heh, heh, heh... And who'd a thunk that this would take this long. Remember we were going to break down the engine tin/heads on Friday night then slap it back together, put into the car, and have it running the following evening?

Oh, how naive...

-pt

We should have a little event of some sort before snow starts falling.

Riding up to bear mountain is always fun

Well, my beetle can make the drive...

i.m up for a drive to bear mountain. let me know the date so i can rent a 911

"just general sarcasm...didn't mean to have this saga nailed.
I've been hanging out with Richie toooo long.....rmital"

hey pops leave the sarcasm to me..you stick with the unlimited breadsticks

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, AH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH !!!!

Hi guys

...never a dull post...

wtf i edit my post and you 2 slip in behind me? stepped all over my joke. what do you think will come first leo finally getting the 2.0 to me or porsche reissues the 914? how hard is it to swap an engine in 3 feet of snow?

I hear you can have unlimited soup or salad, but not both

are you goin to be at the shop on sunday again? i could possibly come by with my car if i can get it done between fri night and saturday morning. Just mounted and balanced the wheels so they will be ready to go on once the brakes and tierods are done. Hopefully the tierods will show up tomorrow so i can actually do them.

OT: spotted a white 914 in Montville yesterday i think it was

yeah...we have to get petes car out so we can get mine in =]

It's ALIVE! Running on all four cylinders. Turns out the ground under the plenum somehow got pulled off and that's why the passenger side injectors were not spitting!.

Unfortunately, in rummaging through I ended up cracking 2 wires on the geriatric harness so it took a bit to get that sorted and now the only thing it should need is tuning. It can finally get out of MovieTime's way...

I'm flirting with the idea of having the guy next door to MovieTime (the welding shop) do a proper job on the longitudinals. The easiest way for him to cure the cars ills would be to completely cut out the old longs, then put in new ones. I'm not sure if new complete longs exist... His rates seam reasonable so we'll see how things transpire...

WOO HOO

Congrats Pete!

You may be able to get away with just replacing the lower half of the longs on each side, they make reproduction outers I think, its the inners that I don't think are available. But the inner is just a big sheet metal C channel, if you are just replacing the lower half, a bent piece of sheet into an angle shape (with a flange on the end) could probably take care of most of it.

-Chris

I'm very relieved to be this close to completion. I'd really like to be able to put in a new heater hose in both sides and get the inside of the longs treated w/a coat or two of POR-15.

We'll see. I just want to drive the thing a bit.

pete thats awesome! Congrats!

I'll be doin my brakes, wheel bearings and tires tomorrow. Maybe we can all get the wrenches together and go for a ride soon.

_billy

great news!

so when do you want to do those longs correctly....just let me know

Hey Pete,
AA sells the inner long repair piece. I have used one on my car. It is not a very good replacement part. the quality is poor and the part is missing the brackets for the heater hose. Also, they go for around 300$ ( i found mine on ebay for around 50$). I would follow Chris's advice and bend some metal up yourself. here is the link to aa's part. AA inner long

Keith

hi all. allow me to introduce myself. i am this thread. i am not rich, i am only using his account and avatar cause it is the only way to communicate with you N.E.W. guys. i have a favor to ask, PLEASE DELETE ME!. i see in my thread (myself) that petes car is finished .please finish me too. i have been around soo long that i can no longer exist under my own weight. PLEASE KILL ME...NOW. start something else. talk about women, about sports,politics anything but this . please don't hold rich responsible for this as he was on the phone with leo talking about thier engines, (another novel in the making) when i went on line behind his back. i cannot delete myself (i have no fingers) so please i need your help!

Or Pete, you could give me $300 and let me sock you in the nuts and then give you a better set of panels Avoid AA, so sayith the collective.

http://www.restoration-design.com/catalog....914%20panels%22

http://www.restoration-design.com/scripts/...pcart/sh914.htm

$85 each for the outers (inner rockers), $50 ea for the inner pieces (door threashold), and there is a nifty slide show in the second link for installation

Thanks for the "nuts" offer but I'm happy with them just as they are...

Apprec the links. saved down Resto Design's PDF catelog this morning. I think they are the route. I'll plan on replacing the hoses inside the long too. Not sure where to get them from. I'll put up an add in the classifieds for a WTB...

This car is going to be proper whether it likes it or not!!!

-pt

Hoses are not special. You can get them at Home Depot probably. The HVAC type of stuff. Try McMaster-Carr too www.mcmaster.com

From looking at the pics on the RD site, and the AA site, they are seem to be carrying different things. The RD site is carrying the door sill and the inner rocker cover, whereas the AA site seems to be carrying the steel to rebuild the C channel that the inner rocker cover welds to. Maybe I'm wrong, but from the pics, it sure looks that way. I think the term "inner rocker" that RD uses is confusing, because to me, the inner rocker is the C-channel that is the most inboard part of the longitudinal, then what RD sells (inner rocker) boxes this c-channel off, then over that, to hide the longitudinal, is the outer rocker panel (RD sells this as well). Pete, you could probably use the RD inner rocker at least on the pass side, don't remember what your sills look like, but your proper inner rocker, the C-channel, needs some work. Some simple fabbed sheet into an angle will do the trick.

This is what I consider the inner rocker (at least part of it ):



This is what I started with, and what Pete's car is suffering:



Bending the sheet metal angle was easy, and I think could be a decent solution for Pete's ride.

Im in for the Bear Mt run too!! great roads up there. Keep in mind 7 lakes drive has alot of patch spots on the pavement and is loaded with loose paving stones. Was up there last week. A few years back one of the members on the 911 Pelican site organized one. Think there is a overlook called the eagles nest. Amazing twisties up there, not to mention the view.

This car will never run. Got it timed. Running hot, so hot the muffler got red hot (I mean RED!). Idle is hunting, oil drip developed and his dropping on top of the heat exchanger & makes for wonderful smoke.

I'm looking for the cheapest method to get it to Buffalo. My beetle doesn't have a tow hitch. I just want to park this thing and be done with it for a long while.

The damn thing is cursed.

-pt

Red hot, huh? How long was it idling and at what RMPs? Do you still have the wrong injectors installed on your car running at the wrong psi?

Have you changed ALL of the vacuum hoses or at least checked them? You can use a propane bottle while the engine is running. Most likely a vac line problem. Timing is either on or off, not usually variable unless your dizzy is shot and you would have noticed this when you timed it as the mark would have been all over the place.

Check AAR, decel valve, plenum and hoses

dude that sucks. let me know if you need any help with anything.

Ran it at about 3 - 4K RPM's for 3 to 5 mins while moving the distributor to get the timing mark lined up.

I'm thinking the muffler red hot issue may be due to running lean. I'm going to tinker with it tomorrow. I"m going to bump up the fuel pressure to about 31psi.

I'm at my wits end.

-pt

If you are around tomorrow I could prob use a hand figuring things out. I'm free all day.

-pt

Consider this, Pete. 1) You were running an engine at that high of an RPM for 5min withuot having any cooling air running over the exhaust like if it were driving. 2) if it is hunting it is likely a vac leak allowing MORE air in than it should causing a lean running condition which would only add to your issue.

You should not adjust your FP up. It will only mask other problems at best. You should spend all day tomorrow going over the vac lines and making sure nothing is leaking. Before you put too many more mile on the engine I would get the correct injectors, too.

Yeah, the good news is that so far there are Zero miles on the engine. Good point on the hot muffler. I'll spend some time double/triple checking alll the hose connections. As for injectors, I'm on the lookout for 2.0L injectors but if I bump up the fuel pressure I can sorta trick the 1.7L's into spraying more. Not the best fix but OK for the meantime. I'm fairly close to pulling the FI all together and putting a set of Webbers or Dellorto's on. I've really tried to stick w/the Fi but it might be too much hassle w/the larger cc engine. I know a few people are successfullly running FI on them but I really don't seem to be getting close to a suitable fix.

Some of the above is frustration talking. I'm running out of time to get this done. It needs to get to Buffalo for the winter storage - ideally it will get there under its own power...

-pt

call me when you wake up , i will try to come out for a while. vacuum hoses may be it. maybe put the decel back or take the aar out. i,m running without both. maybe room to store both cars in hazlet for the winter. will know in a day or two.

Pete, sorry i couldnt make it out yesterday to help you out.

I was having some issues on my 914 as well. Good news is i finished installing the new discs and pads. Bad news is the front left caliper is stuck and needs to be freed and im retarded and forgot to do the venting on the rears.

So, my car sits until i can get to those.

Of course i cant get to those bc i tried doin brakes on my gf's car and she has some similar problems. Left rear caliper wont come off, snapped a bolt on the RR caliper, FR caliper is not working properly either. Remedy = me replacing the entire hub assy on the LR (which i have in the basement), RR caliper is in the basement as well. FR might need a rebuilt guy in there.

so once that is done i can get back to my 914, unless someone wants to come up and help me out with the venting over the week.

_billy

I thought venting is when I complain to someone that just listens...

hey dude,

congrats on your progress. i havent really been on the boards that much but i caught wind of your latest struggles and just wanted to chime in with my suggestions:

* make sure all of your injectors are firing by: 1) pull each one, crank, observe spray into bottle.. make sure one injector is not stuck open or closed 2) you can also rig up a 12V light and make sure it lights up on each injector connector. do this with each injector connected to the light instead of the injector.

* when the engine is cold started, quickly touch each exhaust pipe and see if one seems MUCH hotter than another. this can lead you to a faulty injector too. if all cylinders are equal, you know its a problem with the general injection system.

* spray a non-combustable fluid (ie: water, or brake fluid) around the air intake ports of the cylinder head and around any suspect gaskets/junctions. if your rpm changes, you know you have an air leak. too much air in 1 or more cylinder and you are running way lean.

* i would not adjust the fuel pressure, leave it at stock. you are just masking the original problem which may go away at idle or off load, but on load its still going to be a problem

* when in doubt of your AFR, buy an innovative LC-1 wideband o2 sensor for $200. best investment

* consider dumping stock FI and going to megasquirt or carbs. i'm an MS guy, if u have any questions you are more than welcome to come check out my car. i'm about 50 mins from midtown. depends how your budget stands.

* if you have any doubt about your injectors, send them out to have them cleaned and flow checked. i used cruzin performance. pretty happy with them

* i have a few extra 2.0 injectors, not sure what you need. i got a set of 1.7L injectors but they were rejected by my injector service due to internal rust. there is a set of new 1.7L injectors in the for sale section. once again i apologize, i didnt read the entire thread so i dont know what displacement you are running.

thats about all i can think of for now. hope this helps. best of luck --Yarin

yeah, thats it!

i always wanted to use this, haha

so whens the next working session. i will see if i can get down to help out for a change.

hopefully before the weekend i will be able to get my car corrected and be able to drive it. Also got the new tierods at the house so they need to go in aswell.

_billy

bump it up.

pete how you doin on your car?

another ? for you N.E.W.'s who has done a set of turbo tie rods? I need to do them but it sounds like if i tried it, never doin it before, that i will end up in some issues that i dont really have time for or really care to deal with.
I will do all the work, i would just like some direction in person on it.

Anyone?

The car is next door to MovieTime @ the welding shop getting longs sorted out. It started running very bad - maybe the distributor moved. At any rate, loads of white smoke is coming out of the exhaust (all 4 holes). I'll sort it out in Buffalo. Will prob be towing the car there once it's out of the welding shop (couple weeks from now).

-pt

It was very nice weather today so I got busy dropping the engine and disassembling it. Looks like oil was not getting to to where it needed to be. The rocker arms had very little oil - the covers were fairly dry... Maybe a bad oil pump?

Here's the before pic:

Click to view attachment


Here's some pics of the suspected trouble area...

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Here's a peak at the heads. They looked better til I tilted them and oil ran down one side. The outside were very clean and dry where the cylinders meet up.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Pete, is this the engine you put back together at movietime? Looks like oil was getting by the rings pretty badly from the goopy buildup in the chambers, was there also liquid oil in there or was that from something else? Maybe the rings never seated? Buildup could also be from running very rich, but how long has that engine even run? Not long, right? Hmm, I would guess that the rings never fully seated, oil got by, and that is what caused the white smoke. Just a guess though.

As for the appearance of lack of oil in the rocker boxes, it is probably only because the engine is new and clean. In my t4 I built for my beetle it is always very clean and relatively dry when I adjust my valves. Big difference from the engines I have torn down where there is goopy baked on crud. I doubt the oil pump is at fault, especially if the warning light didn't light. Might want to pull the pump apart anyway to inspect for wear.

-Chris

Thanks for the info Chris - much appreciated. This is the MovieTime engine... It was run a total of about 30 miles, 50 tops. I'm going to take it all the way down, crack the case. I have a set of 94mm cylinders I'm hoping to send to Jake to get bored to match up w/the new 96mm KB pistons I just put in this engine.

As fo the crud, I havn't taken the cylinders off the pistons yet - prob will do this today but there's no serious wear on the piston tops or cylinder walls that I can see.

As for the light not coming on - it actually did at the end which is why I threw up my hands and had a high decible one sided conversation w/god/allah/buddah and whatever other diety I could think of.

I feel like Capn Ahab...

Hmm, did the light come on at idle? Could just be a hot oil causing low pressure situation. I would be suprised to find the pump at fault, but definitely worth looking into since you will have the time.

There wouldn't be any wear on the piston tops or cylinder walls if the rings didn't seat, they would have just never mated properly to the cylinder wall, thus letting oil by and potential causing that white (should really be blue) smoke.

Oh yeah, while you are in there, since you are potentially going to carbs, swap out the cam. And drop in a 78mm crank while you are at it. Some nice light t1 rods would be pretty killer too. And some ceramic lifters . . . . muhahahaha

The light came on when I made turns at first. I don't have an oil pressure guage hooked up - maybe get myself one for when this sucker goes back together. When this engine does eventually go back together it is getting either Webber 44's or Dellorto 40's. I have a set of both on hand but both need rebuilt... I have a Webcam 73 grind (very similar to Jakes 9550) already in there - I'd like to keep costs in check b/c I've got 2 other 914's that I want to get on the road by summer.

One very cool thing I did last night was set up a web cam in the garage so I could show my dad what was going on. What next, webcasts of engine rebuilds?

The fun never ends...

Webcam - cool idea!

Were you taking the corners hard when the oil light came on? Could be from that, or also, it could be from the wire grounding on something. Everytime you took a corner, it grounded out until finally it stuck in that position and the light remained on. Far fetched, but it has happened to me.

Personally I like having head temp, oil temp, and oil pressure gauges. Even the cheapie VDOs are better than nothing!

I hear that dells are more driveable than webers due to an additional transition circuit, but I only have ever owned dells, so I don't know. Parts for webers may be cheaper and easier to find since they still make em, but cbperformance.com has every dell part I have ever needed. Alfa1750 or something like that sells a dell rebuild kit for pretty cheap too. Comes from italy though, takes a little time.

It'll prob get the Dell's b/c I have rebuild kits for them already. Good to know you've had luck w/them.

OK, I strongly believe the problem with this last rebuild was the cylinders. The cylinders were the ones that came with the KB pistons - had about 10k miles on them before this last rebuild. Rebuild was necessary because the engine ran mistuned, over heated, and dropped a valve seat (bent the valve). For this white smoke ridden/oily resultant rebuild new KB pistons were used BUT the old cylinders were reused (rehoned by a local shop). I just measured one of the old cylinders versus one of the newly bored cylinders (work done by Rimco) - old cylinder measures 96.2mm, newly bored is 95.8. I believe I now know why Jake screams and hollars about not using the cylinders that come with the KB pistons... I'm guessing that the old cylinders were worn past an acceptable range and the rings just could not completely fill the gap.

The fresh engine is going back together now - just need a set of rings. Fingers crossed - it will have heads done by Len Hoffman, a new cam from Jake, rebuilt Dell's, and a Mallory distributor. Should be a well running 2056...