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mepstein
QUOTE(sb914 @ Nov 1 2019, 11:43 AM) *

Glad you didn’t hurt yourself and your car is semi fine !


Yes, Wow. Dodged a bullet. Usually there is a lone tree or big boulder in the spot you go off.
Optimusglen
I had originally started a new thread for my 911T engine build, now I'm thinking it's better off that I link it back into this.

Cliff notes: I bought a 1971 911T core engine for a decent price. Turned over freely, but no history. Stripped it apart and was pleasantly surprised with just about everything. Case inserts already in place, everything measures out nicely except for the case bore which is off just enough that I need to get machine work. I had the heads all rebuilt and they have been waiting patiently on a shelf in my office. The case work stalled out while I diverted my "fun" budget to other things.

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Ok, now you're up to speed. I finally decided it's time to get serious about this engine. I will be sending the case out to Ollie's in the coming week or two and to do that I needed to pull the studs.

I've read all sorts of stories about stud removal and decided to get one of these since I wasn't going to be re-using the studs.

Stud extractor by Ares tool
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This thing made life so much easier, it took about 20 min to pull these 12. The rest I am going to do tonight then package it all up.

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Over the past year or two I did sell off a few items to fund some software I needed for my art/rendering. I will be replacing these things once the case is done and the fund replenishes.

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Onto the car!

Last fall when the temps were dropping I was trying to get the car out for one last romp, test the seat, fill it with fuel and then winterize it. It was a bit too cold and I couldn't get it going, and in the process I think I fried my old starter. It was the original item from when I bought the car so I knew the day would come eventually. So that means a new starter is on the agenda for this season. Ordered one from Eric at PMBPerformance.

If you have been following the thread you know that I have a front valance issue from my little "off". I was going to replace the LE style replica with another LE style replica, but am now considering going back to the factory panel as I still have it and it's in good shape. I do like the meaty look with no panel too, but would want to paint the visible bits black if I left it as-is. I also need new pads, the old/current Mintex pads (these were NOS, in the trunk of the car when I bought it) were a large contributing factor to that "off" so with some research I decided to go with what Eric at PMB recommends, the Porterfield pads front and rear.

I DID get the new seat from GTSClassics installed, I'm pleased with the fit and finish. I was going to take my maiden voyage with the new seat when I couldn't get it started. So the jury is still out in that regard. Install was straightforward though.

One final item is that I have a set of H4 headlights. I want to relay them when I install though so it wont be a simple plug and play.

sb914
Are those heads real ? poke.gif They look like one of you awesome renderings!
Optimusglen
QUOTE(sb914 @ Feb 3 2020, 11:43 AM) *

Are those heads real ? poke.gif They look like one of you awesome renderings!


biggrin.gif They are real indeed! I brought them to the best local guy, he has a lot of experience with Porsche heads. Thankfully these were virgin, never touched by anyone other than the factory. New valves, guides, seals. I did buy a set of used springs. He tested them all they they were within spec and perfectly suitable for a stock 2.2T rebuild.
rudedude
Glen,
I put led headlights in Jasons car and you can't believe the light he has, much better than mine with relayed lights. Might want to think of using led's rather than putting in wiring and relays.
Jule
Optimusglen
QUOTE(rudedude @ Feb 3 2020, 01:32 PM) *

Glen,
I put led headlights in Jasons car and you can't believe the light he has, much better than mine with relayed lights. Might want to think of using led's rather than putting in wiring and relays.
Jule



Do you relay the LED headlights too, or keep the factory wiring?
mepstein
QUOTE(Optimusglen @ Feb 3 2020, 03:07 PM) *

QUOTE(rudedude @ Feb 3 2020, 01:32 PM) *

Glen,
I put led headlights in Jasons car and you can't believe the light he has, much better than mine with relayed lights. Might want to think of using led's rather than putting in wiring and relays.
Jule



Do you relay the LED headlights too, or keep the factory wiring?

I used factory wiring with mine. LED's draw less amps so should be easier on the wires than stock.
Optimusglen
Found a local guy selling a 4 rib pump for my build. I'll be having the oil bypass mod done when it's at the machine shop. It has also been recommended to send out the pump to get rebuild/modded for flow by a good friend who has built several high end 911's.

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Optimusglen
Project update:

-the 911 2.2T case is at Ollie's getting the work done. It did have head stud inserts, but we're opting to have those removed and they are going to do their case savers. Price was a bit higher than I was expecting after looking at their online price list, but the timeframe is also pretty long so it is giving me time to build the fun stuff budget up a bit before completely draining it, haha. Might be able to start engine assembly later this summer, and install it in the fall or winter.

-I purchased a tuna can from 914werke, I wish I had done it sooner. Maiden voyage after the install saw no decrease in oil pressure on back-to-back cloverleafs. I'm certainly very happy with it.

-I decided to take Jules (and others) advice and get the LED headlights from 914Rubber. I had purchased a set of H4 housings last year. At least I thought they were H4 at the time, turns out they were not (used, Craigsist deal from a Jeep guy I think) Discovered that when going for the install and just put all the stock parts back in until I can get the right housings.

-Haven't had a chance to install the Porterfield brake pads yet, but I did pick up some fluid so I can bleed the system at the same time.

-Pulled my old stock lower front valance out of deep garage storage, cleaned it up a little and plan on putting it back on for now. No use making it look perfect if the rest of the car is well patina'd.

-I picked up a laminated wood shift knob from TRE Motorsports. So far I like it.


Current short term plans:

-replace the dash face material again, this time yanking out the heater controls. I'd also like to recover the top dash. And I'm going to go with 3 Heuer timers for a bit, my daughter loves to play with them while we're driving (she's 3)

-recover the steering wheel again. I learned a lot of lessons when I did this one last year and I'd like to incorporate them into a new wrap.


For now, here are a few interior shots of how it is currently.

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On the down side, yesterday while driving I ran into an issue with it. As a reminder it's a 1.9 built from a 1.7 running dual Weber IDF40's. I got on it a little from a light and after that the problem arose. The car idles way high, like 3k rising to 4k, I shut it down before it went higher. The strange thing is that the throttle pedal and cable are fine, and the throttles themselves on the carbs are closed. Any thoughts or insight is appreciated. I'm going to chew on it a few days before asking officially for help but I'm guessing I'm going to have to yank the carbs and figure it out.
Optimusglen
QUOTE(Optimusglen @ Apr 27 2020, 08:06 PM) *


On the down side, yesterday while driving I ran into an issue with it. As a reminder it's a 1.9 built from a 1.7 running dual Weber IDF40's. I got on it a little from a light and after that the problem arose. The car idles way high, like 3k rising to 4k, I shut it down before it went higher. The strange thing is that the throttle pedal and cable are fine, and the throttles themselves on the carbs are closed. Any thoughts or insight is appreciated. I'm going to chew on it a few days before asking officially for help but I'm guessing I'm going to have to yank the carbs and figure it out.


Well, good news/bad news.

I purchased rebuild kits for the carbs, but then just didn't have any time to dig into it. Work is very busy right now. So I had it towed down to Further performance, they did the initial tuning on these carbs when I built it. They diagnosed the carb issue as a broken return spring really pretty quick, but when they started it is when they heard the issue.

I guess it had the terrible clack-clack that only comes from bad rod bearings. It was able to run but there was no telling how long it would be until the rods exercised themselves from the case a'la the Alien.

Now, since I have the 6 cylinder case at Ollie's due to be finished up in early July, it just doesn't make sense to put any effort whatsoever into the 4-cyl. This shop specializes in old aircooled VW's and Porsches and they said they could use it as a core, so they pulled it and stuck it on their shelf and I towed the car home sans-engine. They will put the value towards the tuning on the 6 once it's in the car.

The good news in all this is that it kindof forces my hand towards the swap. I had been working towards it but since the 4 had been running fine and it was still a blast to drive, I wasn't going hard after getting all the pieces in place.

The bad news is that it ends my driving season way early, in Minnesota the good driving months are few as it is already. Happy I got a couple good drives in at least.

I put together an updated list of the major things I still need to buy or do for the swap, and it's a bit daunting... sad.gif

-clutch,pressure plate, throwout bearing if needed
-oil tank and lines
-modification to be case mounted oil cooler for 914 fitment. plus cleaning and testing
-headers and modification of my muffler that I bought from Ben McFarland
-new alternator
-alternator fan shroud/duct (the inner air guide piece)
-clean/inspect/hone my cylinders and pistons, replace if necessary
-piston rings
-spark plugs,wires,distributor cap and rotor
-air filters and hats for the Zeniths
-throttle linkage
-engine tins

-get my oil pump rebuilt
-weld in my engine mount

-PUT IT ALL TOGETHER


...and on and on it goes.

Optimusglen
the 12 week mark has come and gone. I messaged Ollies and they said another 2-3 weeks. So we're looking at the end of July.

A friend locally (Aaron from FlatSix) is checking out my pistons and cylinders to gauge if I can reuse them with cleanup.

Tins from Ben McFarland arrived a day or two ago. look awesome and I cant wait to fit them.

Otherwise it's just been sitting in the garage slowly getting covered with dust.
mepstein
Make sure to measure everything you get back from Ollie’s. They’ve been having quality control issues for a while now.
mepstein
If you need an alternator for a rebuild, let me know. I have a core or two that I’ll send for the cost of shipping. I can have it rebuilt for you at my cost, usually $75-125.
Optimusglen
QUOTE(mepstein @ Jul 13 2020, 12:40 PM) *

Make sure to measure everything you get back from Ollie’s. They’ve been having quality control issues for a while now.



Oh no, first I've heard of that. Isn't Ollie's the go-to for case work?

I don't have the tools to accurately measure bores, any suggestions on how to check it out?

And I don't have an alternator yet but I will need one at some point. I also don't know of anywhere to rebuild so I might have to take you up on that at some point if it's available in the future. Currently not enough car budget funds to go around to all the different things I need for this.
mepstein
QUOTE(Optimusglen @ Jul 13 2020, 02:54 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jul 13 2020, 12:40 PM) *

Make sure to measure everything you get back from Ollie’s. They’ve been having quality control issues for a while now.



Oh no, first I've heard of that. Isn't Ollie's the go-to for case work?

I don't have the tools to accurately measure bores, any suggestions on how to check it out?

And I don't have an alternator yet but I will need one at some point. I also don't know of anywhere to rebuild so I might have to take you up on that at some point if it's available in the future. Currently not enough car budget funds to go around to all the different things I need for this.


The offer is available to you as long as I have the proper core for you. There's no money in selling cores so they sit in storage. Many places have alternator and starter rebuilding services. Ours is located at a large battery seller.

I've heard it from two well respected engine builders who got parts back from Ollie's that where well out of spec. The feeling is when the kids took over from the original owner, quality control has been low. They aren't measuring after machining so things are slipping through the cracks.
I'm no engine builder but I believe many builders will assemble the short block and torque the bolts as a dry run before sealant. I guess short of measuring you want to make sure everything spins smoothly. But any good machine shop should be able to give you written post machining measurements. But you probably have to request and not just assume.

"Neil Harvey" -
Can I assume you did not check the case or crank before reassembly?

Here are few things that need to be checked.
Main housing alignment and size.
Crank straightness. They never are.
Bearing ID fitted to the case and torqued.
Crankshaft journal diameter.
From these you can calculate the clearances.

You probably have other case issues you may not be aware of as well. The case should be thoroughly cleaned, the galley plugs removed, piston oiling valves checked, by pass checked if done, all perimeter studs removed and the case parting faces lapped before measuring main housing bore, all threaded bores checked and repaired, just to name a few.

This all adds up so don't be surprised at the final cost.

We line bore cases oversize only. We do not deck and bore back to std. We are probably a little more expensive than the other main players but we typically turn cases around in 1-2 weeks, which includes all the work listed above. We do this work in house for all of our engine customers and occasionally do outside work. We deliberately keep it this way so the turnaround time is days not months.

The more you do your self the less the total will be. Clean the case well, and remove the 8.00mm studs. This saves a lot of time and $$."

I would search pelicans engine building forum and read everything Neil Harvey has written. He talks a lot about what to do before you build.
Optimusglen
The 3 week mark has come and gone. I emailed Ollie's and it sounds like they're finishing it up soon. they say 2-3 days.

The 4-rib oil pump is freshly rebuilt and on a UPS truck right now.

Front 911 struts and hubs are ready to rock, getting a pair of Brembo calipers via Eric at PMB. Will need a new MC I think since I still have the 17mm unit in place.

I'm on Ben's list for an oil tank/filler, he will also be doing the 911 oil cooler modification for me, and we're going to work out all AN lines. No front cooler since it's a stock 2.2T

New clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, and all related bushings/washers/felt thing etc are ready to roll.

MSDS headers on order, silver ceramic coated. Man I can't wait to see those. Should be shipping soon.

123Ignition distributor is here along with an MSD StreetFire, new coil, and a converter for the tach.


I have just about everything either ordered or I have it already. Just need to get my case back and start putting things together.
Optimusglen
Parts are arriving.

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Ceramic coated 1.5" headers from Marty at MSDS

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my 4 rib oil pump rebuilt by Henry at Supertech Performance

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Case is back from Ollie's (don't worry, they sent the other half too)


Vents and jets are on their way for the Zeniths


Excited to finally start assembly!
porschetub
QUOTE(Optimusglen @ Aug 12 2020, 04:53 PM) *

Parts are arriving.

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Ceramic coated 1.5" headers from Marty at MSDS

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my 4 rib oil pump rebuilt by Henry at Supertech Performance

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Case is back from Ollie's (don't worry, they sent the other half too)


Vents and jets are on there way for the Zeniths


Excited to finally start assembly!


Glen ,case looks great and those headers drooley.gif .
What are your plans for the Zeniths?,cheers.

Optimusglen
QUOTE(porschetub @ Aug 12 2020, 12:28 AM) *


Glen ,case looks great and those headers drooley.gif .
What are your plans for the Zeniths?,cheers.


30mm venturis, 55 idle jets and 130mm main jets. As a starting point. From there I'll have a bud of mine fine tune, or swap out jets as necessary. He runs a shop that specializes in these and old VWs and did my Type4 when I was getting my 914 going.
horizontally-opposed
So fired up for you, Glen!

The six conversion is something so many of us -4 owners have thought or dreamed about, and for all the anticipation and "I know" factor, even after riding in or driving someone else's, there is nothing like the first drive—and then all of the subsequent drives. It completely changes the character of your 914, and that transformation is maybe the coolest part. I miss the handling "flickability," but that's about it. The noises it makes, the power, and the specialness of having Porsche's most iconic engine in its lightest, best balanced production road-car chassis are impossible to overstate.

As you'll soon see…
Optimusglen
QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Aug 12 2020, 08:15 AM) *

So fired up for you, Glen!

The six conversion is something so many of us -4 owners have thought or dreamed about, and for all the anticipation and "I know" factor, even after riding in or driving someone else's, there is nothing like the first drive—and then all of the subsequent drives. It completely changes the character of your 914, and that transformation is maybe the coolest part. I miss the handling "flickability," but that's about it. The noises it makes, the power, and the specialness of having Porsche's most iconic engine in its lightest, best balanced production road-car chassis are impossible to overstate.

As you'll soon see…


@horizontally-opposed Thank you!

Kris and I were just talking about it the other night when he asked if I wanted to give his 911 with the new PMO's a drive. I declined, not because I didn't like the setup (how could you not like a '72 911 with that motor) I declined because the experience is never the same as when it's your own baby. That and all I can see are dollar signs on his tachometer.

Besides, after driving his car at one point in the past it only managed to cement the preference of the seating position and feel of a 914. Yep, I'm a lifer.

In project news, I spent a day cleaning, gauging and installing my rods last week. Somehow I think I only ordered 8 rod bolts way back when, so I had to order up a few more. The crank is now assembled with all of the rods but then I decided to order new chains instead of reusing my old ones. Old ones looked fine, I guess, but it's fairly cheap peace of mind.

I also ordered up a few misc items that I hadn't purchased yet, i.e. chain guides, locking tab washers for the oil pump, etc etc. So assembly of the engine will resume next week at some point when I can slip the crank, oil pump, and all related pieces into the case then button it all up.

In the handling arena there's some news as well.

I've always thought the stance wasn't quite right on my car. A touch too much rake. I have Bilsteins on the back but no adjustment other than the slots to reposition the base ring. I decided to jump into some Ground Control adjustable sleeves and higher spring rate springs (140#). Both for the adjustability and to handle the extra weight of the 6-cyl.

Up front I'll be sticking with the -4 control arms and 911 3" struts. But now a set of Brembo AM calipers from PMB Performance and a 19mm master cylinder from 914Rubber will be handling the braking.

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I snagged a 22mm front sway bar on here a while back, sans hardware. In all likelihood that'll sit on the shelf until all of the big stuff is done or until I have to remove the tank for some reason.
Optimusglen
The engine build progresses.

The case is together with the important bits inside. Studs are installed. I went to start fitting my rings and discovered that I had the wrong rings. I had a set from Goetze purchased from FCPEuro that were supposed to be correct for the 911/07 but turns out the rings required for the KS pistons are different. So, returning the rings and purchased some others. I asked and looked all over, the only options were Deves and Total Seal custom rings. I took the advice of a very professional Porsche engine builder and friend and went with Deves because I have cast iron cylinders. I also used Deves in my 1911 and everything went smoothly there (until it didn't)

My bud Mikey over at this place called 914Rubber hooked me up. The air horns on my Zenith carbs were all kinds of crusty and he zapped them with his polisher and they're super fine now. Waiting on my inner venturis to get back to me to finish buttoning up the carbs then I'll snag some pics.

And the oil tank and filler neck arrived from Ben at 914-6werkshop.com It looks great and something that totally makes sense but I didn't think about until I opened the box was how much LIGHTER this new tank from Ben is when compared to the old Vellios tank I was going to build. If you've read further back, early on in the project I purchased two raw halves of a Vellios tank, I was going to make a project of it and have a local friend weld it up. Then I was going to have Ben do all of the tank. And then it just made sense to buy one of Bens tanks and sell the Vellios off. Glad I did!

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horizontally-opposed
^ Never thought about the weight of Ben's tank. Curious how much different than the Vellios, and the stock tank for that matter.

Missed your post above, and 140# springs seem to be a sweet spot for street-driven 914s, fours and (small) sixes alike. They were always great in my car when it was a four, and I wondered about moving up to 160s when I put the six in but have not felt any need to do so. Maybe if I go to 215s in the rear at time point. We'll see.

I think you're going to like those Brembos, and I dig your chosen finish. Very tactical…
Mark Henry
QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Sep 17 2020, 12:46 PM) *

^ Never thought about the weight of Ben's tank. Curious how much different than the Vellios, and the stock tank for that matter.

Missed your post above, and 140# springs seem to be a sweet spot for street-driven 914s, fours and (small) sixes alike. They were always great in my car when it was a four, and I wondered about moving up to 160s when I put the six in but have not felt any need to do so. Maybe if I go to 215s in the rear at time point. We'll see.

I think you're going to like those Brembos, and I dig your chosen finish. Very tactical…


The weight difference would be negligible, I imagine less than 10#, the big difference (advantage) would be Ben's tank holds more oil.
Only way you'll fit 215 tires is by rolling/pulling the fenders. I have 205 and barely have a 1/4" space on stock '74 rear fenders. This is for both the 205/60-15 and 205/55, using both 6' Fuchs and cookies. Also 215 is an oddball size, if you think 205/60 is hard to find in a good summer tire compound the 215 may be next to impossible.

I have 160# springs, Bilstein's all round, Alfa Brembo's, full motion bushings (actually they're bearings) PMB V-calipers (stock with spacers, vented rears), stock rear sways and a 22mm Tarrett hollow sway bar. It's a real good set-up, if anything a little stiff for a street car, but totally acceptable. Only thing I'm going to do this winter is weld in an inner long kit.

IMHO your 140# springs will be fine.
Optimusglen
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Sep 17 2020, 05:38 PM) *


The weight difference would be negligible, I imagine less than 10#, the big difference (advantage) would be Ben's tank holds more oil.


Admittedly, I sold the Vellios parts before I thought to weigh them but I would guess-timate that it was right around the 10lb mark. It just felt significant to me. In the grand scheme of things that doesn't matter much especially since it's fairly centered front/rear, but weight is weight, and every little bit helps if you're trying to cut it out.

Speaking of which, I should probably cut dessert for a few weeks...
Optimusglen
Update time!

I've been making some good progress now that the weather has warmed up a bit.

Current status of the engine:
-got my hardware back from PMB with fresh clean plating
-the P's and C's are back on after some deck height adjustments
-Cylinder air guides are modified/cut to match the later style as described in Waynes book. Cleaned, painted with high temp black, and installed.
-a new-used fan shroud, new strap and alternator have been fitted
-today I finished going through the carbs and fitting the new jets and vents
-a couple weeks ago I tore apart the front end to prepare for the new 911 struts/brakes/hubs. Also installed new bushings
-spent an evening doing an initial cleaning on the cam housings. they're clean enough that I can work with them now (removing plugs, cleaning oil tube, etc)

Some pics

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The bushings were a bit of a debacle. I ordered the 914Rubber bushing set that comes with the tools to install. I watched a few videos and read some DIYs. The fronts were straightforward and I got them on without too much hassle, when I got to the rears I hit a roadblock though.

It seems my '71 has a different suspension setup than every video and DIY I've seen. On those, the rear bushing cup is a separate part from the cross member. On mine, as you can see, it's integrated into the cross member and fully welded. Additionally, the torsion bar hole is smaller, meaning there's no way to use the "cone" tool that is supplied.

It was easy to install the rear bushing over the male portion of the control arm first, but when pressing into the cup it would swell out.

Alternatively, if you assembled it into the cup first it was also very easy, but then when pressing the control arm in it would mush the whole bushing down into the cup. On top of that, if you tried to use the cone it may press in, but there's no exit for the tool so the bushing couldn't go fully in.

We then tried going half/half and pressing together, but it would always slide up the control arm first and then swell out instead of go into the cup.

In the end, I ordered a set of polyurethane bushings. I fit them in the rear only by installing them into the cups first, then gradually removing a small amount of material from the ID until I had a good fit with the control arm. I assembled with the required lube and everything is nice and snug and smooth. I'm sure I'll be doing full 911 control arms and cross member at some point, so I'm not too concerned about the poly bushings.

Optimusglen
The build progresses. I have up to the cam towers finished currently, hoping to have the timing set by the end of the week and then button everything up.

It was a relief when I slid the cams into place and they turned freely. I had the case done by Ollies so I wasn't worried about that, but I didn't have the cylinders surfaced or anything, so there was a chance I'd have to pull it apart. I did have them inspected by a friend who has built several 911 motors for a living, but I'm not sure of the extent that he checked them, just that he gave them his seal of approval.

I rebuilt the original chain tensioners and plan to use those in conjunction with the safety collars.

I'm planning on driving the Overcrest Rally this September. The drive itself is in Utah, and I don't plan to trailer this out there. So it's going to have to be ready to spend several days on the road.

Not pictured, but I picked up a pair of Renegade Hybrids axels. My -4 axels were acceptable for tooting around town, but for a long trip I wanted the piece of mind.

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I also finished installing the front suspension, 911 struts, Brembo AM calipers, and 19mm master cylinder. Bled the brakes (just the front so far) and dropped it down of the jack stands. Next up for the chassis is to install the new rear pads and push some fresh fluid through. Then the Ground Control springs and adjustable spring sleeves.

I brought my Zeniths to another friend (Dave Cheney, who also has a 914(faux 6) that's beautiful) who has a little business rebuilding carbs. I had assembled them, and felt pretty ok about them, but thought it wouldn't hurt to have someone check them out who knows more about what they're doing, hah! He's ultrasonically cleaning them and I hope to have them back soon.
Optimusglen
No pictures this time, but chain housings are on and cam gear alignment is complete, next up is cam timing!

I might try to sneak that in tomorrow, but I also have to wrap up a transmission service for my Land Rover, so we'll see how I'm doing after that.
Optimusglen
Big step, the cams are timed and the tensioners I rebuilt are in.

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mepstein
Awesome
Cairo94507
Looking amazing. I like that you plan to drive it in September on a long trip. Driving these cars makes them better and better. beerchug.gif driving.gif
Optimusglen
Getting down to crunch time, I really need to be able to put a few thousand miles on this locally before the big drive.

The motor is really very very close to going in. A few small outstanding things and it's ready.

The biggest tasks left are mounting the oil tank and the engine mount.

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My friend runs DymePSI, a custom fluid line outfit. I'm hoping I can get the oil lines between the engine and tank expedited... Fortunately, I won't be running a front cooler. It's just a stockish 2.2T so everything I've read says I'm fine with the engine-mounted oil cooler.
Retroracer
Are you running the phenolic spacers under the manifolds? They make a big difference and are worthwhile sourcing. Some of the build guides don't mention them, but from experience, watching clouds of evaporating fuel inches behind your head when stuck in traffic on a hot day CAN be a little disconcerting.....! The spacers stop the heat transfer to the carbs - a huge difference.

Very clean build Glen!

- Tony
mb911
QUOTE(Retroracer @ Jul 21 2021, 03:32 PM) *

Are you running the phenolic spacers under the manifolds? They make a big difference and are worthwhile sourcing. Some of the build guides don't mention them, but from experience, watching clouds of evaporating fuel inches behind your head when stuck in traffic on a hot day CAN be a little disconcerting.....! The spacers stop the heat transfer to the carbs - a huge difference.

Very clean build Glen!

- Tony

agree.gif

Optimusglen
The '71 911T Zeniths had a factory version of that spacer and yes, I am running them. Or I should say I will be, I ordered them a week ago from the bird and they are hung up on some other item on the order so I ordered a second set from Sierra and they should be here tomorrow.
porschetub
QUOTE(Optimusglen @ Jul 22 2021, 04:13 PM) *

The '71 911T Zeniths had a factory version of that spacer and yes, I am running them. Or I should say I will be, I ordered them a week ago from the bird and they are hung up on some other item on the order so I ordered a second set from Sierra and they should be here tomorrow.

Yep make sure you fit them,even with them on my carbs (same as yours ) they are low in the fuels bowls which I put down to heat soak and evaporation anyway,I just run the my fuel pump longer before starting so no issue if the car has been sitting for a while.
Optimusglen
I started preparing the car for the new motor. I was fearing the hole saws, having read that the task is somewhat of a bear, but it went really smoothly and all the holes were cut within an hour or so.

Lots I can/will clean up in here, but the big stuff will have to wait for the next phase of the project, bodywork. And that won't be happening before the drive this September. So I will deburr and dress the sheetmetal edges, but I won't be stripping any of the rust that has been starting or respraying anything.

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Before I toot my own horn too much I should probably test fit the tank...


edit: I wanted to update this in case future readers find it in a search. When using the hole saws I found it easiest to drill the pilot hole with a stepped bit first, to make sure it's located right on center. Then I rested the pilot bit of the hole saw in that hole and before making contact between the hole saw and the sheetmetal I ran the drill up as fast as it went. Then just very light pressure so that the hole saw doesn't grab and rip out of your hands. Light and fast. Works like a charm and had all holes cut in 30 min without much trouble.
Cairo94507
Nicely done. Definitely test fit the tank, but it should slip right in. beerchug.gif
raynekat
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 22 2021, 02:35 PM) *

Nicely done. Definitely test fit the tank, but it should slip right in. beerchug.gif


Yes, can sometimes be a bear to install (six oil tank). It's tight in there.
Make sure you tighten up the oil line that comes out of the bottom of the tank before you install the tank.
Next to impossible to tighten it up when the tank is already in the chassis.
Retroracer
Also, FYI: I found this site really useful for prelim / static set up of carbs before first start after rebuild:

http://www.suggate.co.uk/zenith/new_site/a...es/article3.htm

..if you have seen it already. It was also good for understanding the balancing procedure once you're running. No affiliation,

- Tony
Optimusglen
When I finished with my carbs a friend of mine was actually starting up a side business of carb rebuilds, he had just finished running through another friend's PMO's so I sent the Zeniths to him.

He tore them down and ultrasonic cleaned everything, then replaced all the throttle bushings and reamed to fit the shafts. There were a couple of small parts that I hadn't re-plated that he did too. Then set them up to factory specs and sent me a form on setting them up in the car.

He is CheneyDave on Instagram, he's probably on here too because he has a 914 that he swapped a 6 into and did the GT flares etc.


Elsewhere on the build, McMaster came through with a clean solution for plugging the heater holes in the engine tin.

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Part# 9750K35 and it's $13 for a pack of 50 hahaha so, if anyone is local and wants a pair, let me know. I might list some in pairs but I'm not really a fan of a bunch of $2 or $3 transactions and trips to the post office.


Last night I started locating the engine mount. Was kind of alarmed at how much of a zig-zag the harness/snorkel has to do to get through the channel. Going to have to do something with that before I weld the mount in. Talked with Eric at PMB and he ghave some very good advice on how they do it.


OH, and I test fit the oil tank and all looks good there. I had all the openings taped up so it was a little hard to see the two threaded holes through the drilled holes, but the big stuff all lined up great.
Maltese Falcon
QUOTE(raynekat @ Jul 22 2021, 03:47 PM) *

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 22 2021, 02:35 PM) *

Nicely done. Definitely test fit the tank, but it should slip right in. beerchug.gif


Yes, can sometimes be a bear to install (six oil tank). It's tight in there.
Make sure you tighten up the oil line that comes out of the bottom of the tank before you install the tank.
Next to impossible to tighten it up when the tank is already in the chassis.


I had a small bit of oil sweating from that lower Impossible-to-tighten fitting.
I found this odd wrench over at Earl's Supply , back when they had actual aircraft surplus in their store...then modified it in the bandsaw to fit the metric nut. I can get a slight bit of torque on the fitting , with the rocker just loosened and hanging in place.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Optimusglen
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Next week the motor goes in I think!
Optimusglen
I've been waiting for parts so I can continue forward. I had to order a new crank pulley to match my fan pulley, and new longer belts. I could have picked up a non-standard belt a little shorter than the 710, but then it would be under-driving the alternator. The new crank pulley is due tomorrow, I got the "935-style" billet piece.

I cut out the -4 engine mounts. etch primes the bare metal and then rattle-canned over that.

I've also installed the rear coilover sleeves and new springs. Then installed the new rear brake pads. Left the adjustments loose because I don't have the new axels in and torqued yet (waiting for the engine to be in for that)

I've also started thinking about the wiring, historically it's been my biggest challenge for non-factory builds. heck, even with stock stuff I have been confused numerous times. With some help from Perry (a.k.a. @IronHillRestorations ) and a few other sources, I've managed to map it out I think.

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I had wired in short harnesses on the back of the alternator out to the outside of the air shroud. The schematic I was following for that had a lot more wires than I actually need, specifically the 4 wires on the left (shown black, but should be brown) and the single thinner red wire on the right. I'm considering pulling the carbs and air shroud off again and revising this... but maybe it'll be future proofing... if I wanted to change things later maybe I'd want them?

The only thing remaining is my tach. I still have the 4-cyl tach in there currently. I do have a tach adapter, but the wires on the unit don't match any of the samples I have from Perry or the other gentlemen who have sent their wiring schematics to me.

I also have an aftermarket tach that I was going to swap the guts into a dead 911 tach I have. Started collecting those parts years ago, so I'm not sure if I want to go that route again.

Or I could try to buy a 911 tach, but that's the most expensive option and one I'm not entirely fond of for that reason.
Optimusglen
Just finished re-installing the fan/housing. I removed the short harness that's not needed and added a beefy ground from the alternator to the case. I had one cable before, but it was a 12g wire. The new one is a proper battery cable ground.

Next I need to dig out an old harness I have to pull the 12pin plug from. Or maybe I'll buy a new one...
mb911
Well I do have a 911 tach if you need one for a reasonable decent price.
Optimusglen
Going to try to avoid throwing money at the problem for now.


Yesterday was a BIG DAY!

The new crank pulley came in, and a pair of belts from elsewhere, so I was able to wrap up the front of the engine.

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Fit great and tensioned well with 3 shims in and 3 out.

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At which point there wasn't much holding me back from getting the motor and trans set up to go in.

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At this point, I was regretting not spending some time cleaning the gearbox...

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The Renegade Hybrid axles in first, then I couldn't help myself and installed the MSDS headers.

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First I installed my muffler from Ben (914-6werkshop) but I mistakenly had the headers snugged down already. This required me to ratchet strap them together a bit to mate with the muffler flanges. Then I had trouble fitting the muffler straps, interfering with the exit pipes, so I pulled it off and slapped on this other muffler I had. It lined up well and works with Bens muffler bracket.

I emailed Ben and found out that I errored in tightening the headers first, and he also gave me some tips on making the muffler bracket work. I'll check that out at some point because his muffler is substantially lighter than this home-brew sport muffler. And it looks a bit meaner too.

For now though, this isn't a bad sight.

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Cairo94507
Giant step forward. Yeah, definitely swapping to Ben's muffler will lighten the load and look perfect too. beerchug.gif
Optimusglen
Work continues,

Patrick Motorsport shift rod is in. I had to space the mounts on the MadDog bulkhead mount up about .35 inch in order to clear the shift bar.

The axle bolts are torqued to 150 (spec is 250, but I'll need to wait until it's on the ground and I have a bigger torque wrench for that)

The rear pads are adjusted. Erics guide said to ensure axle nuts are torqued, hopefully 150 is enough for that.

Started removing the forward remnants of the old throttle and clutch cable, found that the clevis pin on the clutch cable was seized. In fact, the pin had worn through an old brass (bronze?) aftermarket bushing at the pedal cluster. What a cluster-f getting that out. So the whole cluster is out now waiting on The Bird to deliver some new parts.

I did install the rear portion of the Patrick Motorsports throttle cable. I chose this route over the factory-style linkage for ease of install/setup and I believe it was cheaper too. The forward end of course will need to wait for the pedal cluster to go back in.


I started in on the wiring, MSD is mostly wired in. Weatherpak connectors with pins crimped and soldered. I still need to test all the connections.

I mounted the MSD on the passenger side of the firewall inside the engine compartment. (my battery is already relocated to the rear trunk, fuel pump is in the front)


So, working towards the left I decided I should have probably fished around for the Oil Temperature wire before I installed the engine. A little research showed that on my '71 I wouldn't have the oil temp wire on the forward engine shelf as I was lead to believe. This brought me further down the rabbit hole of wiring and now I have revised my wiring diagram.

As many of you know, but some of you probably don't, the relay boards and their wiring are not identical for all 914's. For the 70/71 I am able to run the oil pressure and oil temp through the 12pin connector.

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wiring diagram

And because pictures are the lifeblood of any build thread, here are a few other small additions.

Copper plated exhaust nuts came in and installed.
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As you can see some of the studs reach all the way to the outside surface of the bolts, while others are inset a bit. Anyone with experience here? Do I need to pull those studs or back them out?


And I replaced the drain plug. The old one was fine but just looked out of place with the brand new sump cover, totally refreshed case, and new hardware elsewhere.

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mb911
Those studs will be just fine.. looks good.
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