I'm sure this seems like a snails pace compared to a lot of projects out there. Been out of work for two months now so I've been focusing efforts there. I have managed to get the engine wiring harness all checked out and modified. Once its wrapped, the injectors & fuel rails go on - then its time for the intake manifold.
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Full Version: 3D914s 914-6 SHO 3.2L v6
Gerard, keep a keen eye on that oil pan, it seems like it will be a sure candidate for asphalt injections. I think you can build a suitable m/mount to take care of that.
Marty
Marty
Marty,
Yeh - that things deep, but it won't sit any lower than 1/2" below the bottom of the fire wall.
Well I set aside the fear and decided to cut into the perfectly good body panel just behind the right-side door. It was the only way I could come up with to get good access to the "hell hole" and jack receiver plate.
As you can see, those receivers are great for trapping water and causing rust. This side will get some new metal - maybe two panels worth.
Click to view attachment
The left side still has the panel removed from all the body putty I cut out of there. All I needed to do was cut a clean edge and find a piece to replace it when I'm done with the jack receiver.
Click to view attachment
I also spent some time, with my wife's help, checking all the body measurements. Everything checked out very good - worse difference was within 1/8". Not bad for these cars. I was especially concerned since it looks like someone drover this car over a bunch of parking curbs. Nothing that can't be popped out - but at least the body is straight.
Now back to the engine for a day or so.
Yeh - that things deep, but it won't sit any lower than 1/2" below the bottom of the fire wall.
Well I set aside the fear and decided to cut into the perfectly good body panel just behind the right-side door. It was the only way I could come up with to get good access to the "hell hole" and jack receiver plate.
As you can see, those receivers are great for trapping water and causing rust. This side will get some new metal - maybe two panels worth.
Click to view attachment
The left side still has the panel removed from all the body putty I cut out of there. All I needed to do was cut a clean edge and find a piece to replace it when I'm done with the jack receiver.
Click to view attachment
I also spent some time, with my wife's help, checking all the body measurements. Everything checked out very good - worse difference was within 1/8". Not bad for these cars. I was especially concerned since it looks like someone drover this car over a bunch of parking curbs. Nothing that can't be popped out - but at least the body is straight.
Now back to the engine for a day or so.
Gerard,
Looking good!
Is the driver side cut open to where you can get more pictures?
See my thread about pics request of the 1/4s...
Looking good!
Is the driver side cut open to where you can get more pictures?
See my thread about pics request of the 1/4s...
I've started digging more into the outer longitudinal at the jack point. It seems there were some previous residents making their home here.
Click to view attachment
Once I finish cutting out the top of the shelf below the battery tray, I should be able to get a clearer look into the long. It appears as though there are two layers of metal, and I don't want to cut through both at the same time. I'd like to stagger the cuts and the welds.
Dang - need a new cutting disk.
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Once I finish cutting out the top of the shelf below the battery tray, I should be able to get a clearer look into the long. It appears as though there are two layers of metal, and I don't want to cut through both at the same time. I'd like to stagger the cuts and the welds.
Dang - need a new cutting disk.
Don't want to run out yet to get a cutting disk, so I'm planning the cuts I need for the firewall between cockpit and engine bay.
Click to view attachment
The raised middle section is what I need to widen by 8 inches (4" each side). I already have a replacement 8" wide section for the center, with all the necessary radiuses. So the plan is to work from the existing center and move each side 4" out.
THe outer-most black line is the cut line for the new edge. The area between it and the second line is what will be removed. Then from the second line to the centerline will get shifted over to the new edge. They'll be another cut in the section to be moved to allow the rotation needed.
I've also decided it would be better not to cut into the larger of the three reinforcing channels on each side. This means I'll have to due some angular blending between the two pieces. This should be much easier than trying to form all the radiuses.
Click to view attachment
The raised middle section is what I need to widen by 8 inches (4" each side). I already have a replacement 8" wide section for the center, with all the necessary radiuses. So the plan is to work from the existing center and move each side 4" out.
THe outer-most black line is the cut line for the new edge. The area between it and the second line is what will be removed. Then from the second line to the centerline will get shifted over to the new edge. They'll be another cut in the section to be moved to allow the rotation needed.
I've also decided it would be better not to cut into the larger of the three reinforcing channels on each side. This means I'll have to due some angular blending between the two pieces. This should be much easier than trying to form all the radiuses.
OK, scratch out those lines.
I drove over to the garage where my engine's at to update my dimensions - and a good thing I did. I did not include the pulleys for the various accessories because they were located low enough and wouldn't interfere with the firewall - all but one. The alternator pulley will just interfere with the firewall by 1/2 inch or so.
So now instead of adding 8" I'll have to add 10". That will put the pulley in the deeper portion of the firewall with an inch or more of clearance.
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I drove over to the garage where my engine's at to update my dimensions - and a good thing I did. I did not include the pulleys for the various accessories because they were located low enough and wouldn't interfere with the firewall - all but one. The alternator pulley will just interfere with the firewall by 1/2 inch or so.
So now instead of adding 8" I'll have to add 10". That will put the pulley in the deeper portion of the firewall with an inch or more of clearance.
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Worked on the engine this weekend to finish up the fuel rails, injectors, and fuel lines that connect to the rails. Didn't have my camera so I'll get a pic before I install the intake early next week.
Did get to spend some time last week cutting out the remaining rust areas around the hell-hole - with the exception of the long. I'm going to wait to finish the long until I've patched the other panels. Hopefully this will minimize the amount of weakness in this area.
I removed the upper panel above the inner long on the engine bay, a section of the inner fender above the long, and a corner section of the lower firewall.
Upper panel:
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Inner fender section:
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Lower firewall corner:
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Here are the replacement pieces I cut and bent using my vise, a piece of 2x4 and a 2lb hammer. The bottom piece shown is to reinforce the wide part of the inner long. The long has holes from drilling out all the spot welds in the upper panel, so I'll place the reinforcement panel underneath the long and use the holes for welding it in place. It may not be necessary, but it's easier to do while everything's open - and I can be sure I've retained sufficient strength in that part of the long.
Click to view attachment
I removed the upper panel above the inner long on the engine bay, a section of the inner fender above the long, and a corner section of the lower firewall.
Upper panel:
Click to view attachment
Inner fender section:
Click to view attachment
Lower firewall corner:
Click to view attachment
Here are the replacement pieces I cut and bent using my vise, a piece of 2x4 and a 2lb hammer. The bottom piece shown is to reinforce the wide part of the inner long. The long has holes from drilling out all the spot welds in the upper panel, so I'll place the reinforcement panel underneath the long and use the holes for welding it in place. It may not be necessary, but it's easier to do while everything's open - and I can be sure I've retained sufficient strength in that part of the long.
Click to view attachment
For reference I wanted to show how the longitudinal looks from this side. The inner long is two separate pieces with a big gap at the top, and a smaller gap at the bottom.
The upper panel (or shelf) sits slightly above the inner long until it gets close to the inner curved edge. The welds from the battery tray went all the way through the shelf and into the inner long.
I started removing the shelf by drilling out the spot welds that connect it to the inner fender. You can see the string of holes in the picture. I did likewise with the welds along the top face of the shelf - drilling through it and the inner long. I used my Dremel cutter to carefully cut the limits of the shelf - trying not to go all the way through. I succeeded at the upper end, but cut slightly into the inner long near the lower end - hence the reason for some additional support.
I then slowly pulled the upper shelf off - pulling toward the engine bay. I had to cut it length wise a couple of times as I exposed more welds I couldn't see from the surface. Its important to drill these welds out because pulling will just rip the inner long - and thats the load-bearing portion we want to keep in tact and in good shape.
Once I got the shelf out to the radius edge I was able to cut it with my 3" cutting wheel and get a decent edge. I then pounded that edge back down onto the inner long. It will be used as the mating edge for the new piece.
Click to view attachment
You'll notice that the engine shelf is missing. It was rusted in spots and needed to be removed anyway to get better access. It could go back on, but since I'm doing the SHO V6, I won't bother. The front and left engine shelf will get removed also just to clean things up and provide some more room.
The upper panel (or shelf) sits slightly above the inner long until it gets close to the inner curved edge. The welds from the battery tray went all the way through the shelf and into the inner long.
I started removing the shelf by drilling out the spot welds that connect it to the inner fender. You can see the string of holes in the picture. I did likewise with the welds along the top face of the shelf - drilling through it and the inner long. I used my Dremel cutter to carefully cut the limits of the shelf - trying not to go all the way through. I succeeded at the upper end, but cut slightly into the inner long near the lower end - hence the reason for some additional support.
I then slowly pulled the upper shelf off - pulling toward the engine bay. I had to cut it length wise a couple of times as I exposed more welds I couldn't see from the surface. Its important to drill these welds out because pulling will just rip the inner long - and thats the load-bearing portion we want to keep in tact and in good shape.
Once I got the shelf out to the radius edge I was able to cut it with my 3" cutting wheel and get a decent edge. I then pounded that edge back down onto the inner long. It will be used as the mating edge for the new piece.
Click to view attachment
You'll notice that the engine shelf is missing. It was rusted in spots and needed to be removed anyway to get better access. It could go back on, but since I'm doing the SHO V6, I won't bother. The front and left engine shelf will get removed also just to clean things up and provide some more room.
I've managed to squeeze in some time to get the engine in its semi-final form. Purty eh?
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With the engine harness and intake manifold on, the remaining items are minor in comparison. However, with a pending move to southern Arizona in the next six weeks, its not likely that I will get much more done until after that.
As a reminder, here are a few things left to prepare for the bench run.
The engine cradle will be another piece of work, as its going to serve a dual role. It will function as the rolling cradle for the engine, transaxle, and exhaust during the bench test. It will also serve as a lifting aid to install the engine/transaxle assembly into the car, but more on that later.
I hope to get the welding done on the panels above and the rusted longitudinal repaired before the move.
Click to view attachment
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With the engine harness and intake manifold on, the remaining items are minor in comparison. However, with a pending move to southern Arizona in the next six weeks, its not likely that I will get much more done until after that.
As a reminder, here are a few things left to prepare for the bench run.
- Rebuild A/C compressor and mount it.
- Complete main harness and test it.
- Locate and install used exhaust system (only used for bench test)
- Fabricate engine/transaxle cradle.
The engine cradle will be another piece of work, as its going to serve a dual role. It will function as the rolling cradle for the engine, transaxle, and exhaust during the bench test. It will also serve as a lifting aid to install the engine/transaxle assembly into the car, but more on that later.
I hope to get the welding done on the panels above and the rusted longitudinal repaired before the move.
QUOTE(3d914 @ May 3 2009, 11:23 PM) 
I've managed to squeeze in some time to get the engine in its semi-final form. Purty eh?
Looks great! (Except for the FRAM filter) Pick up a Baldwin oil filter from Grainger!
Just a quick update. The car is sitting, covered, outside the garage for the moment. I relocated to Benson, AZ back in May starting a new job, bought a new house in September and am still settling in.
On top of that the 924S is down for some new rings, so it will be a while before I get back to the teener.
ENjoy!
On top of that the 924S is down for some new rings, so it will be a while before I get back to the teener.
ENjoy!
We need an update! 
No 
That is one of THE nicest engines on the planet. Would love to see a teener tooling around with one of those in there.
That is one of THE nicest engines on the planet. Would love to see a teener tooling around with one of those in there.
Just an update. Finally got the garage free from kid's cars (924S & 914) and rolled the project 914 in. With the rainy season down on us, I was glad to get it out from under the tarp and into the dry garage. Still haven't started back on it, as I have to get my cabinets built so that I can work in my garage.
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For anyone looking for a similar project, I came up with a very efficient cabinet design - which minimizes materials & maximizes storage space. Since this is related to the project - and it's the only thing I'm working on right now - I'll divert and share the design & progress.
Click to view attachment
For anyone looking for a similar project, I came up with a very efficient cabinet design - which minimizes materials & maximizes storage space. Since this is related to the project - and it's the only thing I'm working on right now - I'll divert and share the design & progress.
Along the west side of my garage I have nearly 24 feet of wall space, and have already designed some built-in cabinets. These cabinets start one foot above the floor and extend 9-1/2 feet to the ceiling. The upper most sections will be open without doors to use for body parts like bumpers and exhaust pieces. They're 24 inches deep, so they provide a lot of storage area.
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I left two sections at the ends open to the floor to allow storage of vertical items and some hand tools. These two sections and the center (open section) will get peg-board that will be used as a mounting medium for various hangers.
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I'm quite pleased with the design, as my goal was to provide a maximum of storage space at a more reasonable cost compared to cabinet components sold at the local home improvement stores. They build sectional units that you connect together. The drawback is all the duplicate side-walls and backs you end up with.
I eliminate all that by building then right onto the back & side walls of the garage. I begin with 2x4 stringers, screwed to the wall studs, and run horizontally at the bottom, middle, and top of the cabinets. End panels are fastened to the side walls at the studs, and are notched for the stringers. These end panels, together with the stringers, support the cabinet frame. To provide additional support, metal legs are added at the front of the cabinets and extend to the floor to alleviate side loads on the back wall.
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At this point everything is primed and ready for paint. The unpainted portion of the stringers doesn't get primer since I'll be gluing and fastening the faces to the framework. I've also taped those mating surfaces in preparation for paint.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
I left two sections at the ends open to the floor to allow storage of vertical items and some hand tools. These two sections and the center (open section) will get peg-board that will be used as a mounting medium for various hangers.
Click to view attachment
I'm quite pleased with the design, as my goal was to provide a maximum of storage space at a more reasonable cost compared to cabinet components sold at the local home improvement stores. They build sectional units that you connect together. The drawback is all the duplicate side-walls and backs you end up with.
I eliminate all that by building then right onto the back & side walls of the garage. I begin with 2x4 stringers, screwed to the wall studs, and run horizontally at the bottom, middle, and top of the cabinets. End panels are fastened to the side walls at the studs, and are notched for the stringers. These end panels, together with the stringers, support the cabinet frame. To provide additional support, metal legs are added at the front of the cabinets and extend to the floor to alleviate side loads on the back wall.
Click to view attachment
At this point everything is primed and ready for paint. The unpainted portion of the stringers doesn't get primer since I'll be gluing and fastening the faces to the framework. I've also taped those mating surfaces in preparation for paint.
Click to view attachment
Well I've made decent progress on the cabinets - which should make it easier to get to the 914. Cabinets aren't done, but at least everything is off the floor and I have room for both cars again. Just in time to get side-tracked for a couple of weeks to put up a fence.
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Hey, but at least the 914 is in the garage and in the right spot. I know - it needs to be up on jack stands. Be patient, I'm getting there.
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Click to view attachment
Hey, but at least the 914 is in the garage and in the right spot. I know - it needs to be up on jack stands. Be patient, I'm getting there.
Click to view attachment
Started back to work on the 914 removing parts, cleaning the parts I'll keep and putting away on shelves. I removed the remaining roll-bar trim and windshield inner trim and rubber. No surprises here.
Also went around the doors and decided to investigate a peculiar behavior. If I close either door till I hear the "clunk" all is fine and the outer surface of the door lines up nicely with the outer surface of the rear quarter panel. (I'll call this position one)
If I push the door a little more it continues to close further and I end up with a very ugly gap between the door and quarter panel. (I'll call this position two)
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When I inspected the door latch I noticed that at initial closure the locking cam lines up almost vertically. I associate this with position one.
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Yet I'm able to rotate it further, which I associate with position two.
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I haven't taken the mechanism apart yet, but can the internal stop for the locking cam wear that much, or is there something else I'm not seeing?
Also went around the doors and decided to investigate a peculiar behavior. If I close either door till I hear the "clunk" all is fine and the outer surface of the door lines up nicely with the outer surface of the rear quarter panel. (I'll call this position one)
If I push the door a little more it continues to close further and I end up with a very ugly gap between the door and quarter panel. (I'll call this position two)
Click to view attachment
When I inspected the door latch I noticed that at initial closure the locking cam lines up almost vertically. I associate this with position one.
Click to view attachment
Yet I'm able to rotate it further, which I associate with position two.
Click to view attachment
I haven't taken the mechanism apart yet, but can the internal stop for the locking cam wear that much, or is there something else I'm not seeing?
Adjust the position of the strike on the door jam. Door latch looks fine.
Mike, is there that much adjustment in the plate?
Hi Gerard!
Good to see progress on this project!
Good to see progress on this project!
Hey Bryan,
Looks like you've been about as scarce as I've been. What's new?
Looks like you've been about as scarce as I've been. What's new?
Well a not so unexpected Surprise today 
I thought I would remove at least the floor pan rubber under the seats since I'm fabbing new mounts for 944 seats; only to find . . .
Click to view attachment
Bummer
Appears to only be surface rust, but now I'll have to remove all of it to make sure I don't have any through holes.
I thought I would remove at least the floor pan rubber under the seats since I'm fabbing new mounts for 944 seats; only to find . . .
Click to view attachment
Bummer
Appears to only be surface rust, but now I'll have to remove all of it to make sure I don't have any through holes.
Also worked on the door jam today. I removed the strike plate and there doesn't appear to be any movement possible for the mounting screws of the plate or for the strike.
Mike was your thought that I make my own adjustment, or should there be some factory adjustment there?
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Mike was your thought that I make my own adjustment, or should there be some factory adjustment there?
Click to view attachment
A couple things, from a SHO owner standpoint.
1. Are you using the 3.2 or the 3.0 oil pan? They are shaped differently, and the 3.0 pan may give you more clearance.
2. You do know that the intake can go on either way, right? One way might work easier for plumbing than the other.
3. Please stop calling it a Ford engine. It is a work of art made by Yamaha and installed into a Ford vehicle...
Keep it coming, it looks good so far!
1. Are you using the 3.2 or the 3.0 oil pan? They are shaped differently, and the 3.0 pan may give you more clearance.
2. You do know that the intake can go on either way, right? One way might work easier for plumbing than the other.
3. Please stop calling it a Ford engine. It is a work of art made by Yamaha and installed into a Ford vehicle...
Keep it coming, it looks good so far!
QUOTE(3d914 @ Sep 24 2011, 05:26 PM)
Well a not so unexpected Surprise today
I thought I would remove at least the floor pan rubber under the seats since I'm fabbing new mounts for 944 seats; only to find . . .
Click to view attachment
Bummer
Appears to only be surface rust, but now I'll have to remove all of it to make sure I don't have any through holes.
Thats not rust. That's a slight discoloration.
QUOTE(swl @ Sep 25 2011, 06:29 AM)
QUOTE(3d914 @ Sep 24 2011, 05:26 PM)
Well a not so unexpected Surprise today
I thought I would remove at least the floor pan rubber under the seats since I'm fabbing new mounts for 944 seats; only to find . . .
Click to view attachment
Bummer
Appears to only be surface rust, but now I'll have to remove all of it to make sure I don't have any through holes.
Thats not rust. That's a slight discoloration.
I have seen a lot worse.
Well, let me pull off some more floor pan rubber and we just might!
Got the door latch plate figured out - speaking of rust - it appears that the receiver plate on the drivers side is rusted to the sheet metal and not moving as it should. I'll drill out the spot weld and remove it and see how it looks.
Kevin, its the 3.2 block and pan. No gains from intake shifting since I'm going longitudinal install. And I like the feathers it ruffles when I call it a Ford engine.
Got the door latch plate figured out - speaking of rust - it appears that the receiver plate on the drivers side is rusted to the sheet metal and not moving as it should. I'll drill out the spot weld and remove it and see how it looks.
Kevin, its the 3.2 block and pan. No gains from intake shifting since I'm going longitudinal install. And I like the feathers it ruffles when I call it a Ford engine.
I've been considering my install options for the radiator. The stock SHO radiator will fit with no problems, and I can mount in the front trunk of the 914 as do the subi & V8 guys. However, the main draw-back is routing the coolant hoses back to the engine (behind the driver) and venting the heated air out of the front trunk. I really don't like hacking big sections out the wheel wells to vent air. Better, but still not ideal, is venting through the hood.
As an alternative I've been considering a couple different paths:
Option 1 would require an air inlet vent on each side, fabbed out of fiberglass, with metal or FG housing to direct the air into the radiators. The third radiator would simply draw air from the engine bay & under the car and vent back out the rear. The side vents would add a certain "coolness" factor since the car has flares.
Here's some sample radiators.
Click to view attachment
Option 2 would be the most stealthy. I know guys who have mounted oil coolers this size with fans, so I'm reasonably confident this could work. Another option on the location would be up next to the firewall, but laying almost flat - drawing air up from underneath the car and venting up.
Larger one.
Click to view attachment
Thoughts?
As an alternative I've been considering a couple different paths:
- Mount two 8"x18" radiators in the fender wells, and a third under the rear trunk on the drivers side.
- Mount two larger 11"x20" under the trunk on both sides.
Option 1 would require an air inlet vent on each side, fabbed out of fiberglass, with metal or FG housing to direct the air into the radiators. The third radiator would simply draw air from the engine bay & under the car and vent back out the rear. The side vents would add a certain "coolness" factor since the car has flares.
Here's some sample radiators.
Click to view attachment
Option 2 would be the most stealthy. I know guys who have mounted oil coolers this size with fans, so I'm reasonably confident this could work. Another option on the location would be up next to the firewall, but laying almost flat - drawing air up from underneath the car and venting up.
Larger one.
Click to view attachment
Thoughts?
I would like to see a cooling system work in the rear. I would love to have a front trunk!
Whats the volume of the stock radiator? Whats the volume of each small radiator?
Here is what I would do.
Start with the radiator that lays flat and then warm up the car and let it idle on the street mid day. Watch the temp. If normal operating temp is 190 and 225 is overheating see if it goes over 200. If not then take the car on the road and see if it can keep it cool at speed (since you dont have any air being forced through the radiator).
If it doesnt hold its on at speed but its good at idle, add one of the small side radiators in the fender (or both) and then do the same test. The problem is those little radiators dont have much volume. I think you should step your game up and get a couple of honda half radiators. They would cool much better than the tiny piping in the motorcycle radiators.
Here is what I would do.
Start with the radiator that lays flat and then warm up the car and let it idle on the street mid day. Watch the temp. If normal operating temp is 190 and 225 is overheating see if it goes over 200. If not then take the car on the road and see if it can keep it cool at speed (since you dont have any air being forced through the radiator).
If it doesnt hold its on at speed but its good at idle, add one of the small side radiators in the fender (or both) and then do the same test. The problem is those little radiators dont have much volume. I think you should step your game up and get a couple of honda half radiators. They would cool much better than the tiny piping in the motorcycle radiators.
The stock core is single-core/single-pass, and covers 360 in.sq. I would configure the smaller sets to be just over that, say 380+.
I think the rear option - between the engine and side of bay - looks promising. Two half-sized radiators, pulling air up from underneath and venting in the engine bay. Appeals to me more than hacking the front trunk & bumpers.
I think the rear option - between the engine and side of bay - looks promising. Two half-sized radiators, pulling air up from underneath and venting in the engine bay. Appeals to me more than hacking the front trunk & bumpers.
Its not surface area, its volume and surface area, you need to have as much volume and surface area in your system to make it work (Combined with airflow...)
Thats why those motorcycle radiators just wont work. Their inlets are TINY.
Thats why those motorcycle radiators just wont work. Their inlets are TINY.
Andrew - I hear what your saying, but if the core tubing is the same diameter, and covers the equivalent surface area - you are getting the same volume. Agreed the MC radiators probably don't flow the same volume, that's why I somewhat prefer the larger ones for option 2. Also I don't add more body work - adding side scoops.
OK here's my first mockup for the mini-radiators. These are 11x14.38x2" dual-core, with fans mounted on the back side. In this configuration they would mount on the engine bar with a floating frame. This way the engine and radiators would be removed together when dropping the engine out for service.
Click to view attachment
From the side you can see that the exhaust will drop down near the back third of the radiator. The exhaust manifold has heat shields added to it since on the stock config one manifold is less than an inch from the radiator fan.
Click to view attachment
From the back, the radiators will sit just inside the motor mount frame with plenty of clearance for exhaust pipes.
Thoughts?
Click to view attachment
From the side you can see that the exhaust will drop down near the back third of the radiator. The exhaust manifold has heat shields added to it since on the stock config one manifold is less than an inch from the radiator fan.
Click to view attachment
From the back, the radiators will sit just inside the motor mount frame with plenty of clearance for exhaust pipes.
Thoughts?
I think it will work. Heat shields will be mandatory though. There is some neat stuff used by the turbo guys for when their intake is on the same side as their turbo. A very trick insulation.
You'll need to figure something to increase airflow to the radiators at speed. Scoops or something.
You'll need to figure something to increase airflow to the radiators at speed. Scoops or something.
It's going to be tricky to determine if your proposed configuration will realize a pressure differential at speed. No pressure differential and you'll get no flow through the radiators. Fans are ok for standing still or moving very slowly, but it's what happens over 25 or 30 MPH that's key.
Andys
Andys
With all the air flow under the car I would think there would be sufficient - but as you say the trick will be getting it directed to the radiators. The stock air deflectors might be helpful in disrupting the high pressure air underneath and allowing it to be drawn into the engine bay.
Being somewhat close to the firewall, it wouldn't be difficult to construct some custom fg scoop/ducting to enclose them. Again I could drop down at least as far as the stock deflector to scoop air - without worrying about them getting torn up.
I was also thinking about positioning them farther back, just behind the drive shafts & below the trunk. I think this position would be more difficult to direct air directly into though.
Being somewhat close to the firewall, it wouldn't be difficult to construct some custom fg scoop/ducting to enclose them. Again I could drop down at least as far as the stock deflector to scoop air - without worrying about them getting torn up.
I was also thinking about positioning them farther back, just behind the drive shafts & below the trunk. I think this position would be more difficult to direct air directly into though.
QUOTE(3d914 @ Nov 11 2011, 03:30 PM)
With all the air flow under the car I would think there would be sufficient - but as you say the trick will be getting it directed to the radiators. The stock air deflectors might be helpful in disrupting the high pressure air underneath and allowing it to be drawn into the engine bay.
I'm pretty sure with the air deflectors, the pressure would be going the opposite way. The deflectors help drawing air away from the engine compartment, not into it.
Unless you have some scoops under then car, your airflow would have to be reversed. Meaning the fans should suck air from the top through the radiators.
Either way, I'm not sure you'll get enough pressure differential for some good air-flow.
Well I'm confused then. What happens to all the low pressure air flowing underneath the car? It would create a higher pressure shortly after the fire wall without something to continue it to the rear valance.
The air under the car would actually create a low pressure area in the engine compartment due to venturi effect as the air travels to the rear of the car.
Well the whole mid-mounted radiators may be mute point, as I've been working on engine mounting configurations. Here's my first configuration based on the biscuit style mounts. I'm using a 1-1/2" sq tube horizontally across the mount points.There is a 1/4" flange welded in at each end to conform to the surface of the mount. The angled pieces are 1" sq tube up to a 1/4" plate.
Click to view attachment
The bar is installed from the front, after the engine is in position, as the back of the receivers block the bar. I can use this config to improve installation using the rolling engine test stand I'm designing. It will have a set of rigid mounting brackets that approaches from behind the engine bar's position. On the left it will mount to the same points but at the back side. On the right it will mount to two mounting holes that are slightly higher and extended.
I'll think about a couple more possibilities, but I think this looks like it will work best. There is plenty of clearance for the shift rod, and it sits forward of the exhaust headers. The centerline where I positioned the engine turned out to be precisely where the center of the engine bar would be - too cool!
Click to view attachment
The bar is installed from the front, after the engine is in position, as the back of the receivers block the bar. I can use this config to improve installation using the rolling engine test stand I'm designing. It will have a set of rigid mounting brackets that approaches from behind the engine bar's position. On the left it will mount to the same points but at the back side. On the right it will mount to two mounting holes that are slightly higher and extended.
I'll think about a couple more possibilities, but I think this looks like it will work best. There is plenty of clearance for the shift rod, and it sits forward of the exhaust headers. The centerline where I positioned the engine turned out to be precisely where the center of the engine bar would be - too cool!
OK, did some additional thinking and came up with another mounting option that enables me to still work for the rear-mounted mini-radiators, and also enables me to install the engine using an engine cradle design I'm modifying.
Here's what it looks like from the rear. Green is the engine bar with vertical 1/4" plates supported by 1/4" gussets. The dark red is the vertical support bar for the engine cradle, and the orange is the mounting bracket on the engine block. I have the gussets facing inward to allow space for the mini-radiators to the outside.
Click to view attachment
The right side shows four mounting holes. The two upper are spares used for the cradle vertical support bar. The lower two are for the engine bar. The cradle support attaches from the rear, allowing the engine to be move into position and the engine bar installed from the front.
Click to view attachment
The left vertical support for the cradle required a slight 1" sq. extension added to support that side of the engine when the mounting plate is removed (Two thru holes for the vertical support and two for the block with bolts form the outside). Once the cradle's mounting plate is removed the engine bar's plate can be slid into place and bolted up from the inside.
Click to view attachment
Next job is to gather the needed material and start fabbing the engine cradle and engine bar.
Here's what it looks like from the rear. Green is the engine bar with vertical 1/4" plates supported by 1/4" gussets. The dark red is the vertical support bar for the engine cradle, and the orange is the mounting bracket on the engine block. I have the gussets facing inward to allow space for the mini-radiators to the outside.
Click to view attachment
The right side shows four mounting holes. The two upper are spares used for the cradle vertical support bar. The lower two are for the engine bar. The cradle support attaches from the rear, allowing the engine to be move into position and the engine bar installed from the front.
Click to view attachment
The left vertical support for the cradle required a slight 1" sq. extension added to support that side of the engine when the mounting plate is removed (Two thru holes for the vertical support and two for the block with bolts form the outside). Once the cradle's mounting plate is removed the engine bar's plate can be slid into place and bolted up from the inside.
Click to view attachment
Next job is to gather the needed material and start fabbing the engine cradle and engine bar.
With the design of your bar, it looks difficult to drop the engine and tranny without dropping the mounting bar first. That will make it more challenging to fuch with the engine.
Mike, right, but that's intentional. The cradle I've redesigned will be moved into position and connected up before the engine bar is removed. The cradle supports the engine & tranny while the engine bar is removed and the cradle is fastened up. The engine bar exits the from the front of the engine.
The cradle is also designed to fit with my ATV lift. Of course the radiator supports are removed for engine install.
Click to view attachment
Bought the basic cradle design on line from Russ Green.
The cradle is also designed to fit with my ATV lift. Of course the radiator supports are removed for engine install.
Click to view attachment
Bought the basic cradle design on line from Russ Green.
Can the cradle be put in place before the engine bar is removed? If not, how do you hold the motor up ahilw installing the cradle?
Mike, read previous.
Came up with a bracket design for the engine cradle that supports the tranny just behind where it mounts to the adapter plate and motor.
Here's a pic of the brackets on the cradle. I save locating the mounting holes until everything is located at assembly. Portions of the cradle are hidden for clarity.
Click to view attachment
Been getting quotes for steel to fab the cradle and engine bar. Hope to have all the material together and assembly started by end of December.
Here's a pic of the brackets on the cradle. I save locating the mounting holes until everything is located at assembly. Portions of the cradle are hidden for clarity.
Click to view attachment
Been getting quotes for steel to fab the cradle and engine bar. Hope to have all the material together and assembly started by end of December.
Didn't get much done today - the weather turned crappy & cold. Did manage to get my door supports finished.
Had to find these heim joints with big enough thread (5/8-3/4) to fit inside the 1" sq tube without to much slop.
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I tried going thru the 1" square tube first, but it didn't want to swing over where I could weld it to the top of the long. The angle bracket is welded on two sides, and another nut & washer will go on the back side.
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Here's the heim joint end connected to the upper safety belt mount point.
Click to view attachment
Had to find these heim joints with big enough thread (5/8-3/4) to fit inside the 1" sq tube without to much slop.
Click to view attachment
I tried going thru the 1" square tube first, but it didn't want to swing over where I could weld it to the top of the long. The angle bracket is welded on two sides, and another nut & washer will go on the back side.
Click to view attachment
Here's the heim joint end connected to the upper safety belt mount point.
Click to view attachment
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