Here is my set up for the cable shifter

And my setup for the drive shafts. 924 shafts with 914 cv on outside and 924 cv on inside with 100 mm flange welded to subaru output.

Cool. I looked up 924 axles on car-part.com, and they look reasonable. Somehow just saying that the driveshafts come from a Porsche sounds cooler than from a VW bus -- does that make me a snob ? Anyway, I'm assuming you got the ones from the 924 Manual, not the Auto, right ? On the Auto the left and right are different.


Also, there was some question earlier in this thread about whether this setup would allow you drop the engine/tranny without removing the trailing arms. And the verdict is ..... ?

Unless I'm missing something, it looks like the 924 CV is bolted to the custom 100 mm flange w/ the same kind of bolts as we have on our teeners. I'm not sure why the procedure wouldn't be the same.

QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Mar 19 2006, 11:52 AM)

Okay, gotcha. I'll probably need to wait until (much) later when I've got a tranny to mess with to see all the issues, but in general it looks like there's room for putting the guts of a cable shifter in there. One thing I'm wondering is wherther the cable itself can enter the case. It seems inevitable that tranny fluid would wick back along the cable and enter the jacket. We'd have to figure out if that's a problem or a feature BTW, how does the standard control shaft pass through the Saker plate ? Is there a plastic bushing ? a lip seal ?

There is lots of room inside for a shifting mechanism.

The cables I am looking at have seals on them so trans oil leaking into them should not be a problem.

It's just a hole in the plate. The seal is in the center diff case.

I was asked a couple of questions on shifting. I am using a early mr2 shifter (see pic) and I have been driving it for about a week now. The shifter coming out of the transmission has very little travel but this setup is working good so far. I still have some adjusting to do and alot of tuning with msII. The gear ratios seem to be about the same as the 901.

I - think - I would like to see Steve some up with an external linkage design that could be used with either 5spd fwd or 5spd awd trannys as I have not decided what tranny I am gonna used but the fwd will save me from needing $250 in Saker parts. Jim

This Subaru thread is really great and I am hoping that the question I have is not way off.
Is it possible to make the Subaru FWD/AWD transmission run in the opposite direction? Say like what happens on a 911 engine converted to a 914 layout.
Reason for this questions, I would like to build a VW Vanagon with a Subaru STI engine or SVX 3.3Li and possibly use the Subaru trans. Can a ring & pinion be changed to turn in the opposite direction?
I hear of people using these Subaru engines in the Vanagon’s with the original VW Vanagon trans.
What options due I have to use a 5spd/6spd transmission with this set up in a VW.

Thanks in advance

Quilmes

QUOTE (Quilmes @ Mar 21 2006, 11:23 AM)

This Subaru thread is really great and I am hoping that the question I have is not way off. Is it possible to make the Subaru FWD/AWD transmission run in the opposite direction? Say like what happens on a 911 engine converted to a 914 layout. Reason for this questions, I would like to build a VW Vanagon with a Subaru STI engine or SVX 3.3Li and possibly use the Subaru trans. Can a ring & pinion be changed to turn in the opposite direction? I hear of people using these Subaru engines in the Vanagon’s with the original VW Vanagon trans. What options due I have to use a 5spd/6spd transmission with this set up in a VW. Thanks in advance Quilmes

That's my next project! Imagine using the AWD trans to make a Syrcro from a regular van.

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 15 2006, 10:33 PM)

The transmission to block surface is about 1" forward of the "rear firewall" - where the rear enging seal is on a stock 914. There should be plenty of room for the six. There is almost a foot between the front of the engine and the firewall. The distance between the transmission to block surface and the front engine tin seal area is about 24-1/2"

Just measured the length of the svx motor and its 21 1/2"

I will get the cradle from you too. In your cradle design is the engine mount and tranny mount one piece? Are you retaining the subaru motor mounts or will you mount the cradle solid to the block?

QUOTE (atsealevel914 @ Mar 21 2006, 04:06 PM)

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 15 2006, 10:33 PM) The transmission to block surface is about 1" forward of the "rear firewall" - where the rear enging seal is on a stock 914.  There should be plenty of room for the six.  There is almost a foot between the front of the engine and the firewall. The distance between the transmission to block surface and the front engine tin seal area is about 24-1/2" Just measured the length of the svx motor and its 21 1/2" I will get the cradle from you too. In your cradle design is the engine mount and tranny mount one piece? Are you retaining the subaru motor mounts or will you mount the cradle solid to the block?

The engine cradle will be separate from the transmission mount. The engine and transmission will be mounted solid to the cradle. The cradles will be mounted to the 914 body with whatever 914 mounts you like.

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Mar 21 2006, 11:26 AM)

This Subaru That's my next project! Imagine using the AWD trans to make a Syrcro from a regular van.

Keep me up to date on your project.

I just meet a person whom is finishing a VW Vanagon Syncro with a Audi MTM V6 Twin Turbo 420hp. Now that has to be a rocket, I was wondering how the trans holds up to all that power.

Do you think that if you can't turn around a ring and pinion in the Subaru trans box that maybe you could flip it up side down to get the wheels to trun in the other direction??? Something like what was done to lower the ride height on the 935's.
Do the bolt holes in the SVX and WRX engine line up if one flips the trans up side down?
Just a thought
I guess that you would still need to invent a shifter kit?

Quilmes

same mr2 shifter on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-MR2-...1QQcmdZViewItem


Item number: 8048321355

hill-holder feature on sub tranny - I assume it can simply be left unhooked??

The 550 spyder replica now has a Subaru 2.5 turbo and Kaaz LSD fitted in the FWD gearbox. It's running Subaru drive shafts with custom stub axles in the 914 hubs. The stub axles simply have a spine at each end, one end being 914 for the hub drive and the other being Subaru which fits into the outboard Subaru CV outer and is pinned. ( I'm sure you could machine the original 914 stub). A better way is to do what is being done by you guys and run 914 all the way out to the adaptor at the gearbox end as the 914 drive shafts look to be a bit bigger in dia. I'm currently redoing my CVs as they have some wear. I'll be fitting stock Subaru STI as they are a bit stronger than standard WRX. These CVs are currently running on a WRX drag car running 8.5 @ 141 MPH so they appear to be beefy enough.
As a side note, the 2.5 has great low and midrange power compared to the old 2.0 turbo. Interestingly my 2.5 1/4 times were not close to the 2.0ltr as the turbo runs out of puff at the top end and I don't think my ratios and 3.9 final drive is suited to the new power curve for the drags. Having said that, at the recent hillclimb which is what I really use my car for, we managed a new record beating the old by 3.5s. go figure???
The dyno told me that I have 250 hp at the rears but it just turned the track tires into smoke on the rollers so we suspect there may be a bit more HP there than shown.

The radiator was moved from sitting in front of the engine and picking up air from under the car to sitting at the front of the car and getting air from the nose (I cut out the molded oil cooler grill at the front). This got rid of all my over temperature problems I'd had in the past. Should have done it long ago...........

Other questions while I'm here.....
Are the 914 rear wheel bearings (double row angular contact) a standard size or are they only available as a Porsche part?
Are there aftermarket rear trailing arm bushes available in a harder material?
cheers from downunder

QUOTE (speedster356 @ Mar 29 2006, 03:54 AM)

The 550 spyder replica now has a Subaru 2.5 turbo and Kaaz LSD fitted in the FWD gearbox. It's running Subaru drive shafts with custom stub axles in the 914 hubs. The stub axles simply have a spine at each end, one end being 914 for the hub drive and the other being Subaru which fits into the outboard Subaru CV outer and is pinned. ( I'm sure you could machine the original 914 stub). A better way is to do what is being done by you guys and run 914 all the way out to the adaptor at the gearbox end as the 914 drive shafts look to be a bit bigger in dia. I'm currently redoing my CVs as they have some wear. I'll be fitting stock Subaru STI as they are a bit stronger than standard WRX. These CVs are currently running on a WRX drag car running 8.5 @ 141 MPH so they appear to be beefy enough. As a side note, the 2.5 has great low and midrange power compared to the old 2.0 turbo. Interestingly my 2.5 1/4 times were not close to the 2.0ltr as the turbo runs out of puff at the top end and I don't think my ratios and 3.9 final drive is suited to the new power curve for the drags. Having said that, at the recent hillclimb which is what I really use my car for, we managed a new record beating the old by 3.5s. go figure??? The dyno told me that I have 250 hp at the rears but it just turned the track tires into smoke on the rollers so we suspect there may be a bit more HP there than shown. The radiator was moved from sitting in front of the engine and picking up air from under the car to sitting at the front of the car and getting air from the nose (I cut out the molded oil cooler grill at the front). This got rid of all my over temperature problems I'd had in the past. Should have done it long ago........... Other questions while I'm here..... Are the 914 rear wheel bearings (double row angular contact) a standard size or are they only available as a Porsche part? Are there aftermarket rear trailing arm bushes available in a harder material? cheers from downunder

How is that Kaaz lsd diff? Is that the one with the 2-way 1.5-way setup option?
That car sounds like a blast to drive.
What size is the radiator in your car? I am planning on running a very large single row radiator in mine to maximize the limited air flow in front of the radiator.
There are several hard material bushings for the trailing arms - there was a thread last week or so on the virtues of each type.

I was working on the car this evening hoping to get the second flange mockup and axle setup finished so I can make full travel measurements before having the flanges made when I discovered that I got an axle from an automatic bus. It's a 1/2" to short! This and my tube bender dies are the wrong ones and need to go back.
Hopefully get another axle tomarrow so I can at least get that stuff done.

The Kaaz is a 1.5 way. The radiator is a triple row all aluminium, it's actually an aftermarket radiator for a Nissan 200 that happened to be on sale very cheaply at the time, I added a couple of 12" aftermarket fans, the inlet and outlet were only 1 3/8" but seem to be quite adequate. Yes thats a good idea increasing the frontal area of the radiator and reducing the core thickness.
The VW Beetle conversions here with the EJ20T are running Holden Camira (Opal 4 cyl), Alfa and the like radiators and are finding that the temps are actually to low!
Ensure there's plenty of air flow in and plenty of exit flow.
Better get back to fitting the new 914 rear wheel bearing........I've been looking at it all afternoon and I'm buggered if I can see the solid gold that this bearings made of
Cheers

Found the limit of the Subaru FWD box yesterday. Had a practise day at a local circuit and was into about lap 20 of the second session of the day (about 1m.08s laps) when 3rd gear started clicking badly so it looks like I've lost a tooth or more. The box was red hot to the touch, I wonder if an oil cooler and pump would have helped?
I'll bury it with full honours.......2 seasons of hillclimbs (1st and 2nd gear prestart burnouts), 30 passes on the 1/4 mile, half a dozen supersprints all with over 200 HP at the wheels....that $100 secondhand gearbox served me well The price seems to have gone up, I now have to pay $200 for it's replacement.

Sweet! guess I wont have any problems with mine on the street. Can you tell me which lsd fits our FWD tranny (90-94 legacy)?

KAAZ only list the one front LSD, the same part number for all the EJ range of 5 speed gearboxes.
Cusco also make an LSD or I think an STI viscous front LSD will fit?

$200 for a tranny - is that great or what ?

I have two 914 I want to put EJ22's and 5spd fwd tranny's into.

Nice to hear the fwd 5spd can handle that much : )

I won't be racing - just touring around town and some infrequent longish trips.

I pull my 2.0 tomorrow to sell to another club member.

I plan to replace the plastic fuel lines - first chance I get.

Went to pick up my secondhand FWD box today but it's not a Liberty FWD but a smaller EJ 1.6 ltr FWD box. The bellhousing bolting is the same but it has a different gearbox housing so my existing shifter and g/box mounts won't fit!
So I'll have to use my other spare FWD box and rob the required gearset components from it to make a good box again.
My question to Porcharu is what was the reason the FWD rear housing didn't fit on the AWD box? You mentioned with some machining it might fit? The reason I'm asking is that I have been offered an rebuilt WRX AWD box with new STI gearset complete with a front LSD, it's missing the centre diff but that's perfect for me! If I could fit the FWD rear housing with minimal machine work then this will fit straight back into my existing mounts/shifter etc and give me a stronger box.

The reason the FWD housing did not fit was because the lower shaft is longer on the AWD version. The FWD housing looks like would fit from the outside - but there is some extra aluminum in that area. I am almost certain that if you milled out that area it would fit just fine. Everything else is the same.

Thanks for that, I'll get that gearbox then. I'll have a spare end housing if anyone needs one.
As a side note, the third gear problem was 3 teeth off the input shaft gear, and one slight chip on second gear tooth from debris in the box.

pic of my ej22 engine and 5spd fwd tranny

oops - that was empty engine bay of my donor 1993 legacy wagon

that was my motor and tranny

Click to view attachment

Now the fun part begins.....wait untill you start stripping out the wiring loom, I had enough wire to electrify an office block!

Hey porscharu & others,

Yesterday I went off to a local pick-n-pull and got a (4wd) tranny. (I'll post more in my progress thread.) I wanted to get the splined cups off the inner CV joint as well (the part that the roll pin presses into, and which has the rubber boot clipped on), but the CV joint didn't just pull apart like I had hoped. (Thats probably a good thing, most of the time...) I didn't have enough paper towels to get all the slime out of the CV joint to see if there was a snap ring in there. Do you know of a picture or drawing that shows where the snap ring is located ?

Thanks,

Jeff (who just might be looking for a Saker coupling ring...)

The snap ring sits inside the outer about 5 mm back from the edge, you should be able to slide a small flat bladed screwdriver in (up one of the ball grooves) and catch the ring. Not hard to remove. What year was the car, as I have the complete Subaru workshop manuals on CD and should be able to find info as required.

wiring ...

I'll be refering back to Tony' thread : ) and luckily my buddy is an electrical engineer - this shoudl help

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=31579&st=80

Scott said...
that looks like you are mising a few plugs, but i cant see it all very well. dont tape it up too much you will probably have to open it up once to fix something.
-all the plugs i can think of are :
brain
2 o2 plugs
3 for engine connection
fuel pump relay
main realy
ignitor
obd connector
purge and pressure switching solinoids ( 2 plugs )
connection to relay board
-then loose wires are :
power
ground
speed sensor
temp sensor if you go stock
-then you need wires from the alt

Tony said...
Okay, so I will be simulating the following sensors..
Fuel level sender (0.12 to 4.95 volts)
Fuel Temp sender (2.5 to 3.8 volts)
Fuel Tank Pressure sender (2.3 to 2.7 volts)
Rear O2 sensor signal (0 - 0.9 volts)
Neutral position sensor (+12 in neutral, 0 when in gear)
Rear O2 heater sensor signal (0-1.0 volts)
Power Steering oil pressure sender (open/close)
There may be one more, I'm still finalizing the wiring...
Most of these wil use small 10-turn potentiometers to set the desired signal voltage, but I may end up using real metal-film resistors in the end, as they are a bit more reliable.

It's a 1990. I think it was an Impreza (forgot that part ). But at least I did make sure it was an EJ engine this time... Anyway, just knowing that there is a snap ring in there helps a lot. When I go back, I'll bring a butt-load of paper towels with me.


Also, I may be wrong about this, but it seemed like those cups are made from two different kinds of metal : the splined sleeve itself, which has to be super hard, looked like it was bonded in somehow to the rest of the cup. Don't know if this helps any, but I keep picturing scenarios where you machine this sleeve out and use it somehow...

Porscharu has a great idea for the axles - very professional looking, strong and adaptable - using - from the tranny - a custom flange, to a vw bus axle cv, to vw bus axle, to a 914 cv - and will be bolt on for those of us without many tools.

What I really like about what Porscharu is doing is he is making all the basic parts needed to install an EJ series engine and ((subaru tranny)) into a 914 without the need to make many mods to the chassis - this will be a first - a uniform standard so that anyone can do this conversion cleanly and for a decent price(TBD)

I just delivered to my local fabricating guru buddy a set of subaru axle assys and a set of 914 axles assys - he is gonna cut them in half - mill both axles (the 914 outter half and the subaru inner halfs) down to the same diameter and then press each side onto a - steel sleeve with 45 degree cuts at each end - and weld the sleeve to the axle halfs. This is an alternate solution - I hope it works.

This week I will be pulling another motor - the EJ22 motor in my 1995 legacy sedan parts car - the engine has a bad knock but lots of engine components are compatible with the 1993 EJ22 I will be using and it has a nice radiator in it too.

Like Jim said I'm working on a nice flange for this purpose. In the end I think it will actually be cheaper to use the custom flange. Unless you actually have the Subaru cups, vw cv flanges and the tools to machine and weld the pieces together for nothing but your time the custom flanges will be the way to go. I have the design complete and I am working on getting some quotes for the machine work.
When the blogs are back up take a look at mine for some pictures.

Jim, pix of your axles when done, please--I finally got my engine out of MI, and am waiting on the Subie axles (didn't get loaded in the box ). Wiring seems to be just time and being careful, Scott is right, don't wrap it up too much until it all sits in place......

John

Just an update on my conversion. I have the 2 liter turbo with 9:1 compression and 91 legacy fwd transmission. I decided to try the 944 (or bus) flanges cut and welded to the subaru inner cv housing. It's been a little over a month since I finished this and it hasn't failed me yet and I have been doing some real hard 1st and 2nd gear launches. I still have some tuning to do with MS II but the power is amazing.
My 2 cents

Fun isn't it! That's quite a high static comp your running. What's the engine specs? pistons/injectors/cams/turbo/boost levels etc? I had a great run with my FWD gearbox.
cheers from downunder

So I opened up the rear part my 1990 4WD tranny last night and looked around a little. I've got a question about how the 2WD conversion might affect oil handling. At the top of the section containing the center differential, there's a little plastic tray (kinda like a rain gutter) that catches oil slinging off the diff, and funnels it into the center of the main shaft. Here's a (crappy) photo :

Click to view attachment

This view is looking more or less downward into the tranny. The center diff has already been removed.

And here's where the oil goes. (I think that's the main shaft, right ?)

Click to view attachment

Anyway, my concern is that with the diff removed, no oil is gonna get slung up into the tray. So are we starving oil from the main shaft ? Anybody who has torn into a 2WD tranny : Is there some other way that oil gets fed into the center of the main shaft ?

I am assuming that is the static compression. The engine is a stock jdm twin turbo converted to single turbo (td04). Right now I am only running 8 psi. I tried 15psi but the clutch slipped at boost (i think). either that or boost leak at the bov. the injectors are i believe 420cc. i am in the middle of replacing the water pump right now so no tuning till that is done.
What pressure plate are you using?

I don't think it really matters. With the FWD kit installed the shaft turns the same speed as the gears (not always true with the center diff in place.) My transmission doesn't have the cover like yours.

great work guys is good to see that this conversion is taking off so well in the states but i suppose yhat it was only a matter of time

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Heres a couple of shots of my new trans, it's an 2000 STI AWD gearset and LSD (ex Bathurst 24hr race spare Subaru box) in a 2000 non turbo AWD housing with Saka adaptor and modded FWD rear housing. I've machined a spare FWD end housing so there is clearance around the extended length of the pinion shaft. Then weld in filler plates. I did this so I didn't have to change my existing gearbox mount, cable clutch, shifter and also means I have a spare FWD box that will drop straight in.

The AWD box with the FWD tail is an awesome idea. What mods did you have to do to the tail to get it to fit properly? Other than the fil plates. Or does it just bolt right on?

Just bolts right up after clearancing the rear for the long pinion shaft.

Cool! I knew it would work. Glad to see it done.
I have made a tiny bit of progress on my swap. This whole dad thing takes alot more time than I thought it would.

Yes, thanks Steve for the idea.

Time to wake this thread from the dead.

I have found a shop that is equiped to make some nice flanges. I am sending my prototype to them as an example and hope to have a quote soon (a pair of flanges too.)

I have been spending my spare time fixing up a nice (cosmetically) four door Volvo for a DD/kid hauler. Mueller came over and ripped out the interior and power steering of my old beater Volvo that was sold to the smog Nazi’s last weekend. Mike's enthusiasm is contagious and gave me a needed kick in pants to get stuff done. I have pretty much performed a “tub swap” on my Volvo’s. The POS that went to the crusher looked like it had been sitting in a pick-n-pull for about a year.

Steve

Just a bump to get this thread back on the front page. I have been going back and forth with details on the flanges with the shop engineer. The flanges will be good for 500HP!
Maybe we really can break a Suby tranny in a 914
- good thing they are relatively cheap and upgrade parts are available.

Still working on Volvo's - getting sick of it. At least the car is REALLY clean.

Hello all. This is my first posting here at 914world. I've just read all 20 pages of this thread. Phew. My brain hurts. Thanks to everyone for their informative contributions. You guys are awesome!!!

I've just acquired a 914 and I am very interested in the ideas posted here. I love (good) swaps, you can't beat the increased power, reliability and cost factor of a good swap.

Kennedy makes awesome transaxle adapters. I've used one on a 914 with turbo Ford 2.8v6 (years ago) and on my Chevy 2.8v6 powered Westy camper (still have it). But the idea of not having to use the adapter components and just using cheap, readily obtainable, relatively new Subarau engine AND transmission combinations...then simply swapping the COMBINED unit into a Porsche 914 seems just so nice...so simple.

Anyways,

1) Porcharu, any idea on when these might become available. Inquiring minds want to know.

2) nsyr, your conversion is awesome. I've searched this site and have found hardly any mention or discussion of what you've accomplished. Are you the first person to have successfully completed a Subaru engine AND Subaru transmission swap into a 914? BTW, I like your welded inner cv joint solution. I might do something similar if I ever do this conversion and Porcharu's flanges aren't yet available.

3) Is the Australian adapter (for the AWD trans) still readiily available? If not, it seems that FWD (90-95 Legacy) transmissions are still easily obtainable...at least here in Southern California.

4) The EG33 engine seems to be readily available and cheap $600 to $800. In fact I'm finding them to be a bit cheaper than the EJ25. Do (or could) the same transmissions (that have been discussed) also mate to the EG33? Would an EG33 and matching transmission fit in a 914?

5) Lastly, I've read several descriptions (on other sites) that the axles (with CV joints) don't need to be exactly in line. IOW its perfectly fine to move the transmission forwards, rearwards, upwards..or whatever, as needed. WITHIN reason of course. This should allow you more leeway on finding the ideal position for the engine/transmission. If you're not going to use a mid mounted radiator then it seems like it would be a good idea to move the engine/transmission forwards...better polar moment of inertia?

Cheers,
Donovan

goo to see this thred come back to life. I am waching closely, I want to do one of these in the future.


Has anyone adressed the shifting? cables? 914 adaption?

Keith

I would love an update on the status of this as well. PM sent to Porcharu.

I thought the consensus was that a radiator in the engine bay did not sufficiently cool the motor; especially turbocharged motors. I also thought that moving the motor and transaxle slightly forward and placing the radiator in front ala the Renegade kit actually improved the balance of the car.