The tune should be easier that you might think- I have the n/a maps of the SDS about 95% of where I want them. Adding the turbo mean adjusting just 2 maps- adding some lines to the fuel table for operating conditions when there is + manifold pressure, and adding some lines to the timing table to pull some timing when boost is present.

I really don't expect it to be THAT simple, but who knows, could be...

Is it running yet?

IT LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got the turbo and lines done last weekend, got the tail pipe made, modified, and mounted. Hit the key. Nothing. It would crank but not even sputter. Had a couple of gun-shoot back fires though. Battery seemed kinda low.

This week. Charged battery, tried to start. Same deal, lots of cranking, not even a sputter, letting off the key results in a huge **KA-BOOM**.

Today. Put a small electric fan/heater under the back trunk, let it run for 2-3 hrs to warm up the belly of the beast. Called SDS for some ideas on what to check. They as usual answered the phone promptly and were very helpful. In english. During normal hours when I was needing them. Nice. So we went thru some ideas of how to check the coil pac, thinking maybe that was it. I go back to the garage, look at the intercooler and piping to be removed to get to the coil.

OK, maybe I'll give it one more try before doing all that work. 2-3 seconds of crank, and it lights right off, no drama, no fuss. It was a little louder than I expected, but remember its in a large garage that will echo and amplify a bit. Shut it off, take a deep breath, and try again. Pops right off. Bad gas? Fowled plugs? To darn cold? Don't know, but I plan to haul in some fresh gas to add to whats in the tank, and will be checking the plugs also.

Whats left? Per usual, plenty. Get it to the dyno. Build a shroud and mount a puller fan below the intercooler. Take it all appart and get the I/C piped powder coated. High temp coat the exhaust. Add an O2 bung to the exhaust before getting to the dyno. And whatever else comes to mind.

Now the pics:

A couple more pics:

Just need things to warm up and melt off for a proper test drive!

I'll add more after the dyno day, whenever that comes to pass. Hopefully winter will be over and done with sometime before july up here.

NICE ZORK!!!!!!!

Added a couple more pics I took this weekend. Just had to get into the garage and start it again, just to listen to it... One of the design goals was to keep it as stealthy as possible. Here are a couple shots showing how little you really can see from the back.

Couple more pics- I believe the clutch and speedo cables hang lower than any of the turbo related stuff. If you look closely at the wheel on the carpet cleaner being stored on the back wall, you can kind of see a little puff of smoke from the cold temps in the garage and the hot exhaust. IT LIVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the road with 914T.... I have been driving it for a couple weeks when the days are warm enough not to freeze at night in the car- with no heat. Initial results were promising but under-whelming. Boost gauge was showing 4 psi or so, and only at WOT in the upper rpms. BS'ing with some turbo guys, we thought it might be: a boost leak in the plumbing, or maybe the waste gate was opening a little early and the gauge was reading a little light, and everything was working as it should, I just needed some stones to crank up the boost a little.

I ordered and installed today one of these: www.boostvalve.com. I also moved the boost line to read pressure after the throttle plates, rather than at the turbo compressor outlet. This would serve to make the turbo spin a little harder to make the amount of boost requested, as if there were any leaks or pressure drops thru the intercooler, the turbo would have to boost beyond these things to make the desired pressure after the throttle plates.

BOOST!!!!! A solid 8psi. I'm still working on the tune. My plan to take the n/a tune and just tweek the high end- out the window. Tried that, but it just didn't work. I think hte turbo, even if its not making boost, is moving air enough to mess up the tune I thought I had nailed w/out the turbo. So I have started from scratch. I have wideband AFR's of around 14-15 at WOT, not as rich as I would want, but good enough to tip into the boost a bit and enjoy 3 yrs of planning and work.

The weather up here is supposed to suck for the next 4-5 days, so probably will not have any more fun rides. I'll try to get some pics of the last of the install tomorrow and add them to the thread. When we can get back on the road, I'll do a little video, and see if I can figure out how to post or host it or whatever.

Once I get the AFR's under control, its off to the dyno, and I'll be sure to post the before and after charts also. It's pretty weird to think that the rest of the work is to drive the darn thing, push buttons, and not to wait for some odd part then freeze in the shop to install it.

David, you need to richen that thing up to around 12.5 while your boosting.

Thats about where I was n/a, pre-turbo, and that is what I'm shooting for now. AFR's varry between 12 and 14/15, so its not running lean across the whole rpm or boost range, just in a couple spots. I've got plenty of timing pulled to keep it all save while I get the AFR's in line, and look at how long this has all taken... I'm being cautious in getting into the boost during the testing/tuneing phase. Just need more warm weather and another tank of gas.

Any updates on how its running and maybe a dyno run yet?

I am curieus as now I know you can turbo an otherwise stock 914 2.0 to more than double its original power at 14,5 psi. Cool inlet temps is mandatory though.

Much has gone on since the last update- intercooler and sucker fan, smaller turbo from a Mitzu 3000 GT, and now chasing boost leaks.

Short story- with the subi turbo, as seen in the pics so far, the boost started around 3k, got to 5psi somewhere between 3500 and 4k, topped out at 7 psi or so from there to redline. From 4k up, it was alot of fun. I thought the late boosting was due to the subie turbo being to big- yup, it came from a 2.0 motor, and thats what I had, but the subie is a motor that will spin to 7k and has 2x as many valves. So I re-did it all with a much smaller, 9B turbo from the 3000 GT. Performance was about the same. Huh? The smaller turbo should be boosting like crazy. Made an adapter to connect my compressor to the turbo inlet and pressurize the system. Found several boost leaks, and am chasing down a few more. I guess thats part of the fun of building you own system, rather than use a plug and play system with the bugs worked out of it.

So far as intake temps, with the subie and the 3000 GT turbo, with the cooling fan ON for the intercooler, I was seeing only a 15 degree rise from ambiant temps, and this with the turbos both boosting like crazy to show 7psi on the gauge with all the boost leaks.

In retrospect, doing this thru the factory plenum and throttle body would have been loads easier- no need to re-engineer the linkage and cable, much less intercooler piping, so less leaks, but hey, I had the ITB's on the car, and using them made room for the center mount intercooler, so, I guess like Edison and his quest for the electric light bulb, I need to just keep on thinking things thru and trying things out till its all good.

Work has been insane this summer. 50-60 hrs every week since october 07, not alot of time to put into the car. I have tomorrow off, and hope to track down the last of the boost leaks and add a bunch more pics and details to the thread.

Thanks for the update!
I used a suby turbo too (IHI VF34 from a WRX) and that started about as late (as of 3000 rpm) too, but I have 7psi at 3500 and 14.5 psi at 4000 and above (ecu controls boost). Must confess its in a bug, but engine block is totally stock 914 2.0 apart from the Scat single T1 valve springs and Ti retainers.
It put out 222 hp and 225 ft.lbs of torque on the dyno...so its IS possible!
Just trying to give you some motivation to carry on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBMd6qFEek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_zCQhXJ-YI

Hope these links work. The first one should be a walk around of the car and project, the 2nd one is a little road trip. I'll see if I can get some more detail pics up to the thread later this week. If the links are bad, just surf utube for "914 turbo" and the 2 vids should come up for you. My user name there since I couldn't combine letters and #'s and use ottox914 is "minefourteen".

The tune is still a little rough, and as of yet I have not made it to the dyno, so I don't have any real #'s yet on what it puts out for HP and TQ. I could be a month or more before I can find/make the time for the 3 hr each way trip to a dyno, but I try to get out every night for a little bit to enjoy the car and work the SDS a little.

To drive the car is, ah, fun... The boost still starts later than I'd hoped for, don't know if any of the dyno guys will have a clue how to move that up a little, but because of that, it drives around town like any other NA 914, but mat the gas and it is just a smooth pull all the way to redline, not alot of noise and a huge push in the back just before you have to shift, like the little honda guys with turbos that are way to big... The tune right now is around 12-11 afr from 0 to 7psi or so, and 11-10 from there to max boost, which is around 10 psi. I've got alot of timing pulled to be sure not to melt anything, so to fine tune up the afr's across the boost range and put back some timing may sharpen up the throttle response as well. Not that the car is a dog right now, but always looking to make it better...

Nice setup David. The engine sounds really solid when it revs. Looks like you've got plenty of fuel as depicted by your afr's. I'm thinking your retarded timing is contributing to the lag. I would also think that the header setup (long tubes) would as well.

Nice work!

Long time w/no updates- busy summer- sorry guys.

Intercooler. There are pics of the IC installed, but here are a few of the fan. I found a fan that has a microscopic draw, I think it was like 2-3 amps, and moved 1000 cfm of air. My friend Steve the HVAC guy helped me make a plenum for under the IC to make things more efficient. The most temp rise I have seen during the heat of the day with around 98 degree air temps was a 30 degree rise in the intake temp. Now if you drive the car for a couple hrs, it will heat soak and rise a little more, but for the intended purpose, auto cross, I can expect to see 15-30 degree temp rise, thats not to bad considering the poor air flow of this location.

Turbo- I noted that I had changed from the WRX 13G to a 3000GT 9B turbo. I guess 35 yr old 2 valve pushrod technology really doesn't flow as well as the 4 valve DOHC stuff we have in the newer cars. What I really needed to do was know exactally the flow rate of the heads of the 914 so I could compensate the formulas to determine the correct turbo sizing. Here are some pics of the difference in size of the WRX and 3000GT front turbo:

Note the size difference of the turbo exhaust inlets and the compressor inlet:

Turbo install: the 9B installed the same way as the WRX turbo, just needed to re-do the header collector adaptor, (which will be re-done this winter to smooth the flow in) and do a new tail pipe:

Results? I now see 8 psi at WOT in 1st gear, boost building from 2500 or so in 2nd, and 10-11 from 3500 or so in 2nd gear to redline. AFR's are tuned with the SDS and wideband to be between 11-12 at WOT. The last half of the auto cross season, even on 4 yr old 710's has been a blast. In 2 events I had the 3rd fastest raw time, and was in the top 20 in the last 3. The 3rd place raw times were in grids of approx 120 cars, the top 20's were in 150+ car grids, with 8-10 national trophy winners and a couple of those wearing jackets as well.

Next? Still haven't made it to a dyno to see what it really makes, and what it can make. As our last event of the sesaon was last weekend, its now time to rest up a alittle, and get busy in the garage. Borrowed the equipment to do a compression and leak down test, need to put that to good use in the next couple weeks. Planning a new header adaptor to smooth the flow into the turbo, and water injection to keep head temps down, (the SDS can control this) and maybe add some more boost. The motor is still 100% stock. I think I'll pull the trans and do the flipped 5th gear to get a lower 3rd for the slightly longer tracks we set, and while the clutch is holding fine, might as well replace it while its all appart.

Wish list: better flowing heads and a cam with more exhaust duration from the Type IV store to push more air thru that turbo and spin it up sooner.

Lastly, a pic of the car at our last auto cross, which I was the course designer and EM. It was a theme auto cross, the theme being: Austin Powers, baby!

Ya BABY! You shagged that thing rotten! Very cool project.

Looking good David, next year lets turbo together.

If you want nice transitions go to spdexhaust.com They are really good and not too expensive, at least for most parts.

They are who I used last year making this turbo setup.

Added a video of our last event. Working an a short compolation of several runs with a little music, hope to have time to finish it and get it loaded in a week or 2.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG7iIFa5AVU

David: Your project looks great. What fuel pump and pressure regulator are you using? And can the pump keep up with the flow required at top end? I'm curious about if you see any lean-out because of insufficent fuel flow.

Go to my sig and click on the link to the SDS install thread. There are pictures and details on the pump and FPR there also. The pump is the often used walbro 255, and it has NO problems keeping up with the needs of the car. The FPR is an aeromotive unit that has a working pressure range of 20-60 psi, from summit racing. It is currently set at 40 psi fuel line pressure. The injectors are a matched set of 4 ford racing red tops, 30lb rated. At WOT and full boost my injector duty cycle is around 70%.

Looking good David!

About the only thing that I'd say may become an issue is the little strap on the tailpipe. Every time I've seen that done it ends up failing, as it will stress the entire exhaust system right back to the heads. A better mounting would be to modify the stock hanger (or a new stout unit) so that it provides proper support for the weight of the turbo and tailpipe.

Nice muffler. =o) you got a video or a sound clip of your car running? I bet it's got a nice sound to it.




EDIT: just saw the link. I was so busy drooling over the pictures that I completely missed it. lol Looks good!

Post video Edit: And it sounds sweet!

Hey Mark, I was going back and forth about that for awhile. If I made it a solid mount to the trans, if there was any extra-ordinary expansion from the additional heat of the turbo, would I have cracking and tension in the system? If I had a flexable mount at the pipe, would there be enough support for the turbo? Would it move and wiggle and crack something? I flipped a mental coin and went with a tab off the tail pipe to a firm rubber coupling to the car. The system is pretty rigid, there is hardly any motion to it at all side to side. I'm hoping there is not to much stress on the heads/header connection. No problems so far, but still not sure which was the right choice. I totally see your point, and may re-think a brace or support from the turbo to the trans when I re-do the header collector to turbo adaptor this winter.

I've done/seen many systems T1 and T4, every time a strap has been done in this fashion it has resulted in a failure of some type.

The sidewinder header I built for a T4 356 kit was too heavy and started to loosen the bolts at the collector, the owner had these straps added at a local shop (without my knowledge), ended up pulling out most of the exhaust studs.
A solid mount was made and mounted direct to the engine, so far no issues

I've used 2 A1 (brand) T4 to bug conversion headers, while no straps were used they (IMHO) are too heavy for just the exhaust studs. Damage was again done to 1 of the heads within 6 weeks, solid mount to engine was made (for both engines) and and both have been running without issue for 3 years.

T1 engines with these straps did not break at the exhaust studs but would fail somewhere at the tubing or muffler.

BTW When I say "solid mount" to the engine the system is still isolated from the chassis via the motor/trans mounts as in the 914 stock exhaust system.
Also I'd say there is not a whole lot of expansion stress from the stock type mounting because even a stock system would have a fair bit of expansion.

Makes alot of sense considering most other engine turbo setups use turbo braces that fasten to the engine block, and some of the exhaust flex is made through a flex pipe somewhere on the down pipe connecting the turbo to the exhaust. granted the turbo manifold/header is alot shorter in those cases, yet you would think that the turbo support to the engine would be even more crucial considering the length of the turbo manifold/header used in T4 applications. I see it as...if the engine moves, the turbo should move the exact same way as if it were bolted directly to the block..in this case...case!

I'd also have a concern about system "growth" when fully hot and rigid mounts at the turbo? I have a similar dilemma with turbo out beside the trans and a good ways from the engine exhaust ports. No flex pipes, full rigid system. I'm sure it will put too much strain on the headpipes to support the whole thing, especially with the heavy turbo cantilevered way out back. Needs some kind of bracing, and to effectively support the turbo seems like it need to be trianglated off the trans (tail cone and side plate studs). But then this tries to prevent any growth movement - definitely a catch-22 situation! Maybe a heat dissapating aluminum "transition" mount off the turbo flange, through rubber standoff type mounts, to a triangulated tube mount off the trans? Seems kin'a rube goldberg, but at the same time would seem to solve the issues. Still thinking about this one......

Jeff

love the vid! car goes like stink! I love it....sounds GREAT! Not to mention the attn to detail...looks very nice.

josh

Hard to argue with the voice of experience. Guess I'll add more/better turbo bracing to the winter to do list of updates/upgrades.

New video added of our last auto cross of the season. I had inititally added some backing music, by a certain guitar player named Jimi, a certain song with the word "fire" in the title, thinking he's been OD'd, dead and gone for so long, who'd care, its not like I'm selling copies or charging to see it- well you tube did, and would not post it with the music, so I had to delete it. If you were to figure out the song and start it at the same time as the video, you'd get the full effect.

To many things on the "honey do" list over this past warm weekend, did not get the compression or leak down done on the 914. Today should be one of the last mid 60's days in WI, I better get to it...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzrvC2Wfzso

Project 914 turbo gets some press!

http://www.sdsefi.com/project.html

Haven't been keeping this thread updated much lately, sorry. Perhaps over thanksgiving I'll be able to put a little time into updates and get everyone current.

Nice pictures of your 914 David. Clean install. Oh yeah, YOU CAN'T TURBO A 914!

Very cool stuff.. So, when do you hit the dyno

David:

About your intercooler. I took a look around on the net, and a lot of Suby owners change out their stock units for the aftermarket TMIC's to get better efficiency and HP. But the aftermarket units are much thicker. I'm wondering about the fit and whether the thick units would have enough room to get proper flow through out of the bottom.

Is your IC a stock model or one of the thicker upgrades? If its stock, do you think that a thicker aftermarket unit would fit and function properly in the same location?

Updates: Dyno is a no-go. Winter just came up to fast. Its highs in the low teens around here lately, and a 2 1/2 hr drive each way in a car with no heat to spend $75 bucks for 3 pulls then turn around and drive back for some odd reason did not appeal to me at all. Plus I have better things to spend my $75 on these days... The butt dyno says around 150 hp at the wheels, but I have no real idea, no other teeners in the area with other HP to compare the ride to. Our auto cross club president has a 1.8 miata with 6psi of supercharged boost, making around 160 whp. His feels stronger down low, no suprize with his M62 blower, but once I get to 3500 or so, mine really takes off right up to redline.

WRX intercooler. Its a stock factory WRX unit, not from an STI, not a thicker aftermarket unit. I think the thicker ones would probably work, but my support braces were set up for the factory sized unit, and I got one cheep enough from a club member, so thats what I went with. I think the sucker fan, and more importantly, the sealed plenum below the IC make the real difference. I don't know if a bigger, thicker unit would have helped that much. As for clearance, check the following pics.

Updates: I checked the thread to see what I had added and what not- and we are up to date on the turbo, with the swap to the 9B. I had some issues with oil blow by, ? if this was from the rings/valves/guides, or some of all of the above. My oil separator and catch can were home made from what I could find in the shop- a bike bottle and some 3M type scrubbing pads stuffed in it to slow down the air if there was a pressure difference from inside the bottle to outside. Seemed to work fine, but after a day at a longer track at a larger event site, I had lots of blow by out of the bottle and out of one head at the valve cover. So after a weekend of research, I ordered the CFR oil separator. Not cheep, but well worth what I paid. It works perfectly. I had Chris add some fuel cell foam to the interior of the can to further aid in oil separation. Here's a few pics: The first 2 are the goodies prior to install, the next 4 are the install. Note the 3rd install photo, shows a line from the oil fill to the CFR can. If I was using a thicker intercooler, I don't know if I'd have enough space for a decent curve in the line with out a kink, as a thicker IC would force a tighter bend in the hose.

David, WHat did you use to attach the breather tank to the firewall? Does is go all the way through the firewall? I'm considering riv nuts...

I pulled the back panel out of the interior and drilled right thru- held the tank up where it would go, (pulled the filter off the top for better axcess to the mounting holes), marked, drilled pilot holes, drilled full size holes, dug around the workbench for some bolts, finding 2 that were maybe a bit long, but would work, and presto! One done project.

The instructions for the kit have a drain line from the bottom of the tank back to the breather tower on the block. With the intercooler in place I didn't have that option, the oil would have had to flow uphill from the tank to the block. I went to the local hardware store and got a 1/8" valve that fit the threads perfectly in the bottom of the tank, and now I just check the valve, drain out what little is in there, and do this as part of my pre-race prep on the car when checking the engine oil level prior to an event.

It was hard for me to spend the $$$ on the part- its not cheep, but to get one in your hands, the quality is superb, and it does exactly what it needs to, and does it much better than my home-made bike bottle/green pad shade tree solution. Some things are worth spending money on if they're the right solution to the problem, and this was the right solution.

Looks cool too.

The engine lid hinge appears to be very close to the breather can filter. Does it interfere when closing the lid?

Also, does much oil vapor pass exit the can through the filter? I am considering ordering one of Chris's breathers and am curious about that.

Thanks. And thanks for all of the build photos and discriptions.

Hinge is not a problem, looks closer in the pics than in the real world. Lid opens and closes no problem, but it is close. I suppose I could have moved the tank 1/2 an inch this way or that, but with the space remaining with the intercooler and other turbo goodies back there, this was the only space left, so being interested in how well it all looks as well as how it works, I centered the can in the space that remained as best as I could.

Vapor? hardly any, as in none. The instructions for the filter have you squirt some purple pre-oil stuff on it. The instructions have you saturate the filter with the pre-oil oil. The first time I used it there was a little run off of this onto the top of the can, easily wiped up. No mist or fog coming from the vent during normal, or not so normal (turbo charged auto cross runs) use. Much better than my old system of a bike water bottle with holes drilled in the top, and 3M scouring pad stuffed inside. That system worked OK for awhile, but on a longer track with extended boost, I had noticable blow by.

Dave, try this ,put a pressure gauge on the crankcase. I am willing to bet you
have over 10 lbs of pressure when you but your foot in it. You do not have a large
enought hoses to relieve the crankcase pressure. You may have to add extra relief port on each valve cover and run it to a larger overflow catch can.

Most drag cars have the same problem they solve the problem by using a vacuum pump to relieve the crankcase pressure

904sov is correct, the vent hose that comes out of the crank case cover on my motor is 1" in diameter and the tank is 1 liter in volume.

Also both valve covers have return lines.

As noted, since the new breather package from CFR I have had no blow by issues, but I'd be interested to see your set up- got any pics to share?