Full Version: Starting a 1971 IMSA 914 Restoration
I just posted this in John's other thread, but he's out of town for the moment. I'm sure he'll respond soon though
QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Aug 5 2013, 10:15 PM) 
I just posted this in John's other thread, but he's out of town for the moment. I'm sure he'll respond soon though
Ah, great minds think alike. Thanks for the info.
Then with that said, safe travels John and get back to work on this beaut....
Update?
i had forgotten how rough john's imsa car was. quite the transformation.
k
k
Click to view attachment
i had forgotten how rough john's imsa car was. quite the transformation.
k
One of the original owners of this car and his son work with me. The second owner passed away years ago. Manuel Cueto refuses to retire and he is still building cars and going strong. He would love to see this car again so please let us know when you are available so we can meet.
QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Oct 27 2013, 07:41 AM)
i had forgotten how rough john's imsa car was. quite the transformation.
k
One of the original owners of this car and his son work with me. The second owner passed away years ago. Manuel Cueto refuses to retire and he is still building cars and going strong. He would love to see this car again so please let us know when you are available so we can meet.
I talked to Manual or his son when I had the car before John bought it
How cool would that be to meet him John!? 
I would love to meet the Manuel and show him and his family the car.
I'll get in touch.
John
wow! cant say much more.
People have been asking what the hold up is with me getting this car done.
It took me a while to realize but now I need to do something about it.
I don't like the way the front fenders line up with the front panel.
So I got some really nice used fenders from Bruce Stone so I can re-do them.
It would really help to have a NOS front panel as well, or one that is pristine from a car wrecked in the back half. The panel on there was sectioned horizontally from two different cars and is not dimensionally correct (I think, need to make a template to be sure).
I think I unconsciously did not want to go backwards to fix this but it needs to be done to be right.
John
People have been asking what the hold up is with me getting this car done.
It took me a while to realize but now I need to do something about it.
I don't like the way the front fenders line up with the front panel.
So I got some really nice used fenders from Bruce Stone so I can re-do them.
It would really help to have a NOS front panel as well, or one that is pristine from a car wrecked in the back half. The panel on there was sectioned horizontally from two different cars and is not dimensionally correct (I think, need to make a template to be sure).
I think I unconsciously did not want to go backwards to fix this but it needs to be done to be right.
John
I got this eMail from Sebring this Morning (look 1/2 Way Down) 
Sebring Hall of Fame
Class of 2014 Announced
The Sebring International Raceway Hall of Fame has announced its 2014 inductees.
Vic Elford, Wayne Taylor, Bob Tullius, Peter Gregg and Brumos Racing join the prestigious Sebring Hall of Fame's class of 2014 to be inducted the day before the 62nd running of the Sebring 12-hour classic.
Vic Elford won the 1971 Sebring 12 Hours co-driving a Porsche 917 with Gerard Larrousse. He also finished second at Sebring in 1968, the same year he won the 24 Hours of Daytona. Elford won class twice at the 24 Hours of Le Mans (1967, 73) and has 13 F1 World Championship starts to his credit
Wayne Taylor won the 1996 Sebring 12 Hours co-driving with Eric van de Poele and Jim Pace. He also finished third in 1994. Taylor has won the Rolex 24 at Daytona twice and also won the inaugural Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta in 1998. He currently campaigns a prototype in the new TUDOR Championship, driven by his sons.
Bob Tullius and his Group 44 team pioneered the concept of professional motorsports with immaculately prepared race cars and transporters. His first of 14 starts at Sebring came in 1963 at the wheel of a Triumph TR-4. Tullius won the GTO category in his Group 44 TR-8 and finished fourth overall in 1985 driving his Jaguar GTP prototype.
Click to view attachment
Sebring Hall of Fame
Class of 2014 Announced
The Sebring International Raceway Hall of Fame has announced its 2014 inductees.
Vic Elford, Wayne Taylor, Bob Tullius, Peter Gregg and Brumos Racing join the prestigious Sebring Hall of Fame's class of 2014 to be inducted the day before the 62nd running of the Sebring 12-hour classic.
Vic Elford won the 1971 Sebring 12 Hours co-driving a Porsche 917 with Gerard Larrousse. He also finished second at Sebring in 1968, the same year he won the 24 Hours of Daytona. Elford won class twice at the 24 Hours of Le Mans (1967, 73) and has 13 F1 World Championship starts to his credit
Wayne Taylor won the 1996 Sebring 12 Hours co-driving with Eric van de Poele and Jim Pace. He also finished third in 1994. Taylor has won the Rolex 24 at Daytona twice and also won the inaugural Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta in 1998. He currently campaigns a prototype in the new TUDOR Championship, driven by his sons.
Bob Tullius and his Group 44 team pioneered the concept of professional motorsports with immaculately prepared race cars and transporters. His first of 14 starts at Sebring came in 1963 at the wheel of a Triumph TR-4. Tullius won the GTO category in his Group 44 TR-8 and finished fourth overall in 1985 driving his Jaguar GTP prototype.
Click to view attachment
Looks like that 914 had just pasted the 935 in the background and was closing fast on that TR-8. 
I got the same email too!
Hoping to make some progress this holiday.
John
I have been wondering about the straightness of the chassis. In the front, the
fenders do not look quite right and one rear control arm needs 1.5 cm more shims
than the other to achieve the same camber. I wanted to check this out so I did
some measuring using advice from Rick and others.
First I got the car up on stands and leveled it as best I could. I was not worried
about leveling it along the length so much as side to side. I wanted to detect if the
car was twisted along its length. Using different thickness of plywood I was able to
compensate for the slope of my garage floor.
Click to view attachment
I leveled it across the pinch weld on top of the longs. My thought is get the middle
of the car level and see what each end does.
Click to view attachment
Sorry about the poor picture quality. I feel bad for not providing better quality given
how much you all have to pay to see this.
Click to view attachment
I checked the floors from underneath using a level attached to a tram gauge. The
tram gauge has fingers on the ends that bridge the convolutions of the floor pan.
Click to view attachment
After checking multiple times and places I got it as level as my primitive equipment
would allow. Now I set up a laser level at the front of the car. Using shims of
different thickness paper I leveled the beam.
Click to view attachment
Now theoretically the car and the beam are level to each other. Using a square and
a ruler I checked the distance down from each front suspension bolt to the beam. I
picked this bogus ruler because the laser line showed up the best on it. It was really
hard to see on my steel rulers.
Click to view attachment
What I was really interested in was the difference side to side. I measured the two
front control arm bolts and the two bolts holding on the cross beam multiple times
to be sure I got a consistent reading. I found that the most any pair was off side to
side was 4 mm!!! Two pairs of bolts were within 1 mm!!
I think if my leveling efforts were really bad they would all be off left to right by a
consistent amount. Or if the car was really messed up then the measurements
would be off by more than 1 cm.
I think this means the front end is ok. Now on to check the back end.
John
fenders do not look quite right and one rear control arm needs 1.5 cm more shims
than the other to achieve the same camber. I wanted to check this out so I did
some measuring using advice from Rick and others.
First I got the car up on stands and leveled it as best I could. I was not worried
about leveling it along the length so much as side to side. I wanted to detect if the
car was twisted along its length. Using different thickness of plywood I was able to
compensate for the slope of my garage floor.
Click to view attachment
I leveled it across the pinch weld on top of the longs. My thought is get the middle
of the car level and see what each end does.
Click to view attachment
Sorry about the poor picture quality. I feel bad for not providing better quality given
how much you all have to pay to see this.
Click to view attachment
I checked the floors from underneath using a level attached to a tram gauge. The
tram gauge has fingers on the ends that bridge the convolutions of the floor pan.
Click to view attachment
After checking multiple times and places I got it as level as my primitive equipment
would allow. Now I set up a laser level at the front of the car. Using shims of
different thickness paper I leveled the beam.
Click to view attachment
Now theoretically the car and the beam are level to each other. Using a square and
a ruler I checked the distance down from each front suspension bolt to the beam. I
picked this bogus ruler because the laser line showed up the best on it. It was really
hard to see on my steel rulers.
Click to view attachment
What I was really interested in was the difference side to side. I measured the two
front control arm bolts and the two bolts holding on the cross beam multiple times
to be sure I got a consistent reading. I found that the most any pair was off side to
side was 4 mm!!! Two pairs of bolts were within 1 mm!!
I think if my leveling efforts were really bad they would all be off left to right by a
consistent amount. Or if the car was really messed up then the measurements
would be off by more than 1 cm.
I think this means the front end is ok. Now on to check the back end.
John
I set up the laser level again at the rear of the car.
Click to view attachment
Then I checked the levelness of the floor of the car in the engine compartment.
Click to view attachment
I did this by comparing the measurements from side to side. They were almost
exactly the same given the crude method I was using. The beam is about 1 mm
wide and not sharply delineated making it hard to read exactly. I used a tape
measure and hung it down like a plumb bob.
Click to view attachment
Then I measured the inner and outer attachment points for the trailing arms.
Click to view attachment
The angle of the photos make the tape look really crooked. When I actually made
the measurements I took care to keep it vertical.
Click to view attachment
The outer attachments were off by 1/4 inch and the inners are off by 1/8 inch. I
am sure Hubert De La Metric is spinning in his grave that I mixed Metric and English
measurements in the same project, but I don't have a metric tape measure.
Being off 1/4 inch seems pretty good.
A member suggested I check the trailing arms to see if maybe one was bent.
I made this simple jig to check them.
Click to view attachment
The left and right differ by 5 mm at the hub. I need to calculate what this translates
into in terms of camber differences. I measured them repeatedly and always got the
same answer.
Now I am not sure if 5 mm at the hub equals 1.5 cm of shims?
What do you all think?
John
Click to view attachment
Then I checked the levelness of the floor of the car in the engine compartment.
Click to view attachment
I did this by comparing the measurements from side to side. They were almost
exactly the same given the crude method I was using. The beam is about 1 mm
wide and not sharply delineated making it hard to read exactly. I used a tape
measure and hung it down like a plumb bob.
Click to view attachment
Then I measured the inner and outer attachment points for the trailing arms.
Click to view attachment
The angle of the photos make the tape look really crooked. When I actually made
the measurements I took care to keep it vertical.
Click to view attachment
The outer attachments were off by 1/4 inch and the inners are off by 1/8 inch. I
am sure Hubert De La Metric is spinning in his grave that I mixed Metric and English
measurements in the same project, but I don't have a metric tape measure.
Being off 1/4 inch seems pretty good.
A member suggested I check the trailing arms to see if maybe one was bent.
I made this simple jig to check them.
Click to view attachment
The left and right differ by 5 mm at the hub. I need to calculate what this translates
into in terms of camber differences. I measured them repeatedly and always got the
same answer.
Now I am not sure if 5 mm at the hub equals 1.5 cm of shims?
What do you all think?
John
You never cease to amaze. Very impressive use of what you have on hand.
Thanks! I wonder how accurate all this cobbled together stuff is though.
What makes me somewhat confident things are good is that it seems unlikely that
the inaccuracies in my approach would all come together in pretty close to exact
agreement. If the laser level was off or the car level was off, I would think the
difference side to side would be big and not almost nothing.
I can only guess that Vince and Manuel started with a pretty straight car and the
cage they installed kept it basically straight through at least two accidents and all
the welding I have done to it.
John
Nice work. There is no reason a guy can't check your chassis without spending a fortune. All it takes is time and effort. You don't need a Celette for every little thing.
For an old race car that's not shabby. Your 1/4" = just over 6mm. The factory tolerance is 3mm or less. (three dimes thick) Add that to the 5mm from the hub and carry it out over the distance of the wheel center line, add some camber and I think that is what you are seeing when you say the car looks crooked.
I'm less concerned with the individual bolts in the front. In a cluster like that you can take an average and your ok. If your still wondering about the front check the torsion bar tubes to your laser line just behind the forward torsion bar cover. Centerline here is a consideration. If one torsion bar is pulled in your alignment will be wonky.
One final check you may want to make is the center line forward to back. You can take some #9 tie wire and hang it down from the suspension mounts, take a measurement at the top of the wire. take a level or something you are sure is straight and hang it from the wire. You will want three points down the car. mark center of the levels or what ever your using. Shoot your laser down the center line and see what you get.
The normal part of the process is to establish a datum line. We don't have datum in the 914 info link on the site. But if your upper body measurements are good you can just set the cross bars evenly and establish your own for this exercise.
They make old school centering gauges for this function but they are not necessary. With the cross bars set an equal distance from the floor pan shoot your laser down the outer end (front to rear) of the cross bars. This will show chassis twist. Then it's a matter of determining which corner is high. I doubt you'll see much difference. It looks like you found the issue already. My post is to bring to light the distance you can go with simple tools. Now repairing chassis issues is a completely different subject.
For an old race car that's not shabby. Your 1/4" = just over 6mm. The factory tolerance is 3mm or less. (three dimes thick) Add that to the 5mm from the hub and carry it out over the distance of the wheel center line, add some camber and I think that is what you are seeing when you say the car looks crooked.
I'm less concerned with the individual bolts in the front. In a cluster like that you can take an average and your ok. If your still wondering about the front check the torsion bar tubes to your laser line just behind the forward torsion bar cover. Centerline here is a consideration. If one torsion bar is pulled in your alignment will be wonky.
One final check you may want to make is the center line forward to back. You can take some #9 tie wire and hang it down from the suspension mounts, take a measurement at the top of the wire. take a level or something you are sure is straight and hang it from the wire. You will want three points down the car. mark center of the levels or what ever your using. Shoot your laser down the center line and see what you get.
The normal part of the process is to establish a datum line. We don't have datum in the 914 info link on the site. But if your upper body measurements are good you can just set the cross bars evenly and establish your own for this exercise.
They make old school centering gauges for this function but they are not necessary. With the cross bars set an equal distance from the floor pan shoot your laser down the outer end (front to rear) of the cross bars. This will show chassis twist. Then it's a matter of determining which corner is high. I doubt you'll see much difference. It looks like you found the issue already. My post is to bring to light the distance you can go with simple tools. Now repairing chassis issues is a completely different subject.
Thanks Rick!
Your idea for using a laser level was the key to doing something useful.
I will check the torsion bar tubes next. The idea here is that they need to be parallel
to each other and to the center line of the car, right? I think I can find the center
line using my tram gauge pretty easily. Maybe I will run a wire or chalk line down
the bottom of the car on the center line. It should be easy to measure the torsion
bar tubes to the center line.
To make sure I understand about your second suggestion, you are saying to
suspend 3 levels cross ways between three sets of suspension points lengthwise
down the car and see if they all line up horizontally. If I use equal length wires then
a straight car would show them all lined up in a flat plane under the car.
It the car is twisted lengthwise then I won't be able to use equal length wires and
get the levels to be level?
I might need to draw a picture of this procedure to get sure I get it.
John
Your idea for using a laser level was the key to doing something useful.
I will check the torsion bar tubes next. The idea here is that they need to be parallel
to each other and to the center line of the car, right? I think I can find the center
line using my tram gauge pretty easily. Maybe I will run a wire or chalk line down
the bottom of the car on the center line. It should be easy to measure the torsion
bar tubes to the center line.
To make sure I understand about your second suggestion, you are saying to
suspend 3 levels cross ways between three sets of suspension points lengthwise
down the car and see if they all line up horizontally. If I use equal length wires then
a straight car would show them all lined up in a flat plane under the car.
It the car is twisted lengthwise then I won't be able to use equal length wires and
get the levels to be level?
I might need to draw a picture of this procedure to get sure I get it.
John
QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 4 2014, 09:57 AM)
The idea here is that they need to be parallel
to each other and to the center line of the car, right?
Nice work John.
Parallel to each other - yes.
Parallel to the chassis c/l - no.
The torsion bars are higher at the front.
A measurement suggestion at the rear pickups - attach a bare trailing arm pivot shaft to both sides using no shims at the outer pickups. Then measure their inclination with a digital level which has been carefully zeroed. The factory built about one degree of negative camber into the pivot shafts.
Also - use the digital level to set up your trailing arm measurements. When the pivot shaft is level and hub c/l is at the same elevation, there should be approximately 1.5 degrees of camber at the hub flange.
OK, thanks Chris.
When you say digital level, do you mean like those used in digital camber gauges?
I need to pick one of those up.
John
can you find 4 points to measure and check for squareness on the diagonal? having never traveled this path, its just a suggestion. the transformation you've done is incredible with this sad old racer. love the interior light.
QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 4 2014, 10:50 AM)
OK, thanks Chris.
When you say digital level, do you mean like those used in digital camber gauges?
I need to pick one of those up.
John
I bought a Smartcamber gauge when they first came out. I also bought a 4 foot long frame with a pocket for the same level. They make a perfect combo for leveling the work platform and making wheel camber measurements. With the level removed from the frame it has numerous other uses around the shop.
There are other digital inclinometers available too.
Amazon has a number of inexpensive options.
QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jan 4 2014, 09:39 AM)
can you find 4 points to measure and check for squareness on the diagonal? having never traveled this path, its just a suggestion. the transformation you've done is incredible with this sad old racer. love the interior light.
I had the same thought while doing the major rebuilding of the car.
When I had the car upside down I did a lot of side to side and diagonal
measurements of all the suspension and other major points. Those all checked
out to within a few mm. Before welding the new front part on I checked this
several times.
I have done a bunch of diagonals across the front trunk and most check out ok
with one exception that I will post soon.
This project has taken a long time but I am still stoked about it.
I only work on it when I want to so as not to make it into a drag.
PS. I just ordered the SmartCamber gauge. Not sure why I waited this long to get
one. I need to get their string gauge next when I get further along.
John
with Chris. The front of the torsion bars are higher than the center section of the pan. So looking at the car from the side the distance from the datum line would be higher to the front than the center. You can still use the levels set at the same distance from the bottom of the car and sight down the plane to pick up visible twist in the chassis or a deflection off center. I wish I still had my old chassis manuals. I would have the drop down measurements. 
For those that don't know and are following along the datum is an imaginary line to use as a reference to determine various points on the chassis are true.
Rick, the datum is a horizontal line or plane under the car, right?
I found this reference with lots of auto measuring info:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zh94U0W_h...air&f=false
This is going to take a while to study...
John
I found this reference with lots of auto measuring info:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zh94U0W_h...air&f=false
This is going to take a while to study...
John
chassis4712912215
what a great read!
found some pics of the car...and results here
world sports racing prototypes
great reference sites.
cheers marty
what a great read!
found some pics of the car...and results here
world sports racing prototypes
great reference sites.
cheers marty
QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 4 2014, 05:15 PM)
Rick, the datum is a horizontal line or plane under the car, right?
I found this reference with lots of auto measuring info:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zh94U0W_h...air&f=false
This is going to take a while to study...
John
Yes, Nice find. That is very clear information.
Ordered the book from biblio for $17.56 plus shipping:
http://www.biblio.com/details.php?dcx=5521...gn=feed-details
Thanks for the links, Marty!
John
http://www.biblio.com/details.php?dcx=5521...gn=feed-details
Thanks for the links, Marty!
John
This is really good stuff John, and some lucid, well-thought ideas on how to check the shape of the chassis. In particular, I think it was wise to check that trailing arm to see how warped it was. Does this mean that the car is still within factory +/- specs on all of the suspension points? I know it's not perfect, but basically it's "good enough"?
Really happy for ya dude! Glad you're doing it right. Question - I noticed that car ran as a 914/4 in GTU for the first two outings. I wonder if Manuel or Vince has any details or pictures on how the car was setup that way? It appears it only ran once as a /6?
Really happy for ya dude! Glad you're doing it right. Question - I noticed that car ran as a 914/4 in GTU for the first two outings. I wonder if Manuel or Vince has any details or pictures on how the car was setup that way? It appears it only ran once as a /6?
Hey thanks George! I think so far the chassis and suspension points look good
enough that I think the setup and alignment will be good and it will handle well.
I have some receipts for new pistons and cylinders after the /4 outings. I think they
holed a piston during one of the Sebring outings. Eventually they switched to a /6.
Really looking forward to talking to Manuel about how they built and campaigned the
car.
I need to compile all the race history into one post.
Today I measured the front A arms to see if they were parallel as Rick and Chris
suggested. This was very easy to measure starting with the front:
Click to view attachment
And then measured the arms at the rear:
Click to view attachment
As closely as I can tell, they are exactly parallel! I did not move the pointers on
the tram gauge at all from the front to rear measurements.
This felt good to see.
John
enough that I think the setup and alignment will be good and it will handle well.
I have some receipts for new pistons and cylinders after the /4 outings. I think they
holed a piston during one of the Sebring outings. Eventually they switched to a /6.
Really looking forward to talking to Manuel about how they built and campaigned the
car.
I need to compile all the race history into one post.
Today I measured the front A arms to see if they were parallel as Rick and Chris
suggested. This was very easy to measure starting with the front:
Click to view attachment
And then measured the arms at the rear:
Click to view attachment
As closely as I can tell, they are exactly parallel! I did not move the pointers on
the tram gauge at all from the front to rear measurements.
This felt good to see.
John
So I did find some things wrong with the car through measurements and
comparisons with my other two 914s. One thing is the passenger fender
was "drooping" by almost an inch on the outside. This caused the front end to look
wrong on close inspection.
I made a template of part of the front panel from my red car and it was obvious
right away that something was wrong when I held it up to my IMSA car.
Click to view attachment
The big gap was closed up the way I had it welded. I cut it apart and tacked it the
way it should have been before taking this picture. Now it looks much more correct.
Notice the front panel is patched together from several pieces and some sheet metal.
Now you may be asking what kind of dumb ass welds their fender on in a way that is
off by an inch? Good question. Until you have done something like this before it is
not obvious to you all the possible things that can go wrong. It all seemed to fit
together nicely at the time. The fiberglass front bumper fit perfectly.
This only took about an hour to fix but much longer to understand. Next time I will
know much more about how to position each panel.
John
comparisons with my other two 914s. One thing is the passenger fender
was "drooping" by almost an inch on the outside. This caused the front end to look
wrong on close inspection.
I made a template of part of the front panel from my red car and it was obvious
right away that something was wrong when I held it up to my IMSA car.
Click to view attachment
The big gap was closed up the way I had it welded. I cut it apart and tacked it the
way it should have been before taking this picture. Now it looks much more correct.
Notice the front panel is patched together from several pieces and some sheet metal.
Now you may be asking what kind of dumb ass welds their fender on in a way that is
off by an inch? Good question. Until you have done something like this before it is
not obvious to you all the possible things that can go wrong. It all seemed to fit
together nicely at the time. The fiberglass front bumper fit perfectly.
This only took about an hour to fix but much longer to understand. Next time I will
know much more about how to position each panel.
John
And then there is the real puzzler. The driver side headlight is very tight in its
opening. I made a template of the opening from my red car and compared it to
this one. The passenger side looks very good.
Click to view attachment
The driver side is way off.
Click to view attachment
Lining up the template with the headlight bucket and drawing a line down the fender:
Click to view attachment
It seems the fender was mounted too close to the center line of the car when the
POs welded on a replacement fender sometime long ago. The headlight bucket is
attached to the front panel in exactly the stock location. The headlight buckets are
parallel to each other and the right distance apart.
Remember back in post 221 when I realized the front of the car was too narrow
and I used a porto power to jack it back into place? I was short by 1 cm from where
it should have been.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...1937&st=220
Looking at what I started with and how I pieced it back together it is not surprising!!!
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Anyway, now the question is, how do I fix it?
If I could get 3 mm more opening then the headlight would operate smoothly and
I think this would not be noticeable unless you really looked hard.
John
opening. I made a template of the opening from my red car and compared it to
this one. The passenger side looks very good.
Click to view attachment
The driver side is way off.
Click to view attachment
Lining up the template with the headlight bucket and drawing a line down the fender:
Click to view attachment
It seems the fender was mounted too close to the center line of the car when the
POs welded on a replacement fender sometime long ago. The headlight bucket is
attached to the front panel in exactly the stock location. The headlight buckets are
parallel to each other and the right distance apart.
Remember back in post 221 when I realized the front of the car was too narrow
and I used a porto power to jack it back into place? I was short by 1 cm from where
it should have been.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...1937&st=220
Looking at what I started with and how I pieced it back together it is not surprising!!!
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Anyway, now the question is, how do I fix it?
If I could get 3 mm more opening then the headlight would operate smoothly and
I think this would not be noticeable unless you really looked hard.
John
So the buckets are in the right place, but you still have clearance problems with the headlight and the right fender, correct?
If the left side marker and fender look correct, why not make a template of that and flip it over to see if the fender still needs to come out some? Then you could split it along the seam for the front trunk. Tack it in the back, and pull the front over to make up the 3mm difference. I really want to be there to help you!
If the left side marker and fender look correct, why not make a template of that and flip it over to see if the fender still needs to come out some? Then you could split it along the seam for the front trunk. Tack it in the back, and pull the front over to make up the 3mm difference. I really want to be there to help you!
I wish you lived closer George!
The shrinkage (Jerry) is inside the driver side headlight bucket. The distance
between buckets is ok. The distance between the fenders is off by 1 cm and that
1 cm is missing from the driver side bucket. Not sure if this makes sense to people.
I could cut through the front fascia within the bucket and try to jack the fender over
another 5 mm or so. Now that I have welded on a new outside fender it makes
the fender like a double walled box that I would be afraid to force over.
I could also make a dremel cut down the fender on the line I scribed and
narrow the fender by a couple mm. Then the fender would be too narrow but
I doubt it would be noticeable.
Worst case I cut the whole fender off and weld on the new one after cutting the
fascia and widening the front end.
John
The shrinkage (Jerry) is inside the driver side headlight bucket. The distance
between buckets is ok. The distance between the fenders is off by 1 cm and that
1 cm is missing from the driver side bucket. Not sure if this makes sense to people.
I could cut through the front fascia within the bucket and try to jack the fender over
another 5 mm or so. Now that I have welded on a new outside fender it makes
the fender like a double walled box that I would be afraid to force over.
I could also make a dremel cut down the fender on the line I scribed and
narrow the fender by a couple mm. Then the fender would be too narrow but
I doubt it would be noticeable.
Worst case I cut the whole fender off and weld on the new one after cutting the
fascia and widening the front end.
John
And the rest of youse! Quit lurking and post some abusive comments or ideas.
Now I got to go play with the new Ruf 911 c spec racer in iracing.
Now I got to go play with the new Ruf 911 c spec racer in iracing.
You're iRacing when you could be working?!
Great observation!
Thanks!
John
How does a known good hood fit? Check that now too so there are no more surprises. It will also show you where you can and cannot add space to get the headlight correct.
Great idea. I will try that.
Keep the ideas coming.
John
Keep the ideas coming.
John
Your car is coming along nicely. It will be up to Porsche standards in no time!
If you test fit the hood and front bumpers, does it still seem too narrow?
If you fix the driver's side bucket will it cause problems fitting the hood and bumpers back on??
It's all connected (eventually)
Keep up the great work
If you fix the driver's side bucket will it cause problems fitting the hood and bumpers back on??
It's all connected (eventually)
Keep up the great work
Good questions Chris.
I will try the hood and stock bumper to see how those fit.
I plan to see how the fairly rare fiberglass bumper that was used on the car fits on my stock cars just for a comparison.
I plan to take this slow and get it right this time.
I could cut all the damaged panels off and totally rebuild it to look completely stock but I think that would not be true to how it was when it raced. I like the subtle signs of battle damage, they just need to be a little more subtle..
John
I will try the hood and stock bumper to see how those fit.
I plan to see how the fairly rare fiberglass bumper that was used on the car fits on my stock cars just for a comparison.
I plan to take this slow and get it right this time.
I could cut all the damaged panels off and totally rebuild it to look completely stock but I think that would not be true to how it was when it raced. I like the subtle signs of battle damage, they just need to be a little more subtle..
John
QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 6 2014, 09:57 PM)
I like the subtle signs of battle damage, they just need to be a little more subtle..
John
Without the battle scars it just wouldn't be the same car.
patina. if you can align it, roll with it.
I think you guys get it.
When you see the car in person it has a certain feel to it and you can tell it has had an interesting history.
I am trying to save this look while still making a functional car out of it.
John
Fixing the driver side headlight bucket. The bucket is too narrow and the headlight
rubs when opening and closing. I am going to try the easy way to fix it. If that
does not work I can move on to more drastic measures.
Click to view attachment
The turn signal bucket area is also in really bad shape. The contour around the
turn signal has been flattened out and the metal is weak and cracked.
Click to view attachment
Start cutting out the bad metal at the bottom of the fender.
Click to view attachment
Cut a pie shaped piece out of the fender about 5 mm wide at the bottom and
tapering to 1 mm at the top.
Click to view attachment
Going to post this much as a test, last night I typed it all and the server died.
John
rubs when opening and closing. I am going to try the easy way to fix it. If that
does not work I can move on to more drastic measures.
Click to view attachment
The turn signal bucket area is also in really bad shape. The contour around the
turn signal has been flattened out and the metal is weak and cracked.
Click to view attachment
Start cutting out the bad metal at the bottom of the fender.
Click to view attachment
Cut a pie shaped piece out of the fender about 5 mm wide at the bottom and
tapering to 1 mm at the top.
Click to view attachment
Going to post this much as a test, last night I typed it all and the server died.
John
OK, that post worked so I will continue the story.
Used a LFH and some careful pounding to realign the side of the fender.
Click to view attachment
Shoot some tacks to keep it in place.
Click to view attachment
Check the headlight fit. It operates smoothly and the seams look even.
Click to view attachment
Check it with a ruler. The fender is straighter now and looks better.
Click to view attachment
It all looks good, to stitch it up.
Click to view attachment
Grind and sand it smooth. This kind of 90 degree seam is really easy to weld and
finish even in thin metal.
Click to view attachment
Now to tackle the hard part.
John
Used a LFH and some careful pounding to realign the side of the fender.
Click to view attachment
Shoot some tacks to keep it in place.
Click to view attachment
Check the headlight fit. It operates smoothly and the seams look even.
Click to view attachment
Check it with a ruler. The fender is straighter now and looks better.
Click to view attachment
It all looks good, to stitch it up.
Click to view attachment
Grind and sand it smooth. This kind of 90 degree seam is really easy to weld and
finish even in thin metal.
Click to view attachment
Now to tackle the hard part.
John
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