Got rid of my 86 944 turbo as it was a financial time bomb even though it was well cared for and pristine.....I knew what was coming.

Hi Dave glad you are here. It is just my opinion that if someone would make a stock look aluminum arm (just the way porsche did it for the 911 in 1974) The unsprung weight could be reduced and the piece would be a sales hit with stock owners in addition to the racers.

good point. It is our opinion that a stock 944 is the most economical Porsche track car anyone could own! AND no one minds abusing them!!!!!!!

Another good point. The turbo although a fabulous car was way to overbuilt with very expensive parts, and therefore bound to fail. NO ONE will be able to afford to restore a 944 turbo in ten years. One reason is that Porsche will not have many parts available for the car!!!!!!

[quote name='SGB' date='Jan 9 2007, 08:35 PM' post='845744']
--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Jan 8 2007, 07:49 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->


The ones under the cylinders. I think I have about 10 of them in a box myself (used)
[/quote]
I need a set for a 2.0. At least one of the mounting tabs to the heat exchangers is broken on each of mine. how mucho poesos?
I'm serious. Send pm if you don't wanna answer here.
[/quote]

Hi Scott club price 25.00

George,

It's not availability that's really the issue. It's legality. Most competition classes that allow for changes to the suspension like that, allow for considerably more than just replacing or reinforcing the trailing arm. And classes where it's not allowed, NOTHING is allowed. Stock is stock is stock. When it comes to rules that regulate the replacement or subsititiution of major suspension components (not counting shocks, sway bars, and the like), it's usually an all-or-nothing kindof deal.
You're either stuck with stock suspension arms andfactory located pick-up points, or you have complete freedom to design your own suspension... Not many classes have room inbetween...

A lot of folks have been playing with the reinforcement issues, and while the trailing arm itself does have weaknesses, I think the weakest link in the chain is the inner mounting ear, and not the trailing arm. Unfortunately, there's very little I can do in my class to reinforce that... Oh well...

And I can only immagine how much it would cost to fabricate (much less -buy-) an aluminum trailing arm for the 914...

-Josh2

dead on with the production costs someone with design and prototype manufacturing capability would have to take it on. I did think however that in sock classes you could do what the factory did ie weld in a chassis kit which reinforces the inner rear suspension attachment (dog ear)?

Depends... Many classes only allow what was available off the showroom floor (from the factory) in the US. Unless you're looking at vintage racing groups, it doesn't matter if Porsche did it to the Le Mans cars or not, as those cars couldn't be ordered from a dealership in the US. If you can provide any doccumentation that proves that chassis/suspension reinforcements were available from the factory to a car that was bought off the floor in the US, I will ***PAY*** for such proof with glee. No, really...

Even if it's a TSB that shows that Porsche authorized such modifications after delivery. That would be worth it's weight in 2.0L heads...

-Josh2

So, would you consider my S2 a car with the potential to appreciate? Its a high mileage but completely unmolested car. It really looks like a 50k mile car.

I mean we are talking 1 of 2000 coupes imported to the US. I'm sure cabs have more of a future, but I don't like convertibles in general. Its not like a 912E which is rare for the wrong reasons, the S2 has more engine, more brakes, more cowbell.

With that said, our so called "last six" here came from the factory with a 2.4 s engine, which would therefore entitle all six cylinder 914s to race a 2.4s in stock classes Josh??

that car is a lot of bang for the buck to be sure, and with inflation 10 grand for a used porsche will always be a bargain, but I cannot see that car nor even the cabriolet appreciating, as they were not uniquely Porsche, and that is air cooled engine behind the seats. the 912e will slightly but because it was such an oddity which no one can ever find parts to repair, this car will stay flat. (obviously no mile original cars will always appreciate buy maybe not as much as their current worth put into the bank and earning interest!

Hmmmm, if it can be doccumented that it was built by the factory, and sold as a regular "six", then maybe _that_ car could run as stock. However... if that doccumentation can prove that the factory delivered a standard (and not a special order) 914-6 with a 2.4L motor, then classes that have update/backdate allowances would enable the otherwise 2.0L -6 equipped cars to run the 2.4L...

Interesting...

So... The next question herr doctor, is what documentation do you know of that could give a competitive advantage to my 914 (I compete against E36 Bimmers in my class...)? I'm allowed to update/backdate to anything that came in/on a 914-4 from the factory. TSB's? proof that some US cars were delivered with aluminum suspension? 9:1 motors? Different gear ratios? Smaller gas tanks? Anything that makes the car lighter????? Already have a pair of early doors...

Thanks for the discussion by the way!

-Josh2

yes and then spend the rest of our lives trying to get them to approve the rule change! It is all in the driver anyway! I always said that the most competitive class is that of the 924 racing the 1.7 litre cars!

If the proof is in the paper, then it's a done deal. No rule change needed...

And true, it's mostly driver. But when you're going up against the best in the country, and they're puting down nearly twice the power in bigger cars, one looks for whatever advantage one can get. The 914 has the advantage in transition handling, but power/weight is a killer when the course opens up...

-Josh2

So, because it is a front engined water pumper it has a ceiling on value? You're probably right. I'd like to sell mine, but for the prices people want to pay I can't justify it. 83 NA's going for $2k and less have really damaged the value of my car, regardless of its condition.

you are dead on the money and that car has a lot of bang for the buck so my advice is to keep it! If not you will have to give it away (eight grand max) and take your loses and move forward.

944 = GREAT handling, oddball (water cooled front engined) underappreciated, overly abused, NARP (wel it's not a 911 so it's a NARP right?) low valued, cult like following .....HHMMMmmmmm

Perhaps you can tell I disagree with a "ceiling" on the 924/944 in the last 2-3 years these cars have slowed down on DE-preciating and for some reason the 924's are gaining in popularity! Anyone here tried to get a decent price for a 944 turbo engine? I have for about 2 years now! EVERY one I bid on on E-bay brings 1500.00 MINIMUM unless it has a scored wall or some serious issue. 944's are on the rise and I personally see them as the 914 of the future. Really though, do any of you see the 914 ever being werth over 15,000 for a 4 cylinder? Yes some sixes may bring bigger money but I doubt these cars will ever reach "collector" status and moneylike the 356 Speedster. In reality there is a ceiling on ANY standard issue Porsche be it 356,911,914,924,928,944 etc.Only the "special" models will ever achieve high dollar Barrett Jackson status. Just my humble opinion

good positive opinion except for the "automobile atlanta never again" scotty

I know that the turbo engines are going for a lot because they are rare and all worn out now and no one can afford a rebuild. Just like I said the turbos will all bite the dust in ten years because there will be scant new parts available and at a very very high price. As well because of the rarity, the used parts will evaporate also and no one will take on making expensive and sophisticated parts for this model. For example did you know that the electronic heating ac control has been discontinued? It was a cheaply made not to be rebuilt part to begin with and all of the used are mostly junk as well. What is one to do driving a steel roofed coupe with a hot glass back window and no air in the south???? PARK IT!

[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Jan 10 2007, 04:07 PM' post='846138']

good positive opinion except for the "automobile atlanta never again" scotty

In my defense George, I did have exclamation points there BEFORE you signed up. I have since changed them to the question marks. I'm giving you guys a 5th chance ! Hell I even got in on the flare buy Got any 951 engines for cheap?

[quote name='scotty b' date='Jan 10 2007, 04:19 PM' post='846144']
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Jan 10 2007, 04:07 PM' post='846138']

good positive opinion except for the "automobile atlanta never again" scotty

In my defense George, I did have exclamation points there BEFORE you signed up. I have since changed them to the question marks. I'm giving you guys a 5th chance ! Hell I even got in on the flare buy Got any 951 engines for cheap?
[/quote]

Hi Scotty. We do have a low mile engine (87 with just over 50,000) but do not know anything about it other than that and I think that the front pwr steering bracket is broken off and another one that was in a fire. So both probably have good parts on them. 500 for either.

I doubt very much if 944 turbos will be 914s of the future....they are just so expensive to maintain,even if you can get the parts.......Just take a look at the cooling system parts blow up it is a plumbing nightmare just to replace those parts will cost you about half of what the car is worth......I owned one and it was a wonderful handling road car quiet and composed able to leap long distances in a single bound.....but look out for the repair costs.

I know a clutch job can total an NA if the owner can't do the work. And that would be most owners. I suppose there will always be a core of ownership thats resourceful and can do their own work. Even with my S2, if I couldn't do the work, I would be eating major shit on it. But I'm in the same boat with my 914.

I had to hunt down a 944 driver door handle last month. I called most major Pcar junkyards and none of them had one and they said they leave as fast as they come in. New door handle = $250. Finally, I found a pair on ebay and closed a deal at $125 for the pair.

and what is really tragic, is that the cars never rust and we have whole cars never been hit in our "junk yard" with bad cylinder heads or transmissions or ratty interiors that we have purchased for 300 bucks, and no one will EVER want to restore them!!!!!!!!!!! Just like you said, a simple clutch job totals the car! And it is a Porsche imagine that. Seems these cars are going the way of the 924. (the 928 is as well)

If the motor on my S2 went totally belly up, which it almost did, I would start looking at a V8 conversion. An S2 or Turbo S is a great platform for a V8.

My car spun teeth off the timing belt when I started it one morning. I bent all 8 exhaust valves. This car also had the chain tensioner fail on the PO. He was a Dr, and bought a brand new head and cams from Porsche. His mechanic had the old head and made me a good price on the valves and loading my head with the valves. Otherwise, new valves = $98 each.

The belt had approx. 40k miles on it according to the PO's records. If Toyota can make a belt last 80k, why can't Porsche?

They are great cars as long as you feed them timing belts, PS racks, replace the stupid rubber clutch, motor mounts, and fix your leaky oil pan. Watch out for your door handles, the climate control ($$$), the and the sunroof gears.

I've always wanted to strip and build a 924/GT. Way cool car for the track.

Front engine. Rear Tranny. Read Mr. Elford's book about that combo.

Thats all 924/928/944/968's But yeah, the 924/GT is bitchin. You could build a nice replica from a 924S. Over on rennlist about 2 years ago, a guy gave away his 924/GT replica project for free.

All the 924/944/968 cars are dead men walking.

Ironically, the reason is because they are NARPs. Real Porsches get rebuilt when they wear out. 924/944/928 get sent to the boneyard at the word "Boo!"

Here's a photo for a fellow originally from CT! Enjoy!

Hope I can make my next 2.0 look as nice!

wow wow wow truly a man after my own heart!!!!!! (except for those low low profile tires and euro lenses!) I had a series of silver 76 models and always really loved the cars. Thanks for the memories!

He, He! ;>))

I got the nearly new Yokohama 205/50's for free with the perfect set of original Fuchs Alloys; being of the notoriously cheap 914 personality, I couldn't bear to throw them away and remount some TALL rubber, so there you are!

And, like the tires, the Euro Lenses came with the car when I bought it...

I actually had tracked down a set of mint NOS USA lenses (f & r), but never got around to installing them... I gave the new owner the choice, and he wanted the Euro lenses, so go figure!

Good to have you on the Site, George!

you know of course what a weird concours stickler I am ! Just say go to hell dr 914!!!! Great car.

God but I remember those toll booths on the Merritt Parkway I think the toll was .10 cents.... Still a very pretty road.

Ever since I threw my shoe out of the window of our 53 buick the merritt parkway makes my spanked butt hurt!

God but I remember those toll booths on the Merritt Parkway I think the toll was .10 cents.... Still a very pretty road.

Paul: You should connect with Kevin Dunn in Stratford; he now owns my 73 2.0 as pictured next to the old CT Turnpike. I'm sure he would enjoy talking 914's! I think he is on here under his name... maybe you can PM him.

Of course, I miss Max, but I think Kevin is the one to take over custody for the foreseeable future...

Well, your wrong about the 968. It is an ARP built in the factory at Stuttgart. The assembly line was shut down after the 1995 run to start building the 986 (Boxster).

Here is a picture of my "real Porsche"

[/quote]
Well, your wrong about the 968. It is an ARP built in the factory at Stuttgart. The assembly line was shut down after the 1995 run to start building the 986 (Boxster).

Here is a picture of my "real Porsche"
[/quote]

Yep, 968's all have the "S" in the VIN, and were built at Stuttgart...

But a lot of folks seem to find reasons to force themselves to like the 911's and Boxsters more... i.e. the recent article in Excellence on 911 vs. 986 vs. 968

BUT... mine says "Porsche" right on the engine cover, so that's gotta count for somethin'!!!

they stopped being porsche when they introduced water.... LOL

Well that and some damn fool decided that mid and rear engine placement

was not good enough.

Hey George nice to see you here, by the way hows my money? Sent alot of

it to you over the years, they don't call they don't write...

He, He!!!

Funny how now, ALL Porsches are water pumpers!

Let's discuss the relative thermal efficiency of liquid cooling vs. air cooling systems

No, let's not even go there! Just enjoy our variety of toys!

Oh, well, half the fun of the hobby is trying to define the differences!

[quote name='73Phoenix20' date='Jan 11 2007, 08:12 PM' post='847008']
[/quote]
Well, your wrong about the 968. It is an ARP built in the factory at Stuttgart. The assembly line was shut down after the 1995 run to start building the 986 (Boxster).

Here is a picture of my "real Porsche"
[/quote]

Yep, 968's all have the "S" in the VIN, and were built at Stuttgart...

But a lot of folks seem to find reasons to force themselves to like the 911's and Boxsters more... i.e. the recent article in Excellence on 911 vs. 986 vs. 968

BUT... mine says "Porsche" right on the engine cover, so that's gotta count for somethin'!!!
[/quote]

Granted the 968 is a fabulous car, so fabulous that they should have exported production to mexico, lowered the price and continued to make it. Too bad though even they have no resale. We sold a 50,000 mile cabriolet last year for 9500.00

air cooled, engine behind the seats made Porsche unique, and that uniqueness has been lost along with the simple quality of the build. Tragic.

Hi Paul! It has been spent on new products. Just wait to see what I am posting later today!!!!!!!! Thank you for hanging in there with your 914 all of these years. Our kind of guy!

I own a 944S2 but I still think real Porsches are air cooled. I also think the last real 911 was the 89 Carrera. But I do like the RSA's.

I totally agree. The last of the good Porsches was the 89 911 hands down and the best 911 ever built. 87 88 89 those are the ticket. As far as utilitarian the 944 s2 cannot be beat for the price if you are comitted to driving a Porsche, lets face the facts a very low mile 87 88 or 89 911 costs as much as a 99 911 these days and a great s-2 can be had for ten grand and that is over paying! So have one of each a water cooled and an air cooled and have the best of both types of Porsche!

Should have sent that car out West to sell. Going range for a low mile Cab is something like 20K

The 968s are a great open road car, like the 928, but give me me 2.0L teener on an autocross or DE track.

Nice car

I wouldn't have wasted my time on the merit parkway tho, there are too many really good roads around here

We are VERY spoiled here in Georgia with our excellent roads, high speed allowances by the cops and the very near to atlanta mountains. And of course Deals gap in Tennessee. PERFECT 914 roads (along with Road Atlanta.) Anyone who comes to the area please ask and I will give them a great route to drive.

I will be here saturday from 9:30 to 4:00 for tech advice and am always available on my cell phone at 404 308 5652 for those of you who need advice after hours. Don't get mad at your 914 call me for a easy solution.

George,
I am interested in a 911 as a daily driver (3 season, I will use my Jeep in the NY winters) and I am starting the process of looking for one...(you know me, I will be looking for an original, low mile,documented car) is it possible to get the AC to work on an 87-89 911? I like the body style of the 911 up until the 964.
your thoughts please
thanks
Joe

Are ya willing to lose at least 3 inches of Mr. Winkie?