Second time the site went down trying to post pictures. Lets try this again.

The "House of Steel" is open". Lets burn some metal!

Finished welding the sleeve to the inner long. I still finish metal that isnt seen on the outside. I know it's there and has to meet my standard of quality.

Welded all the plugs on the outside and butt welded the seam. Almost invisible. The way it should be. Grind everything smooth and coat of etching primer is all it needs.

Really windy in Santa Clarita today. Those Santa Ana's are mighty. Fist time in my life I had to turn the diffuser gas up to 40CFH!

A few tips for non experienced welders out there:
When welding inverted you want to strike a fast hot arc. Cut your wire with a pair of diagonals everytime you strike an arc. This will create a fast burn in and reduce pooling and puddle sag. Gravity is working against you when you weld upside-down. If you don't cut the wire everytime you have a small ball of oxidized metal on the tip of the wire. This has to burn off first and slows penetration. Cut the wire each time! It will make a good clean fast weld.

I just have to say....'right on my man' wish I had that kind of patience...mine will last for 10 yrs if I am lucky but hey, then I'll do it agin!

Threw a second coat of primer on before it got dark. Came out clean.

A little more on welding thin sheetmetal:

Use weld thru primer. Do not be concerned about if you have sprayed on enough. Less is better. When you weld you are going to burn off the primer at the weld zone anyway. The zinc is only there to surround the weld zone once burned through and reduce oxidation.

I recomend scratching off any zinc primer at the weld zone area. You will get a faster hotter arc and will have less contamination resulting in a stronger flatter weld. When you are done take a Roloc disc and remove any left over weld thru primer in the area. The high zinc content has poor adhesion properties so you do want it left over as a primer for the surrounding area's.

Use a proper respirator. Zinc Oxide fumes are hazardous at least and can kill . There is no cure for heavy metal poisoning. Basically what zinc does is, it causes the bodies natural defenses to go into overdrive. Thus the same as other heavy metal poisoning. This has been called in the past "Monday Morning Fever", "Brass Fever", "The Brass Shakes", "Foundry Flu", etc. . .

Like a condom use protection. I cannot emphasize enough on safety.

Any advice on which brand of weld through primer to use?
Do the ones in the spray cans work well enough?


Great thread Jeff!

I use Wurth products but I think any Zinc rich primer will be fine. Spray cans are sufficient as you do not need a lot. Just a press of the nozzle is enough. It's not a metal primer so don't be concerned about coating an entire part. Just a dusting around the weld area is all that is needed. Too much and it creates penetration issues. Any left over should be removed and a good metal primer should be applied after grinding.

If you are seeing a green flash or sputtering when striking an arc you are using too much zinc primer.

this thread NEVER ceases to amaze!! wow. the astro scraper @$40 and change is a must have. please (if you're so inclined), submitt a write up for the classic forum. you're providing examples of first rate work, pictures, and text.

k

Your tips has saved me 20 years of trial and errors!

First rate indeed!

Mr. Jeff Hail

Your metal work is magnificent I like the way you explain things to us amateurs. It's so easy to understand.

Have you ever thought about writing a "Metal How To Book"?? It would be a great seller. This would be a great EXCELLENCE magazine how to article. Are you listening Pete??

Thanks for posting.

Tom

This is truely amazing stuff here. My hats off to you sir on some fine work, and a gallant man to take on a project like this.

Nice work. I wish I had the talent to do all of that work myself.

A valid PM was sent to me by Wes in reference to metal fatigue. On my previous post I may not have been clear but I will try to explain by example.

I referred to high stress/ high flex areas and double walls.

Where the inner long come's together with the rear frame rail it was double walled by the factory highlited in red.

If I were to just weld the inner long to the rear frame rail without the double wall it would be a very flexible joint and eventually fail. This would be compounded by suspension movement and engine weight and torque. This area is where the rear center section of the tub (torque box) ties into the rear structure of the vehicle. This area needs to be as strong or stronger than the factory designed it to be.
Everytime the suspension compresses this area is subjected to load. Everytime the vehicle is launched it is subject to load.

These parts are made of 18 guage sheetmetal which is not very thick. The area where the inner long ties into the rear frame rail is subject to high flex. The load of the rear section of the unibody is partially transfered to the long connection.
The long is a straight box and then kicks up into what is known as the Hell Hole. If rust of damage occurs at this area it will or has become fatigued with use. In a worse case scenario the car will sag. First because the supporting metal in this area has disappeared and second what metal left is supporting the weight of the car and suspension loads. It give's way. This is usually observed by a tight door gap in a very bad case of rust.

The example shown with the "paper template" would reflect the double wall at this connection. The purpose of the double wall is to spread the load at the joint into a larger area. This will reduce the load carried by the long/ rail connection at the seam/ weld area only. Because the rear rail is kicked up it acts as a lever pushing up each time the suspension compress's. The second wall controls the allowed flex in this area reducing fatigue that the long/ rail joint is subjected to.

An easy understanding would be a paper clip. A large paper clip is about 18 guage or so. If you straighten it out and then bend it back and forth it will break in two. Now take 10 paper clips and do the same thing all grouped in a bundle. It will be more difficult to bend 10 bundled and the bend area is now radiused into a larger area. If the paperclip is allowed to flex in a small area versus a larger area it will take less cycles to break. The same principle with sheetmetal applies except the long is comprised of a 3 sided box speading the load into a larger area into the wheelhouse and firewall connections.

Hope this helps

Thanks for not taking the PM the wrong way!

But that still doesn't answer if it's possible to swing by!

Wes Vann

Another example of double walled panels.
The right wheelhouse assembly. This is an AA part. Notice where the double walls are? Extra layer added all thoughout the rail area which supports the the motor mounts and suspension console also.

Sorry George, pretty rough part if you ask me. If the guys used oil or wax in the dies those hidious wrinkles at the battery tray area would not be half as bad!

type11969 has a few questions regarding Roloc disc's

3M is not the only one who makes the threaded plastic hub abrasive discs that fits the standard Roloc arbors/adaptors. I use a few off brands as well. The ones I use more of are for clutch and brake disc conditioning. Same fine grits available as 3M for 1/5 the price. I find them in bags of 100 for about $20.00 One of my local suppliers retired so I now have to order them from an internet supplier ( Autobody Tool Mart) which is a great supplier of body needs. You can find them at www.autobodytoolmart.com or 1-800-382-1200

The Rolocs disc's and arbors are pictured below. The arbor adaptors are the same for small sanding disc's so everything is a quick change universal fit. These are the standard of the autobody industry. Very convenient and long lasting.

The part # for the (3M) arbor/ backing pad's are:
1 inch- 05538
2 inch- 05539
3 inch- 05540
These are 1/4 inch shanks. I included a picture of the die grinders they fit.

The disc's are available in both sanding discs and conditioning disc's.
Sanding discs are available in 24,36,50 grits and are round sand paper disc's.
(The Green Corp's- 3M)

Conditioning disc's come in fine , medium and course. These are the one's I prefer as they last long and do not thin metal. They smooth and clean the surface. They look like old dirty panty hose spun with resin. The fine grit doesn't leave sand scratches and requires almost no finish work.

The big nasty looking black disc's on the right are 3M Clean and Strip disc's. Two kinds are available. Roloc standard and the big ones as pictured. These take a different arbor which is 1/4 inch that fits any die or angle grinder. The same arbor for these big disc's would be used on cut-off wheels or weld grinding disc's. These are for aggressive coating removal.

If you are stripping large area's I would use Aircraft Stripper. Work smart not hard. If you are stripping thin gauge exterior body panels (fend's , door's qtr's, hood's etc) you do not want to apply heat with rotating abrasives. A lo speed DA is ok but still a lot of work. Heat warp's. Use stripper. If you are stripping longs, trunks and other area's that may have thicker metal and are not normally visible on the exterior then alternative abrasives such as Clean & Strip disc's are fast to get down to bare metal.

Thanks Jeff!

Didnt get anything done for two weeks. Fire's, house stuff and other distractions took over.

Had a nice solid 4 hours to play today.

Cut and trimmed the remainder of the old panels, flanges and junk out.

Prepped the flanges and seams for the inner and outer firewalls.

Passenger side of the tunnel was just surface rust and came right off with a conditioning pad. Good solid clean metal.

Drivers side very rear of the tunnel has some corrosion that I will need to replace a small section of the last 2-3 inches at floor flange.

It's only metal I tell you!

Just wanted to give you a virtual high five here Jeff. This is good stuff. Your thread is destined to be a classic that will help a lot of people. Thanks for digging in deep and sharing the progress with us.

Mocked up the inner and outer firewalls to see how everything fits. No welds just loose.

The outer is a NOS piece and the two lower inners are AA. The AA parts fit pretty damn good. All the locating holes and boss's line right up with the original piece.
(George I am impressed)

Before I weld these in I will repair the tunnel. I also need to modify the outer firewall because my car is a 75 and the NOS part is for an early car. I will resize the shifter bushing reinforcement to match the later bushings.

I will also need to repair the tunnel lines. I had to cut them to get the PO's previous horrors out of the way. McMaster-Carr has the correct size tubing available. I have a few improvements in store from the factory design anyway.

The factory E brake handle, location, tubes and elbow's are going away. I have a 1995 993 E Brake assembly that will go between the seats.

Kind of looks like a 914 again!

Still lots to do. Stay tuned for the next episode of "Fun with Clecos"

One last thing for the day. It is possible to get the J-Tubes out without opening up the longs. My passenger side is open and the driver side is still closed for now. They have 2-4 spot welds holding the bracket. It can be wrangled out.

Get them back in with the longs closed up? Optimisticly I think it can be done. If the silencer pulls off at the front tube is another story.

To quote my good friend Mac Tilton "knowledge should be shared...unless of course it is a competing race team then throw tarps over everything".

Anyone with an early car know what these holes are for? The holes line up on the inner fire wall and inside the shift rod housing on the outer firewall.

I checked all my disassembly photo's and do not see it on the late body.

Just wondering what they are for?

Jeff,
First, let me heartily applaud your work. The scope, quality, care, attention to detail, and the sheer magnitude of the project are all evident in your (also quality) photos. I salute you.

With regard to the extra hole, in what the Porsche parts book refers to as "back wall, lower part", there is a part (and number) assigned to the /6 (1970 only) that could possibly be what you are installing, which was originally intended for use in a /6. I can't speak for the differences between the /4 and /6 down in the rear bulkhead/backwall where you are working. Sounds like it could be transmission related. The part # is 914.501.007.10


Paul

Yes, that hole is for a pivot ball , But for 4 cylinder only. The six uses a simple two bolt type u-joint .
Here is the six wall peice , It has the motor mount welded to it. (note: the black piece is the part that bolts to engine.)

Keep up the great work.

For those that may not know;

Clecos are clamps that are used as temporary pop rivets during the fabrication and fitting of parts.

If you look at the photo Jeff posted showing the plastic box full of Clecos, you will see what looks like a set of plyers. That's the tool that is used to install and remove the cleco.

Wes

Jeff, can you take some good photos of that panel before you install it, and post them in the parts vault please.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...amp;s=&f=46

Stuff that is easier to do now than later.

I am using an early firewall (PN# 914-501-119-10) which is for a 914/4 thru 1971 to be put on the 1975 body.

The NOS firewall does not come with a speedo cable spigot tube. The early firewall has some differences. I will update and modify according to my build.


The Speedo Cable Spigot Tube
Lets build one..........
The old section versus the replacement.

Wondering how I flaired the tube? After rummaging through the tool and junk box's for something shaped like a ball or cone I decided on a ballpeen hammer.
I knew that round end was good for something!

Put the 1-1/4 inch long stub on the ground. Put the round head inside and smacked it a few times with an even bigger hammer until I reached the desired shape.

That myth of hitting a hammer with another hammer is BS by the way.

Mig welded the spigot to the firewall and some primer. Done!
Don't forget to remove any burrs or sharp edges from the inside of the tube.

Moving along to the E-Brake Cable delete.

Cut out a rectangle of sheetmetal and punched some holes in it.
Spot weld it to the firewall.

I almost tacked it to the wrong side! Ooops. Caught in time.

A little finishing with a grinder and conditioning pad. Looks like factory "knockouts" on the engine compartment side. Porsche never had knockouts here except for the 6 cylinder oil tank holes on the driver side wheelhouse. Still looks clean.

If for some reason my E-Brake conversation to the 1995 993 center pull becomes a problem I can always resort back to the original design and add the elbows back in with minimal work. Always plan ahead for curves in the road.

Some more holes that need to go away.

The mystery hole to the left of the shiftrod exit on the outer firewall. Gone!

Inner lower driver side firewall matching mystery hole. Gone!
I kind of like the "knockout look". These don't show so I am not going to waste time metal finishing the recess.

Also the two holes on the inner firewall for the E-Brake cable delete. Gone!
Same procedure. Fab a plate and punch some holes. Spot weld it to the backside.

Wait! those two holes have a raised boss. Better get rid of those also and make it smooth. Hammer and dolly.

A great tool is the Punch/ Flanger. On one side it has a hole punch which really is an effortless time saver. After drilling out over 500 spot welds at this point in the project I look forward to it. On the other side of the head is a flanger. Great for lapping panels and floors. Makes a nice finished step in sheetmetal and looks professional.

Corrosion Protection:

I cannot stress enough about corrosion protection on a 914. These little buggers rust from the inside out.

All area's that were welded get a coat of primer. I then went over the primer and spotted with Wurth Seam Sealer. This sealer looks like the OEM sealer Porsche used on all the seams and under the rockers where the floor connects.

Today it is the factory recommended sealer for Porsche, Mercedes and BMW.
As Snoop Dog would say "this is the shizzle". It cannot be beat.

Most of the area's coated will never be seen so appearance wasnt a priority. Doesnt matter, it still needs to be sealed. Primer alone doesnt cut it. Even between the firewalls a few minutes spent will last a lifetime.

I decided to leave the early boot cup on the shift shaft housing instead of swapping to the late round style. The early firewall has about 40 resistance welds holding it in and would do more damage to the firewall removing it and installing the later one so I left it in.

Notice the hole to the left of the shift shaft has been deleted.

Fitting a bushing to the shift shaft will not be an issue. The early bushing is larger and can easily me made from Delrin or a sealed bearing installed. I have seen the Patrick Motorsports Bulkhead Bearing on another car it it is superior to the OEM application in every way. For $43 the PMS is a no brainer.

Didnt get any work done on the tub during the week and forgot to order the tubing from McMaster Carr soooooooooo I can't work on the throttle and clutch tubes. I can't finish the inner and outer firewalls until the tunnel work is completed yada yada.......

Ok sheetmetal happens! Move forward to the mid-floors.
I like to focus on an area and set small goal's. More seems to get done that way instead of jumping around.

Lets get to work.
Today I worked on the passenger front 1/4 floor, tunnel and floor crossmembers. Stripped everything to bare metal. I was surprised this area was not bad at all. I little flash and surface rust but easily prepared. I still have to section a piece in the drivers side rear tunnel at the firewall junction due to corrosion but that can be done later. Might as well get some thing done while I am waiting for parts.

The driver and passenger side rear floor will get replaced. I do not want to make the cut until I have the firewall tacked in and positioned.

I stripped the rt/ qtr front floor with a scraper long ago. I then went over it with a 3 inch wire wheel on a die grinder to remove any scale. Then removed all the sealer up to the front bulkhead with the Wurth (Flail). Any remaining glue/adhesive for the floor pads removed with Lacquer Thinner. Then used a conditioning pad on a die grinder to knock everything down smooth.

I want to leave as much original zinc and factory primer as possible since it is still in good condition up to about an inch in front of the floor/ seat crossmember.

Again the rear floor behind the seat crossmember is getting replaced. It's only function is to link the longs to the tunnel for support while I work in other areas for now.

Back to the front right 1/4 floor area. Stripped and all tunnel connections (flanges) prepped with a solution of phosphoric acid/ zinc phosphate (same thing as Metal Ready), let sit for a half an hour and go hit a couple cups of Java.

Once the etching solution has converted any flash rust that I couldn't remove by machine (Which was very little) I wipe with a dry towel. The solution is still working. Then I go over it with a wet rag and let it air dry. I really don't like introducing water to the interior but it is the only way to make sure any residual is nutralized. I then force out any liquid residue with compressed air that may be hiding. I aid evaporation with a propane plumbers torch just warming any area's that liquid may be hiding in the tunnel/ floor flanges.

Once everything has sat a little while it is then sanded. First 220 and then 320 to accept epoxy primer for proper adhesion.

If you want primer to stick don't put it directly over a converted surface. You need to sand and abrade the surface first. Not course enough to remove any conversion coating but enough to rough it up.

The Mini DA works great on the floor's. It's small enough to get into the recess's yet still large enough to work quickly. A normal DA sitting next to it's little brethren.

Working in smaller area's makes it easier to manage and focus than large surface area's. Might be some overlap but when a week may go by between work on the project results happen. Unless you are doing this in a production shop set goals and smaller area's to work on.

After the application of epoxy primer.

Helpful advise....DO NOT SPRAY THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT UNLESS YOU HAVE A POSITVE PRESSURE RESPIRATOR.

A PPR uses a forced fresh air supply and is the only way to save your lungs, brain and life.

Catalyzed Epoxy Primers and Isocyanates will take your life if you do not follow the proper safety measures for body and respitory protection. No car is worth your health, brain or life!

hey jeff, question. you are about where im at on my interior and im a complete noob to this stuff.

now that i know that it is ok to primer a little at a time, will you go back and reprimer the entire thing when you're done or only the areas not done?

another thing, those removable hole covers in the pans on mine are all bent and mis-shaped. is it better to try to reshape them and get a good seal on the hole (while also needs to be straightened out) or just weld a piece of flat sheet metal over the hole?

i did 2 coats of this rust converter which turned the "rust" to a primer black color. so all i need to do is light sand it and then prime? or should i do that acid thing and then sand?

really impressed with your work and focus. very inspirational.

Being it is winter hours I find my daylight is short. I try to set a goal I know I can complete in a given amount of time.

When I repair an area such as the right front floor I knew I am going to have some overlap into an adjacent area. No big deal. Any primer overlap/overspray will sand off and be re-applied for instance when I do the drivers floor. I am only talking a few inches of coating so I do not worry about masking anything off here.

The need to get this area primed was it is bare and we have been having humidity in the air lately in sunny California. Moist cold air and bare metal are not friends even if it has a zinc coating.

As far as the factory resistance welder access covers I did not remove them. I removed most of the surface sealer around them but did not find any scale or corrosion. Obviously they have not leaked. I left them in and primered over them. I will apply some sealer to replace what was removed. The small 3 inch cover next to the long on mine was a little tweaked. I just took a hammer and dolly to flatten it out. No rust so no need to remove it. These will also have new seam sealer applied over these.

Rust converter is the "acid thing". You are two step's ahead.

I have to say this rust converters are a misconception. They do not turn rust back to good metal. All that is happening is the iron oxide (rust) is being converted to an iron phosphate "layer" ( a different kind of rust) similar to rust bluing on a firearm. The key to rust converters are the chemical conversion of surface scaling and then sealing it from oxygen via zinc phosphate. Without oxygen rust cannot continue. Adding a zinc layer by conversion is part of the sealing process. Zinc does not oxidize like iron will. Zinc is also used for adhesion. Best bet is to remove as much rust as possible with wire wheels, conditioning and grinding disc's. If metal has become structurally unsound, brittle or weakened due to corrosion the only way to properly repair it is to replace it. A good example is if you look at metal that is rusted and it looks like a bunch of rotten leaves in layers it is done and cannot be saved. Pits and deep scale are another thing. These can be normally ground away and or filled with welding if enough metal is present.

Ok - If it looks like all the rust is converted to rough black primer I would use an abrasive from 150 to 220 grit paper on it and score the surface lighly, just skim it. If you start seeing carrot colored rust again it was not treated sufficiently. If you see this do the conversion again. Then lightly go over it with 320. Do not worry if you remove a little of the coating. Then prime it quickly.

Another thing on converters make sure it is nutralized correctly. If it is not done right you will end up fighting two kinds or corrosion. Rust and chemical.

Can you tell I am not a big fan of rust converters? They do have there place though. Something I learned a long time ago welding. Steel melts and rust will burn (oxide).

Jeff,

When I was up at your house checking out your teener. I didn't realize how proficient you were at the written oratory thing.

This thread is invaluable to guys like me.

I can't thank you enough for doing this. Tis very good stuff indeed.

Clayton

Before I forget............

I owe you a cup "O" coffee.

Can't wait to get together and buy ya one....!!!!!!!!!!

Clayton

Just tuned into this thread and al I can say is WOW! Terrific job.

Click to view attachment

Jeff,
What brand of respirator is this? If you don't mind me asking what was the cost?
I've looked for those types of respirators and most are over $1,000.

Sata Vision 2000. They retail for $800, I found mine on ebay for $300 new in sealed box.

Back at ya Clayton

"While you're in there"
Had second thoughts on the prior owner repairs to the clutch and throttle conduits.
Someone put about 2lb's of crap in the tunnel. Looks like it was repaired twice. First time a gob of coat hanger and fire were done, then later a bracket added with a wire welder. This has got to go!

I can hear Steve Martin now....."stay away from the tubes"!

Clutch conduit removed. Pretty easy actually.

The front was held in pretty well. Looks like the second repair was overkill.
I still do not like it.

The rear clutch tube bracket was intact but the factory bracket which looks like formed 20 gauge steel is going to get a make over. Too wimpy in my opinion.

I am going to leave the throttle cable conduit as is. It is intact and does not have pressure on the tube like the clutch cable does. It is still solid. One less thing to replace.