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Full Version: Cairo's Six - 3.6 in and running great!
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tygaboy
Getting so close!!
930cabman
Looks beautious
mb911
O2 sensor bung not have anti seize on it?

50mm is 2” give or take for the heat hose. Again look up scat or skeet tubing and you will find tons of options
Tom1394racing
I bought my 50 mm heater hose here:

https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-028-129-087-agr/
Cairo94507
@MB911 Hi Ben - Not sure about the anti-seize, it was installed by AASE Motors. But, looking at the plug, it does not look like it. beerchug.gif
technicalninja
They actually make Hi temp anti sieze for exhaust stuff.

Powdered nickel instead of aluminum.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-77124-Nicke...urce=1&th=1
mb911
This is what I would suggest https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productse...sp?Product=3630
eric9144
Haven't been on here as much recently with summer vacations, *awesome progress* on this popcorn[1].gif
Was also interesting to see the camp914 rear decklid struts, its always frustrated me to not have any springs on my rear decklid so I'll probably order some of those up asap.

Getting close!! beerchug.gif
Cairo94507
@eric9144 - Craig's (Camp914.com) rear trunk shock kit works like a charm. The only thing we did differently (maybe) is we removed 2 of the balls from the brackets, drilled the hinge to accept and then welded them onto the trunk hinge. I will need to finish that with primer and paint once we get everything else sorted- but easy enough as it is just the hinge. The only place we used the provided bracket with the ball is along the side trunk weather strip channel, following his measurements. Worked perfectly and I am amazed how easy the trunk opens and closes. Definitely a good improvement. And, Craig is just a great guy to deal with and he shipped so promptly. Camp 914!
Cairo94507
OK, we removed the driver's heat exchanger and used a tap to clean the threads of the o2 bung. Reinstalled the heat exchanger and then installed the o2 sensor and connected that up.

Then we addressed 2 small drips, one from the oil tank line where it meets the engine oil line, just needed to be tightened. Then the detent spring nut on the transaxle. Greg installed a very thin aluminum washer and tightened that down. It was just seeping enough to make the bolt slightly wet. Hopefully that solves both of those.

Then Greg tackled the remaining wiring and got that sorted. We were able to remove 1 spark plug from each cylinder, the fuel pump relay and then actually crank the engine over to make sure all the cylinders were clean.

At that point we reinstalled the spark plugs and pretty much called it a day as it was 106 degrees and we are old. It was not really a picture heavy kind of day -sorry. beerchug.gif

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mb911
When you going to fire it up? I have been dealing with crazy heat here as well. Makes it no fun to work on anything
Shivers
Great work
rick 918-S
boldblue.gif does it run yet? lol-2.gif crazy hot here last weekend dry.gif
Cairo94507
We will see what happens on Friday or Saturday, whichever day we end up working on her. beerchug.gif
Cairo94507
It's ALIVE! We think we have an injector that is plugged up; it runs and starts right up (finally) but it has a miss at low RPM's and is running way rich. We will pull the injectors and take them to a fuel injector shop on Monday to have them serviced (if possible) or just replace them if need be. Then we will see how it runs. It's lumpy at low RPM but if you rev it to 5K it sounds very good. Getting it to run was the huge hurdle. More to follow in the morning about that. beerchug.gif @ClayPerrine . @tygaboy . @Steve @markhoward
Steve
Congrats!! You’re getting closer!!
beerchug.gif
markhoward
Well done Michael!
tygaboy
YES!!!! Can't hardly wait to see it in the metal. Big Congrats to all!
piratenanner.gif beerchug.gif cheer.gif smilie_pokal.gif
Krieger
piratenanner.gif YES!
930cabman
beerchug.gif beerchug.gif

It's alive is always a good sign. hopefully the miss you are experiencing will be a simple fix

Victory is piratenanner.gif
ClayPerrine
Congrats!

Huge milestone crossed.
East coaster
Congrats!
Cairo94507
Thanks everyone. We are almost at the finish line. For the past 2 workdays we have been trying to sort a no-start issue. We had power to the coils but no spark when cranking. We figured the Crank Reference Sensor (CRS) was not functioning. Greg talked to a good friend of his who is a Master Porsche mechanic and he asked about the gap for the CRS. We had installed it and did not gap it. We pulled the transaxle and indeed the gap was twice what it should be. We corrected that and put her back together. Still no spark.

Greg and I noodled on it over the break and talked about when we installed the CRS and were required to update the connector on the engine harness for the new CRS and considered if we got a wire crossed. Greg called Kevin T. (owner of the Blue flared 914-6 with a 3.6) and asked Kevin to snap a picture of his CRS connector. Sure enough, his was wired differently. Thank you Kevin. I ordered a new connector from Porsche.

While my brother and HB went to Porsche to pick-up the new connector, Greg and I finished up the charcoal canister plumbing from the canister on my fuel tank to the engine.

My brother, Bob, has been there for every part of this swap and has provided support and encouragement along the way. HB @Long_Ago is a great friend, like Greg, and has been there as well. A special thank you to Bob and HB.

When Bobby and HB returned we installed the new connector with the wires pinned like Kevin's and we now had spark- Yay! When we tried to start her she sounded like she wanted to run and we got a puff of smoke out of the exhaust. All encouraging, but it still did not start. Greg shot some starter fluid into her and it did start for a second and then died.

We noodled on that no-start issue and Greg called his buddy and he asked if my DME had the Drive Block system. (Early '95 3.6 were not supposed to have that.) I had checked with Steve Wong when I bought the engine and provided him my engine serial number and a picture of my DME serial number. He told me my engine was Drive Block free.

Regardless of being Drive Block free, I bought a Steve Wong chip for the 3.6 as we are not running a stock flywheel; we have the 901 in there. My Kennedy Engineering flywheel is 9.5 pounds and considered a lightweight flywheel. Steve said if I do not run a modified chip, when I take my foot off the gas to come to a stop the engine RPM's will drop and the engine will want to stall. Made sense to me so we installed the Steve Wong chip. Well, when we were trouble-shooting the no start condition, we swapped out the custom chip and installed the stock chip. Greg and his buddy said, "put the Steve Wong chip back in and see what happens". Apparently, the Steve Wong chips also come designed to be Drive Block free.

We reinstalled the Steve Wong chip and she fired right up! Major milestone and we were very pleased. (Lesson learned, in the 27 years that motor sat, apparently the DME we received was not the DME that originally left the factory with that car.)

A special thanks to Clay @ClayPerrine who has been providing his expertise behind the scenes as we work our way through this swap. He has shared his knowledge/expertise along the way and it has been very helpful.

The engine is not running like she should; lumpy at low RPM, running very rich with a rough idle. At higher RPM she sounds great. This engine sat in storage since 1997 when it was removed from the 993 with 18K miles on it. After discussing it for a bit we decided we likely have some fouled injectors. On Monday, Greg is going to take them to a local fuel injector shop and see if they can be cleaned/serviced. If not, we will buy new injectors. We believe the rough running and rich condition are the result of an injector(s) stuck open, dumping fuel into the cylinder and that is why when you get to higher RPM's it smooths right out. We shall see. We stopped for the day as we did not want to wash the cylinders down with a bunch of fuel. We expected her to smoke when we fired her up due to all of the Marvel Mystery Oil we had squirted into the cylinders while the motor sat in my garage awaiting installation. She did not disappoint and fogged the garage quite nicely.

Oh, Greg's buddy also asked us to check the connection on our cylinder head temperature sensor because if that is not connected properly, apparently that will cause the DME to enrich the engine. Our is connected properly and this richness is more than that.

OK. That catches you up. We will get back on this probably mid-week and see what we get accomplished. beerchug.gif
SirAndy
piratenanner.gif
burton73
Michael, way to go. very happy for you guys

Best Bob B
ClayPerrine


Congrats........... You might consider a set of these: https://www.ctsturbo.com/product/bosch-42lb...dance-injector/ They are a plug and play replacement for the stock 964/993 injectors. They have better flow and fuel atomization due to a newer pintle design. This is what I am using on the 4.0 monster.
frankieshooz
Once again Michael raises the bar…amazing!
rick 918-S
I had a rich condition that turned out to be low fuel pressure. You would think that would be the opposite. confused24.gif
Cairo94507
@rick 918-S I don't think it is low fuel pressure. When we first turned the key to power the systems, I had maybe 2 gallons of gas in the tank. We could hear the fuel pump pumping and it quickly was pouring gas back into the tank via the return line- sounded like a garden hose pouring water. But still, it is a good idea to throw a fuel pressure gauge in line to see... you never know. beerchug.gif

@frankieshooz Thanks a bunch, let's hope it comes out as nice and we had planned. Once you get your car back from PMB we have to meet up at one of the gatherings. I would love to see your car. beerchug.gif

@ClayPerrine - Those injectors look nice and would not break the bank either. I see they are presently out of stock. I have saved that page and will check to see when they are available. Even if we service mine, new injectors might be nice. beerchug.gif
tygaboy
I sent the Ferrari injectors to Mr. Injector. He seems to be the "go-to" for service.
ClayPerrine
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 28 2024, 07:24 AM) *

@rick 918-S I don't think it is low fuel pressure. When we first turned the key to power the systems, I had maybe 2 gallons of gas in the tank. We could hear the fuel pump pumping and it quickly was pouring gas back into the tank via the return line- sounded like a garden hose pouring water. But still, it is a good idea to throw a fuel pressure gauge in line to see... you never know. beerchug.gif

@frankieshooz Thanks a bunch, let's hope it comes out as nice and we had planned. Once you get your car back from PMB we have to meet up at one of the gatherings. I would love to see your car. beerchug.gif

@ClayPerrine - Those injectors look nice and would not break the bank either. I see they are presently out of stock. I have saved that page and will check to see when they are available. Even if we service mine, new injectors might be nice. beerchug.gif


That's not the only place you can get them. Search around for the best price and availability.
Cairo94507
I just ordered the vacuum canister for the resonance flap. I did not have one....what the heck? My understanding is that comes into play at higher RPM's. confused24.gif
Steve
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 29 2024, 04:49 PM) *

I just ordered the vacuum canister for the resonance flap. I did not have one....what the heck? My understanding is that comes into play at higher RPM's. confused24.gif

I left mine connected, but SMC and Paragon list it as part of the air injection. https://www.paragon-products.com/Vacuum-Res....110.140.03.htm So I am curious if it’s needed.
ClayPerrine
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 29 2024, 06:49 PM) *

I just ordered the vacuum canister for the resonance flap. I did not have one....what the heck? My understanding is that comes into play at higher RPM's. confused24.gif


There is a check valve and a vacuum canister in the line to the resonance flap. It is needed to keep the resonance flap open at full throttle. The manifold vacuum goes to zero at full throttle, and the resonance flap would close when it is needed the most. The canister provides enough vacuum reserve to keep it open. The check valve keeps it from dumping to the intake plenum that is at zero vacuum.

Cairo94507
Ohhhh... now I have to find a check valve. beerchug.gif

Greg was able to take the injectors to the shop to get them serviced. I can't wait to get back out there so we can install them and see if that helped. confused24.gif
technicalninja
Look to the AC world if Porsche is excessive on price.

Most of the dash systems from 20 years back had vacuum controls.

The check valves and vacuum canisters are sources of problems.

Need MORE volume in the canister?

VW water pumpers had what looked like a bunch of frog's eggs clipped to the hood.

Those are the best canisters of all...
technicalninja
I've got a couple of brand new MOPAR valves.

I'd ship one for free if it would help...
Steve
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 30 2024, 06:11 AM) *

Ohhhh... now I have to find a check valve. beerchug.gif

Greg was able to take the injectors to the shop to get them serviced. I can't wait to get back out there so we can install them and see if that helped. confused24.gif

thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif
Curious what valve you are referring to? This one? https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/9556...amp;SVSVSI=0643
eric9144
piratenanner.gif so close driving.gif
Cairo94507
OK, the injector shop said the injectors were fine. So the hunt continues for why it is running rich and rough at low RPM. beerchug.gif
roundtwo
Great project and progress Michael. I’ve been watching from the sidelines and learning along from you and the pit crew clap56.gif
ClayPerrine
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 30 2024, 04:13 PM) *

OK, the injector shop said the injectors were fine. So the hunt continues for why it is running rich and rough at low RPM. beerchug.gif


Did you replace the O-rings under the intakes? Vacuum leaks will cause rough running.

Also, check to make sure the distributor is installed correctly. The injection is sequential, and if the distributor is installed wrong, it will run rough.

Cairo94507
@roundtwo - Thanks- I appreciate that. I look forward to seeing your car again.

@ClayPerrine - We did not replace the O-rings under the intake. We believe the distributor dropped right in the way it came out.... I will talk to Greg about that.

Thank you guys. beerchug.gif
Steve
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 31 2024, 05:08 AM) *

@roundtwo - Thanks- I appreciate that. I look forward to seeing your car again.

@ClayPerrine - We did not replace the O-rings under the intake. We believe the distributor dropped right in the way it came out.... I will talk to Greg about that.

Thank you guys. beerchug.gif

The pulley should be on TDC (red mark) and both distributors should point to the line. Easy to see with the caps off. Could it also be the ICV? Is it also hunting at idle?
Cairo94507
@Steve - Thanks for the info Steve. As we continue to work this issue, we will be checking all that stuff. I appreciate your thoughts on this. beerchug.gif
technicalninja
Mailed check valve today.

Incoming!
ClayPerrine
I was talking with Betty about this at dinner. And I thought of something else to check.

Make sure both coils are firing. The engine will run on one ignition, but it will do so badly. The pistons are large enough to need both coils to run smooth.

Put a timing light on each coil wire and make sure they are both firing.

Mine wasn't firing on both cylinders initially. I had a bad igniter.

Hope that helps!
mb911
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jul 31 2024, 06:42 PM) *

I was talking with Betty about this at dinner. And I thought of something else to check.

Make sure both coils are firing. The engine will run on one ignition, but it will do so badly. The pistons are large enough to need both coils to run smooth.

Put a timing light on each coil wire and make sure they are both firing.

Mine wasn't firing on both cylinders initially. I had a bad igniter.

Hope that helps!

agree.gif

Had a 964 that had a bad coil and it ran terrible. Unplugged the one coil and it ran better. Bought a new replacement for the bad one and all was good
Cairo94507
@ClayPerrine @MB911 = Excellent tip. I am. headed to Greg's this morning with the list of things to check. We shall see. beerchug.gif
930cabman
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Aug 1 2024, 06:08 AM) *

@ClayPerrine @MB911 = Excellent tip. I am. headed to Greg's this morning with the list of things to check. We shall see. beerchug.gif


Hopefully "the list" is getting smaller aktion035.gif
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