No man, it’s what we’ve talked about in the other thread, disconnecting the vacuum retard but leaving it open to atmosphere and then plugging the port at the throttle body. That car will not cold start without vacuum retard. Period. Tried twice, same results.
Any 914 L-Jet EC-B without a vacuum retard line will require some very different parameters from what my car has. I’m certain of that.

everything is attached on mine.
vac retard from dist to vac retard port on TB.
same for advance.
always has been.

doesn't flood on starting.
goes a bit weak on cold start as you know (but thats 90% sure the AAV getting senile).
runs and idles just fine in winter conditions in aus, out in traffic etc.
never seems like its hot.
runs great out on highway at cruise at 80 mph (don't tell the cops).
gets outstanding fuel economy for its era, clocked it at 28mpg using USA measure.

but where it does cause me concern and used to 15 years back is in high summer here.
so much so i don't like to drive it in traffic where i will get caught up in a jam.
then you can feel the heat build up under the car.
i always used to put this down to the fact it was an AC engine out of a rear engine design slapped into the middle of the car so it trapped heat.
but now i am beginning to think because it is a emissions feature, that its running hotter at standstill idle than one without retard.
and maybe that is not so good in australia?
esp if you can't keep the car moving and expelling the hot air build up underneath.

connect it back up. keep it stock. it kind of proves the point that the EC-B with the retard ports in stock form needs that retard connected.

it doesn't get real hot in maryland so you are not going to have my problem with the hotter idle.
and i guess if i disconnected mine i would get into the same trouble as yours unless you could do something to adjust things.

we will have to wait from some members who don't have the retard hooked up.
they were around a few years back.
Pete000 had the set up for sure without the retard connected.

i'm only guessing when it comes to this mythical 49 state car.
no one has presented with one that links emission sticker, to tune sticker, to original set up. its just the throttle bodies are out there on cars. whether they are original or not can't be known for sure.

This post @wonkipop
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2962219
A cold start just won’t happen with the vac retard function disabled. Your assumption about the warm start is accurate based on my experience, but a cold start ain’t happening.

yeah

i can see what you are saying.

if there is such a thing as a 1.8 without that retard its got to have a different ECU or an ECU that is tweaked in some way. i agree.

nothing in the parts manual or factory workshop manual to say there is a different part involved.

pete000's could be hot rodded in some way.

i'll go and dig out the thread from 10 years ago when a whole bunch of guys got going on this. they really got things up in the air. no one could agree with each other.
the whole scenario was there. and there were two guys with cars that had no retard facility.

---------

the big thing is we can answer mr. b's proposition to starbear and i.
he said there is an EC-a and and EC-b.
and for 74 that the EC-b was the cali car and the EC-a was the 49 states.
(based on a sound technical document about the 75 cars).

but its weirder. its the other way around for 74.

---------

and we would be able to answer all those guys who were having a bit of an argument 10 years ago. they all presumed the cars were one way (and saying their way was the right way and the others were wrong, cars were modded, etc).

we know for sure.
EC-A is retard only. (and it is california conforming and CARB certified).
EC-B is retard and advance (when it has a california conforming sticker on it).

and we know narthing definitive about the EC-B without california conforming sticker.

which is a lot more than i knew 2 weeks ago.

@Van B

i just took a close look at the photos @nihil44 posted up.

he has got something happening there that is very probably non stock.
he has got a rebuilt throttle body that a member here refurbishes.
part of the process is boring out (remachining) the TB.
slightly increases diameter.

i'll bet this alters the ported vacuum position in relation to the throttle valve.
i'm looking at his photo and the advance port is hooked up to the retard side of the distributor (or it looks that way).
is that because the advance port is now a manifold vacuum port after the machining?
its ended up on the manifold side of the valve?

he has his advance line off distributor going into a T connector and another line and i can't tell what that does.

i think he knows what he was doing too.
he can best explain it.


must be a consequence of the refurb on the TB?
his TB has the port closed off that is in the original manifold (retard) vacuum port.

if that is all so with his TB without a "retard" port than the ECU will still run it all.
because he is getting retard at idle.

Yeah it’s pretty cool what you sorted out with this thread. As parts become more scarce and people start developing work arounds, knowing the original comfy will be invaluable!
Hell, even with a 123 setup, it’s really important to know what the car needs for advance and retard in order to get along with the ECU!

heres another brain bender for you @Van B.

from CARB executive order.

74 412s and Kombis have same ECU and AFM as 914s.

but 412s and Kombis don't have retard on distributor.

....... they are cold starting without retard but without flooding?



Click to view attachment


here is the thread from 2010 where they all get going on whats the right way to hook up a 1.8 - basically atl agree to disagree and don't get much further.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=113691

and here is the thread of rebuilding the throttle bodies.
need @whip618 to come on and tell us if he is doing anything to these throttle bodies with the retard port.

also @pete000 he is running a TB without the "normal" retard port to throw some light on his set up. does he have retard at idle off manifold vacuum

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=271012

ok - they are doing the cold start on the 412s and Kombis somehow with the different dizzy. you do the timing at idle with the hoses on for those.

you will have to explain to me how @Van B.
but must be how they can use the same AFM and ECU?

Click to view attachment

digging into all this sh#t. and it is sh#tty to dig into it. i came across something interesting i never knew about.
vw were the first manufacturer charged with an emission cheat in 1973.
sound familiar?
there was scant mention of exactly what it was.
but i found it in detail.
it was on the 73 type 3 fastbacks and squarebacks running D jet.
two temp sensitive switches were used to alter enrichment outside a certain ambient temp range. for cold starting VW claimed.
the EPA discovered the "cheat" when VW disclosed the temp switches were there for some 74 models they were seeking approval for. vw had to take the switch out of the system.

was this the 74 1.8? is that why it is late arriving in nov. 74?
there was no detail on which 74 model was affected so who knows.

vw were lucky, the EPA did not force a recall and instead levied a $120,000 USD fine.

soon after that the EPA hit chrysler and hit them hard with a recall.

I just spent the last 20min looking at threads on VW forums about 1.8 engines…. Holy shit, what a disaster. Guys, we’re a lucky bunch on this forum.

Here’s a little sample:
“I ment ignore TDC and 7.5 BTDC set to what advance value you want--max advanve, check type4rum for some sugestions. Mine seems to make the most power at 33.”

@wonkipop my answer would be that there is a difference in timing on the distributor. But, based on the 20min I will never get back, I don’t plan on ever looking into the VW world again lol!

you don't want to go into that world.

its hard enough finding primary material that is useful without..................

just


the worst thing for me is i am sitting down here in the a-hole of the world as ava gardner called it and there is no other L jet here in town. i know a guy with a 75 running carbs and a couple who own a 6. not much use except if you want to compare door handles.

this forum is real useful.

i worked out where the confusion came from between 2000 and 2010 on threads here and on pelican parts over vacuum hose set ups etc.

folks had cars that were already 30+ years old. throttle bodies had been replaced. some of the set ups being argued over were not in original configuration. some throttle bodies had come from other 1.8s in the VW family of cars.

this is the basic 74 914 EC-B throttle body.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

All 74 914s had manifold vacuum connected to distributor retard vacuum. all ran retard at idle for emissions. only EC-B ran vacuum advance off upstream port on TB.


here are examples of various VW throttle bodies for the 1.8 L-Jet engine.
would have been a lot of these floating around?
to make matters worse some seem to have the same part # stamped on as the 914 TB. i don't know how VW would have distinguished these parts from each other?

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

both EC-A examples posted here by members @nihil44 and @L-Jet914 have had their vac advance activated and an alternative source of manifold vacuum taken off the intake plenum. in other words converted to EC-B configuration.

got my head around the california emission kookery. CARB were making VW and porsche run the car retarded from ideal at all part load as well as throttle closed positions?

so much for the distributor as a fine tuning, reactive, load sensing adjustment device for engine efficiency?

california cars would have gone into slightly retarded timing of mech advance at cruise?
to do a version of trick as idle retard? forcing lower emission at the cost of fuel economy/efficiency of combustion.
@Van B will fill that in if i have it wrong.

anyone in cali with any sense would have found a way to reconnect advance?

---

in 75 they swapped it all around.
the EC-B throttle body went on to the californian cars.
the upstream port on the TB connected to the EGR and activated it at cruise and part throttle.
the EC-A throttle body went on to the 49 state cars.
these had only the manifold vacuum port connected to the retard vacuum on distributor (no EGR or cat and no vac advance.).
i found two published versions of both cars in very good original condition showing this.


------


you can find plenty of 1.8s for sale, the images that go with the dealer ads show that over the years owners have found some pretty novel ways to find manifold vacuum off hoses directly to the plenum to activate the vacuum retard if they had a TB without the port.
suspect there were lots of the vw TBs but correct 914 TB was a bit harder to find.


------

i will deposit the documents we have found in the originality section of the website as a resource for 1,8 owners.

as @Van B says, so folks know what the baseline factory set up was - then its easy to think your way into work-arounds if you have to.

jeff bowlsby asked if we could do a correct vacuum hose layout for the 1.8.
but we don't have to.
there is one that is on the pelican parts site that is 100% correct and was done early on.

what did not get worked out 10 years ago was that the disconnection of the advance hose on the distributor was due to CARB. Not a chronological difference, early and late as noted in discussions 10 years ago. both versions were manufactured at the same time. production of L-Jet very likely starts in November 1973.

As I was reading this I’m becoming more and more convinced that a programmable distributor is the way to go for an L-Jet.

Hi,

Finally I can put my informations:

1. Vin Date - month and year (no need to post vin numbers if you don't want to). thats the date on the driver door sticker:


2. Karmann plate #. or if you have already done the maths, the day and week of the year the car began production.


3. Image of engine bay emission sticker (lhs above the air cleaner - white with red letters). sticker should say whether it is an EC-A or an EC-B engine and whether it is california + EPA or only EPA.
-->Sadly gone on my car probably during the repaint )

4. image of engine tune up sticker.
this is the small white sticker that is on LHS engine tin just below fan shroud.
most of them are gone by now, but some engines still have them.
Quite damaged on mine:


5. image of the throttle body. image of the distributor.
we are looking at the vacuum hose set up between the distributor and the throttle body.
Pretty dirty, no time for an engine cleaning yet :-(






Cheers

Antoine

@TRS63

thanks Antoine

engine looks great mate. all original in there.
can make out from tune up sticker its both hoses hooked up car from the start.
same set up as EC-B stickered cars so 99% its one of those.
from late in production - handy to know. 6/74
shows vw were definitely making the two hose connected set up well after jan 01 74 and one versus two hose hookup isn't about a chronological production change/improvement.

Interesting one I found trawling old ads.

EC-A.
VIN date 06/74

resolution of engine photos don't allow to see hose hook up, or what tune up sticker shows.

bill of sale is sold new in cincinnati, ohio - makes it a CARB certified EC-A that is not sold new in california.

strange thing on engine seems to be for an aftermarket temp gauge made in the 70s.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Not only that, but the 1.8s were the very first production cars ever to use L-Jetronic fuel injection! In many ways, they were the predecessor of basically all modern EFI systems!!

--DD

member with 7/74 car got back to me.
has sold the car - can't tell us about emission sticker.

found some pics he had posted on another thread.
shows throttle body.

has EC-B set up.
looks unmeddled with inclusive of 30 years desert dust.



Click to view attachment

.....although to be strictly correct, it shares the honour (if you call 76 hp an honour ) with the VW 412 and the VW transporter. i knew about the 412, but before this exercise here, not the bus in 74.

All this sort of explains the various tinkering with setups; they were still experimenting. No rationalization for that yellow one from Ohio….

Here is another data point

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And the rest (wouldn't let me attach to previous post)

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

@jonferns

thats a sweet looking car you have there sir. and an EC-A.

i see something interesting.
am i looking at it correctly - does the retard port on the throttle body not have a hose connected to the retard side of the distributor?

do you know which state your car was delivered and sold new.

thanks for contributing.

@wonkipop

There is no retard port on the throttle body. I will have to go back out and check the layout of the hoses from the distributor.

Car was delivered and sold new in California

yes - it seems not rational @StarBear .

i suppose nothing stopping a cal. car being sold in the 49 states.
the other way round with a EC-B would have been problemtatic given CARB documentation?

by the way i worked out a tighter time period for the change over to engine bay charcoal cans. it happens sometime in the 5 days before your car was made.

this has been an interesting exercise so far.
i'm glad mr. b asked the question.

thanks mate.

i can see the retard line going off somewhere.
i'm guessing its been maybe plumbed with a T into the decel valve line?

its interesting because it maybe has the same plumbing set up as @L-Jet914 car.
his EC-A was sold new in california too.

@jonferns .

so your throttle body is one of these?

Click to view attachment

@TRS63 .

calling antoine.
forgot to ask, you don't happen to know where your car might have been sold new?

That car looks unbelievably original and clean. Kinda crazy really.

it is pretty clean and original isn't it.
it has had a repaint when you look close at photos.
but its pretty good.
wonder if a member grabbed it.

they are still out there.
which astonishes me!
i found this one in my shed a couple of years ago.
a stoopid old geezer had forgotten it was there.



Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

StarBear takes the cake but.
he has had his since new!
completely astonishing.
shows you how much people liked these cars.

the green one would have been an old geezer never going to part with it?
not while they were alive anyway!

@Van B.
if you want to look at all the photos of that green car -

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-2/

the sale was back in 2016.
someone has transferred all the info on Vin register here already.
but no members name to it.

Utterly fantastic example!

Something I found interesting in some of the posts, the tension spring that connects to the throttle is connected to the rear engine tin by the transmission on some of these cars. Whereas mine is connected to the middle of the intake plenum. Weird. Also interesting to see an EC-A with no vacuum retard port on the throttle body housing.

i feel pretty sure that is because the TB has been replaced.
my car is 45K+ miles (real mileage and i am ashamed of myself i let it sit for so long) - the throttle body is just starting to get sticky.
i have to kick it off before i start it after leaving it a week.
no problem once driving, but its the tell tale sign mine is finally catching the disease.
i think letting it sit it for the time it did might have formed a slight corrosion ridge too.

the cars suffered from this relatively quickly reading back over some threads here.
so a lot of throttle bodies would have been replaced somewhere between 50K and a 100K miles? i even read reports of this happening on relatively new cars back in the day.

i believe that throttle body without a retard port is from another VW and was a cure for the problem. just replace the TB. a member here now rebuilds them very nicely if you need it done. back in the day mechanics and dealers would not have had to give it a second thought i now realise. just go find a source of manifold vacuum off the plenum and hook that to the distributor if you had a replacement TB that was not quite right. its less of a mystery to me after this thread.

as to the spring. i think off the rear engine tin is the original way for a 914 TB. but maybe if the TB is from another VW you have to reverse the spring. given the engine is the other way around in a rear engine VW. and the cable direction coming through from car?

without seeing one of those TBs in the flesh its hard to know (not many L-Jets in my neck of the woods), but thats my hunch.

If the plate and body start to dovetail and stick closed, I would say sending it out to have it bored out and a larger plate fitted makes more sense at this point in the life cycle of these cars. Replacing with an almost right VW part was probably the go too solution 20yrs ago when these cars weren’t worth much.

yes, i'm going to pull it out at xmas time and take a close look.
might be a job for mr. whip while we are all still around?

i will give him instructions not to paint it or refinish it externally but.

its nice to be around a bunch of folks finally a bit excited about the "lowly" 1.8.
i gave up 30 years ago and kept to myself here because everyone sneered at it.
didn't have a 6. and was the "worst" of the 4s.
but maybe its time has come for what it is.

Snobbery in a 914 forum proves that Porsche owners are all subject to the same temptation. I’ve only ever owned the most disparaged Porsche's and they’ve all been fantastic. I only wish my 944 has not been murdered by a Buick all those years ago. I was up to 217,000mi on the original engine in that car when it got hit.

ok @L-Jet914 i took a look at your spring set up in your photos this morning.

could not find anyone else in photos in thread who had the spring reversed and connected to the plenum like yours.
your throttle body is the same as all of ours in terms of its top set up.
i think you need to take a look at it. the spring is there in case your throttle jambs or its main wound spring screws up and your throttle sticks wide open. its the failsafe that is meant to pull the throttle closed. the way its hooked up i think its going to do nothing?

what might have happened is someone along the way, familiar with VW rear engined set ups has, (out of habit?), hooked it up the rear engined way. which works when the throttle cable is coming through from the opposite direction. they have not thought it through properly?

i've attached an illustration from the factory manual.
i've attached a photo of a 412 engine bay where you can see how attaching the spring to the plenum would make sense for the rear engined car - but not yours?

i'm not there to see it in the flesh, but i blew up the photos and i see nothing different about your throttle body that shows its any different to ours in the top assembly, wound spring catches etc.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

by "here" - meant the real "here" - australia.
thirty years ago it was all that NARP stuff.
so i kept to myself.


very good motors in 944s.

always fancied a 924S myself. rare car in aus that never officially came here.
few private imports from UK float around and seem to change hands for good $.
never driven a 44 but have driven a 24 at high speed cruise in western australia 30 years ago. fantastic at high speed (talking sustained 90 - 105mph for long stretches on the way up to geraldton from perth. lot more planted than a 14 at those speeds. 14 needs the nose spoiler for that stuff. i don't do that any more of course, its getting dicey here if you get pinged at that velocity by the rozzers.

when i say i keep to myself.
i hang out with another guy who keeps to himself in his beater speedster.
a scary ride in the passenger seat. i look down a lot - .......

Click to view attachment

he's got a few other beaters lying around in the workshop.
you have to get strapped in and have a fire suit and a race track for this one.
i'd need a few drinks to get in the drinkers seat with him driving.
so far i have been spared as its refused to run properly the couple of times its been released from prison when i've been around.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

- back to the wheezy but fun smog engines.

another one dug out of back pages of internet and Vin data on this site.
formerly of AA collection.
2/74. Vin 4742914068.
(one vin # before another car with K# 0659532 = build inception date 8th Feb 74).

has two hose tune up sticker.
images show vacuum advance line connected to TB.
matches other EC-B cars here. likely EC-B
emission sticker not visible in documentation available.
noted to be a very original 10,000 m car.
info on state where sold new not available.
but car was in Atlanta for a long time.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

heres one for you @Van B. your car's buddy. built 67 before yours on a friday,
yours was the following monday. hope they didn't have a hangover.

a link for you. don't know how old ad is. someone got a bargain?

https://www.grautogallery.com/vehicles/3202/1974-porsche-914


12/73 VIN 4742910723
EC-B from engine tune sticker and hose layout.
(no legible emission sticker image unfortunately - but the tune up sticker is legible).
K # 4959543. Friday 7th Dec 1973. (pearl harbour day car).
Sold new in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Someone definitely got a deal. I’m surprised there are so many 914s out there owned by people who aren’t on this forum. I mean less than 120k were made in total and I’m sure half are dead and gone by now.

i'd say 2/3 are dead or on blocks or growing grass underneath them.

here is one for @Arno914

the only pic i could find of an AN engine.
the silver 1.8 in the porsche museum.
it was a tiny image on some facebook preview page i scooted across looking for elusive EC-As.

Click to view attachment

Thank you, wonkipop!

this one is good.

tourist delivery - delivered Osnabrueck.
for a person who lived in hawaii.
but its to californian spec. (and its got a code attached whatever that means?)

VIn 4742916808

K# 1529514 = tuesday 9 april 1974 makes it a 4/74
(its delivered for pick up on 16 april, 7 days after its inception number stamp).

had emission stickers and tune up stickers in photos but resolution was not good enough to blow up and determine.
however it had 607 on the tin. from mr. b's website we know 607 is also on a EC-A california delivered car tin. L-Jet914 has the other EC-A variant 606 on the tin.

the EC-Bs have 604 and 605 on the tin.

fair chance its a EC-A.

checking the engine photos, it does not have advance hose from distributor to TB hooked up. in fact - no hose. i'd say this one has an original throttle body. but photos do not reveal the T/B. i'd hazard a guess this is an intact EC-A.

i wonder if mr. b has copies of this documentation and saw it at the time it was for sale.


Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment


because it got delivered new to a US citizen in germany, it got a wolfsburg radio and not a dealer installed sapphire. nice.

Click to view attachment


EDIT

Click to view attachment

I've read that on BaT and here a few times now about the 5 for a zero in German thing, but never see anyone speak up and confirm or dispute it, but I'm pretty sure that is not correct, however, I'm not German, don't speak, understand or write in German. What about all of the other zeros in the VIN, Chassis, Engine, Transaxle, etc, etc numbers? Why just the 5th digit of the Karmann factory at Osnabrück (correct spelling in German), Germany? I have a theory about it but hope someone with the answer will reply before I embarrass myself by suggesting something more stupid than usual.

my only thought on this @MCShack is that 5 and 6 were allocated to 914 production.
ie 5 distinguished it as 914 model, and 6 if 914 production went over 100 per day.

karmann were making beetle convertibles and karmann ghias at the same time in the factory. i'm going to guess their karmann plates use 1, 2 ,3 and 4 in the same way.
but i don't know. have not seen the karmann plates on those cars.
no official beetle convertibles were sold new in aus and the ghias are rare on the ground here.

i'm guessing this because we collected a good selection of the engine paint stamps on the 74 1.8s and its clear that VW assigned the first letter of those stamps to particular models the engines were destined for. for instance up to end of 74 the engine stamp number starts with 6 for 914s. for 412s that got the same engine (more or less) it starts with 5. for buses with type 4 motor it starts with 4. so i think in a similar way karmann were using the 5 in their plate number to mean both 914 and 914 production up to 100 cars a day?

if anyone has a ghia or a beetle convertible they could take a look at that karmann plate on their cars and confirm whether this speculation is off the mark.

bit more info for you @MCShack .

number on karmann door plate (body #) is a VW convention introduced in 1970 ----- for all vw models produced at all german factories.

karmann fitted in with that VW convention.
don't know what karmann had before 1970.

k produced 3 different vw models off their relatively smaller production line at the plant,
(if compared to wolfsburg or hamburg).

still doesn't make it entirely clear about the 5 and the 6 in the 914 body number stamp.

to further confuse i think they switch it to a 0 or 1 instead of 5 or 6 in 75? (don't really know, others would).

of interest they do a number shift with the engines in 914s in 75.
they go from a 6 as the first number on the engine code paint stamp to a 9.

eg. 49 state 1974 1.8 is either a 604 or 605 engine stamp.
49 state 1975 1.8 is either a 918 or 920 engine stamp.


Click to view attachment


personally i think the last three numbers is more strictly an order number.
which happens to coincide with production number on the day, but its actually a number generated alongside an order and a build spec. the whole way down the production line would have been a piece of paper work with that number assigned to build up information. the piece (or pieces) of paper were collected at the end of the build and filed probably (But not thrown away). in the USA and in Australia you can sometimes find that build sheet paper work stuffed in the ford/gm/chrysler car somewhere. but not in a VW.

i also think the cabs and the ghias had that small plate in illustration above fitted to them, while 914s got the fancy plate in the door jamb.
if you got hold of some plates from ghias and cabs and looked at the third number from the end it would definitely shed some light.

Thank you for your thoughtful and timely responses. I know that Karmann was making a few different cars at the same time, presumably with a different numbering code but maybe not as different as thought. I will look into that more when I have time. The 914 Chassis numbering system changed over from the 95xx format to the 90xx format in Sept-Oct of 1974 on '75 MY cars which they started making in July of 1974, so the early '75 models have the 9500 chassis numbers and those made around the 36th or 37th week of 1974 starting getting the 9000 chassis numbers through the end of production in Dec. 1975 when the last '76 MY cars rolled off the line at the end of the following year.

One thing that I discovered was in the 36th or 37th week of 1974 not only did they switch over from the 9500 chassis numbers to the 9000 chassis numbers, but some have a 1, 2, or even a 3 in the 5th position (or 3rd # from the end) of the chassis number (ie, 9100, 9200, and 9300). The "1" in that position was always presumed to be a rollover from 0 to 1 when production exceeded 99 cars in one day, except that examples I have found of the last 3 digits are like 147 and 163 which are nearly double normal high production numbers, and I have not found any in the 110s, 120s or 130s but have a rather small sample to work with which now includes all '75 BaT cars and all '75s from 914World's database. That said, the examples I do have with a "2" or a "3" in that 5th digit position are really waay out of range with no examples of over 100 cars being made on any of the same days where those odd examples exist.

I agree with your comment about the last three numbers being more than just a chronological order of cars made on a particular day of the week and that it has something to do with a build specification. I've tried to find things in common with the cars that do not fall in the "normal" numbering order or system, but have come up with very little other than an unusually high number of the limited examples I have are cars with either tan, brown or white leatherette interiors, but some are the much more common standard black interiors. The exterior colors range almost the full gamut from Yellows to Reds to Greens, so no help there. It is difficult to gather much more data in build specs w/o window stickers or similar docs to back this up.

To your point about other cars produced by Karmann, the BMW E9 series (ie, BMW 3.0 CS) were made from 1969-1975, the exact same years as the 914, as was the Triumph TR6 series 1969-1976 in addition to the VW and Ghia cars made before, during, and after the 914 production years. Not being familiar with those cars I have not begun to look at their Chassis or VIN numbering systems to see if they have similar formats and if they were even made in Karmann's Osnabrück, Germany plant where all of the 914s were made.

Sorry for butting in and derailing this thread, but hopefully I have helped bring it back to life along with another thread on a similar subject of Chassis numbers for '75 MY cars started several years ago. I have found this thread helpful and interesting, but I will start a new thread more on point to my particular question regarding the Chassis numbers that fall completely out of the normal range of most all known numbers. Please feel free to contact me with any information you may have to help shed more light on this or related subjects.

Thank you again for your time and responses, have a great day. Cheers, MC