This was a "dry" car. I paid what I felt was fair given that I was pretty sure...what I was going to find. After sandblasting I found way more than I ever anticipated. Thank god this was not an east coast car...sorry Luke!

But, there is a tremendous amount of satisfaction bringing the chassis back after finding all the "problems". These cars are "erector sets" for adults. And the restorations become addictive. Engine rebuilds are a piece of cake compared to bringing back a rusty chassis...me thinks.

Speedo

Oh and Brant.....

I am reminded. Maybe I have actually morphed?


post Jun 20 2012, 06:57 PM

Post #40

you're moving much too fast to be a real 914 guy...
all this in 2 weeks and the thing isn't on jack stands yet

you need to slow down for a year or two if you want to be a true teener fan....

Whoops

Before I re-attach the bottom of the latch panel and outer rear quarter, I want to evaluate the access I need to finish up the longitudinal repair under the hell hole. I have looked through a lot of threads on this repair...many ways to skin this cat. RD steel for the inner longitudinal confused me. Top of mine appeared to be two layers, their panel was one layer and looked like my inner steel. This thread cleared it up...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry2325382

I will now deconstruct and evaluate.

I realize that you guys have seen tons of hell hole repairs before. So if you are bored with this sitcom, don't watch. As I am new to 914s, and having never repaired this area...I am going to try to repair my car as true to the original construction process as possible, while strengthening this area. You have seen this before...Click to view attachment
Outer top of the longitudinal and obviously why it was kicked off the teamClick to view attachment
The inner reinforcement which I was considering reusing. However, it is swiss cheese currently. I could weld up the holes and extend a patch to replace the forward rusted area....but how much of its original reinforcement quality would remain?
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

I made a buck to help shape the innerClick to view attachment Click to view attachment
Fitted and trimmed but notice I had to trim the outer long lower to be able to attach the inner reinforcement. This will get spot welded/rossetted to the outer patch.
I used the RD outer long as a template for the patch
Click to view attachment
This is a PIA but it will be stronger in the long runClick to view attachment

Continuing with the outer patchClick to view attachment
Fitting the inner...which has to be exact so the outer lays snugly over the innerClick to view attachment
Trimmed Click to view attachment
The inner needs to be carefully positioned so that when the outer patch is laid over it, the rosettes can be easily welded in creating the strength necessary. Yes it would have been easier to splice in the top of the RD repro piece and be done with it. Cleaned out the long and primed it for welding. I cannot shape and trim the outer patch till the inner is welded and finished. My pressure relief valve on my compressor crapped itself....today. Otherwise I would have been welding.

No one is bored speedo,having seen you carve up rotten 911's on the bird,what you are doing is same shit different car really.
Good work following with interest

I love these restoration threads. Talk about seeing behind the curtain to what makes our cars the wonders they are. The talent we all see here and other build threads is very impressive.

Hi Lars,


The repair looks good. The problem with the RD part (which is actually a AA part) is that it's missing the smooth outer sheet metal. I was told it's just a cosmetic piece that could be added by the end user.
When that replacement part was designed it was made in a thicker gauge metal so there was no need for the outer sheet metal. Obviously anyone could tell that there was a repair done if it was left as is. RD was nice enough to offer building me an outer shell but I decided to look for an NOS replacement part.
I did locate a new NOS right long but it's currently not for sale.
So my backup plan is to buy a good or at least better section from a parts car.

Keep up the good work ...

Inner reinforcement is done and trimmed...feels pretty solid. I used a sleeve on both ends.Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Which should add even more rigidity to the repaired area. Clecoes to align and rosettes to secure Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
And secured and trimmed. I am pleased with how this inner panel turned out. It will
provide a great form for fitting the outside longitudinal repair. Click to view attachment

I now need to finish the outer patch to the longitudinal. My original piece fabricated using the RD 14 gauge "all in one" wasn't as close as I wanted...it ended up being short. I didn't have a way to fit the RD piece in that area to determine the fit, without cutting it up...so I went on faith. Here is the fit of my piece.Click to view attachment
And here is how short the fabricated piece is, fitting tight to the wheel housing wallClick to view attachment
No big deal, I added an extension. Preliminary fitmentClick to view attachment
Massaged a bit Click to view attachment
And starting to roll the edges to mimic the original contour of the factory outer longitudinalClick to view attachment
Once trimmed this will get buttoned up and I will be able to address the battery support and tray

Great work.

I'm about to close up the hellhole. I have a new pedestal and battery tray (thanks Ferg) and am wondering about positioning both on the repaired longitudinal. Are there any measurements I need to be concerned with?

Speedo

Looking forward to not working in the engine compartment. This longitudinal repair is going to be robust. I have not considered welding in the plate reinforcement kit for the car for a couple reasons...1) it is a real six, 2) it will be driven but not tracked, and 3) it will not receive a monster engine. Comments are welcome.
Wanted the outer long cap to fit tight. So I need to trim and massage it.Click to view attachment
I want it to look clean (recognizing it is buried in the engine compartment and pretty much obscured by the battery tray) so everything needs to be close tolerance. Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Fit, positioned and drilled for rosettes.
Click to view attachment
This is a long ways from what I started with...much different than the replacement one piece RD partClick to view attachment
Click to view attachment

A little bit more fitting is required. Comparison to the RD repro...Click to view attachment
Not to dis RDs repro parts as they are what I consider to be the best repro parts out there...but they still are not perfect. My cap on the long is particular to my car which was built "sort of" by hand in the factory 46 years ago.Click to view attachment
The assistant Click to view attachment

Terrific job. I appreciate the effort you are putting in, especially since it is a Six.

I added the inner Engman kit in my Six just because I know these cars can flex. I also am putting a 3.2 in mine and though I will not be racing the car, I know the 3.2 has double the HP and torque of the stock 2.0. I figured it goes on the inside and will be invisible when finished. Shhhhhh....don't tell anyone it is installed.

I continue to look at other longitudinal repair threads. People are all over the spectrum with how the repair is approached. I am very comfortable with my repair.
Replacing the inner sleeve...as well as "sleeving" the patch makes sense for me.
New vs oldClick to view attachment
No reason not to make this permanent Click to view attachment
I am challenged with weather at this point...don't like to weld in a closed environment. But the garage door opened is about 29 degrees because of this...Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

I will weld this in this afternoon...if I can open the garage door, but I need to accomplish a small repair to keep the juices flowing. Battery support was replaced at one point...and not very well. Here is my support and tray... Click to view attachment Not the best of shapeClick to view attachment
Part of the problem is the previous repair and part of the problem is what was needed to remove the stand from the weakened longitudinal. Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
I removed the support from the tray Click to view attachment
It wasn't in great shape.

So with the stand removed from the tray....there were some areas that needed attention. This needs to be repaired...Click to view attachment
And this Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Made some repairsClick to view attachment
And reshaping Click to view attachment

And the repairs...Click to view attachment
and totally repairedClick to view attachment
This needs to be dialed in for positioning on the longitudinal.
Click to view attachment
And done Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Mounting question for the battery support. I have no reason to believe the support I have is aftermarket. It is now repaired and ready to be reinstalled. There are three sides to it...downhill, engine side and uphill. The downhill and engine side flanges are pointing away from the support. The uphill side points into the support. I would think this should also point away? In fact it looks that the correct way to mount the tray would be to weld the tray to the support, then weld the combination to the longitudinal. With this flange pointing inside, the access to weld this flange would be very limited. If I welded the support first to the longitudinal, then access to weld the support to the underside of the tray would be very limited. I cannot tell from the RD website and picture of the support which way that uphill flange points...inside or outside. I am inclined to reverse the flange direction and have it point away from the support. Comments?
This picture is looking down at the inside of the support, showing the uphill flange pointing "in".Click to view attachment

Hello,
I only replace my Tray and drill a few holes for welding into the Tray ,this works fine .
Biggest problem is the rust protection after welding in this Area.I use a little brush first.

Click to view attachment




Ralf

914fahrer,
Thanks for the picture and suggestion...makes sense. I am thinking now that my battery support and tray were either modified (repaired) or replaced. The tray itself was poorly mig welded underneath to the support. And the same person repeated the poor welding when the tray was welded to the inner wheel house. I believe the factory spot welded the tray to the inner wheel house as well as put a small bead on both ends...which I will also do.
I then called Peter at RD to ask if the "uphill" flange on my repaired battery support was pointing the wrong direction...in (to the left). He kindly sent me some pics of a factory longitudinal with the support, but without the battery tray. Voila! looking down into the support, the "uphill" flange did indeed point to the left.
I then watched the RD battery support install on Youtube. Adam did spotweld the left and facing sides of the support, but as he had already assembled the tray to the support, he did not weld the uphill, flange as it was inside the support. He aslo did both spotweld the rear lip of the tray, and put a bead on both ends to connect it to the inner wheel house.
My plan is to clecoe the tray to the support and line everything up. Once satisfied with the position on the long, I will spotweld the left and engine facing flanges. Then I will remove the clecoes and the tray, so I can weld a bead on the "uphill" flange inside the support. Finally I will spotweld the tray to the support, and the tray to the wheelhouse.
Comments are welcome...criticism too!

So the long repair is in place. I have posted some questions recently, with zero responses. I have come to realize that getting a response from this forum...involves beer, and I am ok with that...but you need to come pick up the beer. Not the case with other forums I associate with...but I am ok. So the damage to the hell hole is repaired and I am working on the battery support/tray and shelf. Is this the factory tie down for the battery? This is terrible.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment Click to view attachment
I am preparing the refurbished support to mate with the tray Ferg graciously handed me Click to view attachment

Here is the long repairClick to view attachment Click to view attachment

Hi Lars,

The repair looks good. That battery hold down is not factory. The battery is held in place by some tabs located on the upper part of the battery tray then you bolt down a clamp (P315) to the most inner (engine side) through the upper tray. That's all you get unless you go aftermarket.

What other questions do you have as I may have the answer for you.

Thanks Luke! I actually already have the P315! Funny, it looks like the piece of steel that holds the floorboards down in a 911. I ordered all my steel from RD a while back, and guess I had the premonition to order that part! So I need to remove the cruelly welded after market hold-down before I do anything else. What a disaster.

Yup, cut this part off and grind smooth..

Yessir...tomorrow. Will report back.
Need to guilt Mike and Brant (skinny man) into coming up to survey the damage. Luke...you should come up too!

Don't tempt me... I could use a vaca.

I found some nos sheet metal at the Hershey swap meet but I'm still looking for the right long section to start on my car. I have a few inquiries out so see how that turns up. Thinking of going to the Stoddard meet also.

Keep posting progress pics..

So I see most of the trays have a small bead on both ends of the tray, welding the tray to the inner wheel house. This diagram shows the four spot welds across the back also. These spot welds are coincident with the spot welds that were used to weld the back support to the tray. Should I add four spot welds back there also or are the beads on the end sufficient?

You guys must all be out playing golf. Too busy drinking beer and playing a game you will never get better at...instead of helping a "newbie" brother soldiering on in good faith. Oh well, at least the weather here is not conducive to golf...even if I were playing with an orange soccer ball, I would lose it. Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Thank god my dog has a tail...like in the second picture or I might have lost her.
So I will continue without help looking over my shoulder...fine.
Oh yeah...BTW, tomorrow is May first and the snow is supposed to stop by Tuesday

You guys have seen this a thousand time so I am going to skip the narrative. I am done with SEM weld through primer. Product sucks and I have wasted a lot of cans do to clogging. Sherwin Williams distributor is sorry, noting that they have received lots of complaints about the issue. Seems the paint congeals and screws up the nozzle. Anyway done with them. This is the new primer...and it works well. Click to view attachment Small repair on the top of the suspension tower...Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Support and battery tray.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=553
235]

The factory didn't weld in that uphill flange...but I decided to do it, we are tight except for the beads and spot to the inner wheelhouse. I need to roll the car on the rotisserie to get a good angle for those...tomorrow. Spot welded, flappered and primed.Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
I want to get this engine compartment/hell hole done so that I can close up the quarter panel and finish the sail and lockpost repair. I am tired of this side of the car.

Hi Lars,

The battery tray install looks good. The engine shelf install is pretty straight forward.
If you have time here's a install video from RD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZGf9yaFHEk

BTW, you can keep all that snow. We had a mild winter here which was nice and long overdue.

Take care,

Luke

Nice job. That is the only way to fix these cars IMHO; do it once, do it right, and never have to worry about it again.

Right side engine shelf. Install looks basic. Thanks for the video link. When I removed my crusty shelf and battery box, I seem to remember the shelf had to come off first...meaning it was installed after the battery box support. But we saw how hacked up the whole battery box structure was. Does it matter which gets installed first or second? The support or the shelf. I had just planned to grind down the left corner bead weld on the support and lay the shelf over it.

Welded to back of the tray...two end beads and two interior spots. Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Time to fit the shelf. Like the video says...needs to be massaged a bit while being fitted. This look to be positioned ok? Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment Click to view attachment

Couple more pics before I remove and drill for plug welds and prime.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Everything look ok? No glaring problems? In retrospect, Had I waited to weld the tray on, I would have had more room to weld the lower section of the shelf...NBD.

Speedo

Lars,

I think the shelf needs to be lowered a little . I circled it in the pic. Give me sometime here and I'll go measure the one on my 6. Otherwise the ends look good.


Here's what I got on my 6..

#1 : from the top of the brake line bracket to the bottom of the shelf is 1 3/4''

#2 : from the top of the shelf to the top of the inner control arm mount is 4''

#3 : from the top of the shelf to (middle) top of chassis is 2 1/2''

hope this helps you out.

Thanks Luke. For your generous measurements...what part of the shelf are you measuring to? I am going to presume roughly the area where the shelf physically touches the chassis, not the outer lip with the rubber channel?

Figured it makes sense to ask as all I have left from the old shelf are a few barely visible ground down spot welds.

Hello Speedo,

perhaps this picture helps a little bit.


Click to view attachment



Ralf

I took the measurements as close to the chassis as possible. On the shelf itself not the lip that's bent up. Make any sense to you?

Excellent...thanks guys!
I was going by where the shelf seemed to fit best "out of the box".
Glad I asked the question.
Down it goes....

do you still have the original mounting bracket for the cdi unit ?,attaches to the front of the battery box.

Uh oh...what does it look like?
I am good with recognizing shapes and colors....at least me pre-school teacher told my mom something like that.

Lars,

The cdi bracket mounts to the front of the battery box like in the pic.
It's hard to tell what the bracket looks like mounted. Let me see if I have a pic of just the bracket.


#2 in the parts diagram is the cdi mounting bracket.

I can't remember where the CDI was mounted, but it wasn't on the battery tray...that I remember. I will need to find it in my 6 stuff ...maybe I removed it with the bracket? Does RD stamp those?