I have been going thru several of the threads regarding Subaru engine conversions to learn about the different ways people are performing the installation. From radiators to CV adaptors, there are several paths to take. Lets try to compile all that information into one thread. Anyone can contribute and I will take the information in the thread and update the top few posts with the details.

Here is a list of 914 Subaru related Threads:

Out with the old...in with the new...Britain's Racecar Development, Subaru Engine, Lotus Suspension! Time to go racing!

The Project Anklebiter Build Thread

Tony's Subaru Conversion Thread

Suby-engined rustoration

Zaney's Suby Rustoration Adventure

PorSTi Project Thread

It's official, Subaru EJ25 progress thread

Subaru 6 Cylinder EZ30R Conversion

My 914 EZ30R Twin Turbo Conversion

914 SVX swap, subaru 3.3 conversion

914 Subaru EG33 engine and WRX transaxle conversion, Finally finishing up

Subaru Engine w/Boxster transaxle, Perfect fix for 914???

Subaru Transmission into 914, DAMN that turned out good!!

Orange 75 project, Engine is in!

VOX Subaru Swap build

914 Subaru EG33 engine and WRX transaxle conversion

Cooling System


- Radiators

I have seen conversions with the following:

Griffin Radiators
1988 VW Jetta GL
VW Sirocco's
Honda Radiators

Not sure of the minumim size radiator you can get away with.

- Radiator Mounting/Shrouds/Fans

Here are a couple of radiator mounting pictures (with and without shrouds)

TonyAKAVW
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

DPCooper
Click to view attachment

HeaterGuy


Another
Click to view attachment

- Plumbing

Good Article on Material Choices

Good Thread on Hose Specs
914 engine conversion: water-cooled hose specs, Engine-to-radiator and water-air intercooler hoses

Engine Mounting

- Stock Subaru Mount Points

There are some very creative and effective mounting solutions out there. Here are a couple I have seen.

TonyAKAVW - U-shaped mount bar.
Click to view attachment

DBCooper - Modified Renegade Engine Cradle.
Click to view attachment


- Aftermarket Mounts

Outfront Motorsports makes a mount which bolts to the bottom of the motor.

HeaterGuy:


Small Car Performance also make a similar mount (might be the same as the Outfront mount, not sure). Link

This is from Amenson's thread.


He modified it to fit to the stock 4cylinder engine bar.

Transmission Options

There are several different approaches to the transmission/CV options. Here are a couple of threads with further details:

Subaru transmission installation, Now it's a reality!!!

Subaru Transmission into 914, DAMN that turned out good!!

Subaru Transmission successfully installed?, This awesome engine needs a Modern Transmission

Axles for Subaru Conversion, 914 hubs ok?

Axle questions for a Subaru Tranny, Another Subaru conversion..



- Adaptors/Flywheels/Clutch

For mating with a 901 transmission, there are three options that I am aware off.

1. Kennedy Engineering (http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm)
Package consists of an adaptor plate, flywheel, and pilot bearing.
- 215mm flywheel package for $540 (Clutch Package $431)
- 9" flywheel package for $540 (Clutch Package $354)
(Clutch Package includes Pressure Plate/Disc/Throw-out Bearing)
- Flywheel weighs 19lbs.

2. OutFront Motorsports (http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/clutch_flywheel.htm)
Offer a monolithic flywheel (i.e. 1 peice) in both 8" and 9" diameters with adaptor kit for $480
Also have a 2-peice welded flywheel for $440
Multiple clutch packages ranging from $110 to $250 with a 6-puck disc for $80.
Also mention a dual clutch disc set-up for a light pedal.
Flywheel weights between 15lb and 16lbs




3. Renegage Hybrids (http://www.renegadehybrids.com/)
Don't really break down the adaptor plate seperatly on their website.
Includes Billet Adapter Plate, Custom 9" Flywheel, Kevlar 9" Clutch Disc, Stage Two 9" Pressure Plate

Some random images of adaptor plates, I don't know which manufactures.
Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

- CV Joints/Output Shafts

There are replacement output shafts for the Subaru transmission to 914 CV joint.
Click to view attachment

There are the option to machine a set of 911 axles to mate up to the stock Subaru CV joints as shown by BIGKAT_83.
"The axles are 911. These are a large enough diameter to be machined on the transaxle side for a Subaru CV joint spline. This gives me a 911 large CV joint on the wheel end and the Subaru joint on the transaxle side. "


- Shifters/Shift Linkage

Intake System

Couple of places to get tubing:

http://www.stainlessworks.net

http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.com

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/

http://www.mandrel-bends.com

- Turbocharger Plumbing

- Intercooler Options

I have seen everything from stock Subaru intercoolers, air-to-air set-ups, and air-water set-ups.

DBCooper Air-Air


DBCooper Air-Water


Anklebiters Stock Set-up.


HeaterGuy Air-Air


Amenson Air-Air


Cool Air-Water inside the cabin.


- Flipped Intake Manifolds

Exhaust System

- Headers





- Mufflers

Electronics
- Stock ECU
- Aftermarket ECU
- Interfacing with the car

Oil System

- Different Sump Pans

Outfront sells a shorten oil pan for $270 which included a shortened pickup tube. They also list a mid-engine pan for $370, but I am not sure what the difference is.



Here is a nicely modified pan from TonyAWAVW with side kick-outs.
Click to view attachment

Bugat5Speed (http://www.bugat5speed.de/en/) offers a cast aluminum sump.
Details:
Some Product Details:
-Works with EJ 2.0, 2.2 and 2.5 blocks
-The sump is sandcasted like all our other parts.
-The capacity of oil is 4,25 litres (that´s only 0,25 less than original). If you shorten an original sump you loose about a 1 litre.
-It is very stabile (you can put a hydraulic lifter under it and lift the car), so nothing happens if the car is low and the sump hits the floor). If you have the original sump, that´s virtually impossible.
-The cooling properties are much better than with the original one. Water temperature is reduced by about 10 degrees Celsius, if you switch from original to the bug@5Speed sump.
-The pick-up tube inside the sump must be modified (shortened). But that´s no big deal. Anyone who does such a project will easily handle this task.
-The original dipstick can be used, but must be shortened a little.
- Overall dimmentsions are 275 x 320 x 120 mm (length, width, height).

*** One key point, these sumps will interfere with the stock motor mounts, if your using the RJES conversion. Will require modifications of mounts.





Small Car Performance also sells a cast aluminum pan. Link

Features
* Thickwall alloy aluminum for handling the worst conditions
* Stock Subaru oil capacity (4.3 liters) or 5.5 quarts when filled to the later Subaru level
* Shaped bottom for superior oil scavenging
* Finned exterior for heat dissipation
* Heliarc welded screened oil pickup
* Stainless bolts with aluminum washers
* Comes with o-rings for the oil pickup and for the stock or our flexible dipstick
* 4 5/16" total height saves over 2 inches when compared to the stock Subaru oil pan


- Dry Sump Set-up

Not sure if it is needed, but some have converted to dry sump set-up. The expense of this set-up can exceed $3K and is very complicated.

Fuel System
- Stock Tank
- Aftermarket Tank
- Fuel Pump
- Supply/Return Lines

Other/Misc.
- Parts that you will need but are not discussed

I will start going back and editing my posts with information that I have gathered so far. Feel free to contribute to make this a comprehensive list.

-Britain

Coming along nicely! Think you can include links to where you found the pics/conversations?

I would like someone to come out with a how to make the shifter assy.

Tony's pan has the extensions on the front and rear.

The outback pans are probably for a vw type install (taildragger) or the midengine. The sump will be better in each instance for the application. There are at least two custom aluminum pans available. One is bugat5speed it is cast aluminum. I'm not sure the bugat5speed pan will work with the smallcar mount as the aluminum pan looks too wide for the smallcar mount. Also be aware of the direction of the baffels in the pan to stop the oil from leaving the pickup on aceleration and braking and cornering.

Not a very good example but one guys attempt.
http://www.etischer.com/914cableshift.html

Search for dbcoopers pictures

CharlieW,

That is an interesting pan, I will add the details in that section.

-Britain

Lots of updates today. Enjoy.

-Britain

Anyone have some new stuff to add.

-Britain

Very interesting motor mount you added. Uses the stock bar/mounts? Im curious how the owner of that car likes that as with that power you would think you might need some better mounts.

Pretty good summary. I've been looking for a picture of the Rennedage mount. Looks like it uses the stock mounting points for the engine and trans.

Be real careful you have enough heigth on the turbo to drain the oil to the pan or you will pump oil out the exhaust and into the intake manifold and cooler.

That smallcar mount has been changed to work with the 914 bar by it's owner.
Smallcar puts subys in vanagons.

Here's what our smallcar engine mount looks like after fabbing it up for 914 use.



There isn't much progress lately on our project, but here's our thread link:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92942

Thanks for the pic.

The one difference I see between the Small Car mount and the Outfront Mount is that the Outfront mount actually bolts to there adaptor plate.

-Britain

Not a whole lot to contribute here, but I wanted to thank you for getting all this info together Britain!

One thing to check is the clubNARP forum for Subies: http://z8.invisionfree.com/ClubNARP/index.php?showforum=20

Thanks again, this is very useful!

I'd like a link or someone who knows the subaru drivetrains to give a breakdown on the motors. Basically the HP in stock form & the benefits of each motor. REally considering a subaru swap at some point. Would like to keep an eye out for a good setup. I will hit up some different subaru forums. Figured this might be the place to have the breakdown for the motors though

Wikipedia.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Subaru_engines


RenegadeHybrids

Outfront motor sports

http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/motor_matrix.htm

I am sure there are more.

-- brett

Britain thanks for the work. Nice to see all of this in one location

intersting site for older JDM motors

http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/wrx.html

Tranny specs

http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/trans.html

speed calc

http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/tyres.html

I didnt check the early pages.. sorry if duplicate

from Vin plates

http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/engine.html

and my build thread..

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...947&hl=epic

front mount turbo, engine cradle by BOB.... suby tranny, soon to be cable shift..

Been a long haul but moving again,

What is everyone using for electronics??

How do they interface with the 914??

This is a late reply, but I thought I'd chime in.

I'm coming to the party as a Subaru guy with an extra EJ25 engine sitting in my garage, looking for a chassis.

Since you're in Oregon, you have a lot of great Subaru resources close to home. When you're ready to have the engine talk, I'd suggest Cobb Tuning Surgeline up in Tigard.

A stock EJ25 engine is good for just under 300 whp (AWD) and ~325 wtq with a medium-sized turbo and a good intercooler and exhaust setup. Running it 2WD drops the driveline loss from 24% to ~15%, so more like 325 whp. Tuning with E85 can also help, both in terms of torque and turbo spool.

A mildly built engine with forged pistons can put out 300-400 whp in an AWD Subie. It all depends on how big of a turbo you want to run and how much lag you can stand. Again, if you have the fuel pump and injectors to flow enough fuel, E85 can really be a great fuel for these engines, better than race gas.

For example, in my daily driver Legacy GT, with a tune for 92 octane pump I can get 290 whp with 310 wtq at 18 psi boost. With E85, the tuner can tune it for 21 psi boost, 310 whp and 350 ftlbs. The torque curve also shifts about 700 RPM to the left with E85, due to quicker spool.

I'm not sure what else it affects in a 914 build, but the Cobb AccessPort is the go-to ECU programmer for the Subaru folks. If you're keeping the Subaru ECU connected to the engine, the AP might be the way to go. I'm not sure what needs to be deactivated in the Subaru ECU to allow it to run just the engine (probably a lot) but it might be easier than building a tune from the ground up with an aftermarket ECU.

Hey Duke...here is my Subaru conversion thread. I have a dyno date in 2weeks at Cobb Surgeline.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...=2&t=113579

Has anyone done heat with a suby swap?

One of THE most in-depth subaru N/A conversion threads out there. I know I used this thread several, several times during my build.

Tony's Subaru Conversion Thread

(bloody hell those smilies to the left are distracting)

Here's some quick info regarding suby transmissions and clutch assemblies.

There are two main types of suby clutches - "push" and "pull". Relative to the stock configuration, a "push" clutch has the slave cylinder mounted on the engine side of the clutch fork and actuates toward the driveshaft end. The "pull" clutch has the slave cylinder mounted near the center of the transmission and actuates toward the engine. The type of clutch actuation is dictated by the combination of the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, clutch actuation fork, and the slave cylinder. All of these items must be matched in terms of fork actuation direction. A transmission can be converted from pull to push by flipping the pull slave cylinder and using a kit - some bellhousings may have bolt holes for using either type, but I don't believe this to be the case. Note that cable-actuated clutches actuate in the "push" direction.

So here's a quick cheat sheet for transmissions and clutch actuation direction. From the factory on cars sold in the USA,
1.8, 2.2L engines came with cable-actuated clutches (Impreza -'01, Legacy -99?)
2.5L non-turbo engines came with push-style hydraulic clutches (Legacy 96+, Impreza 98+, Forester all years)
2.0L turbo engines came with pull-style clutches (02-05)
2.5L turbo engines in the WRX came with push-style clutches (06-09)
2.5L turbo engines in the STi came with pull-style clutches (04+)

You cannot mix and match flywheels with clutches across these (e.g. no WRX clutch on an N/A flywheel, no push WRX clutch with a pull WRX flywheel, etc). You also cannot use an STi fw/clutch/pp in a non-STi bellhousing without some grinding, and you still must use a pull-style clutch fork actuation. Why does this matter? Two reason: power and packaging.

Due to the proliferation of WRXes and the relative scarcity of high-power N/A cars, there are basically no cheap or livable options for N/A clutches that will handle real power. If you're not going to be making more than realistic power for a 2.5L N/A (say, about 200 lb-ft), you can use any clutch combination you want. If you are going make more power, you can either shell out BIG bucks ($800+) for an N/A clutch/fw/pp kit, or you can find a way to make a WRX or STi clutch work.

So why not just grab a WRX clutch/fw/pp and stick it on any old gearbox? The gearbox might not have the bosses required to mount a pull-style slave cylinder. Why not just use a WRX transmission? The pull-style clutch actuation mechanism is physically large, and it's on the top of the transmission, right where the 914 has lots of metal. The push clutch cylinder is smaller, lives closer to the engine where there's space, and can be more easily made to fit inside the 914 transmission tunnel without cutting. The solution, then, is simple - you need a WRX clutch with a push-style clutch actuator. Luckily, that's what Subaru moved to with the WRX in '06+. You can use a stock N/A slave cylinder and clutch fork with an 06+ WRX flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, and throwout bearing!

This matters because WRX boxes are expensive (easily twice the cost of an N/A box of the same year), rarer since the N/A transmissions have been around since the early '90s, and basically identical in terms of capability when used in a 914. 06+ WRX flywheels aren't terribly cheap yet, but prices are coming down all the time. '06+ transmissions, however, are still really expensive.

What this means is that, when you're doing shopping, you must consider the transmission, that transmission's clutch actuation direction, and then what flywheel/clutch/pp combos match that direction. You can work backwards or forwards, but they must necessarily follow in that direction unless you want a headache.

Thanks for the link, Britain. I've been looking for the thread on your project. I've seen your 914 at the ORPCA AX events and heard about the project at Surgeline when I had my Legacy in for tuning. I'm very curious to see it hit the road.

Jay

Something that may be useful for guys considering a suby transmission or have a conversion already...

I was trying to resolve an issue with my suby trans where I could hear a bearing noise coming from the tail near 5th gear. I started talking with Bremar about how to determine the correct oil level after doing the 2wd conversion. They said not to rely on the dipstick for oil level. They have seen problems where the suby trans gets used in a mid-engine setup and is mounted at a slightly different angle than in the original suby. The result can be a dry 5th gear which they have had to replace along with bearings. The solution is to tap a plug in the case in the tail section high enough to bath the gearset at the tail. When filling with oil, open the plug and fill until oil comes out the plug hole.

I did what they suggested in my suby trans, tapped a plug about 2-3 inches up from the bottom near 5th gear. I ended up with about 7 qts of oil which is almost double the suby specification. Doing this resolved the bearing noise which I now know was due to not enough oil in the trans.

Hey Duke...are you in the Portland/Hillsboro area? If you are nearby, you are welcome to come by anytime to check it out. I should have it running by this weekend or next week.

-Britain

Great info there sawtooth.... Thanks
Everyone doing a transaxle conversion should be awhare of this. In the stock Subaru the engine and transaxle sits at very different angle than it does when mounted in the 914.

Bob

I live over on the East side suburbs, but I work in Wilsonville. I'd love to check out the SBII some time. I'm starting to hunt Craigslist for 914 rollers...

Another thing to take into consideration in higher-hp builds is the "front" differential. In almost all of the transmissions thenewwazoo listed, the "front" differential is open, which would lead to 1-wheel drive in some situations. The STi 6-speed has a helical front differential that's tuned more for pulling the car through corners. It might be an interesting effect when applied in a RWD configuration.

There are differentials on the market that can be added to the WRX and Legacy GT 5-speeds and the 2007-2009 Legacy GT spce.B 6-speeds, but that would involve cracking the transmission. Still, might be worth it compared to the $ of a high-demand STi transmission.

The down side of the six speeds besides cost ,,, they are considerably longer,,, I heard there is a shorter version coming or here now and that the gearing is considerably shorter..lots of shifting or jumping of gears. I could possibly see shortening 4th possibly for a track car.. good pop coming out of corners but on the street the 6 speed might be more annoying than just dropping in an after market lsd 5 speed..

I'd like to see what you've come up with. How about a picture?

Geoff

I'm just making a judgment call here, I don't know exactly where bremar puts their inspection plug. But from the description I got, this spot makes sense.

A little hard to see with it in the car. It's the brass plug right in the center of the picture.
Click to view attachment

Here's a shot of another trans with the red dot about where I put the inspection plug. This location baths about 1/2 of the drive shaft below 5th gear set which should get good coverage on 5th gear above. It's a lot more oil than an original suby setup, but after talking with Bremar they didn't feel like too much oil (within reason of course) would hurt in this case.
Click to view attachment

Thanks for this info. I'll have to crawl under my car to gander at what's-what to better understand your suggestions.

Did you consider installing the inspection plug on the rear plate instead of the side of the trans case? That would avoid getting drilling/tapping metal chips in the gearbox. I've already completely rebuilt my gearbox and really don't wanna tear it apart again!

Of course, the chips would be relatively-soft aluminum and could be minimized by glopping grease on the drill bit and tap. Any thoughts on that?

Geoff

Geoff that sounds like a good idea to me. I had the mid section separated from the trans at the time I tapped it so I was able to keep things clean. I'll probably just tap the plate like you are suggesting for my rebuilt trans when I swap it in.
- Dean

I just saw this, sorry. That's not a Renegade cradle, it's the first one we made. At one point someone commented that it looked like a Renegade (though better made) but I don't know because I've never actually seen a Renegade cradle. So this may look like one, or it may not, I don't know.


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doppelpost

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some wiring tricks.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=199291