What happens At The Red Barn, stays at Th...er... Goes on my YouTube channel!
Michael agreed it'd be OK to post video of what we're up to so here's Part 1. Note that many of the folks who'll see this may know little about 914s so I spend some time talking about details that you may already know. Hope you enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyBpMUOeGLw
Full Version: Cairo's Six - Ready for the Next Evolution?
Great job Chris 
. I feel so lucky to have a friend like Chris who is not only a terrific guy, but a master fabricator. I knew he was the guy to do the seatbelt modification after seeing all of the fabrication he has done over the years. Aside from that, he just has that kind of mind that looks at all of this and comes up with great solutions. I can not wait until we get to the new (larger) oil cooler, 3 5.25" fans and shroud. I know it will be just perfection in form and function. 
. I feel so lucky to have a friend like Chris who is not only a terrific guy, but a master fabricator. I knew he was the guy to do the seatbelt modification after seeing all of the fabrication he has done over the years. Aside from that, he just has that kind of mind that looks at all of this and comes up with great solutions. I can not wait until we get to the new (larger) oil cooler, 3 5.25" fans and shroud. I know it will be just perfection in form and function.
Hi Michael,
Hey, have you seen the setup that Enrique, @RiqueMar , did on his 3.6 install?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...8955&st=920
I purchased 2 oil cooler fan kits from him to be used on my brothers and my 6.
Just a thought unless that's the way you guys plan on doing the install.
Hey, have you seen the setup that Enrique, @RiqueMar , did on his 3.6 install?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...8955&st=920
I purchased 2 oil cooler fan kits from him to be used on my brothers and my 6.
Just a thought unless that's the way you guys plan on doing the install.
I watch this thread with great interest. I have a ‘70 914-6. Original #’s matching motor is stored away. Installed is a stock 3.2 with the original Weber carbs and fan assembly from the original motor. Motor looks stock with original air box. My goal is to not modify anything that isn’t reversable. The oil cooling is dual 930 coolers w/fans mounted below the rear trunk floor using existing mounts. So far this has worked really well including in stop and go traffic. Wheels are original deep 6’s modified by Weidman to R7’s front (205/55) and R8’s rear (215/50).
@Luke M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.
[b]@4CamGT - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.
BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.
[b]@4CamGT - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.
BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 01:28 PM) 
<b>@Luke M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.
[b]@4CamGT</b> - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.
BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.
The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.Click to view attachment
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 01:50 PM)
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 01:28 PM)
<b>@Luke M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.
[b]@4CamGT</b> - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.
BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.
The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:01 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 01:50 PM)
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 01:28 PM)
<b>@Luke M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.
[b]@4CamGT</b> - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.
BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.
The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
Sorry about the multiple posts!!
Impressive collection of equipment. That IG and bright chrome work is so right on a 914.
I’m seeing a creamsicle in this thread. Who owns it and is the car on the 914 Can Am registry?
Hi Jeff @JeffBowlsby - Hi Jeff, that car belongs to Greg T.'s son. He just bought it and I have looked it over and it is a very decent LE that has had 1 repaint. I will be there on Tuesday and ask Greg to check with his son and see if he minds if I check the VIN to see if it is already in the database, and if not, if I can add it. I do know he plans to restore it 100% stock.
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 03:07 PM)
Hi Jeff @JeffBowlsby - Hi Jeff, that car belongs to Greg T.'s son. He just bought it and I have looked it over and it is a very decent LE that has had 1 repaint. I will be there on Tuesday and ask Greg to check with his son and see if he minds if I check the VIN to see if it is already in the database, and if not, if I can add it. I do know he plans to restore it 100% stock.
Thanks Michael. The registry is not set up for user modifications, but if you will send me the info I am happy to add it. I’ll need photos/data of as much of the following as is available:
VIN
City/state where located
Owners name/emaill
A few photos of the car
Cert of authenticity or PPS
Images of the two drivers door jamb plates (safety label & chassis number)
Engine/trans SN
Please email these to me. Thx!
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
Sorry about the multiple posts!!
Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?
QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
Sorry about the multiple posts!!
Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?
Yes it is
Might have to plan a drive down that way to check out the progress.
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 11:01 PM)
QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
Sorry about the multiple posts!!
Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?
Yes it is
Knew of it but have never seen it.
Very cool.
Love a 'sneaky' 6
Like the kids in the back seat - Does it run yet???
I wish; I know you were joking. My car is at Chris' (Red Barn) and will be there for about 2 weeks more. I have to return some parts, order some parts and then it all has to get fitted.
Once that is done the car will go back to Greg's and we will do whatever is necessary to make any areas that had work look like they did before the work.
Then the 3.6 will go to Greg's and we will make the engine tins from a set of new 914-6 (Ben's) tins as well as the stock set of 993 tins and send them out for powder coating in satin black. We will do some service work on the 993, replace or refinish brackets, clips, clamps, etc., and then we can get her in the car. I am guessing 2 months overall. At least that is the road map....
Once that is done the car will go back to Greg's and we will do whatever is necessary to make any areas that had work look like they did before the work.
Then the 3.6 will go to Greg's and we will make the engine tins from a set of new 914-6 (Ben's) tins as well as the stock set of 993 tins and send them out for powder coating in satin black. We will do some service work on the 993, replace or refinish brackets, clips, clamps, etc., and then we can get her in the car. I am guessing 2 months overall. At least that is the road map....
QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 08:53 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 11:01 PM)
QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 05:41 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)
3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.
Sorry about the multiple posts!!
Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?
Yes it is
Knew of it but have never seen it.
Very cool.
Love a 'sneaky' 6
Thank you! It runs amazing! It is by far the most fun and usable vintage Porsche that I have. Drives like a late 80’s Carrera but much lighter and faster. I don’t worry about it in traffic. The dual 930 coolers do a good job.
Like Chris says, "If it were easy, everyone would do it".
After 2 days of researching coolers, fans, talking with the experts, I ordered a different Setrab oil cooler. I have to thank Marv at Setrab. He walked me through Oil Cooler 101 and I learned the cooler I got from PMS, a single-pass, would work. But better than that is the same cooler in double-pass configuration. The double-pass provides 5-8% better cooling and is their highest performance oil cooler. We are also going to go with 3 5.25" "puller" fans that move 340 CFM each. So that should be moving a lot of freakin' air.
After 2 days of researching coolers, fans, talking with the experts, I ordered a different Setrab oil cooler. I have to thank Marv at Setrab. He walked me through Oil Cooler 101 and I learned the cooler I got from PMS, a single-pass, would work. But better than that is the same cooler in double-pass configuration. The double-pass provides 5-8% better cooling and is their highest performance oil cooler. We are also going to go with 3 5.25" "puller" fans that move 340 CFM each. So that should be moving a lot of freakin' air.
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 26 2024, 02:28 PM)
Like Chris says, "If it were easy, everyone would do it".
After 2 days of researching coolers, fans, talking with the experts, I ordered a different Setrab oil cooler. I have to thank Marv at Setrab. He walked me through Oil Cooler 101 and I learned the cooler I got from PMS, a single-pass, would work. But better than that is the same cooler in double-pass configuration. The double-pass provides 5-8% better cooling and is their highest performance oil cooler. We are also going to go with 3 5.25" "puller" fans that move 340 CFM each. So that should be moving a lot of freakin' air.
I’m interested to see how well the louvered slots work vs opening up a rectangular hole as per factory GT. I like the idea of using the bulkhead holes. One idea I had early on was to fabricate a lengthened factory style shroud that extended to the rear floor holes. Maybe this could work with fan assist as an example of minimal mods that could be reversed?
QUOTE
The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.Click to view attachment
Freeman, so nice to see you posting on this site! Could you elaborate further about the rear flares being done when it was new? Does that mean you finally did confirm they were done at the factory? For those that don’t know, this was my beloved car for 25 years! Here’s another pic of these unique rear flares.
Michael, sorry for the hijack on your thread. Click to view attachment
@stevesc_us No worries at all. That 6 looks just like one that use to run around Danville years ago; I always loved that car.
@4CamGT - If I did not already have the louvered floor, that would be a great approach. We will have to wait to see how effective the louvers are at venting the air out of the trunk. I am guessing 2 months before we have it installed and running.
@4CamGT - If I did not already have the louvered floor, that would be a great approach. We will have to wait to see how effective the louvers are at venting the air out of the trunk. I am guessing 2 months before we have it installed and running.
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 27 2024, 08:00 AM)
@stevesc_us No worries at all. That 6 looks just like one that use to run around Danville years ago; I always loved that car.
@4CamGT - If I did not already have the louvered floor, that would be a great approach. We will have to wait to see how effective the louvers are at venting the air out of the trunk. I am guessing 2 months before we have it installed and running.
When I designed the louvered floor that Michael uses, I made sure it had ~2x the airflow as the PMS louvered panels. So it doesn’t look like a lot but it should continue to work well. I pulled out the round panels for my car. It wasn’t a matter of “one day going back to stock” I never will. It was just really easy. They are just held in with seam sealer.
One question keeps rolling around in my head …..unless you run the car on the track, if you already have a 3.2 why go through the expense (and mods) of going to a 3.6. I know you can never have too much horsepower, but seems like this may not actually improve drive ability. Don’t kill the messenger…..just wondering.
Yeah, I know. The 3.2 ran terrific, pulled like a freight train with the 964 cams and Steve Wong Chip and of course Ben's SS heat exchangers. But the 3.6 was just sitting there in the Classifieds for months....and I could not resist the fact it was a local, 18K mile, properly stored engine. Plus, though my car is not tracked or raced, why not? Oh, and hydraulic valve lifters too. 
QUOTE(stevesc_us @ Feb 26 2024, 10:35 PM)
QUOTE
The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.
Freeman, so nice to see you posting on this site! Could you elaborate further about the rear flares being done when it was new? Does that mean you finally did confirm they were done at the factory? For those that don’t know, this was my beloved car for 25 years! Here’s another pic of these unique rear flares.
Michael, sorry for the hijack on your thread.
Steve, nice to see you here as well! Back in 2019 I visited the Porsche Museum with my ex-colleague, Porsche designer Grant Larson. We didn’t find any documentation on the rear flares. We did however get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery
For comparison…
Way to go Michael. A brave endeavor !!!
Saw your spotless car over at Chris's ...beautiful as ever...I can see why Chris is a little hesitant about mixing your car with even the hint of welding. No doubt I'll be spying on the progress of the seat belts and want to see the details of the fan install...a project I might need to copy and paste on my car.
Saw your spotless car over at Chris's ...beautiful as ever...I can see why Chris is a little hesitant about mixing your car with even the hint of welding. No doubt I'll be spying on the progress of the seat belts and want to see the details of the fan install...a project I might need to copy and paste on my car.
It happened it was the year the Porsche Museum was celebrating 50 years of the 914!
Michael
What belt retractor and receiver are you using in the seatbelt upgrade
I did this back n the eighties on a car I no longer own and now can not remember the details. I seem to recall I used late 914 or VW belts/ retractors
Would like to do this on my car now. Love to drive it but those old belts do not inspire confidence!
What belt retractor and receiver are you using in the seatbelt upgrade
I did this back n the eighties on a car I no longer own and now can not remember the details. I seem to recall I used late 914 or VW belts/ retractors
Would like to do this on my car now. Love to drive it but those old belts do not inspire confidence!
My car has the PMS front Setrab cooler along with dual fans (on a manual switch under the dash). In -most- normal driving situations here in SoCal, just the cooler without the fans works pretty well, when temps pop up a bit (driving hard or sitting in traffic) I will flip the fans on for additional cooling, have considered just putting them on a thermo switch so they kick on or off at temps but doing it manually isn't really a big deal... But then again I also have that massive Petersen style oil tank with 12-14qts in it --This is a pic without the fan shroud in place 
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
QUOTE(eric9144 @ Feb 27 2024, 10:06 AM)
My car has the PMS front Setrab cooler along with dual fans (on a manual switch under the dash). In -most- normal driving situations here in SoCal, just the cooler without the fans works pretty well, when temps pop up a bit (driving hard or sitting in traffic) I will flip the fans on for additional cooling, have considered just putting them on a thermo switch so they kick on or off at temps but doing it manually isn't really a big deal... But then again I also have that massive Petersen style oil tank with 12-14qts in it --This is a pic without the fan shroud in place
Click to view attachment
This is an interesting layout. Do the fans get in the way of ventilating the heat out when the fans are off vs having the fans mounted to the cooler? How big is the inlet hole on the bulkhead?
For anyone interested, the oil cooler and fans in Eric's car appear to be the same cooler and fans I just listed for sale in the classifieds. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=369378
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 27 2024, 03:47 PM)
This is an interesting layout. Do the fans get in the way of ventilating the heat out when the fans are off vs having the fans mounted to the cooler? How big is the inlet hole on the bulkhead?
The fans don't seem to be in the way as most times I'm not even running them and it takes a bit to come up to temp... inlet pics:
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
@4camGT
get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery
How did you pull this one off?
Either way, very cool
get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery
How did you pull this one off?
Either way, very cool
QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 28 2024, 01:35 PM)
@4camGT
get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery
How did you pull this one off?
Either way, very cool
It was through my ex-Porsche colleague, Grant Larson. I was a Porsche designer in Weissach 1983 to 1990. Great years to be at Porsche!
Michael opted for a dual-pass Setrab cooler and three fans. Setrab doesn't offer a fan mount set up for that particular cooler so it's CAD/plasma table to the rescue.
Here's the start of the fan mount. The green lines indicate the edges of the cooler core, the outer shape is the cooler body. This just gets me started on the fan positions.
Now I need to work out how I want to mount this to the cooler. I think it'll be sections that'll fold over and serve as the attachment points.
Here's the start of the fan mount. The green lines indicate the edges of the cooler core, the outer shape is the cooler body. This just gets me started on the fan positions.
Now I need to work out how I want to mount this to the cooler. I think it'll be sections that'll fold over and serve as the attachment points.
Parts have arrived- Yay! I know Chris wants to get this off his plate- and out of his shop. I am looking forward to going to pick her up and get busy with the 3.6 implant. Thanks for everything Chris; I am proud to have you working on this oil cooler set-up as well as the seatbelts.
I'm working up a one-piece cooler/fan mount with built in front lower shroud. Typical At The Red Barn approach: Do as good a job as possible on the first attempt but be prepared for a do-over, once I see it in real life.
This design needs a couple mount holes moved and that lower shroud area widened.
Off to fab V2...
This design needs a couple mount holes moved and that lower shroud area widened.
Off to fab V2...
Looks NICE!
I prefer the fans on the cooler versus fans attached to the floor over the lovers.
I prefer the fans on the cooler versus fans attached to the floor over the lovers.
Not picking nits here but maybe add a few more holes to that backing plate so some air can go trough without having to hit the fans?
I see no benefit to only having those 3 holes for the fans. I'm guessing you are not trying to "funnel" air through the fans.
![popcorn[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
I see no benefit to only having those 3 holes for the fans. I'm guessing you are not trying to "funnel" air through the fans.
RE: comments about how the fan mount, clearance to the cooler, vents in the mount, etc:
Every pic I can find, and specifically the ones on the Setrab site, show the fans dead against the cooler with no other openings. Note that I spaced Michael's fans back .5".
I'm certainly not saying y'all don't have valid comments. I'm no expert so I'm thinking we'll go with what I've done, test it and if mods are needed, we'll go after them at that point.
I really do appreciate the input!
Every pic I can find, and specifically the ones on the Setrab site, show the fans dead against the cooler with no other openings. Note that I spaced Michael's fans back .5".
I'm certainly not saying y'all don't have valid comments. I'm no expert so I'm thinking we'll go with what I've done, test it and if mods are needed, we'll go after them at that point.
I really do appreciate the input!
QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 29 2024, 09:53 AM)
QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 28 2024, 01:35 PM)
@4camGT
get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery
How did you pull this one off?
Either way, very cool
It was through my ex-Porsche colleague, Grant Larson. I was a Porsche designer in Weissach 1983 to 1990. Great years to be at Porsche!
I like the flares and the green metallic. You don’t see many in that color.
Charlie
Outstanding work Chris; I know this is going to work great.
I am sure it will work great. I am thinking it may not even need the fans but having never been to CA I really don’t have a good grasp on temps year round
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