There is a number serise stamped om the top of the case.....right side, facing the fan, just above & behind the chain housing.....should be 901/XX.....the type number.

That will tell you what the stock motor was...minus any "improvements".

Also, if the cylinders are aluminum.....that's gud.

This project is exciting...but.

Is it worth going to all the trouble and expense for only a 2.0?

Those of you with experience convince me otherwise ( I'll be an easy sell )

What are the performance plus and minus'?
4 vs. 6 - 2.0 vs.2.0 ( 1971cc vs. 1991cc )

I want better acceleration.
I like to a/x, but class and placing isn't really that important to me. Just for fun.

What I really want is a well rounded, fast, excellant handing. Don't we all?

BTW- I like carbs. F.I is cool, too.

J.P.- I had the part # you asked me about but I can't remember it. It not home with me now. Maybe 901/xx/8372? No help I know. Next week.

Congrats on a smooth deal Trekkor!!!

Cases for sixes are that much, still attached to all the stuff that has gone bad. I had a 2.2 in my car (before I let it slip to Mssrs Kravig and Sager that I was dreaming of a 2.7), The 2.2 180 hp engine was an absolute blast... the 2nd most fun it is possible to have in a sitting position! I think it may be in Zois' 356C now.

Good advice about not adding up the receipts in the presence of spouses and spousal equivilents. Mine got real pale when the magic number was revealed. She let me know in that wordless way that they have that I owe her something BIG down the road.

Someone on this board said that 130 hp in one of these cars will make you scream and you'll mess your pants at 250. Absolutemente!!!

IMHO, the ONLY real reason to do a six conversion is resale value. It's harder to sell a big 4 than a six.

Oh course, my opinion of that is

If anyone is building a car to make money they chose the wrong car! We build them to have fun.

In short, sell the six and put that money towards a big 4.

Mark, thanks for the advice. I'm kinda torn here.

No one has said "Hey, bro, I've got a small six and it rocks. It is so much better than that fuel injected 4 I had. I really love the way it winds up and gets me going"

Is that because the small six is garbage?

Who has this motor, and is diggin' it big?

I like the idea Anthony had of putting it in there until a... huh, huh...
really cheap, 3.2 comes my way.

I'm going to run it ASAP on the bench and think a little more. Also listen to the board. Also thought you all might like to know, Brad says "NO. Stay 4 "

BTW, Mark, did you see those carbs...whooo hooo ( sorry )

Maybe I save it for the baja.

no, the ONLY reason to do a /6 conversion is to have FUN with the car!

that's also why you do BIG /4s and V8's and V6 conversions ...

Andy

if it's a more or less stock 2.0L /6 engine, it's NOT any better than the /4 2.0L ...

i think, if you go through all the trouble and $$$ to do a /6 conversion, go and get a low-milage 3.2 or 3.6 and be done with it.
LOTS of HP in stock trim (read: reliable HP).

if you go with a 2.0L /6 you will still throw $10k into the conversion easy and end up with:

A FRIGGIN TWO-LITER ...

which is exactly what you have right now, less 2 cylinders and less $10k out the window ...

just my 0.02 euros,
Andy

Personally, I think it's worth it. I drove an extremely worn original factory 6, it smoked, looked like hell and was generally trashed, but oh, what fun it was to drive. Any 6 is going to be fun to drive. AND sixes have That Sound oh, that wonderful sound. Once you do the hard stuff it's done. So, do it, drive it, enjoy it. If it's not enough power in a couple years you can sell the motor and find a big one. At that point it's plug and play.

do it do it do it

I don't know anyone who's properly done a six conversion and said "gee, I should've just gone with a big four".

PK

it seems the majority of 914 owners is striving to have a six - $1500 is a very good entry level price - the 2.0 ltr is a very solid and strong motor that also sounds great.
You can always sell that motor for what it cost you.
You don't need additional cooling and plumming -other than the oiltank - which makes the installation/conversion less costly and time consuming.
Looks like the whole deal shouldn't go for more than $6000 incl your motor and 5 lug conversion.
Once you have done the basic installation - you can always go for a bigger motor later.
My advice - if you can afford it - go for it and enjoy the ride!

As another original-6 owner (who admittedly, has never driven a 4)... the sound is the thing... My '70 didn't (and won't) have any sound proofing betwixt engine bay and people bay, so if I ran open headers and free flow aircleaners and then the chains themselves added to the din.. (not HP, though...) the drive was heaven... And the responsiveness of the small 6 is something else again.... not too much for the factory suspension and gearbox... but plenty enough for fun....

I'm sold!
Told you it would be easy!

If I don't like it ( is that even posible ) I'll just buy another car and start over with my stored 2.0-4.

I guess somebody would buy my car with all my upgrades for $8-10K

Or have two 914's ( 914-6 baja...Why did I just say that? )

I'll start next week.

I already ordered new plugs, wires and coil.

As for exhaust I'll start with a heatless header. Possibly modify the Tri-Mil Supertrapp I already have into a mid-engine under car instead of the baja tee-pee thing.

This will be fun. Thanks for all the help 914club!

A 2.0/6 from a 914 IS a waste of time....IF you are doing a conversion.....

HOWEVER.....a 2.0/6 "S" motor is 180 peaky HP....which has been.... so far ...... a kick in the ass....

Mike,

what did you do to your S motor to raise it up to 180hp?

brant

That's what an "S" motor is rated at....

Z... did you buy your 2.2 in Frankensteen from Sager/Kravig at the last 914 swap meet? If so, that is probably the one that came out of my car. And yes, it was a peaky, screamy, adrenaline-soaked, ass-grabing-the-seat motor in a 914.

The 2.7 is a different ride. It motors around town feeling like a 2.0 T IV when you feather-foot on the idle jets, then just melts the tires and disapears over 4000 rpm when the mains kick in. Makes me wonder what a built-up 3.8 Euro RS would be like

Mike,

is it an aluminum cased or a 69 mag cased 2.0 S motor? I think the 69's were rated at 180 but the increase was due to the mechanical fuel injection in 69... I thought you were running carbs?

the common thought is the 67 S motors were rated optimistically by the factory at 160hp.... I have a 67S motor going into my vintage car.

just curious because I'd love to learn more and hope that the 160 rating I have is legit...

brant

I bought BOTH motors from Glen Sager.....the 2.0 was an S motor but the specs aid it was the model that came with Webers.

On the 2.2.....did you run a CDI with it? I just got it running and it runs a little rough.....I'm thinking the jetting is off as I have carbs on it from a 2.4.....got any specs or suggestions for jetting?

MSD box. The carbs wound up on my 2.7, after a venturi change to 34 and major jetting work. The cam in my motor is a more for torque that 906-ish peak. Not sure what the jets were on the 2.2 as they came with the motor. The secret is locked up in Kravig's head.

the venturis were 30s, I believe...

Hey, I realize its probably too late, but dont do it. True, a /6 is a great sounding, and even with a 2.0, a reasonably quick car. But, notice how your FI /4 starts right up, even on a cold day? Not so with carbs. And how your FI /4 drives and responds under all conditions? The carb'd /6 will run crummy until its warmed up, and even then never as well as the /4. And thats the best you can hope for. Lotsa luck if the engine and/or carbs aren't happy, or if something has been done to that engine that the carbs dont know about. Or vice versa. Also, expect about 22 mpg vs. 30 for the FI /4. A car that doesn't run well will get old fast.

Not to mention the cost of parts and labor. And emissions testing, if applicable. And how about the quality of the work? Will it look like something that has come from Porsche, or some hack job replete with cheap crap from the local hardware store.

Is your /4 running now? Do you really want to fix it if it ain't broke? Knowing that the time and money spent will not be recouped if sold? Hopefully food for thought.

welcome to the club.

Should we just call you Mr. Happy?

Let me help you out.

I have a small /6. I believe it's basically a stock 2.0. It rocks. I love the feel, I love the sound, I love the Webers breathing behind my head.

I HATE fuel injection. I HATE wires, tubes and vacuum hoses all over the engine compartment. It looks like an Intensive Care Unit setup for a dying motor.

You CAN be happy with a small /6... I am.

-Rusty

you already know the answer to the 'tubes and hoses' problem - MFI ! (and 'E' cams will really wake up a stock /6 engine...)

there is nothing quite like the sound of a short-stroke MFI 6...

(which is not stopping me from looking to uprate the 911 to 2,8 tho ...)

Z - I think you'll certainly want a Bosch CDI or aftermarket (i.e. MSD) with that engine. All of the factory high-performance engines had 'em, IIRC. It should help with the low speed plug fouling and idle to main circuit transition, but don't expect miracles as even with perfectly jetted Webers or MFI these engines are just kinda "bitchy" at lower rpm's and/or when cold.

What jetting do you have now? My carbs were fairly farked up and I set them up to 2.0S specs (except F26 emulsions vs F3); much mo betta now but I may need to bump to 60 idles.

petronix has a new msd box.

Yeah....I spoke with the former owner of the 2.2 that's in Frank....I have six or seven oem Porsche CDI boxes that need some repairs.....my neighbor has the parts at work and I have a copy of the Porsche schematics for the three prong series, so we will rebuild them....also have a fireball ignition system from the Type IV and a Crane type CDI box....will look thru the schematics and see which is the most idiot proof....

More welding this week on the pans....then install the seats, replace the leaking exhaust gaskets and take Frank out for a spin....

Once again I'll say if you are gonna do a conversion, just drop a Small Block chevy in it..

Easier and cheaper to repair than a six.. You can get 300 HP and never even try to do so! Just bolt it together. Hell all the parts can come from Summit!

TIV, or V8 if you ask me...

I have a 2L 6 that has been sitting for 8 years. I never had the money to install into the 914. I do have a 2533 4 in there now. I love the sound of my six in the 911 but I also love the sound of the 4 when I am passing guys with big V8 muscle cars. I love the big four. Just my feeling. If you want to go big talk to Jake on the four. Good luck with the 6. Thanks Mark

Did some work to get ready to run the six. New plugs, wires and coil.

Found an oil tank ( under the cushions of my sofa ) and had some oil lines made for testing.

We're shooting for a monday fire up!

What is a good fuel pump choice for a -6 conversion with Weber carbs?

I expect there is a popular electric pump that produces low pressure that everyone uses. Along with a regulator to get down to 4-6 psi.

Is it possible to retain the stock pump with a regulator and bypass line to return to tank?

yes.
it also makes for a nice 914-bonfire ...

Andy

I believe it would be a 914-6 bonfire...actually

914.6 fuel pump:
911.608.107.00

I've got a facet on both my cars -4 and -6.

Just re-read this thread.

Do It! Do It! Do It!
I do, and I love it.

But mine isn't stock. I know that, and so does everyone that ever drove it. No one knows for sure what's in it. According to a mix of advertisements from Larry Lee's db that seem to be correct based on the seat of the pants dyno, and what I can definitely confirm, it is - built on a stock 914/6 case, with E-cams, S-pistons and dizzy and 11 blade fan. If I had to guess, it's 120-140 HP at the rear wheels, maybe a tad more. The car will go on a dyno when the resto is complete.

Go for it - I just got mine back - 2.2ltr 6 - e cams - lots of fun - goes like stink - and sounds like an angelic choire !

I definitely want to stink! In an angelic way, of course!

Mooseheads for all a ya!

I'll video tape the start up and run.

Stink is gud.

Replay of a vid some of you may have missed.

http://www.914world.com/downloads/Videos/P3280103.MOV

You'll need Quicktime.

I'm restoring a factory 6 and have the stock 2.0L out of it now. Car was sitting about 10 years when I bought it. Had the leaves cleaned out of engine bay, new hoses, rebuilt webers, etc. Drove the car two months before beginning the resto.

I also have an '86 3.2L Carrera.

I've never driven a 2.0L 4-cyl. 914 just the 2.0L six. I wouldn't say it rocks but it's a very nice engine in such a light car. The exhaust system was bad and so the sound wasn't perfect but still good, like a Porsche flat 6. Compared to the 3.2L the sound is a higher pitched.

The sound of the 3.2 is different. Deeper and more of that classic Porsche 911 sound (not sure if engine related or 911 vs. 914 body related). Fuel injection makes it like a 2.0 4-cyl., always fires up. The Webers in the 2.0 are more tempremental when cold. When warm they're fine.

The problem with the 2.0 six is that it doesn't make much power. Don't get me wrong the car moves well but you have to really work the gears. The 3.2 feels like a truck motor in comparison, lots more torque.

I really wanted to replace the 2.0 with a 3.2 but then figured I'd end up with a $45K 914 worth maybe $25K instead of a $35K 914 worth $25K. I figure a completely stock factory 6 restored well is worth about the same as a converted factory 6. So I'm doing same thing as you putting in the 2.0 seeing if I like and if not upgrading to 3.2.

I heard there's not a whole lot you can do to get power up on a 2.0 but I'm going to ask mechanic to do as much as possible without doing a rebuild. Any ideas on easy power upgrades that don't change the character of the engine? I'm going with a 911 exhaust system.

If I was in your situation and needing to pay for the conversion on top of the engine I think I'd take a hard look at the 3.2 or Jake's motor. You'll have maybe $5K (?) more in project after selling the 2.0 but a much faster car that's not just "nice" but also rocks. I think your car would be worth much more with a larger than 2.0 engine, probably more than the investment difference. Financially you'd come out ahead.

If I imagine that 3.2 out of my Carrera in the 914-6 it just seems like nirvana. Brad makes a great point about the gearing of a stock 914 tranny, seems like it would be too low for a big engine like the 3.2.

Pete

Keep us posted on your project , too SP.

Everything is in place to start the engine today...EXCEPT. I had tickets fall into my lap free for the Giants vs. A's game tonight at 6:00.

I'll be leaving for that in an hour or so.
Maybe tomorrow it'll come to life.

Anyone know about " The Racer's Group" in Sonoma for engine dyno's. Brad?

I must *know* for sure what I have before I commit.( or commit myself )

Also saw an ad on pg.51 of June Panorama for " Racing Cams ". $299 for the set, exch.

Feedback please.

KT

Trekkor, E cams would probably be good for you. You give up some ultimate horsepower for torque. I think for a street/autocross car that would be a good choice.

For all around great performance, I'd probably go with the "Solex" grind. My personal preference is "S" cams or even hotter (GE60) for 3.0's and up.

I can give up low end grunt for high end scream, but that's my personal preference.

The last customer car I did had a 2.7 build up on a 2.4S, with real RS pistons and Solex cams. That engine is pretty impressive. Loads of torque, and respectable high end output. The customer (don9146) purchased the engine complete and running from a guy going to a 3.2.

PK

You mentioned solex cams... I've read that they provide a very streetable power-band on smaller engines, too.

When I get home, I'm considering a rebuild on my /6. I have an oil leak at the caseline that I can't get rid of without splitting it. I've done some reading and research... I have two choices:

1. Rebuild the existing motor, bored out cylinders to 2.2, solex cams and custom JE pistons. A bit of headwork will help make it flow. Add piston squirters, the oil bypass mod and other clean-up machine work, and I'm in the 6-7k range for the motor I think.

2. Buy another used motor outright (up to 2.7), and box up the stock motor for a future project.

Any used motor is a risk, but some risk can be mitigated. Buying outight is immediate gratification. Anything up to 2.7 will be bolt in, no flywheel mods required. With rejetting, my Webers will work on most any motor up to that size, cept for some RS spec monster. We all know how I feel about FI. :finger2:

Building my own has it's own unique challenges, but I'm pretty sure I can do that. Overall, less cost effective, but you pay for the experience and the knowledge that things are done right, and will last.

-Rusty

Rusty, any date on coming home?

I think I'd buy a core motor and rebuild it while you can still drive your current one.

Why not a 3 or 3.2L? So what if you have to change the flywheel? And it will be cheaper than rebuilding.

I looked at a 914-6 where this lady had over $10K into a 2L -> 2.2 E/S rebuild. The invoice for parts alone was $5K for E heads, E cams, S pistons and cylinders, and all the other small parts needed for a rebuild.

Nope, no date. Lots of rumors, but that's all they are. I come home when I step off the plane.



I believe it. The /6 parts are astronomical. Why not a 3.2?

1. I hate fuel injection. Don't try to convert me: I'm happy to be a heathen.
2. A 3.0 or larger means new flywheel (something I just replaced), and more HP on my stock 901 transmission. I don't need all that extra power, and it will just end up chewing up my gearbox.
3. Anything larger than a 2.7 means that a front mounted oil cooler is mandatory. Again, not interested in cutting my chassis or the expense.
4. Anything larger than a 3.0 won't breathe well with stock heat exchangers... and that's what I intend on keeping on the car.

Sometimes smaller IS better.

-Rusty

standard 3,0 SC's have the trombone cooler; turbo's got the radiator cooler.
many 2,7's had front coolers, and IIRC all 3,0's and up had at least the front trombone (which is basically just a way to turn the oil around and get it back to the tank - a significant amount of the cooling is actually done by the line fore and aft.

911's have significantly better airflow into the engine compartment than 914's, which always ran a little hotter than the 911 with the same engine (for which reason Porsche moved the red zone on the oil temp gage a bit to the right).

When people say: "The small engines are fine" I immediately ask them if they have ever ridden in a 3.0 or 3.2 powered 914. 99% of the time the answer is NO.

The price to rebuild a small 6: 10-12k. price to rebuild a 3.0 and up: 10-12k

The small engines look good up front because they are normally REALLY cheap.

Porsche changed when they released the 3.0. Quality went WAY up.

Unless you are governed by some racing rules or building a car for a specific class.. run a 3.0/3.2/3.6.

I also factor in driveability. An injected 3.0/3.2/3.6 quickly becomes a awesome daily driver with enough balls to run with just about anything being produced today and still get decent gas mileage.


B