I see that the corner needs to be trimmed for clearance to the upper left of the clutch MC.

I'm guessing that you are using the stock clutch pedal to operate the hydraulic clutch, and that it bolts on through the firewall? If so, I would think I would use between 1/8", and 3/16" material?

Planning on having my Nieces's hubby do the work, since he was the top tech at the chevy garage, till Delmar was too cheap to give him a raise, and opened up his own shop then. Reasonable labor, and some freebies......

I was just trying to do some of the leg work for him, and make some of the stuff that I can. Almost done with the water logs. Can do this MC bracket, but not sure on the motor mount, w/o any measurements. Can't tell just by looking at a picture.

It looks like this:

OEM Honda Clutch MC

1993ish to 2000 Civic. The OEM is Nissin/Adler (NOT Nissan!), but you can get a bunch of aftermarket ones for ~$25 or so, or a used one for about $25. Just avoid the Omni aftermarket brand.

There are a few other bits you need. I'll post the full list once I get mine installed.

Yes on all. Replace the pedal bolts with longer ones also.


Well actually you can. You need to go from the front motor mount bolt holes to the rear transmission support bolts. Your bends will be what you make them. I used 4130 Chromoly and bent mine as far as my cheap ass bender would allow, about 37'. It's somewhere in this thread.

Thx for posting that Chris.

At Rockauto, I can get a Dorman, MC, and Slave for about $29.00. I noticed the Master is 5/8" bore, and the slave is 3/4" bore. Is that typically how it should be?

How do I know if this slave will bolt up to a Boxster trans, or are they all pretty much the same?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.p...&cc=3299353

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.p...&cc=3299353

Longer bolts to go through the plate that positions the two cylinders together?

It appears that I may be able to utilize part/most, of the old Subie cradle in addition to the motor mount for the LS to help stiffen things up a bit. I do have the long kit installed in the cab.

On the old 3.6 conversion, I had the frame rails that plug welded in on the longs, and tied into the rear trailing arms.

You'll need to use the slave cylinder from the Boxster trans. It looks totally different. We are using Subaru slave cylinders with the Honda master and it works fine (with Subie transes obviously). Not sure what the "throw" requirements are for the Boxster trans but I think Bob is installing a Boxster 6 speed in his LS1 car. Maybe he can tell you what MC he is using. That would be the only thing to be sure of before you commit to the Honda MC. Just need to be sure you can get clutch fully depressed.

The suby slave I have, has a 13/16 (.812) stamped on it. I recall seeing something like 11/16 for the suby MC. Here it is: http://www.licmotorsports.com/sites/defaul...on%2056-372.pdf see: page 2
That is why I chose the .700 Tilton over the 3/4, I like easy.
Now, you guys have me thinking, it needs more than .050 and I will have a hard clutch?

Kent, If I can get my axles / CVs worked out and tranies swapped we could hook up and do some suby swapping.

I'm running a 5/8" master on my Boxster tranny. The slave for the Boxster and the VW Passat (1997-2001) is the same. The Passat unit is a fraction of the price. The Passat unit will fit both Boxster/Cayman 5 & 6 speed trannies up to 2008 for sure. Not sure about newer.

Oh crud that's right Mike, how could I forget you have a Boxster trans? So Mike is running a 5/8 master, same as the Honda, and a stock VW/Audi/Porsche slave.

Mike Birdwell - The Subie clutch master is 5/8 in the cases that I saw in my limited research of 200-2006 transmissions. For a while we were getting direction that the master and slave cylinders had to match but they do not for Subaru. The 11/16 was probably out there because Kent's and my slave cylinders are 11/16. Turns out that has no bearing. Seems like 5/8 is the ticket to smooth, easy to push as long as you have the "throw"to fully engage the clutch.

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Longer bolts to go through the plate that positions the two cylinders together?

There are two bolts that are spot welded to the pedal assm that the brake MC bolts to. R&R those two w/ bolts 8-10mm longer. Hint: Use an old MC to reposition the new bolts.


Kent, If I can get my axles / CVs worked out and tranies swapped we could hook up and do some suby swapping.
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I was hoping we could at least get our own National Holiday after that ordeal.

Will the clutch slave cylinder (Dorman) from Rockauto work, or is the bolt pattern the wrong way to work on the Boxster trans? Ooops, probably not.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.p...&cc=3299353

I guess the plan is to get a Honda Civic CMC, and VW CSC, since the VW CSC is alreay being used, it should have enough throw?

To make the large hole for the new resident, the CMC, are they using a hole saw from the cab side or underneath the car to cut it out?
Once I get the correct measurements for the plate, then I can go forward on that part.

If a person gets the Honda CMC, where do they acquire the reservoir from, or can that be gotten at a local auto parts store?

The "throw" is related to the MC. The smaller the MC the longer the throw to move the same volume of fluid, so the issue is whether or not the 914 stock clutch pedal has enough travel to push the 5/8 master far enough to fully engage the clutch. Sounds like others who know more than me about your setup are using 5/8 MC so theoretically you should be good.

You really have to use a VW/Audi/Porsche (same part it sounds like) on your trans. Using aftermarket or adapting one would be a huge pain.

You can use an aftermarket reservoir. I will get the stock hose dimension today. I bought a used Honda one on e-bay. $18.

Hi Kent I got all my coolant stuff corrected per Bob's instructions. Turning the key soon! No worries, still have brakes, shifter, etc to do.

Given those years, a bit of overlap, it is the 2nd, or most expensive style one that I need for the trans, correct?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Clutch-Slave-C...ebf&vxp=mtr


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Clutch-Slave-C...f38&vxp=mtr

This one?

I threw in the rear carpet and liner after trimming to fit around some items. It will look much better with new carpet but that will come later. I will need all new rubber seals, carpet, paint, tires n wheels to get up to speed but this is good for now.

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The best part was this; the top fits in it's OG location.

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Might as well start posting some pic's on modifying the plate. Keep the bolts/nuts you used to mount the Wilwood MC to the plate. They are the same length/diameter. I cut 2 small tabs and beveled the edges before welding. You will need to grind it flat afterwards so the bevel is structural. Clamps them in place then move around with your spot welds, remove the clamps and weld. Then grind it smooth as shown.
**** More when the MC arrives.......

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This is a good time to point out what I believe is a poor design with the Wilwood reservoir. The inner piece which holds the "single o-ring" isn't strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by the clamp. As it gives the piece takes on a tapered shape pushing the reservoir up and away from the base. Notice the 6mm gap? As it pushes up, the o-ring ends up below the hose clamp as you can see in the 2nd pic below.

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I think I recognize that plate! Dang that looks nice.

Yeah totally agree on the reservoir o-ring. It's the same on the MC itself. And if you use a pressure bleeder you won't like what happens AT ALL.

Trunk is looking good Kent! I think I will use your half-canister to cover my starter and clutch MC holes in the trunk. Bunch of seal sealer and paint and it'll be barely noticeable.

This is a good time to point out what I believe is a poor design with the Wilwood reservoir. The inner piece which holds the "single o-ring" isn't strong enough to withstand the forces placed upon it by the clamp. As it gives the piece takes on a tapered shape pushing the reservoir up and away from the base. Notice the 6mm gap? As it pushes up, the o-ring ends up below the hose clamp as you can see in the 2nd pic below.

I don't know if it would be a good idea or not, but could a person use some of that purple gunk that plumbers put on pvc to glue it together, to seal it??

I've worked with six of the Wilwood reservoirs and have had no problems at all. You may be a little too tight with the clamp.

I found the 2nd cover I made ( the black square one) allows for easy future repairs that the smaller one(s) did not.


No. That purple stuff is an acetone based primer intended for vinyl plastics and is not a glue. Dirko might possibly work but I'd need to read up on it, first.


The GA models are known to be of a better quality. Honestly Bob the unit leaked before the tightening began. True the reservoir rose as it was tightened but I could not find a "happy medium" where it would not leak. Not crazy about that single o-ring design either.

My reservoir leaked ALL the fluid out before I caught it. I was very relieved when I discovered it was just the clamp. I haven't filled it back up yet because I didn't think of a good fix.

I certainly might have under-tightened mine and then overtightened it. Still don't like that kind but I get why they make it that way.

PM Chris. He'll get ya set up with the Honda part #'s and links. That freaking brake fluid is like a time bomb waiting to go off. Luckily the fluid from mine held on to the bottom of the hose until clear of the car. Well, one little spot beneath the tank which I caught in time. I wasn't too f*^$% happy about pulling the gas tank at 2100hr's when I noticed the leak.

Is center to center on the MC'S (1 1/2" holes) 91MM so when I hole saw out the other hole, I get it the correct distance over so it is in line with where it hooks up at? Also, vertical, where did you measure from to get it in the correct location?

91 Millimeters (mm)
=
3.58268 Inches (in)

I'll measure that when the new MC arrives. Mine is installed so I can't get that for you right now. Chris said it was shipped a few days ago so maybe manana.

I wonder if a person could just measure on the pedal assembly where the two linkage parts are, from center to center on that?

It's a little more complicated than that. Makes it a lot easier if you just have the dimensions of the bracket.

Hey Kent, check today's stack of mail...or your front door/bushes/etc. Tracking says it was delivered today USPS.

I got Chris' new MC today so I'll pick up where I left off. Mine had screw in studs but this one has pressed in studs. Otherwise no difference. This is what I used; a MC, the modified plate, a clevis, an 8x1.25x16mm coupling nut (aka rod socket in SAE).

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A pic of the MC with press in studs in place

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There is a step on the backside that makes for an uneven surface to press against. You can see step where the washer is held.

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When viewed from the end, the step is a semi circle so I cut this 5/16" washer in half

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Set it beneath the impact socket that the stud will pass thru

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Place the MC on the plate and match drill 5/16" / 8mm holes.

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While you still have the bit chucked up drill the threads out of the clevis. It will guide itself but keep a good gripe on it with pliers or vice grips.

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Make sure the clevis will slide freely down the threaded shaft.

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Bevel the ends of the clevis and nut

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Take one of the studs you just pressed out, thread it thru the nut and let it pass into the clevis so as to align the 2 pieces then clamp in place and weld. Get the stud out after the first tack so you don't weld it in place. That would suck. Grind off excess neatly so the clip will slide back over the clevis.

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Should end up like this

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I think this is the measurement that you needed.

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Great work Kent! Thanks for fixing that up for me!

91MM center to center, + 34 + 18 = 143
210-143 =67. As the picture is laying, on the RH side must be 67 to the center of the 1 1/2 hole, but seems out of whack for 78 mm to be in as far as it is marked, or is it just me?? According to the dimensions on the picture.

I cut my piece 8 1/4" X 3 9/16", but marking it from the left hand side seems to leave a lot running wild on the RH side.

Are the holes about 3 9/16" center to center?
I'm referring to the original pattern that the Wilwood, will use back on page 10.

Closer to 3 3/8". Just center the hole with the clutch pedal arm. I ordered a new MC and found I didn't need one. Well I have a spare now and don't need to bleed it down again.

This is a very interesting mod. That looks like it'd be a LOT easier to attach to the resivoir. It'd be great to get an updated pattern for that plate after you're done.

I'm sure someone makes a clevis joint that'll work without welding. Right?

On the ones I have made I just used a longer rod and a hiem joint with a button head allen bolt on the pedal end.
I may be in Cleveland this weekend. Maybe I can come by and check out your car?

Bob

Oh man I hope this works out. Just talking to Bob on the phone for 15 minutes keeps me going for a month! BTW the car he is working on with d914 has the same engine...that thing sounds like it's gonna quite a handful (in a good way).

That one is pretty long! I like Bob's idea.

Did you use a spare one or dress the end of a bolt, Bob?

I used a 5/16 grade 8 bolt and turned the head just like the Honda one.

Did you use a hole saw for the hole in the firewall?

That would make my day if you could stop by. I PM'd you my info.

You certainly could however I used a hole punch.

A hole punch? That would take FOREVER . I know, I know....not a paper hole punch.

So I think I owe the group some measurements, part numbers, etc.

First, if you're gonna do the Honda MC you have to COMMIT. The MC housing is longer at the front so you have to cut a hole so the whole housing (not just the pin) comes through the floor. Not a huge deal unless you might change to another type of MC at some point...hole might be a little big in that case and you'd have to plug it.

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It wasn't that hard to cut the hole since I already had a smaller one.

So the stock OEM Honda master is made by Nissin. You want the years 1992ish to 2000. Anything newer is obviously different because it has a weird triangular piece at the end of it. You DON'T want that kind. Sometimes marketed as "Adler", they are about $45-$55 shipped new, or $25-$30 used. There are a TON of aftermarket ones as well. The only aftermarket MC I've heard negative things about has been Omni.

The stock reservoir to MC hose is an 8mm hose (this is the actual one from Kent's, which is only 6 inches long because his is out of a Del Sol). You can probably use 914 fuel hose or brake hose if you have some.

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You can either get a used Honda MC reservoir or buy a generic one. I got mine for $18 on e-bay. If you go generic just make sure the outlet is at least 7mm but not too large for the 8mm hose to stretch onto.

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For the hydraulic line connection you need a very specific 10x1 fitting. One end is tapered, the other is not. Here's the one Kent and I bought:

Fitting

The longest clevis I've found is 48mm. Here it is:

Clevis

Still not long enough, Kent added a piece to it to extend it as described previously. He can tell you what he used, but it's probably an 8mm nut of some kind. Bob also mentioned changing the rod end to a longer one, which is a great idea as well.

Beyond that you need what you need for any hydraulic conversion. We bought 15 feet of Aeroquip -3an hose, a 10x1 Banjo fitting at the slave cylinder end, and this fitting on the other end:

Fitting

Kent, did I miss anything?

Excellent. Thanks for adding that, Chris. You didn't miss a thing. Wish I could say that. That was an experience, huh? It was worth it though. God I love that smooooooooooth hydraulic clutch. And unlike cables they give a little notice when failing.

The Heim joint shown will be replaced with a clevis fitting. Otherwise it is offset too much for my taste.



If that dog leg is eliminated, then how is that other system hooked up then to the CMC?
Could a person remove the dog leg part, and make one that is a straight piece instead of the offset?

Would the timing of it need to be the same position as the dog leg one?

I've got around 250 miles on Kugel now and thought I'd share some of my teething problems up to this point. Somewhere around test drive #5, I had settled down enough to realize that it was hot in the cabin. Not only that but my gas tank had become a heat sink as well. The first thing was to seal the gap where the "old heat tube" passed thru the bulkhead. This required a couple of crescent shaped pieces of foam.

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Test drive #6 revealed no noticeable improvement. I forgot to seal off the air box so I made a couple of foam plugs.

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Test drive #7 showed a big improvement but found the "full" gas tank was still hot to the touch after a run. I had one of Mark's cowl seals on my shopping list because mine was toast but I thought I would try something different instead. After all, should I expect a new seal to perform way outside the envelope for which it was developed. The OG seal had 5ea / 45mm for an area of 1590mm)openings (if any) opening into the front trunk. And I had added 4 38mm holes or 1134sq mm. So this was my solution. I took apiece of 1/2" walled pipe insulation and placed it over the existing old damaged seal. As you can see in the pic's it comes with a slit in it so it slides right over the old one. The first nite it was a tight fit and raised the hood very slightly. By the 3rd day the insulation had compressed into place and the hood now sits as it should. Noticed the compressed area on the insulation?

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This was the final fix and I'm happy with how cool the cabin is since these changes. But I still had a nagging overheating problem. I had been warned not to run thru the longs by a few members so I'm hoping it isn't the additional length of hose that is the problem. I choose a 14 mile round trip to begin testing. OAT range from 88F to 95F. 7F is a small difference. The next 3 test runs consisted of attaching a small lip to the bottom of the fender opening to act as a scoop; enlarging the opening in the fiberglass fairing 1/2" across the bottom; removing one access plug in the floor and running with the front hood partially open or cracked. None of these attempts helped. I was able to find the temps would always begin their ascent at 9 miles nom. With the IR I found I had a 5F drop across the radiator. Hold'er Newt. That ain't right. With fans on high, low or off didn't matter. Unless the cover for the radiator was removed. And then the fans cooled it quickly. So now I can assume the radiator is sized correctly, thermostat good, hose runs good, fans good, etc. How could this be. I assumed because others had success with the OEM oil cooler openings (along with 4 more punched out) that this should work for me as well. But I was comparing apples to oranges. My radiator, fans, and venting were different as well. I didn't think it would make any difference but I decided to cut out the area that had the punched holes before I called Bob to explain what a dumb ass I am. The overall cut out was only 3.25" x 18" or the same as the area cut out on the bumper and fairing. Here is a pic of the removed piece.

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Not much larger but after "now" Test drive #15 I had my first result. I completed the test run and temps were in the middle. Checked a few items and went back out. After 6 miles the temps began to rise but leveled off towards the high end of the scale. It was 82F that run. The coolest so far but still not much difference in ambient temps. Then I spotted it. What an idiot! All I can say is that I missed this one and have no excuses.

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I had not considered the gap between the fender/fairing and the body. The gap along the bottom is appx 1/2", you can see the pie shaped openings on the sides and the one along the top edge was 1.5"-2". After a quick duct taping we went on
Test drive #16. Holy , that was it. Duh! That incoming compressed air had been shooting thru the gaps. The gaps were probably low pressure areas and diverted most of that incoming air right out the fender. I have been running w/o fans for 2 days without any temps above the 1/2 way mark. Tonite I removed the tape and filled the gaps with foam. The gap was so large along the top that I stuffed an untrimmed piece of pipe insulation in there to seal it. I have a few cosmetic items and other things to do but other than that, I think this might be the final chapter. I hope some of this build thread will help others with there conversion somewhere.

I think this will be a nice functional addition to my cooling system. Chris told me (Bob told Chris and so it goes)about these 914-6 louvered floor pans. My floor pan was beat to shit so I welcomed this opportunity to have a nice flat surface and increase my venting with the addition of the louvers. The panel is $68 from Patrick Motorsports. Needs paint and the bottom side needs a trim in 2 spots and then welded. That's just cosmetic but I need to jack it up pretty high so I'm in no hurry.

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I dig the louvers. Nice touch & glad to hear you figured the cooling. Always seem to be some trial & error. Glad you were able to make it work in the longs. While it definitely would not have worked with my v8. I don't doubt I could cool my 2.5 suby conversion hearing yours is working. Mine doesn't get hot with the smallest of openings for inlets. Hope to see yours soon bud. Nice work

Hey Jamie, thanks a lot. And you will see me in a year. At RRC 2015. Just missed RRC by a week or two this year. We will both be driving our Suby's next year. Word on the street is that there will be 3 to 5 Suby powered 914's at RRC next year! Can you guess the others? Any updates on yours?

That is exactly what Scotty and I were discussing as one of the options for my trunk if we were to add a front oil cooler.

Nice work Kent! You already said it but yes, 100% Bob's idea. I haven't done mine yet because I'm routing all my air out the bottom so I need more louvers punched. Finally found a place around here who can do it about 90 miles away, just have to get there. Just gonna get another row of 4 X 4.

Check out Hammond Mfg. PN PVLL19012BK2
Louvered instrument rack panel - packed with louvers, about $40. If the size works this might be a less expensive alternative that a custom louvered panel.

Just be sure it's .050 / 18ga.
It cleaned up nicely.

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Bandjoey had mentioned Duplicolor's carpet paint so I tried some. I'll need another can to complete the job. I did the rear trunk and floor pieces with one can.
Side by Side difference

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Before the one on the right was sprayed.
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