914World.com > Wheels and Tires

Pat Garvey

Jan 16 2008, 08:21 PM

QUOTE(1970 Neun vierzehn @ Jan 13 2008, 11:25 PM)

I would venture to say that if that 914 had paint-to-match the bodywork wheels when it was delivered new, the dealer, more than likely, was responsible. When I acquired my '70/4 in 1975, I knew of an Irish Green 914 that had yellow painted steelies. I knew for a fact that the owner had painted them that color (perhaps he really wanted a Lotus

), and back then, I thought it looked pretty neat (that '70s show/Disco era sort of thing). Now if I saw it...

Paul

Ewww! That's FUGLY!

black73

Jan 18 2008, 04:10 PM

QUOTE

Is the spare Red???

Ferg

I remembered the spare was behind the garage, so I dug it out and sanded a spot to see...

Click to view attachment

It's possible this was not originally the spare, since it has a Kelly Springfield tire on it, but that would mean the spare is one of the other red wheels.

Ferg

Jan 30 2008, 05:08 PM

Interesting...

Sand a spot on the back... I would think that a dealer would only paint the front of the rim.

Ferg

black73

Jan 31 2008, 04:15 PM

QUOTE(Ferg @ Jan 30 2008, 05:08 PM)

Interesting...

Sand a spot on the back... I would think that a dealer would only paint the front of the rim.

Ferg

No red on the back...

Ferg

Feb 1 2008, 11:36 AM

QUOTE(black73 @ Jan 31 2008, 03:15 PM)

QUOTE(Ferg @ Jan 30 2008, 05:08 PM)

Interesting...

Sand a spot on the back... I would think that a dealer would only paint the front of the rim.

Ferg

No red on the back...

Like others, I would think it was dealer done then...

Ferg

TROJANMAN

Feb 2 2008, 09:44 AM

This is a fascinating conversation........

Pat Garvey

Feb 10 2008, 07:22 PM

First off, I'll use my "ignorance is bliss" byline here. I know little about 914 Fuchs wheels, other than wishing I could put some on my 72.

But.....I'm noticing more and more late 914's on eBay with Fuchs on all four corners, but a steelie spare.

Did they come this way? Or, was a set of Fuchs supposed to be a set of five?
Pat

jonferns

Feb 10 2008, 08:03 PM

My car happens to have a set of 5 2.0 fuchs.

TROJANMAN

Feb 12 2008, 09:37 PM

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 10 2008, 06:22 PM)

First off, I'll use my "ignorance is bliss" byline here. I know little about 914 Fuchs wheels, other than wishing I could put some on my 72.

But.....I'm noticing more and more late 914's on eBay with Fuchs on all four corners, but a steelie spare.

Did they come this way? Or, was a set of Fuchs supposed to be a set of five?
Pat

The dealers would often take the spare Fuchs out of cars to create a set of four, for cars that had steelies. Then they would throw the steelie in as a spare.

Pat Garvey

Feb 13 2008, 07:55 PM

QUOTE(TROJANMAN @ Feb 12 2008, 10:37 PM)

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 10 2008, 06:22 PM)

First off, I'll use my "ignorance is bliss" byline here. I know little about 914 Fuchs wheels, other than wishing I could put some on my 72.

But.....I'm noticing more and more late 914's on eBay with Fuchs on all four corners, but a steelie spare.

Did they come this way? Or, was a set of Fuchs supposed to be a set of five?
Pat

The dealers would often take the spare Fuchs out of cars to create a set of four, for cars that had steelies. Then they would throw the steelie in as a spare.

Sonsabitches!

Think they'd get away with that today?
Pat

McMark

Jun 29 2008, 03:32 PM

I wonder if the very few cars that came with factory painted bumpers also had painted wheels...

I'm not ready to write off the painted wheels as dealer 'trickery'.

Porsche Rescue

Jun 29 2008, 03:34 PM

I don't think so. I remember seeing many painted-bumper cars at the dealer in 1970. They all had silver painted wheels.

TheMirror

Feb 2 2009, 10:26 PM

Cheers all -

OK, so I'm a front-engined water cooler Porsche guy (968), but I'm having a great time researching the 914 series right now for a big spec database I'm putting together.

Far more wheel options came with these cars than I had originally thought. I wonder if this thread could use a comprehensive list as to exactly what was available in what year?

So far I have -

1970 - 4.5" Painted steel
1971 - 4.5" Painted steel, 5.5" Chrome steel, 5.5" Pedrini
1972 - 4.5" Painted steel, 5.5" Chrome steel, 5.5" Pedrini
1973 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle
1974 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle
1975 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle
1976 - 5.5" Painted steel (new style), 5.5" forged Fuchs, 5.5" Mahle

Not sure exactly how and when the Pedrini's or the Mahles fit into this mix, although this article from Pelican sheds some new light on it:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...wheel_types.htm
Looks like PR below clears up the question of 8 spoke Mahles being available vs. the 10 spoke gas burners which were for 6 cyl. cars only. Article confirms that.

Does that list look right?

Cheers,
-Mirror

Porsche Rescue

Feb 2 2009, 10:47 PM

You have a lot more work to do. The Pedrini wheel was the first factory alloy, 1971. There were no factory option wheels in '70 (edit: for the four) unless the Pedrini came late that year. I bought a new '70 with chromes but they were aftermarket dealer option and no alloys were available. I am sure the Mahle came sometime after the Pedrini. They were eight spoke, gas burners were 5 lug for 914-6 and 911 only.

TheMirror

Feb 3 2009, 01:08 AM

QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ Feb 2 2009, 08:47 PM)

You have a lot more work to do. The Pedrini wheel was the first factory alloy, 1971. There were no factory option wheels in '70 unless the Pedrini came late that year. I bought a new '70 with chromes but they were aftermarket dealer option and no alloys were available. I am sure the Mahle came sometime after the Pedrini. They were eight spoke, gas burners were 5 lug for 914-6 and 911 only.

Thanks for that info!
-Mirror

Johny Blackstain

Feb 3 2009, 09:02 AM

QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ Feb 2 2009, 11:47 PM)

You have a lot more work to do. The Pedrini wheel was the first factory alloy, 1971. There were no factory option wheels in '70 unless the Pedrini came late that year. I bought a new '70 with chromes but they were aftermarket dealer option and no alloys were available. I am sure the Mahle came sometime after the Pedrini. They were eight spoke, gas burners were 5 lug for 914-6 and 911 only.

The six had wheel options in 1970- came w/ steelies or Fuchs & the Mahle 5 lug gas burners were optional. The Mahle is still one of the lightest wheels ever produced, @ 9.2lbs each.

Pat Garvey

Feb 11 2009, 09:36 PM

It should also be noted that painted 5.5" steelies were a part of the appearance group on the early fours, though, in the case of the VERY EARLY fours, this may or may not have been the case.
Pat

tod914

Feb 15 2009, 09:30 PM

Great tire discussion guys. Thanks for sharing your years of experience. I was wondering what to do. Seems like James has me convinced to go with the 165hr 15 Vredestein. Zone 1 comming up in May, hopefully will have all the suspension stuff done by then. My spare is a continenal tt 714 radial, original to the car.

Pat Garvey

Feb 21 2009, 08:36 PM

QUOTE(tod914 @ Feb 15 2009, 10:30 PM)

Great tire discussion guys. Thanks for sharing your years of experience. I was wondering what to do. Seems like James has me convinced to go with the 165hr 15 Vredestein. Zone 1 comming up in May, hopefully will have all the suspension stuff done by then. My spare is a continenal tt 714 radial, original to the car.

Tod,
Vredesteins were never original to US 914s. You may want to give this some more thought.
Pat

Porsche Rescue

Feb 21 2009, 09:27 PM

I continue to believe that the best option for a concours car is the 165 Michelin xzx, available from Coker Tire. They are very spendy.
I know others argue that you must have an H rated tire. While H tires may have been OE for some years, and for sure on the six, I know that the S rated xzx was OE in '76 as I once owned one with its original tires.
And Michelin was OE, even in '70. The tire sticker on the '70 I own now calls for 155 SR 15 as it has 4.5" wheels. Vredenstein is period correct and size correct but, as Pat says, was never OE.

Jasfsmith

Feb 23 2009, 11:33 AM

Though I think a period correct tire size would be best for the CW types (Pat is losing my respect here <grin>), I doubt that the Zone 1 Concour will be that critical in the tire presentation.

Unless I appear as a judge. And I'm not saying I will be ......

tod914

Feb 23 2009, 11:41 AM

How do the 2 tires compare in regard to road handeling? Simular I suppose? I won't make a decession for a couple months yet. Have to see if and when the Michi's become available. James, zone 1 isn't that stringent? More like a local PCA event regarding judgeing?

Jasfsmith

Feb 23 2009, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(tod914 @ Feb 23 2009, 12:41 PM)

How do the 2 tires compare in regard to road handeling? Simular I suppose? I won't make a decession for a couple months yet. Have to see if and when the Michi's become available. James, zone 1 isn't that stringent? More like a local PCA event regarding judgeing?

I 've had both the Michelin ZX and Verdisten on my 914-4, and can honestly say I found no ride or handling difference. On the 914-6 I have the XAS's which are defintely a step up to the ZXZ's. My optimum would the the XWX's which were always a good sticky tire. Pricey as hell and limited wear life.

Before the XAS, I ran a couple of contemporary low profile tires. They looked better (maybe) and handled far better, however I found the ride a bit harsh, and "heavy".

The few Zone 1 events I've attended, I would say the judging to be more knowledgeable than local PCA and other club events. For me, it was a good look at what to expect at the national level (the judges were most helpful and encouraging in that regard).

In straight comparison, the Zone 1 is walk in the park compared to the national level. A lot less pressure. (Look at what it's done to Pat Garvey at the national level. <grin>)

Pat Garvey

Feb 23 2009, 07:44 PM

QUOTE(Jasfsmith @ Feb 23 2009, 01:35 PM)

QUOTE(tod914 @ Feb 23 2009, 12:41 PM)

How do the 2 tires compare in regard to road handeling? Simular I suppose? I won't make a decession for a couple months yet. Have to see if and when the Michi's become available. James, zone 1 isn't that stringent? More like a local PCA event regarding judgeing?

I 've had both the Michelin ZX and Verdisten on my 914-4, and can honestly say I found no ride or handling difference. On the 914-6 I have the XAS's which are defintely a step up to the ZXZ's. My optimum would the the XWX's which were always a good sticky tire. Pricey as hell and limited wear life.

Before the XAS, I ran a couple of contemporary low profile tires. They looked better (maybe) and handled far better, however I found the ride a bit harsh, and "heavy".

The few Zone 1 events I've attended, I would say the judging to be more knowledgeable than local PCA and other club events. For me, it was a good look at what to expect at the national level (the judges were most helpful and encouraging in that regard).

In straight comparison, the Zone 1 is walk in the park compared to the national level. A lot less pressure. (Look at what it's done to Pat Garvey at the national level. <grin>)

And THIS is where I cross the boundary between total originality...and functionality.

We've had this discussion before. I absolutely WILL NOT put tires of 70's design on my pride and joy. I draw the line here.

I've done it before - lost wins at national level, because of my tire choice. I'll do it again, but have learned how to make up the difference. No. I won't put radical tites on (and I'm open for suggestions), but wish I could get more of the Yoko A008R's I had before. Safe, sticky, don't wear well, but who cares.

Now, I've had my 914 from day one, with (in my opinion) crap tires. It was a daily driver. One wet roads (shuddder!) it was a skate. In the snow, it did 180's regularly. Why? Tires! I first switched from the origional Conti's to XAS. Worse that the Conti's. That's when it was parked in wet or snow. Found Pirelli CN36's! They were/are great, but 28 years old. Great auto-x tire, too.

Then I found Yoko's! Such sweat tires! They're on my 73 T now. But, they're old too.

So...what do I put on the 914? You can bet that I won't spend 1800 bucks for inferior tires from Coker (with installation). I may be a CW, but when it comes to safety & performance I draw the line.

Sorry to those that haven't come to this conclusion. Drive a 914 in the wet with XAS's. You'll see.
Pat

Jasfsmith

Feb 24 2009, 08:42 AM

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 23 2009, 08:44 PM)

We've had this discussion before. I absolutely WILL NOT put tires of 70's design on my pride and joy. I draw the line here.

I've done it before - lost wins at national level, because of my tire choice. I'll do it again, but have learned how to make up the difference. No. I won't put radical tites on (and I'm open for suggestions), but wish I could get more of the Yoko A008R's I had before. Safe, sticky, don't wear well, but who cares.

Now, I've had my 914 from day one, with (in my opinion) crap tires. It was a daily driver. One wet roads (shuddder!) it was a skate. In the snow, it did 180's regularly. Why? Tires! I first switched from the origional Conti's to XAS. Worse that the Conti's. That's when it was parked in wet or snow. Found Pirelli CN36's! They were/are great, but 28 years old. Great auto-x tire, too.

Then I found Yoko's! Such sweat tires! They're on my 73 T now. But, they're old too.

So...what do I put on the 914? You can bet that I won't spend 1800 bucks for inferior tires from Coker (with installation). I may be a CW, but when it comes to safety & performance I draw the line.

Sorry to those that haven't come to this conclusion. Drive a 914 in the wet with XAS's. You'll see.
Pat

As I understand it, the current offering of Coker tires employ current methods and materials. The size and exterior design is the only part that conforms to the original tire manufacturer. Coker licenses the original molds from the original manufacturer.

I fully agree that contempprary tire deisign puts more rubber on the road, and in so doing has necessitated an advancement in tread pattern to shed water, however as to construction, I disagree. All tires produced today have to meet DOT requirements of today.

In Maine (and I suspect the majority of states), it is an inspection requirement that the car run with tire size (diameter profile, rating) as recommended by the vehicle's manufacturer. Inspection stations here have been (inceasingly so) adhering to the letter of the law. Not to say that there are no ways around it.

As to wet handling, good judgement in driving prevails. I can out drive my windshield wipers long before the tire grip is affected. May I need to istall new wiper blades.

Hey, aren't you the guy whose car never sees rain? <GRIN>

(Pat, you didn't think I was going to let you off that easy did you?)

Porsche Rescue

Feb 24 2009, 09:39 AM

James, what is your opinion of my view that the Coker S rated XZX is the closest available choice for a concour 914. Seeking agreement but can tolerate reasoned dissent.

Jasfsmith

Feb 24 2009, 10:28 AM

QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ Feb 24 2009, 10:39 AM)

James, what is your opinion of my view that the Coker S rated XZX is the closest available choice for a concour 914. Seeking agreement but can tolerate reasoned dissent.

914-4 or 914-6, what year (early '70 914-4's came with 4.5 rims and the ZX, not XZX would be correct), what does your manual or sticker on the fender near the VIN number say?

I checked my notes and could not find a ZX 165x15SR offering, but did find a XZX 165x15SR, which likely would be correct for the 5.5x15 rim. I believe the HR rating was offered on the 914-6 only.

Porsche Rescue

Feb 24 2009, 11:40 AM

I think we are close to saying the same thing. Even Coker only stocks Vredestein in 155 S rated. They have XAS H rated but that would be overkill for a four with 4.5" wheels I think.

My point is that of all the imperfect choices, given that the ZX is NLA, for the purist, the 165SRx15 XZX is the closest to OE available for the 914-4.

BTW, I admired your car and shook your hand at the Portland Parade. Would not expect you to remember me, but hard to forget a beautiful tangerine six driven all the way from Maine!

Scott S

Feb 24 2009, 11:45 AM

I am cofused about something here. You are talking concour correct - going for the perfect car - something you can obviously spend years and years to acheive. Doesn't it make sense to simply buy a set of vintage tires (they are out there) throw a tube in them and mount them on your original wheels for events? Then, simply mount the updated/modern tries on another set of wheels?
We are doing this on the Jag - it is running period correct bias ply tires with wide whites on the original wire wheels for any and all shows. However, it's normal set up will be a new set of chrome wires with a nice set of radials - most likely sourced from our local Discount Tire.

You folks are talking parade level/true concour events correct? Not just the local show and shine "concour" put on by your local PCA as a charity event that most participate in.

I dont understand why after all of that prep/restoration, that you would then cut corners.

Porsche Rescue

Feb 24 2009, 11:52 AM

I agree with you Scott. That would be the best solution. I did not realize that correct vintage OE tires could be found, especially a full matching set. By the way, I am only in this discussion out of interest in the topic. I do not have or plan to have a show quality 914 at any level.

tod914

Feb 24 2009, 01:52 PM

My car had the original tires on it just prior to purchase. The po changed them and had the shop hold them for me to pick up. They some how got thrown away by the shop owner. Riggggght. I brought this up on the local pca board. The general concencious was 35 year old tires pose a potential saftey issue and would be best to replace anyway. Still undecided on what route to go, but Scott you idea sounds perfect. 1 set for shows and the other for driving.
James, the gas tank label on mine call for HR rated.

Pat Garvey

Feb 24 2009, 08:06 PM

QUOTE(Jasfsmith @ Feb 24 2009, 09:42 AM)

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 23 2009, 08:44 PM)

We've had this discussion before. I absolutely WILL NOT put tires of 70's design on my pride and joy. I draw the line here.

I've done it before - lost wins at national level, because of my tire choice. I'll do it again, but have learned how to make up the difference. No. I won't put radical tites on (and I'm open for suggestions), but wish I could get more of the Yoko A008R's I had before. Safe, sticky, don't wear well, but who cares.

Now, I've had my 914 from day one, with (in my opinion) crap tires. It was a daily driver. One wet roads (shuddder!) it was a skate. In the snow, it did 180's regularly. Why? Tires! I first switched from the origional Conti's to XAS. Worse that the Conti's. That's when it was parked in wet or snow. Found Pirelli CN36's! They were/are great, but 28 years old. Great auto-x tire, too.

Then I found Yoko's! Such sweat tires! They're on my 73 T now. But, they're old too.

So...what do I put on the 914? You can bet that I won't spend 1800 bucks for inferior tires from Coker (with installation). I may be a CW, but when it comes to safety & performance I draw the line.

Sorry to those that haven't come to this conclusion. Drive a 914 in the wet with XAS's. You'll see.
Pat

As I understand it, the current offering of Coker tires employ current methods and materials. The size and exterior design is the only part that conforms to the original tire manufacturer. Coker licenses the original molds from the original manufacturer.

I fully agree that contempprary tire deisign puts more rubber on the road, and in so doing has necessitated an advancement in tread pattern to shed water, however as to construction, I disagree. All tires produced today have to meet DOT requirements of today.

In Maine (and I suspect the majority of states), it is an inspection requirement that the car run with tire size (diameter profile, rating) as recommended by the vehicle's manufacturer. Inspection stations here have been (inceasingly so) adhering to the letter of the law. Not to say that there are no ways around it.

As to wet handling, good judgement in driving prevails. I can out drive my windshield wipers long before the tire grip is affected. May I need to istall new wiper blades.

Hey, aren't you the guy whose car never sees rain? <GRIN>

(Pat, you didn't think I was going to let you off that easy did you?)

Yep, my 914 hasn'r seen water, or any form of it, since 1978.

That will end in 3 years. No more concours, no more namby-pamby care.

When I hit 65, we're touring the perimter of the USA in the 914, with some dips into the southern Rockies. The 914 will be beaten to a pulp. I expect the tour to take 6 months, maybe longer. The car WILL be in rain, so I need tires to support the effort.

It will wear no bra, it will be taken to task. I hope we enjoy the trip, but will have a list of "helpers" along the way in case of problems. I expect the trip to encompass at leat 10K miles.

After that trip, it will be repainted & rebuilt. And sold.

This trip will be my last venture into 914's. I'll be too old to really make an effort after that.

Yes, my 914 will get wet. Yes, it will make the trip with contemporary tires. Yes, it get athorough going over after the trip. Yes, it will be sold. Yes, I will retire from the 914 World.

But that's 3 years away. So, I can remain my salty self until then.

Pat

slackin' at work

Feb 24 2009, 09:03 PM

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 24 2009, 09:06 PM)

...And sold.

DIBS!
no need to repaint or rebuild... I'll take it as-is.

seriously.

Jasfsmith

Feb 25 2009, 08:34 AM

QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ Feb 24 2009, 12:40 PM)

My point is that of all the imperfect choices, given that the ZX is NLA, for the purist, the 165SRx15 XZX is the closest to OE available for the 914-4.

BTW, I admired your car and shook your hand at the Portland Parade. Would not expect you to remember me, but hard to forget a beautiful tangerine six driven all the way from Maine!

I'd agree with you that the 165SR XZX would be the correct choice for 5.5 inch rims. I thought Coker had a165SR Vredestein available?

My approach for CW, any tire of period correct manufacture (whether on the car when delivered or not) that meets the size recomended by Porsche for that model year, would be acceptable. Tires after all, are a wear item and expected to be replaced.

The Portland Parade was great (aside from my near death experience the evening of the final banquet). Wife and I would like to make a return trip to see the things we missed.

JeffBowlsby

Feb 25 2009, 02:53 PM

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 24 2009, 06:06 PM)

When I hit 65...
This trip will be my last venture into 914's. I'll be too old to really make an effort after that. Yes, I will retire from the 914 World.

But that's 3 years away.

Pat

Yo Pat, Life does not end at 65 bro...no reason to give something up that you have enjoyed all your life just because you make a certain age...

At 65 grow a pony tail, start wearing flip flops and hawaiian shirts - year round...take up surfing or...Have you seen the recent movie 'bucket list'? You are our role model and inspiration! We look to you for...the exemplary 914 lifestyle..

carreraguy

Feb 25 2009, 04:43 PM

Seeing this discussion re: Coker tires reminds me that I still have five stock 4.5 inch steel wheels from my '76 (sold with Yoko ES100s) which were refinished by Harvey Weidman with period correct like-new (less than 50 miles) 165/85 Michelin XZX Coker tires. I offered them up on the World for sale section a few years ago but no one was interested. Anyone interested, PM me.
Later,

Jasfsmith

Feb 26 2009, 09:15 AM

QUOTE(Scott Schroeder @ Feb 24 2009, 12:45 PM)

You folks are talking parade level/true concour events correct? Not just the local show and shine "concour" put on by your local PCA as a charity event that most participate in.

I dont understand why after all of that prep/restoration, that you would then cut corners.

I am talking parade level/true concours events. Considering only optional tires when the original OEM is not available. I too have a second set of contemporary ties mounted to 14" Fuchs for regular use. With health issues over the past three years, I've not had the energy or strength to swap them over.

Porsche Rescue

Feb 26 2009, 09:20 AM

James, that begs the question, "What tires did you drive to Portland with?" If the contemporary, how pray tell did you transport wife, luggage and a set of tires?

Jasfsmith

Feb 26 2009, 09:54 AM

QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ Feb 26 2009, 10:20 AM)

James, that begs the question, "What tires did you drive to Portland with?" If the contemporary, how pray tell did you transport wife, luggage and a set of tires?

With thoughts of taking in the autox, I mounted a set of new 195/55's on the Mahle's. Before we left for the Parade. Got dinged in the Concours and wound up not running the autox afterall. Expensive way to go, having unmounted and remounted tires.

I put 165HR XAS's on the Mahle's for the San Diego Parade.

Now I have the correct XAS's on the show Mahle's, a set of 195/55's on the 14" Fuchs, a set of 195/55's ready to mount on a second set of Mahle's I picked up.

With the limited number of miles I drive, they will all likely rot long before I wear them out.

I'd interested in hearing anyone's opinion on how best to store tires of the vehicle.

Jasfsmith

Feb 26 2009, 09:58 AM

QUOTE(carreraguy @ Feb 25 2009, 05:43 PM)

Seeing this discussion re: Coker tires reminds me that I still have five stock 4.5 inch steel wheels from my '76 (sold with Yoko ES100s) which were refinished by Harvey Weidman with period correct like-new (less than 50 miles) 165/85 Michelin XZX Coker tires. I offered them up on the World for sale section a few years ago but no one was interested. Anyone interested, PM me.
Later,

Sounds to me like Jim Chambers will be contacting you soon for the tires.

Pat Garvey

Feb 27 2009, 07:31 PM

QUOTE(slackin' at work @ Feb 24 2009, 10:03 PM)

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 24 2009, 09:06 PM)

...And sold.

DIBS!
no need to repaint or rebuild... I'll take it as-is.

seriously.

May want to wait until you see the damage. It will be UGLY. The trip will be no holds barred. Gravel roads? Yep, even if not neceassry. Chips, chunks & other nasty things will be taken as they arrive.

Tslk to me in 3 1/2 years! Then, we'll see how eager you are.
Pat

Pat Garvey

Feb 27 2009, 07:36 PM

QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Feb 25 2009, 03:53 PM)

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 24 2009, 06:06 PM)

When I hit 65...
This trip will be my last venture into 914's. I'll be too old to really make an effort after that. Yes, I will retire from the 914 World.

But that's 3 years away.

Pat

Yo Pat, Life does not end at 65 bro...no reason to give something up that you have enjoyed all your life just because you make a certain age...

At 65 grow a pony tail, start wearing flip flops and hawaiian shirts - year round...take up surfing or...Have you seen the recent movie 'bucket list'? You are our role model and inspiration! We look to you for...the exemplary 914 lifestyle..

Jeff, I'd like to be a male prostitute, but my "six pack" is now a "flab pack". I'd like to do a lot of things, and some of them I'm giving serious thought to. But I think I'm close to running my 914 course! I mean, 37 years is a long time to give to ONE car. Not that I'm compaining, just....maybe it's time to find a new venue.

Maybe.

tod914

Feb 27 2009, 08:14 PM

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

Pat Garvey

Feb 28 2009, 07:20 PM

QUOTE(tod914 @ Feb 27 2009, 09:14 PM)

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

Tod,

Thanks, but Yugo get one first!

Pat

Tom_T

Apr 3 2009, 04:38 PM

EDITED - DELETE

Pat Garvey

Apr 3 2009, 05:25 PM

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Apr 3 2009, 04:38 PM)

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 28 2009, 06:20 PM)

QUOTE(tod914 @ Feb 27 2009, 09:14 PM)

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

Tod,

Thanks, but Yugo get one first!

Pat

Pat ....how about some questions about what makes the wheels stop??
...or is there a specific post on brake systems somewhere here?

I'm trying to collect the parts necessary to get my `73 2L back on the road after being dry stored in my SoCal garage since 5/85 (+/- 24 years!) - both Mech & Body, and my preference is to stay OEM/OES or close to stock.

So I want to post questions on various systems, components & parts here - IF this is the appropriate place, or should I look to other areas on this bbs???
Please let me know if not &/or where I might get more & better responses to a particular topic.

That said, I'm looking at brake stuff this week. - for STREET driving use, without any...

A few Brake System Questions, so I can take advantage of Performance Products 15% off sale this week:

1.) First & Foremost - are Performance Products prices typically good competitive pricing??
....& are their weekly specials & discounts are worth jumping at?

...or can I do better just shopping around?

Dr. 914 - George - feel free to weigh in on your Auto Atlanta stock!

2.) Brake Pads - OEM or ???? by whom? - STREET use
> which for improved braking?
> which for best life?
> which for least "squeal"?
> which don't have asbestos? (a no-no in CA & PBR has it!)
> ratings for: ATE, Jurid, Textar, Pagid, Mintex, Hawk, PBR, others?

3.) Stainless vs OEM Rubber Brake Lines?
> worth the extra price?
> longer life? ...if so, how much longer lasting?
> what is "shelf life" for each in terms of rubber/teflon/silicone?
...I hope to get them installed in `09, but it might be next year, what with all of the other stuff to be done!
> whose are best? ...Weltmeister? ...others?

4.) Master Cylinders - 914-4's 17mm -or- 914-6's 19mm?? (OEM only)
> 19mm are straight bolt-in substitute - correct?
> any steel lines, connectors or anything else need to be changed with 19mm?
> how much improvement 17 > 19mm? ....& for $45 less @ 19mm!
> any issues, concerns & problems in using 19mm?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> any external rubber lines/parts to also replace on MC's? ...any available in SS?
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current MC which has sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)

5.) Brake Fluids --
> Porsche OEM vs. which others? - for STREET use
> How much do I need for complete change-over & bleeding? - # of oz. or ml & # of cans/bottles?
> what is "shelf life" if left un-opened until rebuild? - +/- 09/2010?

6.) Disk Calipers -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> new vs remanufactured vs "rebuilt"
> are OEM &/or OES now NLA? ...or if still available - where?? Front? & Rear?
> best mfgr source(s) for OEM Re-mans?
> what & where are the retail sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current Calipers which have sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)
> best caliper rebuild kits & mfgrs? ...& is the shelf life of the rubber parts 2009-2010 or more?

7.) 914 Proportioning Valves -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> are OEM &/or OES still available? ...&/or OEM/OES Remans?
> any better alternative p.valves to elim. "spongy pedal"?
> how are the adjustable ones (like JWest)?? ...& how ahrd to adjust to get right for STREET use??
...or are they more of a pain in the A than they're worth????
> what & where are the sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
> I'm not interested in replacing it with a "Tee", cuz it serves the function to prevent real lock-up & resulting spin-out or swapping back-to-front when you have to brake hard!!

Any other Brake System Tips?

Note that I'll hold off on buying anything without a "safe" shelf life thru 2010, until the actual time I'll be doing the brake system - sale or not! ... just to avoid those

moments!

I've also got the post on researching my 914 where you've replied before - & where I also posted this (but the replies are slow in coming), so I'll try it here too. My other post is at:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=93838&st=0

Thanx in advance guys & gals!
Tom
///////

Tom,

First, welcome to the mayhem!

Second, you ask a LOT of questions! We like that, though it will take some time to muddle through them. This thread is as good as any other, since it's related.

So.... first I'll wiegh in on something you haven't posed - calipers!

Your 914, since it's been sitting for so long, is most probably going to need the calipers rebuilt before anything else. Unless you are a major wrench, I'd get in contact with Eric Shea for rebuilds. His are the best for funtionality & presence.
Pat

Tom_T

Apr 3 2009, 07:03 PM

EDITED - DELETE

Pat Garvey

Apr 3 2009, 07:29 PM

[quote name='Tom_T' date='Apr 3 2009, 07:03 PM' post='1153754']
[quote name='Pat Garvey' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:25 PM' post='1153730']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1153701' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:38 PM']
[quote name='Pat Garvey' post='1139644' date='Feb 28 2009, 06:20 PM']
[quote name='tod914' post='1139265' date='Feb 27 2009, 09:14 PM']

6.) Disk Calipers -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> new vs remanufactured vs "rebuilt"
> are OEM &/or OES now NLA? ...or if still available - where?? Front? & Rear?
> best mfgr source(s) for OEM Re-mans?
> what & where are the retail sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current Calipers which have sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)
> best caliper rebuild kits & mfgrs? ...& is the shelf life of the rubber parts 2009-2010 or more?

Thanx in advance guys & gals!
Tom
///////
[/quote]
Tom,

First, welcome to the mayhem!

Second, you ask a LOT of questions! We like that, though it will take some time to muddle through them. This thread is as good as any other, since it's related.

So.... first I'll wiegh in on something you haven't posed - calipers!

Your 914, since it's been sitting for so long, is most probably going to need the calipers rebuilt before anything else. Unless you are a major wrench, I'd get in contact with Eric Shea for rebuilds. His are the best for funtionality & presence.
Pat
[/quote]

Thanx for the welcome, but...

Yeah I did list calipers, see the clipped down quote above #6.

I just located some rebuilt/reman. L&R front calipers at Perf. Products (supposed to be OEM rebuilds) - if theirs are any good? - ...your opinion??
They had no rear caliper remans. though!

I got the rear rebuild kits just in case, but they're useless if innards are frozen/rusted/pitted! I also got the 19mm MC, 930 tie-rods, balls & bushings, CV boots & other stuff to tie-up their 15% discount (ends 4/4), & will return anything that I don't want. Aslo got 15% off the rear bumper rubber top new, since I bought so much stuff. Would've gotten the front rubber top & "tits" too - if they weren't NLA & other rubber parts if we hadn't run out of time
....geez - that was a "spensive" order!!!!

Where is your guy located? ...I'm in Orange CA (SoCal) ...do you have his contact info?
I'm assuming that he's in the Philly area, since you're near there?

Does he have rear calipers? ...& do I need my old ones for a "core"? ...or do you send him your own calipers to him to rebuild them?

Any other good caliper rebuilders or sources you know of closer to me on the west coast?

Keep in mind that this 914 has it's front & rear ends pushed in - so it's never going to be a "concours" car, but I liked the way it drove before & would like to keep it "true to form" without filing bankruptcy!

Thanx!
Tom

PS - Having been born back there at the other oft forgotten end of the state (PA), my condolences on your Eagles!

...of course my Steelers

///////
[/quote]
Tom, Sorry, missed it.

You should contact Eric at PMB Performance, http://www.pmbperformance.com.
Pat

Eric is based in Sandy, Utah - that's close enough for the best.

Eagles crap out very year - I'm used to it!

Pat Garvey

Apr 3 2009, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Apr 3 2009, 04:38 PM)

QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Feb 28 2009, 06:20 PM)

QUOTE(tod914 @ Feb 27 2009, 09:14 PM)

Yugo's haven't fully reached their due status Pat. Maybe be a trend setter and get one of those.

Tod,

Thanks, but Yugo get one first!

Pat

Pat ....how about some questions about what makes the wheels stop??
...or is there a specific post on brake systems somewhere here?

I'm trying to collect the parts necessary to get my `73 2L back on the road after being dry stored in my SoCal garage since 5/85 (+/- 24 years!) - both Mech & Body, and my preference is to stay OEM/OES or close to stock.

So I want to post questions on various systems, components & parts here - IF this is the appropriate place, or should I look to other areas on this bbs???
Please let me know if not &/or where I might get more & better responses to a particular topic.

That said, I'm looking at brake stuff this week. - for STREET driving use, without any...

A few Brake System Questions, so I can take advantage of Performance Products 15% off sale this week:

1.) First & Foremost - are Performance Products prices typically good competitive pricing??
....& are their weekly specials & discounts are worth jumping at?

...or can I do better just shopping around?

Dr. 914 - George - feel free to weigh in on your Auto Atlanta stock!

2.) Brake Pads - OEM or ???? by whom? - STREET use
> which for improved braking?
> which for best life?
> which for least "squeal"?
> which don't have asbestos? (a no-no in CA & PBR has it!)
> ratings for: ATE, Jurid, Textar, Pagid, Mintex, Hawk, PBR, others?

3.) Stainless vs OEM Rubber Brake Lines?
> worth the extra price?
> longer life? ...if so, how much longer lasting?
> what is "shelf life" for each in terms of rubber/teflon/silicone?
...I hope to get them installed in `09, but it might be next year, what with all of the other stuff to be done!
> whose are best? ...Weltmeister? ...others?

4.) Master Cylinders - 914-4's 17mm -or- 914-6's 19mm?? (OEM only)
> 19mm are straight bolt-in substitute - correct?
> any steel lines, connectors or anything else need to be changed with 19mm?
> how much improvement 17 > 19mm? ....& for $45 less @ 19mm!
> any issues, concerns & problems in using 19mm?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> any external rubber lines/parts to also replace on MC's? ...any available in SS?
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current MC which has sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)

5.) Brake Fluids --
> Porsche OEM vs. which others? - for STREET use
> How much do I need for complete change-over & bleeding? - # of oz. or ml & # of cans/bottles?
> what is "shelf life" if left un-opened until rebuild? - +/- 09/2010?

6.) Disk Calipers -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> new vs remanufactured vs "rebuilt"
> are OEM &/or OES now NLA? ...or if still available - where?? Front? & Rear?
> best mfgr source(s) for OEM Re-mans?
> what & where are the retail sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current Calipers which have sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)
> best caliper rebuild kits & mfgrs? ...& is the shelf life of the rubber parts 2009-2010 or more?

7.) 914 Proportioning Valves -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> are OEM &/or OES still available? ...&/or OEM/OES Remans?
> any better alternative p.valves to elim. "spongy pedal"?
> how are the adjustable ones (like JWest)?? ...& how ahrd to adjust to get right for STREET use??
...or are they more of a pain in the A than they're worth????
> what & where are the sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
> I'm not interested in replacing it with a "Tee", cuz it serves the function to prevent real lock-up & resulting spin-out or swapping back-to-front when you have to brake hard!!

Any other Brake System Tips?

Note that I'll hold off on buying anything without a "safe" shelf life thru 2010, until the actual time I'll be doing the brake system - sale or not! ... just to avoid those

moments!

I've also got the post on researching my 914 where you've replied before - & where I also posted this (but the replies are slow in coming), so I'll try it here too. My other post is at:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=93838&st=0

Thanx in advance guys & gals!
Tom
///////

Now, with the caliper thing aside, I can/will only impart on things I have some/slight knowledge of, by the numbers:
2.) I still use asbestos pads. Stocked up on the in the late 70's because they make no mess & stop the car. Figure I'm the only one left using them, so I'm not going to kill too many people. They work great!

3.) Stick with rubber. Work fine - last years-pedal prssure better.

4.) Go with 19mm. Learned this by mistake, but it works perfectly for a street 914. Way over discussed.

5.) You can't overuse brake fluid for the street, if you change it every 2 years. Use DOT 3 or 4 for street, but any fluid will absorb enough moisture in 2 years to need replacement.

7.) In 37 years of owning the same 914, I've never experienced a problem here, even during years of hard auto-x usage. Leave it alone.

My opinons on the above topics only - YMMV. Just trying to help.
Pat

Tom_T

Apr 3 2009, 08:32 PM

EDITED - DELETE