiru from Oz isn't the only fully cnc'd engine type.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsmiIeAkE-o

F1?Prostock?Prototype
/
http://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/93509...ne-cases-2.html
/

Click to view attachment
A fellow up here in Ontario,also known as TasmanDevil.
Unrecognisable as a Fiero.TPI V8 Transverse.
Gorgeous Paint(Jag BlackCherry Metallic)Full Leather.
Absolutely Impeccable.
http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/Ultimate.cgi
For those of you interested in an American MidEngine as a 2nd car,and an object of worship on the alter of the jackstands.

/

Unrecognizable? "Fiero" was the first thing that went through my head when I looked at the picture...

--DD

What pic? That link takes me to a list with no pics

Never mind, the Fiero pic loaded in the thread. I looks like a Fiero

UhHuh.
So it's true then,a leopard can't change it's spots.
But a V8 into a 914 or Fiero can enhance your power trip.
An entire aftermarket exists for your personal magic carpet.
Some parts not included.
Some assembly required.
The lowly Fieros and 914s made new and improved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtkP5gTX6Hc

Any Takers here?
Quote
Flat 8 Porsche Engine
A mate is making a flat 8 engine for a replica 908. He has used two 2.7lt magnesium blocks that we wirecut at my work and has welded them together in a jig. First time he has welded mag and it is a steep learning curve with the pre heating/jigging and post stress relieving. Here are the photos of his second attempt. He still has 1mm of bend after welding but is making a different jig that will be stronger and keep the heat more stable (he was saying 5 mins after welding and it was cool enough to handle).
Unquote
Click to view attachment

http://performanceforums.com/forums/showth...-Porsche-Engine

from '11

Why not use an aluminum case?

Yes. Yes, you do.

Because RACECAR!! (Mag is lighter.)

--DD

Found some old links re:flat-8 at PerformanceForums

http://jalopnik.com/5799726/emerson-...kswagen-beetle


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXKcpbFF7WI

"Excellent, the pressure is great, Today is March 19th, 2009, and tomorrow, we will be recorded for the show,
'Auto Esporte'. Good work Marco, Good work Arlindo"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zto2UDCUyoY

The vids have be online a few years.
These guys make it look easy.Wanted a Flat-8,Made one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF9j6G4bkZg

Some headway's been made

Custom flat-8 crank from Oz.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/sh...he-Engine/page2

Can't be cheap.
Building a 908 tribute from scratch,to a fine resolution.

Click to view attachment
Fer sail
Click to view attachment
Wider to fit,with or without flares.
Click to view attachment
early corsa
Click to view attachment
late corsa 8
(what a '77 914/911/944 morph looks like)

Click to view attachment
nice crank.corvair aero app
they are able to do -8's
to similar specs 2.5K+
/

Any progress on welding the 2.7 cases together?

billh1963:
I looked at the performanceforum thd recently,and from what was described the case weldment requires further welding.
Magnesium castings are no doubt difficult to do to a machined tolerance.He was able to get within 1mm(0.039")runout through the mains bores,
which all things considered,is a notable success.So,some layup on the mainbores and parting faces to be remachined,to straighten it up X2.
A ton of very difficult work.Inspired by their efforts,a minor change in plans will be applied to my own P14.
The intent was to run the 2L until I found some issues with the valve guides,and since I now have the Corvair 6's,I believe the initial cost of a 14-6 will be tolerable,
originality deferred temporarily.The idea of creating a flat 8 using Corvair blocks welded and machined can't possibly be original,though the net has not revealed an attempt.
The CNC shop doing the billet corvair cranks are a likely source for a 90-degree 8 pin crank.A fewer number of main bearing pins may be a serious problem for the
vibration characteristics of such a long crank.More research is needed.
Here is a site (edit:11/05//15(http://www.pattakon.com/))that makes balance software available.
The Porsche drawing I've posted here shows the 90 degree pins interspersed with the 0 degree pins.
The 2 billet cranks made in Australia appear to be the other method,which I believe is the solution Porsche used to tame the harmonic vibrations inherent with the original design.
The price of a crank made to these specs is not cheap,so what to do if you're really hankering for a flat 8?Cut weld...?
Seriously,a talented welder with some rod may git er done.A lot of work.

Click to view attachment
OK.here's the plan..
Get 2 sets of cases,and weld them together after machining the front and rear off each respective set.
Front 2 and rear 2.Makes a long case to carry 8 cylinders.
Look,if the guy in Aus can weld magnesium cases,it would have to be easier to do the same to 356 T6 alloy cases.
Marginally easier admittedly,but possible to achieve the exalted F-8.
Fun with TIG,in an oven,inert gas flushed...
/
(edit:08/08/16):
Click to view attachment

Samba-2-4-6-8
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=399470

Click to view attachment
Well,the fellow in Australia has the right idea,wire edm cutting the cases to key each other together.
Still,tubular shafts,ground to the mains and cam dia +0.0004"/-0 for alignment is essential.
Otherwise,a near hopeless adventure,preparation of the weld groove is critical,minimum weld added.
Tough job,all around.For sure a worthy aspiration,wanting -8,pushrod even.More cylinders,more better.


Click to view attachment
Even these cases could be sixed,356-6.Custom crossflow center head too.


Click to view attachment
A VW Boxer Six,a neato version of the Corvair engine.
Clearly,a welded crank.Note the main journal's discoloration and heat affected zone.
The -8 crank is done in a similar way,two -4 cranks welded together,90* apart.

http://carocha.forumeiros.com/t477-transfo...com-8-cilindros

Click to view attachment
Mounted Mid in a 914,this is the right side of the engine,pretty nice looking.
I want to build a few,and I know,some of you want one too.

Click to view attachment
Some real expertise demonstrated here,kudos.Note the cam nose profiles,long duration,mushroom lifters,a revver.

/

I like this!

There was a guy....on Ferrari chat with some amazing machinist and tig welding skills, and allot of energy. He decided to make his own 12 cylinder engine. He had a machine shop in his basement. The thread ran for years. It blew up.

So I think it is cool you are attempting this, and wish you the best of luck! You may want to try and source every existing part that would fit and design around them.

Me, I would just drop an LS engine in there. But I seriously get where you are coming from!

Here is the thread. It's 101 pages long. It will suck you in! And, there is no ending because some nastiness occurred and the admins shut it down.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/1...ion-begins.html