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type11969
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Aug 8 2006, 10:42 AM) *

QUOTE(type11969 @ Aug 8 2006, 02:25 PM) *

See, its that "think everything will be fine" that always worries me. And for only a few more hours of work, is it worth the doubt? Thats the way I think. I certainly understand the hesitation though, it does add some complexity and cost, and in this case, with a recent rebuild I suppose it may be overkill.

Checking sideplay with the piston on . . . never thought of that. But I was always removing the pistons anyway.

-Chris


Chris, just to clarify my position, I totally get what you are saying and do not feel that you are out of line at all. I was just trying to offer a second opinion for consideration and my hope was that it not at all detract form your experienced oppinion . biggrin.gif thumb3d.gif

Pete, now I remember. At least you know what the insides looked like. With the 1.7 injectors, are they flowing enough fuel? Could it cause a lean running condition?


Experienced . . . no, I just slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night. biggrin.gif I've torn down and rebuilt a few t1 and t4s, not a great deal of experience. I do have much more faith in a rebuild that someone did themselves than having it done by a no name shop though, so I would say that there is a good chance that the internals of this engine are in good shape. Pete, I didn't realize before that you rebuilt it yourself. You know how you assembled it, if you measured everything up, the bottom end should probably still be good. And, if you have notes from the build on what the clearances were, we can measure and check vs. the old ones to see how much wear has accumulated. If the stuff we can easily see (endplay, sideplay) is within spec, I don't see a reason to split the bottom end unless it is leaking from the split line.

Oh yeah, I have some injectors from a stock 5.slow. I was going to use them in a MS install on a 1.8 in my teener, but that isn't going to be for a while. I don't know if they will be compatible with the stock FI, but they do fit nicely in the runners. I did have them idling on my warmed over 1.8 with MS on the bench. Anyway, if you need some injectors that flow some more fuel, you are welcome to try these out. I may even have four extra (got 8 off ebay but probably lost one by now).

-Chris
ptravnic
Thanks Chris. Bring the 1.8L injectors along - just in case.

I'll need to review Jake's video. We spec'd things out according to his "gospel". Not sure if I still have the notes though... The engine has been strong, inside *should* be proper...

-pt
rmital
QUOTE(type11969 @ Aug 8 2006, 11:24 AM) *

Experienced . . . no, I just slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night. biggrin.gif

av-943.gif ...too funny...needed that.

work is very boring today...would rather be home with my head stuck inside my engine compartment searching for vac leaks....

back on topic...
Pete's a great guy; has taken lots of time out of his schedule to help me make adjustments to my 914. Any help anyone can give us with this effort would be appreciated. I'm looking forward to this one....
ptravnic
awe shucks... Hopefully everyone can get something out of this lil adventure. If nothing else, those that are afraid of banging on their cars will learn what they can bang on and what they need to cradle like a baby... Some parts are raw metal and can be beaten on, some parts require very fine tuning...

We seem to have some good hands on deck for this one. I spoke w/my father - he may fly in town for that w'end. He and I have had quite an adventure working on these lil suckers for the past 15yrs... Damn, that's half my life!!!
Leo Imperial
If all else fails I've got a set of 44's to get you goin'
Let's see what happens... I think I'll bring a 4' pipe wrench for the fine tuning.

Oh and I also have a set of 1.8 injectors :unsure condition: :fire:
type11969
QUOTE(ptravnic @ Aug 8 2006, 11:30 AM) *

Thanks Chris. Bring the 1.8L injectors along - just in case.

I'll need to review Jake's video. We spec'd things out according to his "gospel". Not sure if I still have the notes though... The engine has been strong, inside *should* be proper...

-pt


They aren't 1.8L injectors, they are Ford 5.0L v8 injectors that came stock on those crappy 80s mustangs. They fit perfectly in the stock injector bungs, just don't know how they will work with stock FI. Worked fine with MS (at least on the bench while idling).
ptravnic
Hmmm, maybe we'll have time to try a couple diff sets of injectors... I know my 1.7L injectors work fine, they should be able to handle the job if I bump the pressure a bit (even if it is soooooooo 1999 smile.gif ). I may have some genuine 2L injectors, will check my FI stash this w'end.

Also a theory my father though up - maybe a broken ring? That could be causing the oil leak and be causing the loud valve/loss of compression... I have a new set of rings and will bring it along just in case this ends up being the problem.

Good news - my father will be coming for the fun the w'end of the 26th!!! Booked the flight from Nebraska today. I'm v happy about this b/c he's got many (MANY, MANY) more years of experience than me and together we do a pretty good job of trouble shooting. He's excited to meet up w/our lil group of fellow diseased 914 owners...

beerchug.gif
nycchef
glad to here your dad is coming. give me a call and lets work out sat delivery schedule.
i love porsche
this should be a fun day, ill probably have to leave around 3 though..cause ill have work at night
type11969
Dunno if this event is going to spill over to Sunday, or if we are still working in Hazlet, but if you guys are interested in taking a break and beating the shit out of some new Mazdas for free, this is going on:

https://www.zoomzoomlive.com/index.htm

Englishtown is apparently only a half hour away from Hazlet. I signed up for the last slot on Sunday.

-Chris
ptravnic
QUOTE(type11969 @ Aug 11 2006, 09:58 AM) *

Dunno if this event is going to spill over to Sunday, or if we are still working in Hazlet, but if you guys are interested in taking a break and beating the shit out of some new Mazdas for free, this is going on:

https://www.zoomzoomlive.com/index.htm

Englishtown is apparently only a half hour away from Hazlet. I signed up for the last slot on Sunday.

-Chris



Venue is in Lyndhurst (big facility w/a lift...). Sunday spill over is a possibility but we're hoping to get things wrapped up on Sat.

Mazda event could be fun if we are able to wrap things up on Sat...

-pt
type11969
Bout an hour from Lyndhurst to Englishtown. Might as well sign up if you are interested, no penalties if you don't show up!

-Chris
ptravnic
Car is now @ Movietime in Lyndhurst. Thanks Rich & Ray! Also, thanks Nate for the place in Hackensack. We just got lucky and there ended up being space in Lyndhurst = very convenient.

See the pics of the fresh heads below - a bit fuzzy b/c they were taken w/my cell phone's camera...

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment
So.Cal.914
Are those 1.8 heads? Bus?
Dr Evil
Definetly not originally 2.0
ptravnic
They are 1.8L heads. Built off AMC cores. 2.0L are way too expensive for this project - spirited street driving is the most abuse this car will ever get.

Prob going to start the disassembly tonight @ Movietime. Would like to take it to a spray n wash to get as much muck off the underside as possible - will make tracking down the oil leak easier. Will likely get the heat and exhaust out in short order, maybe get all the cables off and fuel lines plugged tonight too.

Ray & Richie - U guys still up for a couple hrs of work this eve?

-pt
nycchef
Ray & Richie - U guys still up for a couple hrs of work this eve?

i'm in, do you need a ride?
turboman808
What time are you guys gonna be there?
ptravnic
I can prob get out of work a lil bit early and if Richie can pick me up en route then I think we could get there around 6. That gives us a few hours which may be enough to get the engine dropped.

Let's use this post to coordinate this eve's event.

-pt
rmital
Let me check with MovieTime to make sure the coast is clear....or at least the path to the lift and garage is clear.

Anthony wanted me to submit a schedule for next week so he could "pen" Pete's car on the schedule for lift time.

Friday, August 25...probably from 6:00pm till - late.
Saturday, August 26...10:00am - late.
Sunday, August 27...10:00am - 3:00pm.
ptravnic
Those times look good. Even if we don't have the lift this evening - we could jack the car up and start removing the heat, exhaust, etc... I like the idea of disassembling earlier - that way if there's any surprises we have more time to react.

-pt
rmital
...we are good to go for tonight...6:00pm.
ptravnic
Richie - Does this work for you?

Nate - maybe you can stop by?
ptravnic
Phase 1 Complete...

Engine drop went fairly smooth. Header needed a alittle TLC and a CV bolt didn't want to cooperate but we managed to Git Er Dunne...

MANY THANKS Ray, Rich, Nate, and Leo (although Leo wasn't "officially" there wink.gif ). Also, the guys @ Movietime are top notch. "We'll just move the engine around w/the fork life...".

Next time we meet up (Friday 25-Aug) we'll take off the sheet metal, separate the engine/tranny and get the heads off.

Saturday, 26-Aug will be reassembly. A safe time estimate is to allow about 2X as long it took to remove for the install... So maybe 6hrs of fiddling...

In true 914 form, we did end up using Jack Stands... Must admit, I have fallen in love with the lift grouphug.gif
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
rmital
What better way to spend a Monday night....learned lots....plus fun in the process.

I think Anthony (MovieTime owner) stopping by at 10:00pm; firing up the fork lift to move the motor around was great...thank God for small favors...
ptravnic
QUOTE(rmital @ Aug 15 2006, 11:10 AM) *


I think Anthony (MovieTime owner) stopping by at 10:00pm; firing up the fork lift to move the motor around was great...thank God for small favors...


Anthony for President!
nycchef
hey guys. leo wasn't there. i never saw or spoke to leo. he could'nt have been there cause he went straight home from work. must have been someone who looked like leo, cause if leo was there he would have sold me his engine. so see. could,nt have been leo
turboman808
Yeah that was fun and almost made me thing I could pull my motor rather easy.


The shop is absolutely amazing. Without a doubt we are the luckiest people in the world to get to use it.

I'll have to bring some cases or mountain dew and redbull to replace what I take.


There was a really cool VW Van there also. Not sure whos it was though???
Leo Imperial
Sounds like you guy had some fun confused24.gif

Richie everything is for sale... The women how much for the women???

Looks like since I have not been able to stop in on my way home and wrench as of late my wife fully understands my need for a day on the 26th :winkwink:

I sure am glad Richie has offered to BBQ thumb3d.gif
nycchef
subtle as a flying mallet leo. o.k there will be food. put a price in the 1.8. that bus engine creeped up again. what i know (anyone feel free to chime in) flat four built out to 1900 and something cc with a 9.5 -1 compression ratio. done by powertech in rockaway n.j.
ptravnic
QUOTE(Leo Imperial @ Aug 15 2006, 11:34 PM) *

Sounds like you guy had some fun confused24.gif

Richie everything is for sale... The women how much for the women???

Looks like since I have not been able to stop in on my way home and wrench as of late my wife fully understands my need for a day on the 26th :winkwink:

I sure am glad Richie has offered to BBQ thumb3d.gif



Leo - U were RIGHT! One of the CV bolts decided it didn't want to play nice... Ended up using the chisel technique... Your fancy shmancy special CV bolt tool would have made a difference... We'll be using a set of Dr Evil's cv bolts for the reassembly so thankfully the standard 6 sided allen wrench will work...

Also, I'm thinking of having a set of honed 96mm cylinders on hand just in case... Allen @ KOS suggested you may have a line on a set of cores. A 1.7L or 1.8L core could be bored out to 96mm. Any ideas on this? We'll probably be safe w/the set that is on there but just in case there's some funny wear in there it couldn't hurt (except the wallet) having an extra set on hand. Could always use them in a future rebuild...

-pt
ptravnic
QUOTE(nycchef @ Aug 16 2006, 09:05 AM) *

subtle as a flying mallet leo. o.k there will be food. put a price in the 1.8. that bus engine creeped up again. what i know (anyone feel free to chime in) flat four built out to 1900 and something cc with a 9.5 -1 compression ratio. done by powertech in rockaway n.j.



My $0.02 on the engine is that if that engine the guy wants to trade you is truly a bus engine then STAY AWAY from it. Plus, a 9.5 to 1 CR is awefully high - might be tough to use standard octane on it. If Leo's rebuilt 1.8L is build up and pushing out 130HP there's no need to look any further.
tod914
If you want my experiences' with PowerTech, PM me. Certianly not favorable.
Dr Evil
Looks like everyone is saying the same thing as me about the bus motor, Rich.

something seems fishy splat.gif
ptravnic
Bus motor = stromberg.gif


btw, I just realized the poo emoticon is named after Steve Stromberg. I recall on Pelican site a couple years back - there were some spats... Funny stuff (unless you got ripped off, then not quite as funny).
ptravnic
Okie Dokie campers:

-The heads are getting cc'd by KOS Motorcars in Montclair (Leo - their regular machine shop guy backed out of doing it so Allen said they'd take care of it themselves even though they havn't really done it in about 15yrs. We *could* do in on Sat but I'd rather it be out of the way already - save us the time.

2 Questions about tools:

1) Bought this for measuring deck height. Is this the right tool?

Performance 0-6" Stainless Steel Dial Caliper
http://www.toolking.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=2479

2) Bought this lapping compound:

Powerbuilt Valve Lapping Compound Fine #280 grit (half way down the page)
http://www.powerbuilttools.co.nz/powerbuil...driveetrain.htm



I'll be pm'ing the kind hearted souls that said they were going to lend a hand to get a tentative headcount.

4 more days til the car vrooms again!

-pt


type11969
The toughest part about setting the deck height is torquing the cylinder down to spec without the head. I was going to try to make something to do this since I will need it in a few months, but with helping my rents move, I just haven't had the time. I will be there this weekend though!

-Chris
ptravnic
I thought there was a specific torque setting and that was all there was to tightening the head over the cylinders?

Will be watching Jake's video at some point this week so maybe my question will be answered there...

Looking forward to meeting you face to face Chris.

-pt
turboman808
QUOTE(ptravnic @ Aug 21 2006, 05:30 PM) *

I thought there was a specific torque setting and that was all there was to tightening the head over the cylinders?

Will be watching Jake's video at some point this week so maybe my question will be answered there...

Looking forward to meeting you face to face Chris.

-pt


Need a laptop with internet access and a dvd player for when things get tricky.
nycchef
het pete whats the schedule? i'm up for the lot. on vacation this week let me know if you need anything. good news just sold the 912 engine on ebay. get to rebuild mine next.
type11969
Ahh, yes, there is a specific torque setting and that is all there is (well, except the tightening pattern) to tightening the head to the cylinders . . . but when you are measuring the deck height, the head is off. And without torquing the cylinders down, you will not get an accurate deck height reading. Thus the problem . . . I'll see if when have any small square tubing at work that I can drill some holes in, that might be enough.

Chris
ptravnic
QUOTE(type11969 @ Aug 21 2006, 10:02 PM) *

Ahh, yes, there is a specific torque setting and that is all there is (well, except the tightening pattern) to tightening the head to the cylinders . . . but when you are measuring the deck height, the head is off. And without torquing the cylinders down, you will not get an accurate deck height reading. Thus the problem . . . I'll see if when have any small square tubing at work that I can drill some holes in, that might be enough.

Chris



Good idea on torqueing (sp?) the cylinders sans heads by using an oversized washer (small square tubing).

Nate - unfortunately, the Jake video I have is VHS - 5yrs ago that's what Jake was selling...


-pt
i love porsche
so whats the schedule for this week?
type11969
The plan for the square tubing was to have to holes drilled into it to match the gap diagonally between two of the head studs, then you can tighten against this "beam" which will push down on the cylinder to head mating surface and will effectively mimic the cylinder head. You don't want to try to clamp down on just the fins, they will crack!

I was really hoping to find some thick walled tubing to weld into the holes drilled in the sqaure tubing . . . this would reinforce the joint and also provide enough length so that when you do clamp down a cylinder, you don't need 1 million washers (or wrist pins) to bridge the gap between the threads on the head stud, and the "beam". I don't think the Depot will have this though, and ordering won't get it here in time.

Of course, there is no more sqaure tubing floating around here, hopefully the depot will have some that is thick enough.

-Chris
ptravnic
Ahh yes, the schedule. Shame on me for not responding to Chef's question. chair.gif

The engine and transmission have been removed and are sitting outside of the car. Nothing else has been done so the game plan is this:

Friday (prob about a 6pm start) is open for whoever has interest. I'll need to pick up my beetle in Montclair before heading to Lyndhurst (who'd a thunk a brake pad could just *fall out* and grind the flanges on the calliper into the rotor...?).

Saturday will depend a little bit on how late Fri night runs but prob safe going with a planned 10am start.

Based on what needs to be done, Fri night will likely involve the removal of FI, sheet metal, and heads. Then inspect the cylinders/rings & the removed heads (damaged valve?). The rest will be taken care of on Sat...

"While it's out" stuff is rather minimal happy11.gif
-Batter tray could use a few spot welds - hell hole is not a prob but the replacement battery tray has a couple broken welds.
-Good time to repack the cv joints.
-Good time to test the FI components individually.
-Good time to clean up the engine sheet metal - maybe even splash some fresh black spray paint on it...
-If time permits, I'd like to install the new heater cable wiring I purchased from PP. I went a bit overboard and bought the barrel nuts and the wiring... Once the engine stops leaking I want to be able to use the heat!!!

I think most of us will be there on Saturday only. A couple of us are getting a jump start on Fri night so as to have a better idea of how the Sat reassembly will go. It also allows some time for "Oh shit, we need to find a parts store/shop that can...).

The cast of characters is (if I'm missing someone PLEASE let me know although all are welcome as it is an informal gathering of 914 geeks):

Ray............rmital
Rich...........nycchef
Leo............Leo Imperial
Chris..........type 11969
Aaron.........i love porsche
Nate...........turboman808
Daryl.........dtravni (aka my Dad)
Anthony.....owner of Movietime
Mike...........Dr Evil *tentative*

Address for those of us who have not been there:
759/763 Riverside Ave.
Lyndhurst, NJ 07071

My cell 212-286-0626

I'll be bringing some bagels & breakfast sort of things. Lunch will be taken care of as well.

I think everything has been pretty well covered up to this point. Missing something/someone? Suggestions - other than take a hike? smile.gif

-pt
jet1
I am going to try and make it down on Saturday.

Keith
ptravnic
QUOTE(jet1 @ Aug 22 2006, 10:10 AM) *

I am going to try and make it down on Saturday.

Keith



Hoo-ray Keith! I'm saying that in the Jamaican accent from the Red Stripe commercial's (Hoo-ray beer!).

drewvw


Booooo creepy foot doctor! Hooray beer!
Dr Evil
QUOTE(drewvw @ Aug 22 2006, 10:35 AM) *

Booooo creepy foot doctor! Hooray beer!



av-943.gif I love that comercial!
ptravnic
A couple of youtube links... Can you tell it's slow @ work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSG4_g69LuA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfGkhhm4vXw

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