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Full Version: My 73 Suby drivetrain conversion upgrade!
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Chris H.
Wow that's more than 2X what you had....should be fun.

FYI Subarugears sells an LSD. $900 shipped.
914forme
I rebuilt my OBX with the upgrade bolts you can see what all I did in my thread. You also need to debur the casting. And is OBX still making them, I was looking to build a second trans and could not find another OBX. I went a bit screwy.gif and surface plated the gears also so they where all flushed out.

Honda kids just change the bolts and drop them in and let the steel machine steel. screwy.gif

Chris is correct SubaruGears sells one for $900, and no rebuild time.
914forme
BTW Jamie you have to be frustrated, but it will be a small detail. Part of the reason, I put the fuel pump in the tank with a new prefilter. You can pull the nuts lift the pump out and see in the tank with out pulling the hood.

If you have access to a Borescope I would use that to see what's going on, before I pull the tank. I hate pulling tanks. Drop the under tray look around via the service holes, and remove the gas cap, and drop the scope on in and see what your pickup looks like.

Also I would rock the E85 in a heart beat, but would prefer to run with a sensor to switch the maps, not sure if your ECU can handle the input and run multiple maps based off the sensor.
76-914
QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 10 2019, 04:57 PM) *

Okay more fuel issues. I've got some kind of restriction up front. Not sure if the line is kinked from the tank to the SS fuel lines. Or I have something floating in the tank/filter. Pulling the tank int he morning to figure it out mad.gif . With it being so inconsistent I am thinking it is a partial clog or something floating int he filter. So is fine for a while then cuts out as it clogs it. Then when no pressure moves off? Makes the most sense to me anyway. So still don't have my numbers confused24.gif

Andy (Dyno tune guy) is pretty confident I should have 330ish to the wheels. If I were to go a little crazy with e85 race gas I could hit mid 400's with a little different tune WTF.gif . Next up for me is finding a Limited Slip for my tranny. They recommended the OBX with updated hardware. Best bang for the buck & very solid with the updated hardware. Still hoping to get it back tomorrow with the tune done.

Jamie, do you have any short pieces of the Goodyear brand fuel hose installed on your car? Maybe #R8 IIRC. Black on the outside and the inner wall is blue. beerchug.gif
914forme
Kent not following your logic here?

But if your running E-85 you will need hoses that can take that stuff, I would get the proper hoses and replace them all again, if I was switching. Gates Barricade is the best stuff out there.
76-914
QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 10 2019, 06:45 PM) *

Kent not following your logic here?

But if your running E-85 you will need hoses that can take that stuff, I would get the proper hoses and replace them all again, if I was switching. Gates Barricade is the best stuff out there.

That inner liner is very soft. When shoving that style hose over a steel line the inner liner can be "sliced" when slid on. This slice ends where the motion stopped so you created a flapper of sorts that now sits near or upon the steel line. When demand increases (flow increases ) this flapper is pulled down and restricts flow. In my case it happened immediately before the fuel pump where I shoved a piece on at an awkward angle. How you been buddy? Are we going to see you back at the conversion anytime soon? I miss that build..
JRust
Guess there was some gunk built up in my main SS feed line. Little time with an air hose cleared it out. Is working well again. Holding my breath. It's back on the dyno again & he is finishing the tune. I am supposed to pick it up this afternoon. Which means I am jinxing myself & something else will go wrong confused24.gif
76-914
We want a Video and not a 15 second one.
Andyrew
QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 11 2019, 03:06 PM) *

We want a Video and not a 15 second one.

agree.gif



popcorn[1].gif
914forme
QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 10 2019, 10:30 PM) *

QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 10 2019, 06:45 PM) *

Kent not following your logic here?

But if your running E-85 you will need hoses that can take that stuff, I would get the proper hoses and replace them all again, if I was switching. Gates Barricade is the best stuff out there.

That inner liner is very soft. When shoving that style hose over a steel line the inner liner can be "sliced" when slid on. This slice ends where the motion stopped so you created a flapper of sorts that now sits near or upon the steel line. When demand increases (flow increases ) this flapper is pulled down and restricts flow. In my case it happened immediately before the fuel pump where I shoved a piece on at an awkward angle. How you been buddy? Are we going to see you back at the conversion anytime soon? I miss that build..


@76-914 Kent, Not to steal Jamies thread not sure. I have a line on a new to me car, and my wife is asking I reduce the fleet. I currently have 8 cars for just 2 of us confused24.gif the 914-6 is going no where, I might be buried in it. The EG conversion has been on the chopping block a few times. But I keep pulling it off the block as I know, if I don't finish it, I will building something else. Like a Mid-Engine Locus, that would have enough welding / fabrication to keep me pleased for a while. So in reality I bounce back and forth each time I look at the car, build is on, look at all the other projects, I should go buy a Porsche Cayman.

Jamie Glad you found the issue and hopefully the tune goes well.
JRust
Okay here is a kinda short pull. Which ends with my tranny breaking. My luck continues
Dyno Run
Andyrew
QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 11 2019, 06:51 PM) *

Okay here is a kinda short pull. Which ends with my tranny breaking. My luck continues
Dyno Run

sad.gif

Looks like something else was going on before the trans locked up.... Did the motor lock up?
76-914
The run up sounded good Jamie. Is the transmission, clutch, etc. stock? beerchug.gif
PanelBilly
Don’t leave us hanging. This is like an episode from Dallas.
JRust
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 11 2019, 07:16 PM) *

QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 11 2019, 06:51 PM) *

Okay here is a kinda short pull. Which ends with my tranny breaking. My luck continues
Dyno Run

sad.gif

Looks like something else was going on before the trans locked up.... Did the motor lock up?

I don't think so on the motor. The tranny is bound up good. Even trying to shift it from the back end on the rod couldn't budge it. They will pull it Monday. If it did something to the motor as well. I will phucking lose it
Chris H.
Holy hell man...
Robarabian
Stay positive man.. you're in it to win it!
JRust
Looking for an 04 forester XT tranny. The 4.11 gearing will work much better for my setup. Though my freeway cruising will be. a bit high on the rpm. Still looking through tranny stuff. Also going to do the limited slip while I am doing it
Chris H.
Saw this one in the classifieds on NASIOC. No affiliation at all so I can't vouch for it. From a 2005 Legacy GT but it's a 4:11

Link to Subaru Trans

There are a couple of other ones on there that don't say what year. There is an 04 XT trans ad but it sold YESTERDAY. You could also do a WTB ad...there's a separate section for it.

I keep watching your video to try and understand what happened. Does the clutch operate OK, as in does the clutch arm move at the trans when you push the clutch pedal in?
JRust
QUOTE(Chris H. @ Oct 12 2019, 08:11 PM) *

There are a couple of other ones on there that don't say what year. There is an 04 XT trans ad but it sold YESTERDAY. You could also do a WTB ad...there's a separate section for it.

I keep watching your video to try and understand what happened. Does the clutch operate OK, as in does the clutch arm move at the trans when you push the clutch pedal in?

I think the drive he recommended was actually the 4.44 in that tranny. Still the 4:11 is better than what I have. So that might be a good option. I replied to the post but couldn't PM the guy because his box is full.

On my car I don't know on the clutch. I was just to pissed off & dejected to look at much of anything. I should be able to get some more info on Monday when they pull the tranny.
Chris H.
QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 13 2019, 12:16 AM) *


I think the drive he recommended was actually the 4.44 in that tranny. Still the 4:11 is better than what I have. So that might be a good option. I replied to the post but couldn't PM the guy because his box is full.

On my car I don't know on the clutch. I was just to pissed off & dejected to look at much of anything. I should be able to get some more info on Monday when they pull the tranny.


Yeah that thing is fighting you every step of the way. You'll eventually tame that beast!
76-914
poke.gif Enough with the "Cliff Hanger's" Jamie. biggrin.gif What were the torque numbers at the time it seized? beerchug.gif
JRust
QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 13 2019, 11:48 AM) *

poke.gif Enough with the "Cliff Hanger's" Jamie. biggrin.gif What were the torque numbers at the time it seized? beerchug.gif

I didn't get any of that. Was just getting to the point of really cranking things up. Was still at 10lbs of boost. I think I'll be in the 18lbs of boost when it's all said & done.
914forme
laugh.gif 18 PSI you gas guys crack me up. I start to worry when my diesels crank out 45-50 psi. confused24.gif

Jamie, I am sorry about the car, you have not caught a break yet. Hoping for the best expecting bits and pieces of the worst.

BTW, check you CV joints they took a hammering on that sudden stop. Mass of the rollers, and the sudden lack of movement, I would expect the outer CVs to not have much left in them if they did not crack a cage.

I am a sick-o and lots of people speculate, I would love to see carnage pictures, I know it is hard to do, yet it will help us understand the forces these see, and maybe that the 2WD version we build still has issues.

Hopefully you don't find that your spool exploded or backed off the shaft with a nut jammed between a couple of gears.

Hard to say until it is opened up.
pploco
I'm not sure what gear it was in but at about the :18 second mark you can definitely hear the trans start making funny noises.

So sorry man, that's gotta be damn frustrating. I've seen lots of transmissions on the Facebook PNW Subaru Owners group - I'll keep my eyes open.
Andyrew
QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 14 2019, 12:06 PM) *

laugh.gif 18 PSI you gas guys crack me up. I start to worry when my diesels crank out 45-50 psi. confused24.gif




I plan to run about 35psi on the upper end on my setup... But thats a built motor... The diesels are also built for such a thing...




Jamie, I forget, is this a new trans to the setup?? What trans did you used to run?
76-914
That trans wasn't kicked that hard. When the 2 wheel conversion was done was it welded or was the nut cranked down. If the latter, I wonder if that nut could have dropped and locked up that tranny? popcorn[1].gif
Andyrew
QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 14 2019, 06:54 PM) *

That trans wasn't kicked that hard. When the 2 wheel conversion was done was it welded or was the nut cranked down. If the latter, I wonder if that nut could have dropped and locked up that tranny? popcorn[1].gif

I'm wondering the same thing. That's pretty much the only thing that gets modified in the internals and that's one serious failure.

I bet you could remove the tail cover and get to the bottom of the issue really quick!
JRust
The tranny I ran in my previous suby conversion was a like a 99 forester 5speed.

The tranny I had for this conversion was a 2002 WRX 5mt. It was a CL buy & I had no info on it. Seemed to go through all the gears fine. Had a bit of metal shavings on the drain plug but what used suby trans doesn't. I had another trans as well but it is locked in gear. I didn't do anything but remove the rear diff for the locking spool. I am buying a JDM transmission from a forester XT with the 4.44 gears. I'm also going to get a Limited slip put in.

I doubt the locking spool backed itself off but I suppose it's possible. I put that on myself so it should be good idea.gif .

I will check the CV's out. The new tranny is coming with some as well. So I can just swap those in or get some new ones. Haven't looked into upgraded suby cv's.

I didn't get down to the shop today. I will go down tomorrow
sixnotfour
cliff hanger...hoping for the best for you Man..its been a road well traveled..Best of Luck tomorrow... beerchug.gif
JRust
Change of plans. Shop has another 02 tranny. They can swap it for mine & have it back on the dyno this week. So I am buying that so I can get my car back quicker. The other tranny with a limited slip I will work on over time & swap it when I am done. Didn't want to wait another 3 weeks with shipping on the lsd & tranny.

I'll update when I have more info. Which wont be until later in the week. I should get my car back friday. Untll something else flippin breaks anyway

Chris H.
Good plan.
Andyrew
piratenanner.gif
Chris914n6
post pics of the tranny carnage... inquiring minds want to know what failed confused24.gif
Amenson
Keep your head up and wallet open Jamie...you are so close!

I am curious about your inclination to go to a 4.11/4.44 final drive. Porsti only had 305whp last time it was running and with the 3.9 final drive, first gear was pretty much useless for anything but creating noise in school zones. Second wasn't much better. Even with your wider tires and a bit more lag from the larger turbo, first and second will not do much for you with a 4.11/4.44. I am working on a plan to steal Stephen's 3.7 or 3.8 transmission in preparation for Porsti having higher compression forged pistons, forged rods and Flex fuel.
JRust
QUOTE(Amenson @ Oct 18 2019, 09:48 AM) *

Keep your head up and wallet open Jamie...you are so close!

I am curious about your inclination to go to a 4.11/4.44 final drive. Porsti only had 305whp last time it was running and with the 3.9 final drive, first gear was pretty much useless for anything but creating noise in school zones. Second wasn't much better. Even with your wider tires and a bit more lag from the larger turbo, first and second will not do much for you with a 4.11/4.44. I am working on a plan to steal Stephen's 3.7 or 3.8 transmission in preparation for Porsti having higher compression forged pistons, forged rods and Flex fuel.

Shop was telling me I would stay in the power band better with the turbo. When I would go to shift I would be where the turbo is spooling. I will have some lag with the 3.90. As it is I am staying with the 3.90 for now. I will see how it feels before I end up buying another tranny. I did find a 4.11 5 speed out of an 04 RS imprezza. I am hoping to snag it but the guy hasn't gotten back to me. No big deal at this point.
Amenson
QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 18 2019, 01:05 PM) *

QUOTE(Amenson @ Oct 18 2019, 09:48 AM) *

Keep your head up and wallet open Jamie...you are so close!

I am curious about your inclination to go to a 4.11/4.44 final drive. Porsti only had 305whp last time it was running and with the 3.9 final drive, first gear was pretty much useless for anything but creating noise in school zones. Second wasn't much better. Even with your wider tires and a bit more lag from the larger turbo, first and second will not do much for you with a 4.11/4.44. I am working on a plan to steal Stephen's 3.7 or 3.8 transmission in preparation for Porsti having higher compression forged pistons, forged rods and Flex fuel.

Shop was telling me I would stay in the power band better with the turbo. When I would go to shift I would be where the turbo is spooling. I will have some lag with the 3.90. As it is I am staying with the 3.90 for now. I will see how it feels before I end up buying another tranny. I did find a 4.11 5 speed out of an 04 RS imprezza. I am hoping to snag it but the guy hasn't gotten back to me. No big deal at this point.

Your car is probably much lighter than what the shop is used to working with...plus less losses from being only 2WD. There is barely enough load on the engine in first, and to some extent 2, to build much boost. I'll see if I can dig up any data logs.

Andyrew
I have bigger turbo than you with less displacement and more lag and while I found that my shorter geared trani and shorter tires on stickies make for quicker response, but on the street it made the car feel slower due to how often I needed to shift. I didnt percieve more power to the ground as I would have expected with shorter gears, in fact it felt slower... The longer geared trani felt more like a rocket with the short lag then a LONG pull.



Just saying I am really debating putting another long geard trani or a custom box with a short 2nd gear for autox.

Compare these two videos. The first video is short box with small tires. Second gear goes to just over 60. There is a almost an unnoticeable difference in time. Power is about 260-270whp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVZpVREkpFw




Second video. Longer gearing, old tune, taller/heavier tires. Power is probably 280whp or so in second. Speed displayed is probably accurate, as it should be about 75mph at the top of 2nd. Thats 15mph difference with roughly the same time and a hair more lag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hliU58TRbFE




If all I did was autox and hill climb then the short box for sure. But on the street, that long box makes the car feel so much bigger than it is.
rhodyguy
109 in 17 sec not trying too hard? WOW. In town no less. dry.gif
JRust
Tranny is in & it is back on the Dyno! Heading down in a bit to get it. I'll should finally have some numbers today
Andyrew
QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Oct 18 2019, 12:23 PM) *

109 in 17 sec not trying too hard? WOW. In town no less. dry.gif


Well call it a private separated 4 lane road with canal median... In Mexico...







But I want to see some numbers!!! Glad to see some on schedule progress Jamie!!!
JRust
Okay well I did get to drive my car & brought it home. The boost controller wasn't working. They didn't have anymore in stock. So at the moment I am at just 11lbs of boost. I'll go back down next week for the new boost controller & will get my turbo cranked up then. I'll get a much better dyno sheet as well. This one hardly shows the graphs. Sorry the lines are so faint. I'm at 230 hp to the wheels at 6150 rpms & 214lbs of torque at 4750 rpms. Nowhere close to what I expected but my boost is so low.

Having said all that. It has been raining all day & I have done nothing but drive it a few miles. It pulls amazing but I really didn't go all out. To wet outside I just spin the wheels with much pedal. I also ran out of gas about 5 miles from the shop. Forgot with my fuel issues we had to drain the tank. They put in gas to run the dyno but not a lot. I did see the gauge on empty but just thought it wasn't working. LOL! So got to sit on the side of the road for a half hour while I waited for more fuel. Put in close to 5 gallons & fired right up. Drove right to the gas station where it took 12 gallons. Then hooked up to my truck & flat towed it home. MY passenger rear wheel is either bent or out of balance. I saw it on the dyno & didn't feel it so much when I drove it. My day is pretty shot tomorrow unfortunately. So I won't get to do anything with it. Hopefully Sunday afternoon I'll have a little time to play around
dan10101
QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 18 2019, 08:15 PM) *

Okay well I did get to drive my car & brought it home.


Awesome! I can imagine what went thru your head when it ran out of gas.

You're getting close!
Andyrew
Awesome!!!! That looks near identical to my setup up to about 6k when I'm on ~11psi!

Seriously promising stuff there!

Next time if your there on the Dyno and the controller doesn't work just add small "t" valves to the boost line to the wastegate. They'll bump up the pressure so you can at least tune for the bigger boost.

That or a $30 bleed valve.. surprised your tuner didn't just throw one on so you wouldn't have to revisit them...


Congrats on great progress!!
914forme
Your getting really close Jamie - enjoy the car.
76-914
Congrats Jamie. It's been a long road and unfortunately, one you couldn't drive on. av-943.gif Your torque is the same as my 6. By the way, stay off wet roads unless you want a repeat! shades.gif
JRust
Well I took a quick 20 minute drive tonight. Heard a little clickety clack one the road. Turned around as it is a sound I am familiar with. One rear wheel was a bit loose. Torqued that wheel & check all the others. Good thing as there was at least one loose nut on each wheel. Took it back out. Pulls through all the gears great. I always get gearing back words but these seem pretty long. Other than 1st gear the rest seem fairly long before needing to shift. Also my Speedhut speedometer isn't working. It lights up but the needle isn't moving. The calibrate doesn't seem to be working. I've got to look into that some more. My shifts are really short & quick. I have to say the Zero decibals bell crank setup is smooth & precise. Really impressed with it & he is just finishing his own shifter. I can see that on my wish list
Maltese Falcon
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 18 2019, 11:10 PM) *

Awesome!!!! That looks near identical to my setup up to about 6k when I'm on ~11psi!

Seriously promising stuff there!

Next time if your there on the Dyno and the controller doesn't work just add small "t" valves to the boost line to the wastegate. They'll bump up the pressure so you can at least tune for the bigger boost.

That or a $30 bleed valve.. surprised your tuner didn't just throw one on so you wouldn't have to revisit them...


Congrats on great progress!!


As they always mentioned during Moon landings (that little air bleed knob ) " Cycle the Parker valve " smile.gif
Robarabian
Congratulations Jaime!! Sounds like it is finally a GO Go GO!!!!! I cant wait to see the car in person one day.
Chris H.
QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 19 2019, 09:13 PM) *

Well I took a quick 20 minute drive tonight. Heard a little clickety clack one the road. Turned around as it is a sound I am familiar with. One rear wheel was a bit loose. Torqued that wheel & check all the others. Good thing as there was at least one loose nut on each wheel. Took it back out. Pulls through all the gears great. I always get gearing back words but these seem pretty long. Other than 1st gear the rest seem fairly long before needing to shift. Also my Speedhut speedometer isn't working. It lights up but the needle isn't moving. The calibrate doesn't seem to be working. I've got to look into that some more. My shifts are really short & quick. I have to say the Zero decibals bell crank setup is smooth & precise. Really impressed with it & he is just finishing his own shifter. I can see that on my wish list


Great news! That 3.90 trans will probably be fine for you. FYI if can't resolve the trouble with the speedo you can send it back to Speedhut and have it converted to GPS...I had the same issue so that's what I did.

Enjoy it!
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