how many miles and for how long time wise have you driven the car, also how much boost are you running for street use?

these all have an effect on weither you will se it come back, base my experience your tank looks good but INHO your crankcase breather hose is too small.

Since adding the new breather/catch can, have driven only 400 miles or so. No problems so far. Don't know if its just good luck, or haven't found right (or wrong) combination of twisting auto cross track and boost to really stress the new parts, or what.

BREAKING NEWS!!! NEXT EVOLUTION OF PROJECT 914 TURBO!!!

I'd been having some smoke and blow by issues with project 914 turbo. I don't directly pin these problems to the turbo, as the motor was re-built by Brad Mayeur some 15 yrs ago or so, and has served me faithfully for that time, being beaten nearly to death auto crossing for the last 10 yrs. It doesn't owe me anything, I've more than gotten my moneys worth out of it.

I do believe the addition of forced induction has served to magnify the condition time has placed on the little motor that could, and any worn parts were just made that much more obvious. Nothing is broken, but its time for a re-build.

And so I have contacted Jake, and we have an interesting plan to make the most of my dollar, using a mix of 1.7 and 2.0 parts to build a turbo specific motor. Heads are already on their way to Len. I need next week to get the motor dropped so parts of the 2.0 can go to Jake for checking and re-building.

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/showthread.php?t=2819

(link to the discussion and planning of the new motor)

Needless to say, I'm looking foreword to next season, and hunting down that darn 350+ whp Comptech supercharged S2K that beat me 2x last year by a just tenths of a second.

HEAD PORN!

hey, Hey, HEY, get your minds back on cars you guys!

Len sent a pic of the head- not much done beyond a good clean up and inspection. Sharp eyes will note the plug location has been changed. Len thought the heads would be moving along in the next couple weeks, so I'll post more of the magic as I get updates.

Gotta get going, the garage is calling, got the top side of the motor un-buttoned a couple weeks ago, still need to drop the motor and tear down the 2.0, getting some parts to Jake for inspection/machining.

Dave,

How did you plumb the turbo for cooling? what size of lines? what type of fittings to tap in where you did? Is it in the same loop of cooling line as the oil cooler?

The 9B turbo I'm currently using came from a mitzu 3000 GT, its the front turbo off that twin turbo motor. In its native application, it has oil lube and water cooling. In my car, I plugged the water fittings, not like I needed to, but it looked a little better and kept road grime out of there, and am using just oil to lube/cool the turbo.

The oil cooler is running off a sandwich plate adapter with a thermostat built into it. The lines from the adapter to the cooler and back to not share any function with the turbo oiling. As the turbo needs oil from start up, I couldn't tap into the supply to the cooler, as if the thermostat on the sandwich plate had not reached operating temperature, there'd be no oil for the turbo, and thats no good. The oil coming from the turbo leaves the turbo by gravity, so plumbing that into the return to the motor from the cooler would not work either, as there would be a back pressure from the cooler return line to the drain line of the turbo. Again, no good.

Go to pg 4, comment 79, the photos attached there show the "T" fitting I added at the base of the oil sending unit. This got a braided stainless brake line attached to it to supply oil to the turbo. The brake line was, l think, under $10 bucks from the local dirt track supply store. Cheeper than anything summit or jegs had to offer. Pays to shop. The oil goes to the turbo, then drains out and into a tildon differential pump, now being used as a scavenge pump, to get the engine oil back to the motor. Seems I forgot to post the return trip pics for the oil. It goes from the turbo to the Tildon, and from there back thru the engine tin, where it attaches to a fitting I drilled and tapped into the lower area of the oil fill tower. Here are the pics of adding that fitting: First are the tools needed, 2nd is drilling pilot hole, 3 and 4 are tapping the hole. I used lots of oil on the tap. To catch shavings, I stuck several old socks in the oil fill, saturated them in oil, and took frequent stops to feel for any shavings coming off the back of the tap. Any I missed or couldn't feel were caught in the oil/socks. I'm pretty sure none got thru. Last photo shows the braided supply line from the oil sending unit, and the black return line from the tildon pump, attached to the oil tower. I chose to drain the oil back up there, rather than in a valve cover as others have done, because at an auto cross, with extended G loading of a long sweeper, I didn't want to risk filling a valve cover, and having the tildon try to fight to hard to evacuate the turbo oil into a full valve cover.

Don't know if this answered your question, but there it is.

Below is a copy/paste from a comment I made on another turbo thread on our forums. I wanted to add it to this thread because I don't want people to think:

1- You need a ton of money to do this. I'm spending a lot of cash, over alot of years, but this is my hobby. I don't drink much, have no tatoos, no wacky collections, other than Porsche books. I enjoy this like someone else might love to golf or fish. The journey is for me often more satisfying than the destination. You can spend alot more, (ah, Chappy...) or alot less. If you steal some ideas from these pages, go for it. If you come up with better solutions, share them.

2- I didn't want anyone to think the new motor is because I blew up the old one. It was on its last rpm's awhile ago. If you're thinking of a turbo, either make sure your motor is healthy, or do like I did, work out the bugs of your turbo system on a sick motor, if it blows, it was gonna go anyway. Then build the motor you want the turbo to be on.


"My intent in making this comment was not to imply that you needed a large wad of cash, or a bottomless pit of stuff to break, but to get the point across that if you build it, you'll gain a better understanding of how it works, and if/when it breaks, you'll be in a better situation to understand the failure mode and how to repair/avoid it again in the future.

My SDS is a fine example. I am more interested in the overall engineering of the turbo system than the workings of the EFI. I could have built myself a mega-squirt system, but knew of others who had and ended up with problems getting the build right, then working thru the screens and screens of programing, and if one little thing is off, say the voltage range for the TPS on the system set up does not match the actual range of the TPS used, more trouble shooting to find and fix this, IF you don't pop a motor trying to tune around the problem. I elected to spend a little more and go with a proven system, and had great fun designing the layout of the wiring harness, fuel lines, linkages, and ecu location. Much more fun than I would have had tracking down a diode that I installed backwards one night at 9pm. If the SDS fails, I won't know where to start, but with the beyond excellent customer service they have shown me, I won't have to. I chose not to get more educated by the been there done that school for the efi part of the project, but I did a TON of research on what unit to buy.

Whats that got to do w/a turbo on a 914? EvilEd did not make a kit for his system, he used an idea for CIS, that I think, but may not recall completely, was a retro-fit offered as a kit for for bus engines, and morphed that into a very good 914 system, but for the most part, its a one off build. Chappy has done amazing things with his turbo system, and in his quest for fire, or rather power, had moved up into bigger and better engines. He was more interested in building the perfect 914, so he applied his efforts in that direction, farming out the motor build.

My system is loosely based on the kits from STS. Google STS turbo and you'll get to their site. My turbo car has been an evolution. I bought the ITB's from Jake several years before I used them, as I was thinking NA at that time. So step one was to mount the ITB's, get fuel and linkages figured out, install and tune the SDS. I strongly considered selling the ITB's and going CIS for the turbo, when the turbo bug bit, as I had been following Ed's build closely, but went SDS for several reasons: Its a great system that has all the features I need, and few I don't, service/support is excellent, and it controls spark and fuel. That was probably the big reason I didn't go CIS, I wanted to be able to fine tune the ignition curve for NA and boosted operation. I also liked the clean look of the engine compartment with the ITB's and the harness/fuel lines tucked up out of the way, and there was LOTS of room for an intercooler as well.

As far as the system not being reliable, well, draw your own conclusions. The motor in the car currently is probably 12 or more yrs into its last re-build, and was using some oil prior to the turbo. I was figuring that with running a dozen auto crosses and schools a year, for the last 10 yrs, that I had maybe a yr or 2 left in the motor before it would be really needing a re-build, just on general principles and accumulated beatings/mileage. If I'm finishing top 10 in 100+ car grids I'm not being any to easy on the hardware to do this. So putting the turbo on it was not at all the cause of my doing a new motor, it was part of the plan. Using a tired motor for the test subject, if I really messed up and popped it, not much lost. I have proven to myself the system as it is installed all works as it should. The turbo and motor have stood up to 11.5psi on pump gas. My school of hard knocks intercooler plenum and fan set up will be improved upon for the new motor, and with better heads and cam, the whole system should breath much better, which should spool the turbo sooner, and its all good in the end. When will it be "done"? Never. And for me, thats part of the fun.

Whose system is best? Blonde, brunette, or red head? Chappy has made the most amazing street 914 I could imagine. Trunk space has been lost, mega horse power and super-coolness found. Ed's/Nein's set up tucks into the factory location, not even loosing the raintray, and has been as reliable as gravity for 7 yrs of boost. Outstanding! And while the cost of the "used" parts is less than what I have into mine, I suspect if there was a 10 page build thread there was plenty of machine work and trial and error to get it right. Mine is a little different still, and works fine, and should be a hoot with a stronger engine as the project continues to evolve.

Back to the project at hand: Draw thru would not need a RR FPR, but the carbon seal is a must. Consider your location also- while I do not have direct experience on this, I understand the draw thru systems can be prone to iceing and other issues in temps below 40-50 degrees or so. Read up on what Bell has to say on this. I considered a draw thru as well, but thought it to be a step backward from the CIS, and 2 steps back from the SDS, however depending on the budget, and intended use of the car, draw thru could be the way to go for this build. For me, driving to events in the early spring in 30 degree temps, draw thru was not an option, but the bug guys have been doing it for a while and making it work fine."

Dave,

You are awesome at answering questions! wow, and thank you!

MORE HEAD PORN!

Progress has been slow at Hoffman automotive, but I'm in no hurry. Quality can take time, and I'm certainly aware that my heads aren't the only thing Len has on his plate. I can take a back seat to racers who need an emergency repair, or others who got their project in to him before mine.

Still way to busy at work, and my motor is not dropped yet. Always looking on the bright side, work seems to have slowed a little recently, and Nancy is gone overnight for her work for a couple nights this wk, so maybe, just maybe I can get in the garage and get things moving on my end. I'm so close- just need to disconnect 1 CV, don't forget that ground strap, and the wire to the oil temp sending unit in the sump plate, and she should be ready to drop.

Now a few pics:

So....what valve sizes are you and Len going with?

Looking good

:drool:

They look like they should be able to flow nicely!

We are going with 40 x 36mm valves. I want to make sure David has a very high I/E flow ratio for the turbo, and we want to make sure the engine is responsive at lower revs, hence the smaller intakes. This should be a very snappy combo!

I do not like large bores for turbo T4 engines. The small bore, long stroke set-up will keep as much head strength as possible and put the torque at the RPM's David says he want's it at (same place I like it too); down low and mid range. I'm eager to see how this combo suits him.

Getting closer now... a little more head porn... talked to Len today, he expects them to be done soon now. Next steps, cc the chambers and get with Jake on the specs for the J & E pistons. These are the "magic bullet" that makes this all work, being sized for my cyls, and having a correct pin height to work with the crank and rods I'll be using. Bummer? 6-8 weeks or more for the J/E's to show up. I thought I was giving myself enough lead time, but, oh well, not going to hurry this along and mess something up. After all, I an always drive my wife's M car to auto cross while I get the 914 turbo motor built. Now, a couple pics of the heads, and the spare auto crosser...

Back from the dead- My wife needed to have BOTH her ACL's replaced this summer, so I've been a little busy of late. Taking care of her, doing everything she usually does around our house, and looking to suck up all the OT I can from work, as she is self employed and there is no ST or LT disability to claim. Finally got the engine tore down and the last parts sent to Jake for inspection.

The P/C's didn't look bad at all, they'll probably be sold, as will the 2.0 heads. I think the problem with the oil burning of the motor was an esxhaust valve guide, as when I took the kerry hunter apart, 3 of the 4 header tubes were bone dry inside, but one was had oil inside it. The heads, didn't look bad at all either. For a n/a motor, the guide might be just fine, but with some extra pressure from the boost, its weakness became apparent.

Now some pics: P/C's

...more pics, cam and lifters. (ouch!)

cam and lifters.

bearings...

crank and rods

crank and rods- close ups

Last but not least, the miata seen in prior pics has been replaced with this: a 2000 Audi TT. 180 HP, fwd model, 70K one owner miles, and note the back of the car- no "bird perch" spoiler. This is an un-modified car. Audi offered a factory "update" to the suspension, which served to basically dull the response of the car. You can tell the updated cars as they all have the rear spoiler, this one does not. Its not a 914, but its also NOT a miata...

Getting closer... Len has been holding off on the heads until the rest of the parts are ready. Case, crank, rods have been sent to Jake for inspection and re-manufacture. While getting the bits and pieces together, I sent the exhaust system out for Jet Hot coating. Thats pretty cool stuff. I got the extra high temp coating, so its not a chrome bright finish, but still silver and shiny. They coat the inside and outside of the headers and collector. Should look nice with a turbo tacked on the back of it.

Good news, bad news, and an plan...

Got a call back from the Blake in the shop, working on my parts yesterday...

Good news: The crank looks great, has not been messed with, is std/std, should need only light polishing to be ready for balance. The flywheel needs only a light cut to be ready. The rod big ends are in spec, need no work, the bushing in the small end showed minimal wear, was in spec as well. They test fit the new JE pistons and pins to the rods, everyone was happy, nothing to tight, nothing to loose. So polish the crank, assemble the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, clutch disc, crankshaft, fan, and then balance/index the whole assembly, do an oil system mod to the rods so they will get some oil up on the underside of the pistons, balance the rods, and its all ready to come home.

Bad news: The case has its issues. The crankshaft bore was in spec, however the end bearing by the flywheel has enough wear on the thrust surface that this should be addressed. An odd and tricky bit of work, you need the right tools to get it done right. The shop to do this is in CA. So more shipping there and back, and as it was explained to me, to machine the case to resolve the thrust surface issues, the case will be align bored, the thrust surface cut, and a special ($$$) new bearing will be needed. The estimate, and this is just a guess, is 4-500 to get this done, shipped, and back to the shop in ACH, then they can check/confirm its done right, and more shipping back to me.

I have another case at my father-in-laws place, collecting dust in the barn. Over Christmas I'll be hauling that one home, taking it apart, and seeing if maybe an aircooled oriented shop in the twin cities can be found to have a look at case #2. If thats in better shape, I might be dollars ahead just to tap and plug that case and move on.

UPDATE: Found a (sort of, he's a good 2 hrs drive time each way from my place) local aircooled machine shop to have a look at my spare case. Talked to the guy today, after leaving a ton of messages, he sounded excited by the turbo 914 project. He has been doing type 1 and type IV work forever, does air craft conversions of air cooled motors, comes well referenced by some other folks in the MN 914/Porsche community. He also does work on Model "A" motors. His machine shop sounds huge, and includes an engine dyno for the aircooled motors. He has used SDS on many of the aircraft conversions, and is familiar with that system, which, oddly enough, is what I'm running.

So, once I get my plan "B" motor torn down, it'll go to his place for inspection, and if it looks better than the 2.0 case that Jake and Co. should be sending back with my shiny new parts, I'll build off that one. Blake thinks a week or so to get the last of the work done on my stuff, so hopefully, soon, I'll have photos of a massIVe project to get started on.

And- anyone have any thoughts of the condition of the parts pictured above? I was suprised that no one chimed in on them. The pistons and cyls didn't look all that bad, but the cam and lifters looked a mess.

More updates to come!

PARTS ON THE WAY!!!!!

Got an email from Len that the heads should be done and on the way monday or so. Can hardly wait to see the magic he has done to them. Of course I'll pitch up some pics when they arrive.

I this project!

Was expecting from MR. UPS a box on tuesday... found an odd large box at home today after returning home from a funeral... box is from some guy named Hoffman?

MMmmmmmmm...... shiny new parts...

Intake and exhaust:

keep em coming Dave!

Glad to hear you like the heads Dave! I was very happy with the way they turned out! When do we get to hear it run?

BTW, I hope your cat wasn't offended by the scents left behind by my shop cats (Blanche & Blossom) rubbing on your box! My girls mark every package that enters or leaves the shop!

Head porn, some of the best...

Now Dave, is that cot where you sleep now that your wife found the receipts for the new parts?

Still waiting on that CD of turbo pics...

MORE PARTS!!!!

(that darn wife)

Apparently Mr. Fed-x stopped by yesterday, and left 7 boxes in the garage. Mrs. Me sort of forgot to mention this last night..... GGGrrrrrrrrrr... A practical joke is one thing, but c'mon, these are 914 parts! Have meetings with the boss all day, so I just can't blow off work and tear into those boxes, but you can bet the cardboard will be flying this pm. And pics added.

Cone- haven't forgot about your cd, but wanted to set up and take a few more of the exhaust and IC routing, since with everything out of the car, its easier to follow the route from air cleaner to engine.

parts, Parts, PARTS!!!!! I haven't had a chance to pull my invoice and see that every last little bit I ordered is here, but from my initial "tear into it all and drool" it looks like its all there. Those JE pistons are the silver bullet that makes it all work, matching the 2.0 crank and rods to the smaller bore we're going with, to promote a better jug to head seal. Still a long way to go- need to get the case situation figured out, then set up a clean room in the garage, start prepping parts, then finally put wrench to metal.

Big box is the case. Nice job, Fed-x. Balanced crank. The flywheel, clutch system, crank, and fan were balanced as an assembly. Cool.

More fun parts-

Re-surface, balanced, lightened flywheel. New clutch and pressure plate to put the power down. Cam, bearings, other goodies to build a motor.

My favorite picture- the silver bullet, the JE pistons, that make this all possible. Good to go to take the heat from some boost, set up to mate the 2.0 crank/rods to the smaller than 2.0 bore we are going with to (hopefully) get a better seal between the jugs and the head. Balanced rods with ARP bolts, and OEM 1.7 jugs bored out for the pistons.

Whoa. That was all pretty good. Almost as good as... Uh, I think I need a smoke.

Very nice. When you get that thing put back together you'll have to take a trip down South to my neck of the woods. Mine won't be running anytime soon otherwise I'd head up your way.

Nice Dave... Too bad you can't turbocharge a 914...

Wait a minute... no one ever told me THAT... Oh boy...

Late Breaking News!

I have made contact with an old aircooled engine builder, with a shop full of cool machine tools. He's built everything from restoration 36hp vw's, to 400 hp sandrail engines, airplane conversions, turbo hondas, model A fords, Porsche 6 cyls, all manner of scca FV motors. He's done plenty of big money motors in the last 30yrs, but in his "retirement" likes projects that are a little out there, interesting and challenging, different. He agreed to assist and help build the turbo type IV.

AND, Mrs. Me agreed that taking a week off work to build the motor and get it installed would be a good thing, so...

The last week of May, so long as things calm down at his shop a little, we'll be building the long block. I'll need to get it back home and dress it with tin and cooling, and install it and the turbo goodies on my own. I designed it, built it, took it apart, I should be able to get it back together.

I'm equal parts excited and terrified. Can hardly wait to drive the car again and see how the mix of bits Jake and Len and I came up with works, but a little concerned that it all comes together and I don't do something bone-headed.

Oh, and lets "boost" up the votes for the yellow turbo car in the COTM. Voting ends tomorrow...

Thanks for your support and interest. More update coming nearer the end of May and into June.

Cool! If I might ask, who are we talking about here? I know a few of the oldsters in Minnesota.

Dave, you need to be less subtle... You are blazing new 914 territory.

VOTE FOR CAR #3 IN THE COTM THREAD GOING ON NOW!!!

The guys name is: Dick Burns.

There is a little concern on Jakes site that some old timer is going to build the motor the way they did it 30 yrs ago... My plan is to build it (mostly)myself, with a laptop and Jakes dvd, in his shop, with every machine tool known to mankind available for use should something need a tweek, and someone there who knows how to use them all. And, when it time to measure for deck height, valve train geometry and such, the measuring tools and set ups should be right at hand, saving me time trying to figure out how to use whatever is in my garage to get the right info to be sure the build goes well.

I recall the name. I worked with Bill Jenkins at Dune Buggy Supply when I was in high school and just after getting back from the military.

I can't imagine you letting someone else build that motor... You have put too much design effort into it. I like using Mark's shop because he has a clean room. Small but clean

Dick built the align bore machine for dune buggy supply. The one thing I think may be different is the valvetrain geometry set up with the modified swivel foot rockers and the pushrods set to zero lash, there is a thread on jake's site covering that topic. I'd make sure to have that handy, but other than that I'll think you guys will do fine!

I'd love nothing more than to hang with you guys at Marks place and build turbo motors, but you're only about 1/2 a country to far to the west.

I've had some questions on how the turbo lines are routed. There are plenty of photos of this in the thread, but the car sometimes gets in the way of seeing exactly whats going on here. So, I finally got around to taking some pics of the bits and pieces as they would be set up- without the car.

These first couple are the kerry hunter header to the turbo, and exhaust out the back of the car.

A few more of the exhaust side of things-

Now we'll take the compressed air up to the intercooler. The long tube with the double bend goes under the back trunk, next to the starter, and thru the verticle back tin. The loose clamp on this piece is roughly where the pipe goes thru the back tin, by the starter.

Once thru the back tin the charge air goes thru the straight piece, with a 90 on one end, and 2-45's on the other, to bring the charge air up and into the intercooler, which mounts to the chassis of the car on 2 bars running across the engine compartment.

The charge air then exits at the big end of the 90 degree fitting, and into a stock WRX intercooler. I'm running the air backwards thru the intercooler from how it is used in the WRX install, but doing this allows me to use the intercooler as a splitter of sorts, to divide up the charge and send it L and R to the ITB's.