Santa brought me a Miller-Matic for being good last year. First thing I did was to practice...say hi to "Snork". Yeah, I am different : )
And I did do a bit more trimming on the passenger side door handle repair. Getting ready to weld up. This was a pain to get right.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=482
221]Click to view attachment

Snork is the perfect shop pet.

which miller did you get?

110V?

cool!

Got a Miller-Matic 211 both 120 and 240. The 240 is really for thick stock up to 3/8ths. I am running it on 120 for the time being although my other welder is set up for the 240 I have accessible in the shop...so that is simply a shift of two internal wires and I am good to go. Not much 3/8ths think steel on a Porsche.

try some test welds. same metal, with 120v then 240v. you'll see a difference.

Ok...
I am back. Other projects got in the way...but I am now on a mission. I trimmed the replacement steel to repair the passenger handle area, and stopped there. Very delicate repair and I decided to wait to weld it back up. A small rust hole on the back of the passenger sail forced me to open it up...couldn't just weld up the area...not the right way to do a repair. Once in there...it got worse. Then it got even worse.
Time to cut it out, clean it up and use good steel to replace the bad.Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

that's pretty ugly. I wouldn't bother going any further. obviously a basket case. probably best to unload it cheap on a dumb Canadian that doesn't know any better

I had a donor sail that I disassembled and harvested the needed part.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Harvested and cleaned up...needs a little bit of fitting yet, and to be etched.Click to view attachment

Clean the area up, treat and weld in place.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Clean it up and close it up. More skin harvested from donor sail. I have a full repro from RD but I didn't want to scalp it for a small piece. This took a bit of effort to trim, but it worked out.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Now I need to close up the passenger rocker/jackpost repair. Spent way to long dinking around...with this. Picked up some 18 gauge steel at DenCol and I am on my way...pics of progress this week.

Speedo

that spray-on etch/weld-thru primer is shite. get some proper automotive epoxy, mix it up and use a brush to work in into all the nooks and crannies. it'll keep for a few days sealed in the fridge, but use the beer fridge, it'll make food taste funny.

Nice work!

Good to see you over here man ,your 911 threads on Pelican supplied me with hours of great reading,you would never know what nasty bits can hide in these cars but you will be used to that ,the 914 just rusts in different places than the 911....same shit different day really.
You have great skills ,go hard, will be watching this one.

Well it's about time... oh I guess I shouldn't talk..lol
Carry on

Hey Lars,

Did you happen to add a piece of foam/weather stripping along this strip to keep the outer panel from rattling against it ? I know the factory had something on there.

Good question. Going out on a limb here...but all of the foam that Porsche put into the 914 tended to attract moisture and rot the steel. I am inclined to seal up areas with chemicals an not use any moisture "wanting" foam anywhere. If needed I can slide something up in that channel even after the skin is welded completely...if needed, I will. I am focusing on this area...
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Nice work Lars!

Turns out the inner rocker I received is for the drivers side which I don't need. I actually need the last six inches of the rocker on the passenger side. I called Alex at RD ad asked if they could stamp the last 12 inches and not trim it for me (good luck!)...nope. Yeah, well ok. I need to fabricate it then as it doesn't make sense to kill a perfectly good 4 ft inner rocker for the last few inches. This is what I need...
Like this end...but this is the drivers side.
So I fabricated the last few inches. This will be spliced to the patch to the inner wheelhouse and then the jack support will complete the repair.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=546
364]

I want to get these pieces trimmed perfectly before welding in place. No room for error here. I guess the triangular extension/overlap on the inner rocker that slips behind the wheelhouse extension is to add some extra rigidity to the jack point? From my rusted removed parts, I couldn't see where the overlap was welded...so I will just plan to drill the wheelhouse repair to rosette weld to the inner rocker extension behind it. Cleaned, fitted, dressed and primed.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Hi Lars,


The work looks good. I looked at the same area on my 6 and it appears that it's spot welded like this..

Check this thread out where Rick fixed the same area on a 6.
Start at post 72. Looks like Rick added an inner sleeve to help with rigidity.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...26585&st=60

If you look at the RD part # 331 it has a sleeve welded to the inside of the part.

Interesting...not sure who I talked with a week ago at RD, but I specifically asked if this area (behind the jackpoint was a single layer or if it was sleeved...nope, told it was single layer. Mine was too far gone to tell. Obviously their inner wheelhouse steel is sleeved. I wonder what gauge the sleeve is? Ricks fix with the sleeve makes sense. Mine is a bit more complicated as I am not replacing the entire inner rocker. But as I am replacing the wheelhouse area behind the jackpoint and mating it to the left end of the inner rocker, I suppose I could assemble them off the chassis, and weld a sleeve behind the welded pieces...then weld the unit to the chassis. Either way I get it done, it would be a bonus to have the reinforcement "doubler" behind the jackpoint.
Thanks for the heads up Luke...glad I didn't weld this up yesterday : )

You may want to run the sleeve behind all 4 pieces. That should tie things up really good. Glad you didn't weld it up too.. much easier to do it now vs later.

A sleeve or doubler makes sense. I will need to do it differently than Rick as I am not replacing the entire inner rocker. I will sleeve the area from the inner wheel house to behind the jackpoint, and then the area behind my inner rocker repair. I want the sleeve to lay flush with the inner rocker and wheel house repair so I can get good welds. I think I can engineer the sleeve to fit up after welded to my repair.
I want to figure out where the jackpoint fits first.Click to view attachment
Then fit the sleeve behind my repairsClick to view attachment
Sleeve fitted behind wheel house repairClick to view attachment
Inner rocker sleeveClick to view attachment
Everything tied in and fitted
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

So on a side note...the original engine is stored (pickled). The plan is to build up a 2.7 RS spec MFI engine. In fact it is all ready to be assembled. I don't want to cut the nose of the car. Is there room in either front fender (and airflow) that will allow me to put a cooler up there? What do most people do for cooling when they transplant engines?

Speedo

So maybe for a 2.7 you won't need an external additional cooler. I seem to recall that if you were 3.0 and up you needed some help with cooling.

I have a 3.2 going in my Six and went through all of the various cooler designed and permutations. Ultimately, I decided that if I had to have one, I wanted it to work really well and be bullet proof. I did the GT style cooler, lines, thermostat and shroud. As much as I did not want to cut up the front, I decided I would rather have it function as good as possible to keep the 3.2 cool. Good luck.

The factory 911 2.7rs came with a front fender mounted oil cooler.
That being said I'll be running a 2.7rs spec engine in my 6.
My plan is to run a 914-6 GT shroud like the PMS setup.
I will not be cutting my front panel . I'll be using the factory holes along with two fans attached to the cooler. I think that should work fine.

Lars, you will need a cooler with a 2.7. I doubt the fender will have enough space and work well. Some (myself included) have had some success mounting one under the rear trunk above the axle shafts. Key would be directing some fresh air to it.

Progress...you could put a Sherman tank on the right side of this car and jack it up. Sleeve inside the repair makes this stiff as hell (how stiff is hell?). Click to view attachment
I need to position the new jackpoint. Checked the right side and looks as though the center of the jackpoint is directly above the outer rocker panel nut below it. The other means I have to find the location is using the new outer rocker from RD and trying to center the hole for the jackpoint in the opening. I measured the driver side and it appears to be centered above the outer rocker nut. Click to view attachment
My fear is relying on the repro outer rocker....and having the rocker not be exact. There is not much margin for error. Suggestions would be helpful.
The sill triangle needs to be massaged also...stamping is relatively correct, but does not fit my car well. The flange on the inside needs to be longer. Compared to the original...Click to view attachment
So I added 3/8ths to give me something to work with.Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

So I have a couple questions...obviously the jackpoint location question. Next, what is the best way to weld up the jackpoint? My guess would be rosettes (in place of spot welds) and then a few stitches along the outside? It will be covered up? I am going to re-use the bottom of the door jam, and 12 inches of the sill I removed for access to the rocker for repair. I am not concerned about re-using and re-welding these areas as they are covered by the aluminum door sill trim...?
As it relates to the cooler for the engine...I am going to explore using a pair of narrow coolers in the front fender wells. The rotating wheels produce a lot of turbulence up there...a lot of moving air. I can also resort to my 911 fan pulley trick, where I use the largest crank pulley and the smallest fan pulley to create a 1.3 ratio advantage to the factory in fan air volume. More tomorrow.

do you want me to get measurements from my car for the jack reinforcement position?

I would use the (aftermarket) rocker panels as a guide too....


you will need a cooler
there is also no air flow into the front wheel well... no slots for air to come in around the bumper (aka 911)

I'd go with mikes rear cooler option
I've done it once, its not as good for cooling as a front cooler in clean air
but its still a benefit, and although it only knocks 20degree's off.... that's 20degree's more than not having a cooler.

The smaller T engines did not get front coolers but all the S engines did. I would plan for additional cooling since your using a high performance engine.

914 fenders don't get airflow or have width like 911's.

I need the measurement of the outer rocker bolt hole under the jack point. The driver side of my car has that hole pretty close to centered under the jackpoint. Mr rear quarter in front of the wheel was removed to gain access to do this repair. I cannot use the RD replacement outer rocker to position the jackpoint as I need to center it using the edges of both wheel arches...and I only have the front wheel arch till I weld the q-panel back on. If someone can tell me "yeah the hole is directly under the jackpoint", I will go with that. Otherwise I need to be patient and get the correct placement. Not inclined to weld the jackpoint in the wrong place.
So I am ok to use rosettes around the jackpoint and then a few "beads" on the outside edges?

Speedo

Hi Lars,

I have a set of factory outer rockers that came off my 6. I can go out and take some measurements for you. I can also measure the center line of the jack post if need be.
Let me know what you need and I can take a few pics for you too.

Happy Easter

Thanks Luke! In Ricks's thread post #73 the pics show the jack receiver and the bolt hole for the outer rocker underneath it. This is the measurement I need....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...26585&st=60

This is what I got from the outer rocker panel.
From the bottom side of the jack post ( rocker mount hole ) to the center of the next (forward/center mount hole) is: 20 3/4 '' center to center .

Did you get what you need? If not I can get you accurate measurements off my Alien or my 6.

I don't get this. The triangles work perfect. Use the sill piece above as a guide for setting those up. If you had to weld a strip of metal to those to get them to fit you need to recheck the parts you are attaching them to.

The only issue with fit is the tail of the triangle needs to be curved to replicate the original.

Did the measurements help ?

I found a few pics of the jack post/rocker mount hole if it helps you.

I figured it out. Staged the outer rocker with a temporary fit of the rear quarter panel. Used the repro outer rocker as a guide. Centered the jack receiver, and the outer reinforcement.
BTW, triangles were not perfect.
I had to massage the steel triangles on every side to make them fit. My old removed triangle was too rusty and twisted to compare. I have never been able to use a repro steel part whether 911, 356 or 914 that was plug and play. I expect it to be close, but do not expect it to fit first try.
I am ready to be done with the passenger rocker...and move on.

Are you saying the fold or shape of the triangle was correct just the weld flange was too short allow you to comfortably weld to the rocker? I think I got what your saying. In my case I use a spot welder and attach the triangle to the rocker before I close up the rocker. Then install the sill shelf after the rocker is welded in place. Either method works. Stay on it.

A message for all who read this thread. Luke pointed out that I installed a double layer in the rail on Ben's 6 when I did the rail repair. This serves two functions. One, less important but functionally as important is heat transfer. This will allow the single outer layer to transfer weld heat into the thicker two layers slowing the transfer and help reduce warping and shrinking.

The second and most important reason in a unit body car is structural. When your talking about trying to butt weld a rail section and count on your weld to carry a vertical, horizontal and angular flexion you will very likely not succeed. By adding the stiffener or backer you ensure the joint is safe.

One word of caution though. The ribs on the outer panel serve two functions. One is strength the other is weakness. Strength in the design, but a designed weakness as a crush zone to allow the chassis a place to give and absorb energy in a collision. The energy transfer passes around you instead of into you. You will not want to bridge these or eliminate them. They serve a function.

Sorry for the hi-jack. I hope it doesn't cause a debate in your build thread. I felt it was important that your readers understand the function of the chassis and proper repair methods.

After I posted this I figured I should start a thread on this as a resource. So here's the link for those that want to expand and not muddy up this great build.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=280027

Rick,
No issue with the resourceful information. No hijack interpreted.
Lots of different ways to skin this cat. An old mentor of mine, Grady Clay was always pushing me to reinforce the weak points on this chassis....and not for purposes of racing, but strength and longevity. The inner rocker is fluted for stiffness, and to allow for the stamping to retain shape. The jackpoint however staunchly reinforced, will transfer impact through the rear cockpit wall separating the two sides of the longitudinals. My reinforcements in this area provided strength but also allowed for easier welding of my splices.
I jigged my sectioned q-panel in place...
Click to view attachment
And clamped up the "centered" outer rocker
Click to view attachment
This allowed me to figure out exactly where the receiver and reinforcement needed to be. The captured nut under the inner rocker was not exactly centered under the outer rocker receiver hole. Glad I didn't assume that...and thanks to Luke and Brant for sending me pictures to try to help position the outer rocker. This was the correct way to do it.
Click to view attachment
My original placement marks for the receiver against the inner rocker would have been "off" by 1/4 inch...not a deal breaker, but that would have required making up the difference by modifying the opening in the outer rocker
Click to view attachment
Squared up in the correct position and ready to be prepped for welding. I will probably use rosettes around the perimeter then spaced beads along the outside. Click to view attachment

Luke, why is your entire longitudinal sectioned and removed from the chassis? Do I want to know?

Bottom of the lock post is weak and need to be rehabbed before being spliced back in. I think I can clean it up.Click to view attachment
Need to remove the rot and add good steel back in. Most of this damage was hidden behing gobs of lead which once removed...showed the damage. This is the backside of the area where the lower lockpost meets the sill plate. A strange area of overlap with a lot of leadClick to view attachment

Progress is slow here...

Progress is great. !

Luke, why is your entire longitudinal sectioned and removed from the chassis? Do I want to know?


Hi Lars,

The repair on your 6 is looking good. On my 6 the hole right side is shot. It's not worth fixing a piece here n there. The more I dug into it the more rust and damaged sheet metal I found. I have purchased all of the new metal ( some from RD and some NOS ) for the repair. The more I looked at the car the more I wanted an NOS replacement part for the repair. It would be easier for me to just cut out all of the rusted metal and replace it with the new piece. It will not be an easy fix but it's the only way that I can see it being fixed properly. My other option ( if I can't locate an NOS part ) is to buy a good parts car and cut that section off it for the repair. I'll see what Hershey brings in and go from there.

Keep up the great work and post pics as you go.

Last few inches of the passenger sill were lingerie. Not sure they would have survived a re-weld. Need to cut fit flange and weld.Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Now that I have the jackpoint centered...Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Very ready to close up this section of the car. I'm a 911 guy and this is my first foray into the "dark side". Taking longer to do things correctly...but that's the way it is.

This thread has me afraid of what I might find.