Engine bay mounted radiator can work, possibly for the turbo motors, but my guess is you'd have to use an expensive radiator and not lower the car at all.

I think its a toss-up with respect to the Renegade positioning of the engine. The Renegade mount actually has the engine sitting at least 2.5 inches higher than if you go with the minimalist approach which includes cutting the oil pan, using custom exhaust, etc. While it does move the engine forward, the vertical increase may offset that. Ideally, forward and down would be the best.

-Tony

To the Porcharu gooroo, the Crimson Rocket smiles in your general direction.

I've been using the 2wd subaru transaxle for just over a year now and have had no problems. this car is my daily driver. since the stock clutch for this transmission wasn't designed to hold wrx engine power i had to upgrade to a stage 3 clutch. this clutch seems to hold just fine. as for shifting i am using an mr2 cable shifter. it is kind of sloppy shifting though. i think some sort of shift rod would be better for this.

do you have any pics. of the shifter setup and tranaxle adapter?

toon1, I've just been reading tons of stuff and here are some answers to your question:

Go here to see pics of nsyr's MR2 shifter:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...mp;#entry637697

Here's some info nsyr posted (on page 18) about how the cables go to the transaxle.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...mp;#entry637570

Those links are actually the same page. So just click on one and make sure to scroll up a little (or down a little) to see all the great pics that nsyr has shared with us. Thanks nsyr!!!

Also, nsyr is not using a transaxle adapter (901 trans to Subaru engine), instead he is using a FWD transmission from a Subaru. nsyr, would that be an 89-95 FWD Legacy?

it is from an early 90's legacy. if i had to do over again i would use the wrx transmission with stock clutch instead spending $400 on the stage 3 clutch.

I saw that the original Saker conversion kit (at least when this thread started back in '05) was only for the 5-spd gearboxes.
Does anyone know what the possibility is of doing this with the newer STI 6-spd boxes?
Does anyone make a kit?
If not, is there anything radically different about the design of the 6 that would make it near impossible to do as custom work?

What about the 2.5 STI motor, can it be transplanted into a 914 as easily as the 2.0?

I've got a line on a wrecked STI that I'd like to get to transplant into my 914. Should I do it, of stick with a WRX?

The 6 speed is different enough that the Saker parts don't work with it. If I remember correctly it (the 6 speed) has a fairly useless 1st gear - to low to be of any use in a light car.
I am sure that a decent machinist that has access to splining tools could make the adapter sleeve to convert the 6 speed to 2 wheel drive.

I just got word that my custom drive flanges to allow the use of stock bus axles with the suby 5 speed transaxle have been made. No prices yet.

Whats up with the flanges for the vw/914 axle? I have money!

Mike M

I wish I knew myself. I sent an email yesterday asking for the price. I hope to know soon.
Steve

now this is a thread i will read more of when i get home.

Being that i havent read it, i do have only one question right now. Everything else makes sense to me, but how does the clutch setup work out?

Meaning the mechanical function of you pressing the clutch pedal and the throw out bearing doing its job. Does the fork clear the trunk? Are you running hydraulic or cable and how is it routed?

thx.
_billy

Subaru used both cable and hydro clutch setups. I remember the fork on the cable setup hitting the trunk - but it has been a long time so I'm not positive. I was going to run an internal hydro release bearing (inside of the bellhousing) to avoid any hole cutting.
Steve

Steve and everyone else that has contributed to this thread, thank you very much, I had no idea this transplant has been attempted so far back. I started building a manx style buggy several months back and got interested in a mid engine application and have been studying mainly on nasioc and samba. My son hot rods an STI and I have almost one of every block used since 96 to study. We are trying to make 7500 a bullet proof event. Steve it looks like the pan on your motor is a 2.2. They seem to be about 1 and 1/2 inches deeper than a wrx pan. I have both. I built a 4 and 5/8 deep pan that is wide with swinging gates to control oil slosh on cornering and launch. I used a pan kit from Kennedy and a sbc claimer kit from Speedway Motors for the gates it holds a lot of oil at about the stock level. When you use the various shortened pans they usually run the level higher in the pan. Subie motors are not race motors out of the box. Just like any other production motor, it needs mods to be reliable when it is run at high rpms extensively. There's lots of good stuff on nasioc to help in this regard. It might be a rumor but I read that the early jdm sti transaxles had physically wider gears and better heat treating to withstand abuse on the early racing efforts. I used my son's first header on his sti which was new and very resonable on ebay, and shortened it to within about 5 inches of the block pan rails, now I will need to use a remote filter to keep it all even on the bottom. This is all for the dune buggy, maybe it won't need to be this short on the 914. I found a 75 914 1.8 locally that just was brought to texas from wyoming and colorado. It seems to have virtully no rust. It seems a shame to tear it up. It has 80k on it now. In 91 it had 50k and the motor had about 2k dollars redo and the body about 1k redo in the battery tray area. I have probably ever receipt ever written on it. Every big repair was done at a porsche shop. I just picked up a 96 ej20h motor and tranny with everything to go with it including axles. For the non subies thats twin turbo 260 to 280 hp stock. I am a good fabricater, but twin turbos will be tight. I am interested in your flanges and other stuff as soon as they are available.
Charlie

Congrats on your 914 charlie. seems like a great car you've got there.
As much as i like the idea of a suby conversion, performing that on the car you have is IMO quite a shame.
Think twice before doing it, that's an excellent specimen you've got.

Btw, i'm redoing my suby conversion, swapped my N/A JDM EJ20, for a turbocharged EJ20G along with a suby FWD tranny...

I know but it will save a lot of metalwork. I have spent most of my life saving junk and it will be nice to start with a really good shell. If it was a 2.0 or 914/6 or something really special I wouldn't. My son thought it is too nice to cut on also but he won't be the one grinding and welding. I don't have as much time and I want quicker results. It will be a lot of fabbing anyway for all the conversion stuff. I rarely find made up conversion parts that I like. I actually haven't seen any of renegade's stuff in person but I won't even think of buying anything like that without seeing it up close and that probably won't happen. Also I don't think they make a conversion that uses the subie tranny.

Charlie

Any updates about the axles, engine mounts, driving the cars, etc? My project is in the planning stage for the drivetrain components, so now would be a good time to source the parts needed for a FugiFerdy 914 type R!

Thanks;

Mike McBride

[/quote]
Also I don't think they make a conversion that uses the subie tranny.

Charlie
[/quote]

No, they don't. I e-mailed Scott at Renegade and asked about it. He said they thought about it but said that it would not fit and so they passed on the idea. Dana also told me that Renegade passed on it because of the fabrication needed to make it work; they already have beefed up 901s so may as well use what they knew.

I too am anxious for news on the availability of this kit. It is my hope to use a subie transmission with a WRX motor in my car as well.

so i called a machine shop near where i work and found that they can do axle resplining or adapter flanges for a good price. they are fairly busy and so werent interested in a huge ammount of orders but said 30 orders over some time they could probably do. anyhow, my two questions for you all are- has anyone measured the subaru CV shaft and seen if it could fit? i wonder because if all we had to do was respline it (assuming it was a bigger spline section than the 914s) is fairly easy and inexpensive. the shop told me that if it was just a matter of heat treating the subie shafts and lathing them then resplining em, about 150 or so per axle, possibly cheaper possibly more.

they actually build complete custom CV's for the military (extreme use for special forces) that run 1100 an axle, but that is so extreme he said it wouldnt be near that to build an axle for moderate power and real world useage.

the other option was to build a CV adapter plate to fit either the 914 CV shaft or the 944 CV shaft, he said no problem, bring in both axles and how long it has to be and he can make em, similar price to the 150 (he said likely cheaper if it's a simple design).

my main thing is- does anyone have exact measurements for the subie output stubs (and inside diameter of the oil seals on em)? and also the lengths between them and the wheel bearing on the 914? I've found some specs on 914 axles, but if anyone has ready facts i'd appreciate it. i'm slowly cobbling together things for this swap and saw that it had kind of stalled on the board....

Scott

Hi Scott, It's nice that you are trying to work this out. The only problem that I can see is that the overall length will be different for each conversion because the motor and tranny can be put in many different positions. The general idea is good but you will need to make your own measurements for your application. As you have been reading Porscharu has already fabbed up a prototype flange to take the subie axles but the machine shop fizzled. I haven't gotten that far yet to study the possibilities but I'm sure others have.

Charlie

That someone is ME. The actual length of the adapter/axle is not that big of a deal as long as the engine is in the "correct" location - IE centered on the axle centerline. I am still working on getting someone to make these dang parts.
Steve

wahoo, finally!! Must be xmas - Subie/ 914 adaptor!!!!!!

I was checking my email and what do I see? Something from the shop that I had given up on.

"Steve, after many backwards updates from our manufacturer (prototypes they've proven slowest at!, but their knowledge and skill I can't step away from) I'm VERY happy to tell you they're done"

I am supposed to have pictures and prices Friday. I will post them once I have them.
Finally after over a year - the magic part is completed!! I guess I will have to start working on the car again.

The Golden goose has laid the golden egg!!!

I will be a supporter and a customer when the time comes!

Thanks for leading the Charge!

Nate

Me too probably.

Charlie

This is awesome news. Ive been following this effort since the begining. I need a set of these adaptors as soon as they are available. Thank you sir.

where is the pics??? you know I'll be in.

Nothing yet - he didn't say Friday December the 7th 2007. Hope I hear something in the morning.

Steve, will you be selling the axle assemblies too?

What are the gear ratio's of the subie tranny? I would suspect they are taller that the 914.

The axle assemblies are just stock VW Bus axles. Custom axles were one of the things I wanted to avoid at almost any cost. If you use the 944 stub axles the bus axles assemblies will just bolt in. If you want to retain the stock 914 stubs (or reuse your redrilled stuff) all you need to do is pop off the outer CV add a small ring spacer (I will make these for a few $) and slip it onto the bus axle.

Here they are!!!

No pricing yet, but I can guess they will not be cheap.

Look here for Subi gear ration stuff. Subi Gears

And here for Porsche ratiosPorsche gears

I posted this a while ago.

Here are the "way to tall gears"
US WRX (stock tire 205/55-16) Tire circumference is calculated
Gear Ratio Final drive Total ratio Tire Circ. Rev./Mile
1st 3.454 3.9 13.4706 78.15639 10920.38
2nd 1.947 3.9 7.5933 78.15639 6155.753
3rd 1.366 3.9 5.3274 78.15639 4318.828
4th 0.972 3.9 3.7908 78.15639 3073.134
5th 0.738 3.9 2.8782 78.15639 2333.306

I don't have the 901 ratios handy but I remember they were pretty close if you have the 4.11 or 4.44 final drive in the Suby. I think many of the Legacy FWD had taller gears (3.7 final drive)
The NA small engine (like 1.8l) transmissions had the "better" gear ratios (closer and lower final drive)

Steve what is the black coating? They really look nice. When will they be available as just a set? I will need to find longer axles to go with them but don't have the length figgured yet.

Charliew

I don't kwow what the black coating is, probably a rust inhibitor or that gunmetal bluing stuff. That is a picture that the shop emailed me, I havn't seen the parts myself.
Why do you need longer axles?

Steve

The black coating is probably a black oxide treatment.
The flanges look Great!

What holds them onto the splined inner stub? Circlip?

Jeff

I think you are right, couldn't think of that term before posting. The flanges are held on with a roll pin (a big one) driven thru the flange and the stub axle.
Steve

I got the pricing from the shop. I am paying $575 for the first pair. If I can get buyers for 5 sets the price will be $495 including shipping within the US. Delivery will be 3-4 weeks but I would plan on twice that much time.
Steve

Im definately in, when can i send you the money?

I'm in.....

Some details on the flanges.
"Turned from aircraft quality chromoly billet (4340) then vacuum heat treated and
chryogenically treated to -300F for maximum strength and toughness"

go over my options on the cvs again, i know boring,,, I'm re-using the -4 pieces, swing arm already done and I have brand new 914 cv's for outboard.

bus or 944 inboard, 930's??, and the spacer for the 914 cv??

Go back to page 22 and take a look an the "hybrid axle"
Magic flange -> bus or 944 cv -> bus axle -> 4mm cv spacer -> 914-4 outer cv. Done.

930 cv's use a different spline count and are 108mm in diameter (I think) the bus and 944 are 100mm. It would be pretty simple to make a 100mm to 108 mm adapter plate if you really wanted to use the 930 cv's. If you want I can get a price on making a set for 930cv's - hopefully would take less than a year.

Steve

no I'm good....got a pic of the spacer and $$

If you want to get on the list for the first buy just PM me. I will wait until we have 5 pairs sold then order. If I can get more than 5 orders the price will go down.

[quote name='Porcharu' date='Dec 12 2007, 03:01 PM' post='976265']
[quote name='charliew' post='976262' date='Dec 12 2007, 12:47 PM']
[quote name='Porcharu' post='976209' date='Dec 12 2007, 01:00 PM']
Here they are!!!

No pricing yet, but I can guess they will not be cheap.
[/quote]

Steve what is the black coating? They really look nice. When will they be available as just a set? I will need to find longer axles to go with them but don't have the length figgured yet.

Charliew
[/quote


I don't kwow what the black coating is, probably a rust inhibitor or that gunmetal bluing stuff. That is a picture that the shop emailed me, I havn't seen the parts myself.
Why do you need longer axles?

Steve
[/quote]

I'm going to try to move the motor further forward than the "straight axle position" and also up higher in the body I think. Anyway I'm in for the adapters, maybe we can get 10 or more sets and a little cheaper price.

Charliew

[/quote]

I'm going to try to move the motor further forward than the "straight axle position" and also up higher in the body I think. Anyway I'm in for the adapters, maybe we can get 10 or more sets and a little cheaper price.

Charliew
[/quote]

Any higher up than I have the engine mounted and you will be cutting into the body. Longer axles should be a non issue with the huge aftermarket of buggy parts.
Steve

[quote name='Porcharu' date='Dec 14 2007, 11:02 PM' post='977083']
[/quote]

I'm going to try to move the motor further forward than the "straight axle position" and also up higher in the body I think. Anyway I'm in for the adapters, maybe we can get 10 or more sets and a little cheaper price.

Charliew
[/quote]

Any higher up than I have the engine mounted and you will be cutting into the body. Longer axles should be a non issue with the huge aftermarket of buggy parts.
Steve
[/quote]

I will probably make a removable floor for the front part of the trunk and also I would like to make a rear flipping and swinging down trunk lid to make working on the motor and tranny easier. Theres a really nice v8 black conversion that uses one. I hope he sends me a little info on it to help get me started on the mechanism. Let me know when you need the money for the great adapters.

Charliew

bmw hood hinges mounted out back has been done, can we say pick and pull

[/quote]

I will probably make a removable floor for the front part of the trunk and also I would like to make a rear flipping and swinging down trunk lid to make working on the motor and tranny easier. Theres a really nice v8 black conversion that uses one. I hope he sends me a little info on it to help get me started on the mechanism. Let me know when you need the money for the great adapters.

Charliew
[/quote]

Like this one? He is in the bay area somewhere. I saw this at Mikes BBQ during the heat wave two summers ago. I remember when I left at 3 P.M. my trucks temp gauge said 114 degrees outside temp and it hit 117 on the way home!
Steve

Steve,
Just wondering if the conversion 'Kit' is still your goal or if the Flanges are the final project?
Awesome job on spearheading this project!!!

Nate