Have the same bender.

Was going to do the GT brackets but just built one that worked exclusively with my mufflers..

WOW

I just saw this thread and quickly scanned a page or two. Of course I'm going to have to read the entire thing.

I'm still looking for just the right place to hang this.

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Here's some quick engine update pics. Still some things left to do, then it's reassembly time!

Please excuse the OT
Clay I recall seeing a NOS MFI heat exchanger for a 6 (right side) on a european site
probably ten years ago. It had a large second chamber for warm-up. Properly
manufactured. Quite unusual.
Is that what you have ?
Perhaps a pic ?
Is the left side different too ?

I saw a similar pic. Was it on Brutus?

O/T>> On a 916 with the 2.4 mfi, the R/ side HB with the small bump + a short 1" dia. (approx) nipple , connects to a mating hose ending at the Aneroid housing of the mfi mechanical pump. I've seen this on the ex-Otis yellow 916, and on my buddy's 2.4 mfi 9146gt.

I will see if I can get up in the attic and take some pictures. They are off the car because the MFI motor is not in it any more.

The left heat exchanger is no different than a stock six HE. What I figure is Porsche started making the MFI HEs for the 916 program. When it got cancelled, then just put them into the spares for the 914-6 and sold them.

Armando has the pic.

Wowzer! I have never seen one of those heat exchangers. MFI in a 6 would be cool.

BTDT. It is really cool. And a b1tch to live with on a daily basis.

Is that an additional (1") nipple on the far right ?
Is that a perforated area on the right side of the added chamber ?
Very interesting.

Indeed. Most fun 914 I have driven was a 2.2S with MFI and short gears in a 901, which brought more smiles than a 916 did with a 2.4S with MFI and a 915.




Do dish…

Oh how soon we forget......

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I've got a 2.7 MFI in my 914 using Ben's bigger heat exchangers.
The shop that did the install added a nipple to supply the warm air to the MFI pump so that it leans out when the engine gets up to operating temp.

It starts easily and is perfectly fine on the street.
The "only" downside is that MFI runs on the rich side, so fuel mileage isn't so hot.

That is perfect ! Beautiful !
The heat exchanger looks to have two features that MFI normally requires.
The larger nipple for cold start and the smaller one to air filter intake.

As mentioned the nipple on the right is for supplying heat to the cold start solenoid on the mfi pump which is a thermostat with a bunch of expanding washers that move the main rack within the pump to lean out or of course enrichen when cold.

The middle chamber will be your regular cabin heat.

The left preheat chamber supplies warm air to the MFI 'flapper box' which preheats the combustion chamber and also has a built in thermostat to close the flapper and supply fresher cool air in for combustion. In most warm air areas people remove this and/or even remove the cold start solenoid.

I love MFI...if in great order it runs awesome, sound even better and has great throttle response...its a 50 plus year old analog computer. I find mileage really good but because of that great throttle none of us drive it for mileage

The perforated screen is to allow air to come in and be heated since that chamber connects to essentially the combustion chamber during cold operation.

New 9146-gt (FIA style) headers , makes it easier for the engine dyno guy to set a/F ratios. These are now a regular MSDS production part. Just dropped off at the Ceramic coating contractor. Originals are in storage, easy to swap out.

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Now, that's pretty awesome.

Interesting HE, I never knew about those !

2.4L MFI engine with 195HP:

It is cold out and early on a Sunday morning. I am going to an AX an hour away so I get up 30 minutes earlier than I normally would just to get the 914 started and warmed up. I roll it out of the garage and down the driveway into the street so I don't disturb my neighbors with the Bursch MFI exhaust noise.

The engine has 2.2 mag stacks on it, with K&N watershield air cleaners. But I don't have the "firestarter" cold start system hooked up. So I spray ether under each watershield. Jump in and try to start it. It coughs, spits, and dies. Repeat the ether treatment. It coughs, spits and starts to sputter on 3 cylinders. Set the hand throttle and sit there in the cold car, waiting. Slowly it would start to run on 4, then on 5 and finally on 6. Slowly lower the hand throttle as it warms up.

I can't really give it any throttle because it would be too loud. So I keep the hand throttle up at about 1500 rpm and ease it out of the neighborhood and down the road. I actually have heat exchangers so I can turn on the heat. But not much comes out. 1500 rpm doesn't move much air through the HEs on a cold morning. I finally get out to the main road, and I start driving normally.

A cop stops me and asks why I am going so fast and so loud this early in the morning. I explain that the heat output is tied to the engine fan speed. He chuckles and lets me go with a warning to "keep the noise and the speed down".

At the AX, I work the first run group, and drive the second run group. So I go off and work. When I get done, I have minutes to go through the whole ether and repeated restarts to get a now cold engine fired up and running so I can make my runs. First run is terrible. I don't want to push a cold engine.

I let it sit and idle between runs to get it to operating temp. Second through

I stop for gas on the way home. 16MPG on a good day. Gas is 3.50 a gallon too. AX cost was about 1 3/4 tank of gas.


4.0L Motronic Engine with 430HP:

I am going to an AX an hour away. I get up with enough time to get to the AX and stop for something to eat.

I walk out to the garage, get in the car, push the door opener button, and start the car. It idles smoothly with no drama.

I am able to back out of the garage, and drive away. I am able to do more than just idle out of the neighborhood, but I don't hammer it because it is still cold.

No heat, but an electrically heated jacket keeps me warm enough. And the alternator is big enough to handle the extra load from the jacket.

I keep the speed down, and the supertrapps are not too loud because the RPMs are low. The cop watches me go by but doesn't do anything else.

At the AX, I work first and run second. After working, the car is cold. I start it up and it idles smoothly while I get myself strapped in and ready to run. I make my first run, it is slow because of cold tires. The rest of the runs are good, but lots of wheelspin. I have to finish the chassis setup one of these days.

I don't have to stop for gas on the way home because it gets 31 MPG. Gas is now 1.75 a gallon. AX costs, including travel, is one tank of gas.

For sheer fun factor and sound factor, the MFI wins, hands down.

For practicality, the Motronic 4.0L engine is the better choice.

I totally get the carburetors dance - I did that with my 2nd Six when I was young and did not mind that stuff as much. Nothing sounds like a 6 with carburetors.

Glad you had a good time and on the first outing met a cop with good perspective and the ability to use discretion. I am afraid they are becoming few and far between these days.

In Clay's scenarios, the first just sounds like a much more interesting life. I'd take the 2.4L MFI as my 1st choice.

Working in the industry for last 25 years, I've seen the trend evolve. More HP, better Fuel Economy, and cars have become easier and safer to drive even with more HP due to the electronic nannies.

Personally, I've gravitated to motorcycles, motorcyle racing, and vintage cars to regain that simple joy that I feel has been lost with modern cars as this trend evolved.

Don't get me wrong, totally appreciate a DD that is reliable, has heat, and is quiet and easy to drive on long trips. Just need somthing in my life to offset the boredom.

I lived with the MFI for years. Loved driving it. The throttle response was phenomenal. But as I get older, I want things to be a bit easier.

For years I bragged that the only computer in my car was in the radio. The factory six we have has no computers at all. Now my big six has two computers, one in the radio, and one to run the motor.

I got asked why I didn't put a PDK in when I built the big motor. I said computers were great, but I only want them doing engine management, not driving for me. I like the raw, basic feel of a 914. I won't even put in power windows. But the engine management is just that much better.

Clay

Back from ceramic coating, our 914 - 6 GT FIA style headers are ready to be put on #40!

The original Le Mans headers will be placed on display.

Work of art.

as usual with Marty, one of the pillars of the 914 community all of these years

Thanks guys, @dr914@autoatlanta.com , like they say "If you love your job"...
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That is a great picture/ad. Not sure I remember seeing that before but wow love it..

Thank you Ben @mb911 !
Just a thumbnail sketch that I pinned on the wall at my first shop location. I was coming up with several concepts for the biz logo.
During graphic arts school, I designed logos for a bunch of friends for their start-up businesses, including TriMil Exhaust (original owners)... still might be in current use today

@mb911 ...Tri Mil exhaust logo still current today !
My friend (the late) Joe Miller wanted an upbeat, eye catching, patriotic colors, design for his VW air cooled exhaust business. He came up with the name by way of himself and his 2 sons (3 Millers=Tri Mil). He insisted that Wile E. Coyote appeared in the logo, against my warning of copyright infringement...I designed it as he liked. Today the logo appears like you see it here...WB Studios put the skids to the crafty Cyote'...replaced by the checkered flag !
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Marty is more than a pillar of the Porsche community. His Datsun headers are the real shit! I've been talking you up on the Datsun forums Marty. Hope you still have some on the shelf!

Thx Rob !
We have decent stock on 510, 240Z and 240Z competition /large tube headers. Shipping still running on time
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Just stumbled on this fantastic thread - thank you for sharing, Marty!

This just makes my heart happy, seeing all those boxed headers ready to go, made right here in CA. And for another reason: 240Zs are cool, and sound insane when uncorked. The best sounding car on the Targa Newfoundland in 2003 was, without question, a vintage 240 with straight pipes. Not the Porsches, BMWs, etc etc.

Wonder if that Datsun had MSDS headers as well?

Marty you have Datsun 510 Headers? Did not see them on your site

details?

Yes on the 510's, I'll send a pm over to you

Glad I read this thread- I'm looking for headers for my '72 911T targa, stock with MFI. Does it come with the head and muffler gaskets or do I get them separately?
TIA.

Stu, we have you covered with MSDS 911 racing exhaust headers !
I believe your eMail inbox has the details
Marty
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How will you do the preheat for MFI with just headers?

@Horizontally-opposed We also have the specs + assembly components to build FIA spec 510 Datsun competition headers. No calls for those, probably not too many Orig BRE Historic 510s around with the FIA head
Gotta love the air cooled Porsche cult , for the sheer numbers of International followers

@mb911 some of my mfi clients steal a bit of a heat off of the "S" pipe, using a fabricated clamp-on style "Heat riser" tube, into a 1" hose going topside.

How will you do the preheat for MFI with just headers?
[/quote]

Don't have the pre-heat hooked up now- that part is closed off. Not a problem here in the desert!!

Man you have been into some cool stuff over the years, and now #40

I have actually had my hands on at least two DATSUN comp FIA heads the ports on them are so big that they have fallen out of favor with tuners these days. besides you need the matching header and manifold to really use them. cool stuff though.!

PM replied to.

Datsun 510 competition/ FIA exhaust port difference , compared to the 510 street version header ports are day and night.
Don't forget big Cam profiles, larger valves + ported heads, larger venturi carbs, and operating mostly W/O/T will require getting all of that combustion moving out of the exhaust stream a lot quicker !
OD of the FIA header is 1.75", which is the tube size we build headers for a 3.6/3.8/4.0 air cooled flat six
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French plates?

@Archie mais Ouis ¡

Formidable, mon brave!

Engine room update
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Interesting find in the mfi-drive cover plate; 3 French 1/2 Francs used as shim spacers
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