QUOTE (jimkelly @ Jan 24 2006, 05:19 AM)

Steve, I had emailed Mike at sharpbuilt before I saw your post of $85 for the box. He emailed me about the same quote.  The question is to we need any templtes from Mike to help us put the cuts exactly right on the oil pan or the sump tube? If you are willing to do the cutting and welding I could send you a check or paypal you for this work and for the cost of the box and for the cost of return shipping. Looking forward to your engine/radiator.tranny mount design.  Maybe you can make for the group or - make the pre cust pieces available to the grou or the drawings so we can have fabricated locally. I was thining tonyakavw's engine bar would be fine with me but this would leave building tranny mounts which I'd hope would not be too challenging. I think a seperate engine mount and a seperate tranny mount would ultimately result is less weight - and block less stuff - than a combo mount?? I am sure the cast pan mentioned above will be more $'s.  The website does not list a price. Thanks guys for everything !!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim

This is from a previous post not much has changed -
I plan on making a Suby kit. I am fairly serious about this - so far I have about $10K in tools and shop stuff to do work like this. I am picking up my engine, transmission and a CNC mill on Friday.

What I plan on making is "minimum parts" type of kit to mount a Suby engine AND transmission along with the mid mounted radiator that Scott T pioneered (if I make any money at this some of it will be shared with Scott.) The main design goal is to minimize any cutting or drilling on the car. I hope to be able to supply the mounts, the transmission AWD to FWD parts and the shift linkage along with part numbers for hoses, belts, radiator etc and instructions on how to do the swap.

Unfortunatly for the project (not for me) I have a new baby (our first) on the way, I hope I can get started this winter but I won't be suprised if being a new dad slows me down - alot. The good thing is my day job is really slow so I can dedicate more time to important things like engine swaps and kids.

The price will be very reasonable as I won't be reselling anything that I don't make or have made specifically for this project.

You might notice no mention of wiring. I am using an SDS system so adapting the stock Suby system is not going to come from me. If someone else wants to do this and offer it to members please do so.
Steve

wow

I think we can sit back a drink a few beers

eat a little popcorn

smoke a few cigarettes

drink a few more beers

and sit tight while Steve

does some cutting and welding and pounding

I think our task is simple

Jim

OK,
So I went to John Edwards machine shop today and found out he sells the cast pan also.. In fact he designed it.

Well: There is NO internal baffling in the bottom. The reason was typically the engine builder welds in his own design to suit the use of the pan.

I saw two designs for baffling at his shop that would suit road racing / A/X..

The price is down to about 310 - 320 bucks for the pan.

Hell, i could weld in an appropriate baffle in twenty minutes... No Problem..

Obviously cutting a stock pan is a bunch cheaper.. period...

Yet I if had the extra bucks... HHHmmmmmm

He also has a setup that places a dry sump pump IN THE PAN and is driven off the front pulley. This is only a prototype as nobody has asked for it yet..

The guy has some crazy kewl stuff going on in his shop.

John also has a cast finned bottom if ya need one.. for extra bucks.

If I can help anyone here on this stuff.. PM me or mail me... I wil see what i can do.....

Twystd1

Something to consider about increasing the size of the oil pan is that if you flatten it out and go out to the sides, you are moving part of the oil pan closer to the exhaust ports. I don't know really how much of an effect it has but it seems to me that you could end up with some heat from the exhaust tubes warming up the oil. The oil pan modification I'm doing (hopefully done this weekend) will have extensions to the front and back only.

-Tony

Thanks for sharing that Tony - excellent point!

Look forward to some pics : )

Jim

Tony, that sounds like a great way to get the oil heated up to operating temperature on a cold day!

QUOTE (GS Guy @ Jan 24 2006, 04:28 AM)

On the axles - I know Todd @ Precision custom manufactures chromoly flanges to accept T2 and 930 sized CV joints, and sure he could weld a set of these to a pair of Subaru output stubs.  Not sure how that would affect the strength though.  Probably better to utilize the inner portion of the original Suby CV/splined section, machine it down to a simple "hub" then take the CV flange you want then weld those parts together.  That way you don't loose any strength of the original stub. Jeff

Like this maybe. Machine off the grey area and weld on the flange. Notice mine is all one piece the stub is not separate on a 2005 RS transaxle. Did I mention the guy that removed these and the previous set is a careless dolt?

bump!

Just my opinion but wouldn't welding cause the flange to warp some if good penetration is achieved (needed for this type of part)?

I'm the drive train team leader on a formula sae team and we just trashed a set of bearings because on the outboard side of the axle we had a flange adapter that went to the spindle that was welded together. The weld was very even and looked ok, but once taken off and put on a lathe they're far enough off to cause quite a few problems. Since machining a whole flange is out of the question we're going to cut the splined part out, weld a new flange on that is oversized, and then make it true and round on the lathe before drilling out the wholes. Haven't done it yet, but I'm going to start on it tomorrow. I think it will work, but I just thought I should throw in my 2 cents.

Derek Vetter
WSU Formula SAE
http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~sae/

Drool.

That is my 2nd favorite engine.

Looks very nice.

Hey

For the speedo/VSS, its not that hard but a lot of research and testing, like you don't need more.

For the 901 a VSS would have to be fitted, for OBD2 cars the VSS has become an input that the ECM uses for some realy important fine tuning. The VSS (from wherever you get it) would have to be the same type and signal strength, 1-5 volt square waveform ? You can program (reverse) the ECM to any tire size or gear ratio, but can't change the type of input.

I have flashed many American cars/trucks, but never on a Suby. Lots of people do tho...I would lean to a Porsche/Suby hybrid sensor.

+Karma
Later

QUOTE (biggy72 @ Jan 27 2006, 11:01 PM)

Just my opinion but wouldn't welding cause the flange to warp some if good penetration is achieved (needed for this type of part)? I'm the drive train team leader on a formula sae team and we just trashed a set of bearings because on the outboard side of the axle we had a flange adapter that went to the spindle that was welded together. The weld was very even and looked ok, but once taken off and put on a lathe they're far enough off to cause quite a few problems. Since machining a whole flange is out of the question we're going to cut the splined part out, weld a new flange on that is oversized, and then make it true and round on the lathe before drilling out the wholes. Haven't done it yet, but I'm going to start on it tomorrow. I think it will work, but I just thought I should throw in my 2 cents. Derek Vetter WSU Formula SAE http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~sae/

Maching after welding was always planned, I would expect some warping no matter how stout the flange was. I am more concerned with dealing with that hard as tool steel Suby CV. I can cut the sucker off with a cutoff wheel but I don't know how the thing will machine after that. Guess I will be the first to know. I might have to look into getting it EDM'ed.

I wonder if the removeable output stub can be used in newer tranny (edit added the word tranny) one piece axles/cvs as steve has?

I so - in order to keep things as standard as possible should we not be bus axles/cvs with a custom flange on the wheel side and a custom sub splined roll pinned flange on the tranny side.

The bus axles being shorter should give more spce for custom flanges - not to mention they are substantilly stronger and would be new - versus using used 914 axles/cvs?

Also looking into the engine bay of my 1993 subaru impreza - it looks like the axles are not prependicular to the tranny by a substantial amount.

Anyone want a pic??

Jim

uuhhh!! Yes!

if you're going to edm it I'd just get the custom axles because you're looking at quite a bit of money and alot of work to do all of that. I would guess after it's said and done you're looking at more money than the axles, (if they're only 350) and it's alot more work.

pic of my axle/cv from my 1993 subaru impreza. Not sure if you can see it but I can tell you it is far from perpendicular. Jim

small car has Hall effect sensor that fits on cv..... see below

This hall effect speed sensor fits on the transmission and a cv joint. It has 5 pulses per axle revolution which closely approximates the Subaru pulses per mile. Fits Syncro, 2wd manual and automatic
SSK3

$49.95
Qty

I hit a few minor snags during the first engine fitting. The release arm hits the trunk floor and the AWD extension hits the muffler heat shield. The heat shield can be trimmed to fit or hopefully the FWD casting can be used instead as it is much smaller, I'm looking into ths right now. The release arm issue could be solved with a small amount of cutting and a little sheetmetal box welded in to cover the hole. I am looking at hydaulic release bearings as a solution.

I'll be hanging on every word. Would be a shame if the awd tranny could not be easily used. Looking forward to the next episode : )

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 5 2006, 12:25 PM)

I'll be hanging on every word.  Would be a shame if the awd tranny could not be easily used.  Looking forward to the next episode : )

It will work, just needs a little help. Here are the pics I forgot to add in my last post. First one is the AWD housing almost hitting the muffler shield - the trans is about an inch too low in this picture.

And one of the release are hitting the trunk floor. I'm going to go out and remove the arm right now.

Does anyone have a suggestion on a decent easy to use "paint" program to draw simple shapes and text onto a jpeg. The only thing I have is a cludge of MS word and Photoshop elements.

Here is some more with the release are removed and the AWD extension removed.

Almost empty housing.

Top view of the whole thing.

Un-needed AWD housings.

"Stuff" sticking out of the trans. The splines get tied together with a coupler to make the AWD into FWD. The top splines are the pinion shaft the lower are the output of the transmission.

In the car. Fits MUCH better now. I hope the FWD housing fits. Otherwise I will cut and weld the AWD housing.

Clearance between the top of the bellhousing to the floor. Might be room for a cable release arm.

Last one for now. Side view that shows the trans tucked up nice and close to the floor.
My wife and I have been invited to a superbowl party so I have to go and waste time (I hate watching sports) and drink beer.

That is some nice progress. Good job on the bracketing to hold the engine and tranny firmly and level on the jack - I hate seeing so many jack engines that are barely hanging on and can so easily be dropped and broken. Jim

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 5 2006, 03:30 PM)

That is some nice progress.  Good job on the bracketing to hold the engine and tranny firmly and level on the jack - I hate seeing so many jack engines that are barely hanging on and can so easily be dropped and broken.  Jim

Thanks, I figured that I should spend a little time making the engine/trans easy and safe to install and remove because I am fairly sure I will be doing at least 20 times. That's the first time I've used unistrut the way it's supposed to be used. Worked out well for a temporary deal. I hope to have rev 1 of the engine subframe done by the end of the week.

that transmission is too clean, hurry up and get it dirty to get it properly prep'd for a 914

unistrut? did you have a source for used or are those new pieces?

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 5 2006, 11:16 PM)

that transmission is too clean, hurry up and get it dirty to get it properly prep'd for a 914 unistrut? did you have a source for used or are those new pieces?

Clean! That thing is filthy for something less than a year old - it's a 2005. Both the engine and the trans have a nice smooth finish, pressure cast maybe.
I had the best source of all for the unistrut, work was throwing it away. I should have taken more of it (I have about 100 feet of it left over)

Mike - How are the babies doing?

I've been too busy working and watching the baby to get anything worthwhile done on the car. I have had time to waste surfing for axle components. I found this and I'm waiting for more details on it. I hope this part is available in a 33 spline configuration - that would make the axle issue go away. This part is 30 spline. Anyone know someone in the driveline bussiness?

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 7 2006, 08:25 PM)

I have had time to waste surfing for axle components. I found this and I'm waiting for more details on it. I hope this part is available in a 33 spline configuration - that would make the axle issue go away. This part is 30 spline. Anyone know someone in the driveline bussiness?

This thread must be getting boring - I'm qouting myself.
That tripod idea is not going to work in the 914. You need to be able to remove the outer cv joint to be able to use this type of joint, that's not going to happen in the 914. Looks like some type of stub axle needs to be made.

This is what we need. One of these with the correct splines for the Subaru stubs and drilled for a 944 CV.

one for each side

QUOTE (d914 @ Feb 8 2006, 08:32 AM)

one for each side

This thread keeps double posting when I add to it.

keep up the good of work, your a bit ahead me...I'm still strpping and re-doing the car.....suspension pieces almost done and brakes...now off to soda blast..

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 8 2006, 08:31 AM)

This is what we need. One of these with the correct splines for the Subaru stubs and drilled for a 944 CV.

You are gonna use 944 axles.cvs?

How much for a set? ( do you have a part number for them)

Is there not enough room for this adaptor when used with 914 axles/cvs?

Have you looked at bus axles/cvs??

Your adaptor has a hole in it for the roll pin?

You're gonna use stubs from an earlier year tranny?

Jim

Before I would make any decisions regarding the suby trans, I would go to www.i-club.com talk with these guys and see what thier opinion of the suby trans. I have a 2.0 WRX engine in my teener... after chatting with the guys on i-club I learned that the suby trans is kinda as well. I just had Brad at 914 limited build me a custom 901, cost me around $2,700.

Keith

$2700 for a well built tranny is no small sum.

I will visit the website you mentioned though : )

Do I have to be a member to read the threads?

Can you provide a few noteable thread urls?

I will be getting a sub ej22 with 100K, a sub awd 5spd tranny, harness, ecu, and a bunch of other stuff for $500.

I have no doubt that the sub tranny will handle the 135hp of the ej22 with no problem as sub uses the same tranny for more than twice the hp.

What kind of performance will a $2700 tranny get you. How much hp and torque do you expect it will not fail under?

Jim

QUOTE (jimkelly @ Feb 8 2006, 09:21 AM)

$2700 for a well built tranny is no small sum. I will visit the website you mentioned though : ) Do I have to be a member to read the threads? Can you provide a few noteable thread urls? I will be getting a sub ej22 with 100K, a sub awd 5spd tranny, harness, ecu, and a bunch of other stuff for $500. I have no doubt that the sub tranny will handle the 135hp of the ej22 with no problem as sub uses the same tranny for more than twice the hp. What kind of performance will a $2700 tranny get you.  How much hp and torque do you expect it will not fail under? Jim

It is a bit pricey, but I did get a 904 main shaft installed, gated off 1st, and had a 904 "C" gear installed and no core. Dana from Renegade used to be my roomate. His suby teener getts flogged daily, and still runns and shfits very well. Check out his awsome burnout on Renegades web site... Under 914, (scroll down to the doughnut long version). He does not do this often, but he drifts every corner he gets a chance to and zero probs with his BONE STOCK 901.

I don't know if you need to be a member to read the threads, something tells me no though...

Check out the various flat4 club websites... I know we have a flat4lv.com for the locals here in Vegas.

sounds like a great deal on your engine and tranny, I got my 2004 WRX 2.0 with 4,000 mi for $1,500 delivered. Another $500 for the wiring harness (nightmare) and ECU.

As for performance expectations, I do not know the answer to that, I would call Brad at 914 Limited in Peoria for that one.

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:15 AM)

Before I would make any decisions regarding the suby trans, I would go to www.i-club.com talk with these guys and see what thier opinion of the suby trans. I have a 2.0 WRX engine in my teener... after chatting with the guys on i-club I learned that the suby trans is kinda as well. I just had Brad at 914 limited build me a custom 901, cost me around $2,700. Keith

and most of those that thrash a suby transmission are also trying to dump 300+ hp thru 4 wheels and are most likely very hard on the transmission while shifting......the 914 has less weight and only 2 tires to spin when abused...

True Dat!

Anyone looked to see if one of these Suby trans can be mated to a Porsche 3.6? I am exploring ALL possibilities in place of the 901 (built 901, 915, G50, Boxster, 944, etc.).

QUOTE (db9146 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:28 AM)

Anyone looked to see if one of these Suby trans can be mated to a Porsche 3.6? I am exploring ALL possibilities in place of the 901 (built 901, 915, G50, Boxster, 944, etc.).

I would check with Kennedy engineering to see if they make an adaptor plate for your engine.

Thanks...talked with them. They don't make any adapters for Porsche engines, only Porsche trannys.

Yeah, I REALLY doubt you will have problems with a WRX 5 speed in a 914. It will do fine unless you severely abuse it (same with any transmission). Most of the WRX problems are blown out of proportion anyway.

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Feb 8 2006, 11:42 AM)

Yeah, I REALLY doubt you will have problems with a WRX 5 speed in a 914.  It will do fine unless you severely abuse it (same with any transmission).  Most of the WRX problems are blown out of proportion anyway.

yea, I bet the WRX guys use the transmission as an excuse when they get smoked by an EVO

QUOTE (db9146 @ Feb 8 2006, 10:31 AM)

Thanks...talked with them. They don't make any adapters for Porsche engines, only Porsche trannys.

damnit!