Speaking of radiators and such...been working on the wiring. If you're doing your own radiator setup rather than going with Renegade, etc, the fan wiring is not as simple as it seems. If using the stock ECU you really should consider using the engine fuse/relay box that came with the donor car. Based on searches of previous setups you should not just wire the fans to the fuse box or to an unused 914 relay unless you like the smell of burning wires and plastic. Each of my 10" fans is 80 watts. There's a sequence in the ECU re: when the fans come on and how fast they spin based on the engine temp. The Subaru relays are the only way to ensure you don't burn the harness up. I'll post how I did it once I get through miles of unneeded wires.

You are correct. Fans should always be on a relay. I like to use Bosch or equivalent. I have a thermostatic fan relay trigger a pair of Bosch relays for my dual fans. The system is setup so the fans can run even when I turn off the key. They usually stop running within 2 minutes of stopping.

For your setup, I am concerned with forced air flow. Fans cannot push air through a radiator effectively. They must pull air. The 914 engine bay air flow through the engine bay is very weak due to the design. It was never meant as a forced air cooling device. The flaps at the rear pan created a low pressure area so the T4 fans could preform better. The engine tin divided the top and bottom of the engine air flow. The roof line creates turbulence, the bottom of the car creates turbulence. There is co consistent flow and I'm not sure which way the natural flow without engine tin travels.

With the radiator up front, forced air while driving travels threw the core without the aid of the fan. At slower speeds or hotter days the fans supplement the natural flow of air. In your radiator location, your fans will need to run all the time and once the temps exceed the fans flow cooling delta, the engine will overheat.

I think you have your work cut out for you. You may need to create a scoop on the underside of the car to force the underbelly air up through the engine bay. Vortex generators on the trailing roof line will help mitigate turbulence on top. I also think your fans will need to be on top of your radiator pulling and not below pushing air.

I was waiting for you to chime in Mike!

So the good news is that the fans are between the radiator and the lid so they will be pulling air through the radiator rather than pushing. I was planning to engineer some sort of intake system to force air from under the car or from the front through the heater tubes and up through the rad.

I'll play with it for a while and then most likely go to a front mount like everyone else. We'll see what happens!

If you have any ideas throw em out there.

Don’t want to be a drag but…
My first thought is burping the air out will be a PITA, 2nd thought is the heat from the engine will naturally want to rise thru the radiator.

Assuming he burps it with the engine lid open, most of the air will get out. Maybe a custom filler neck on the radiator so it is level with the ground.

Really the bigger issue is F-ing around with the engine, dodging the hot radiator, while the fan screams in your ear...

Burping shouldn't be too bad. I can point the rad nearly straight up or even leave the lid off the hinges to burp it. That way it will be the highest point of the system. I'll leave the water hoses long so it will be a little more flexible.

There are actually two fans Mike. So twice the fun. Also just realized that I will have the ability to grill things on my engine lid. YEAH! Who wants a burger?

We'll see if I can get some flow directed through the lid while the car is moving. If not it's probably not going to work but AT LEAST I TRIED IT! I won't drive it far so if it gets the slightest bit too hot I'll just shut it down.

Now back to the wonderful wiring harness...

Would you be able to mount the fans under the radiator? The heat would pull-THROUGH instead of push-TO the radiator.

I think Chris IS pulling from the bottom up and blowing out the grille on the engine lid.


With the total weight of a full radiator and all, you might need to install some gas struts to help open the engine lid and a latch to hold the lid in the open position to work in the engine bay ...

Yes, the fans are installed to pull through the radiator and out. They are reversible as well which is cool if I need to reuse them on a "normal" system.

Mark, you're right on the struts...been thinking about that as well. IF this works I will need stronger lid hinges and springs as well as a prop bar of some kind. Pretty sure Mike B thinks I will burn myself otherwise... I'm sure that's right.

Speaking of Mike...he must be a Star Wars fan...here's the tank he recommended for the recovery tank...I love it and will have my daughter paint it like the Death Star, which is what is looks like . BTW I did see a picture of it before I bought it so I was aware of what it looked like beforehand. There are dozens of shapes and sizes you can buy. I think the round shape is a great design. It's a VW/Audi item that is on Jettas, A6's, Beetles, etc.

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Yeah, I thought the 'Beetle Bottle' looked familiar

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Now, go to a wrecking yard and cut the wiring plug off a car to fit the bottle. You can rig and idiot light to it so you will know when the water is low.

Just mount it up high and your system should always have available water.

I was going to use the same bottle but settled on the Passat triangular one. My engine compartment is stuffed full of things. The round bottle took up too much real estate.

Well, the engine lid radiator idea is dead...just not enough room up top. Think I'll keep the Cherokee rad for another project...who knows...

Ordered the 00-05 Celica radiator (~$100, not bad). The SVX stock fan setup will fit on it. Now I have to convince myself to cut the pristine front trunk. I want to make a fiberglass splitter that will cover the holes for a cleaner look (like Ruby914s).

Good luck with that radiator and the shipping goons. Mine had a Big GD footprint on it. Your blazing away. I know what ya mean about getting back to that wiring.

EDIT: Chris, I have Greenlee hole punch's if you go that route up front.

I was hoping you would be the one that could make an engine lid radiator work. It's a good idea in theory but a PITA in practice. You could try Boxster dual front fender radiators. I might go this route some day. I miss having a front trunk.

Yeah Mike, I was hoping the same thing. Hate the idea of cutting my trunk. My brother and I messed with it for quite a while today. Nothing lined up well. The radiator was too far back to close the lid, then when we moved it forward the filler was in the way. It's also pretty close to the engine...as you predicted there is no way you could work on the car without some special bracket so you can remove the rad entirely while still connected to the engine.

Here are the miscellaneous cooling ramblings we were considering:

- a ram air scoop forcing air down through the fresh air vent between the wipers back through the heater ducts with 3" hose running right to the radiator (would have to remove the air box that is there)
- a scoop under the car forcing air up - although it would be very hard to direct it through the radiator , lots of air would go out the sides of the lid
- running some light weight ducting under the car (as straight as possible) from front to back, then right up to the radiator. Something similar to a house gutter down spout (but bigger or more of them). It would have to be light weight or you'd have to drill a bunch of mounting holes.... This would probably be effective but it would be pretty low on the car and could be ripped off fairly easily. Hate to lose it at say, 70 mph...

At that point we realized it still might not be enough air for the EG33. This could certainly work for a smaller normally aspirated Subie conversion(2.2, even 2.5) but this rad isn't quite as big as the stock SVX rad...Maybe next time!

Can you mount it flat in the rear trunk?

Cut out an opening in the floor, add a ducting scoop below to suck cool air up, then duct the exhaust flow through a nice mesh grille between the tail lights

You might still have room to stow the targa top too ???

The exhaust system is in the way back there...plus my rear trunk is prettier than the front one... .

BTW Mike if you want to mess around with the radiator I will ship it to you. "For the good of the community" ya know.... I can't return it anyway since I mounted the fans and made some ugly indentations in the fins. I don't have the confidence to do any major surgery on it but you can. What would be ideal is to use a roller or parts car to play around with the configuration.

check out what this guy did for cooling.
http://clubnarp.com/
wrx914 build.

It will give you some ideas.

Yeah, that's Mike (Ruby914's) thread

Here's the direct link Click Here

Yeah that carbon fiber front trunk air ducting is awesome. Might try to do one in fiberglass. Better learn fiberglassing then....make a mold, plug, glass it...

Yea, this is pretty awesome.

Mike, Chris, I think your on to something good. Thanks for the good words on my duct but that is so 2011. You can one up me and use the Boxster dual front fender radiators in the rear fenders. Inter through rear flares and exhaust through the engine bay

Well, maybe on the next one....if I hadn't found the 3.3 I would have gone with a 2.5 non-T and that would have worked with my setup (I think) because I could have built a cradle for the rad and it would not have needed so much air. The 3.3 is fairly large physically compared to the 2.5 or 3.0. No room for that. Plus I like having arm hair.

Hello there from RS25. I was googling EG33 stuff and found your build! Very interesting!

If you need any wiring help, I can give you a little help and advice. I have an EG33 swapped impreza, and it's been running on the stock SVX Ecu for nearly a year now. I am swapping over to a megasquirt though, in preparation for a supercharger.



I saw earlier you were worried about the coolant temp sensor? Just a little heads up, the EG33 uses 2 temp sensors, located right next to eachother. The 2 wire sensor is for the ECU, and the single wire sensor is for the gauge cluster. If you know what the stock porsche sensor's resistance curve looks like, I know I've got the resistance curve for the subaru sensor around here somewhere to compare it to. Alternatively you could just replace the subaru cluster sensor with the porsche sensor, though you may have to make an adapter, or drill/tap the hole for a different size.

Also, I'd recommend hooking up the Check Engine Light to something. The OBD1 ECU allows you to pull CEL codes by connecting 2 wires (no external code scanner required!). It does this by flashing the CEL at you (it's kind of like morse code, long long short short short would be code 23, etc.) This can be MAJORLY helpful in troubleshooting (My ECU coolant temp sensor got damaged somehow when I was installing my motor, and it wouldn't fire without it! I wouldn't have been able to diagnose this without the flashing CEL telling me!).

The EGR system can be removed without any big fanfare. Just leave the solenoids connected to nothing and the ECU will be happy. Block off the hole in the header if you're using the stock subaru headers, and block off the opening on the intake manifold. I've gotten a CEL once from this, and it was because I gassed it immediately after filling up the fuel tank. No big deal.

The radiator is always a pain. Comes with the territory. Good luck on that! I can tell you though, that with my Griffin (think it's a 26"x13"x3"thick) double-pass radiator, my fans have never kicked on under normal conditions. It just doesn't get hot enough. I let it idle for 2 hours once just to test this (during the summer) and nothing. Soon as I unplugged the coolant temp sensor they kicked right on (so they were connected properly). I don't know if you've got room for that, but it works well for me. Part number: GRI-2-58190-X

Also, you probably want to replace the water pump. I've had several of them leak on me (the seal for the water pump shaft goes bad). When you do, use a stock subaru thermostat. The aftermarket thermostats tend to be junk and cause problems.

Here are a few of our build threads that may be of use to you:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f145/t173252-bo...ie-dropper.html
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f145/t71120-ric...-230-na-hp.html

Best of luck to you on your build! I'll be following along!

(Also, whatever you do, make sure the IRIS system is functioning properly. Replace all the old and brittle vacuum lines under the manifold while you've got access. The IRIS system is responsible for ~30hp in the midrange, due to it's variable intake geometry)

PPS: Don't go to nasioc. They're pretty much the devil. I only go there for cheap parts and local guys. RS25 is much friendlier. Subaru-SVX is also a great forum with some dedicated fellows who will hate you for "Chopping up a perfectly good SVX"

Wow Cory thank you so much for the info and for bridging the Subie-Porsche 914 gap. I have found RS25 to be very helpful. In fact many of the things you mentioned I did because of that site. Bought a new iris valve, changed all of the vacuum hoses (which were as brittle as uncooked spaghetti), eliminated the ECU but left the solenoids plugged in etc. I'm tackling the wiring now, so thanks for the CEL insight. I think 95 was the last year for OBD1 which is good. I also did replace the water pump. I re-sealed the engine but did not do the head gasket (hope that doesn't come back to haunt me).

On the temp sensor I think I will hook up both gauges and see how they read...the Porsche sender is only $20 so I can add that if need be.

I think I speak for all Subie swap people when I say thanks for introducing yourself. Your comments are welcome! Can't wait to peruse your build (Might have seen it but not the photobucket link).

Well thanks to some help from Jeff and others, I figured out the wiring harness. The little SOB runs. Only ran it for a minute or so because it's not plumbed for a radiator yet but it RUNS! Wow that is very motivating. It's very smooth and you can just feel the power when you rev it. I'll miss the clacketyclacketyclack of the valves but probably will get over it when I hammer the throttle.

Some pics of my custom intake...didn't want to use the stock one and started researching....seems the SVX guys debate about the effectiveness of a cold air intake. The issue is that the stock airbox pulls air from the fender, which is cooler. A cone air filter generally goes in the engine bay to prevent hydrolocking...so the air is hotter. No increase in hp and some say it's a decrease. I noticed a lot of LS1 guys have their intakes in the trunk. It was very hard to find a dual-inlet "snorkel" intake that the SVX has. The one I used was a 300GTVR4. The tubes are 2" vs 2.75" with the SVX, so silicone reducers were used. I could cut the intake where it bends to gain more trunk room but I kind of like how it looks now.

Pics:

The first cut is the deepest....OUCH!

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If you want to do a cone filter conversion for the SVX, find a MAF adapter for a "Z32" Nissan, which is 90's 300ZX, Infiniti J30, I30 through 1997. The MAF itself IS NOT THE SAME, but the casing is exactly the same. I bought this one:

MAF Adapter

It has a seal and is made of plastic so it works well with the plastic MAF.

More pics:

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The one issue I am having is that my alternator belt is squeaking like crazy. It only has 3 ribs which is likely the problem but it also might not be quite tight enough. The power steering pump bracket has a tensioner on it, but once you remove that you cannot tension this belt. I know Bob made a tensioner for his. Anyone else have a recommendation for a belt that is approximately 25 inches long with 4 or 5 ribs? What have others used for a belt in this situation?

That's awesome man. Great work.

Damn-satisfying to finally be at a point where you can see the end.

Don't have that motor so can't help, but are you sure it's the belt? Drip some water onto the belt's grooves when it's running and if the squeaking stops it's the rubber, if not it's something else. Might juust need tightening, might need to be replaced. Belts can also get glazed and when the alternator's pulling a lot of power for a low battery it can slip the belt, then once it's not charging as much it'll improve. If it's not the belt making the noise it could be an idler or alternator bearing, especially if the belt's over-tight.

If it's not stock you can get any belt you want at any parts store, just take in yours and measure. You have a three-rib belt? On four or five rib pulleys? Sounds odd, but it's all still stock, isn't it? If so just get the right replacement.

Yeah I'm sure it's the belt DB but thanks for the ideas....I can smell it...it must be a little too loose or too thin for the application so its slipping. It's not stock, normally there is a 4 rib belt (I think) driving both the alternator and the power steering pump. I removed the pump which also housed the tensioner. So the stock belt is way too big now. Unfortunately this means I have to figure out EXACTLY what size belt to buy or make a tensioner somehow. Initially I used a 25inch belt, so I might try a 4 rib 24.5 inch and see if that works.

Thanks! Getting it started is the most concerning part. If it doesn't start it could be a million things. You start thinking about the things you might have messed up along the way. I thought maybe the timing belt wasn't right because it wasn't idling, but realized I just needed to take up the slack in the throttle body and its fine now. Except for the SQUEEAAAAAAAAAKing.

Belts that small are a problem to find in anything but a three rib. You need to make a tensioner. What I made was just a right and left hand thread set of hiem joints and a peace of tubing welded a nut on each end and then a jam nut worked great and looked good.
I've been looking for it and as soon as I find it I'll send it your way.
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Hows it sound??

Thanks Bob that would be awesome! I think I might have found a 4 rib but that still might not fix the problem. I don't want it too tight or it will mess up the bearing.

It sounds REALLY good now that I took that dang belt off! REAALLLLLY good. Very 911ish but with less whoooshing because there isn't a cooling fan. At idle it's almost silent. I'll try to get a video together....

A three rib belt is fine. The only load on it is the alternater. unless your using the ac compressor now..

Nope just running the alternator. The AC runs on a different belt luckily and can be tensioned. I won't get to that til next year.

Wow! Way to go Chris. Your making great time. I'm hoping Mine is ready to start in 3-4 month's. Once that first cut in the trunk happens the others will be easy. I finally made headway with my exhaust though it will be awhile before I post on that. I've been dicking around with the wiring and discovered that blk doesn't always mean ground and some of the wires I cut need to be spliced back in. I bought the factory manual and it is awesome, So awesome that I was able to determine that I had screwed up quite a few wires. Thanks for the motivation.

Have any of you actually looked into this as far as to get the boxter rads and see if they fit ? This was something I had also thought about doing, with Ruby's shroud as my fail safe plan. I tried a 911 fender mounted oil cooler and it is a bit big for the front wheel wells ( in front of the tires at least. ) I haven't tried it in the rear wells yet.

I was at Parts Heaven a couple weeks ago looking at a Boxster that was half stripped. I think it could be done with a Sheridan fender or a similar removable fender. The Boxster rad sits at a 45° angle with the leading edge closest to the center of the car. There is a built in shroud with it. I think it would be possible to use the fog light grills as intakes. The headlight bucket would need some re-working for air flow. With my headlight setup, this area is all wasted space. With a factory setup, maybe a little more work. The Boxster has way more room in the fender well than a 914. So you would have to utilize the space under the headlight bucket for sure, possibly even cut out the bottom of the bucket and have the radiator shroud as the new bottom. I'm just not sure if the flip down headlamp system would fit back in the hole.

My next water cooled project will go this way for sure. Maybe with a water cooled 3.6L flat 6...

The front mounted cooler is another thought I had. 2 of those, one in each rear wheel well, behind the wheel. I think airflow in would be o.k., but it would need some sort of exit. Fan setup could be tricky too due to the long thin shape of the front cooler

The Cherokee rad would be great if you could get some space between the front spoiler/valance and the body. It's 36x12, 2 pass. Could work with the Sheridan kit or the IMSA front spoiler thing...

noticed the tank sock is sucked flat. did you replace it?

I did Kevin, thanks.

SWEET!! I go hunting for a couple of weeks and you get it running..



jcl

Yeah man! Your clarification of the wiring was very helpful...the first time you turn that key it's pretty scary. For anyone who is going to do this soon be advised that the ground wire for the sensors (o2 sensor, etc) is black with white stripe, as is the ignition wire (which is really dumb). Be VERY SURE you connect the right one. Luckily I only twisted the key for a second...the wire got hot, I swapped them, all good.

Hey one question Jeff...so the black with yellow stripe wire that comes from the ECU...the "cheat sheets" identified this as the starter crank wire. When I plugged that into the starter nothing happened when I cranked it. Could only get the starter to spin when I ran a wire directly from the yellow starter wire at the 14 pin 914 harness (that used to connect to the relay board) to the starter. Works great like that, but should I also connect the starter crank wire from the ECU to the starter or leave it as is? Let me know if that makes sense.

Thats the singal wire to the ECU to turn off the fans,ac and other devices that are
drawing power so the starter has full batery voltage.

Ah thank you sir! Makes sense.

yep as stated above. that wire tells the ecu the engine is starting.


jcl

Hey Chris,
I never could get a very good view of the engine cradle you used in this setup. Any chance you could post more of them?

This is WAY off, but one day I'd like to do the SVX swap as well. The limitation is that I'd have to keep the stock 901 transaxle, which, in theory would really simplify the swap in some ways, but also make it more complex in others (need a VSS sensor, engine adapter, gauges, high torque starter, etc). Is there any way that a cradle that bolted to the stock /4 locations would work without running all the way back to the transmission mounts, since this engine is a bit heavier than the 2.2?

Do I read this right: its essentially the same case as the 2.2, so you'd just use a Kennedy 2.2 transaxle adapter?

George, that is Ian's cradle of Coldwater conversions. He is a member vendor and has a beautiful cradle. They're about $600 and worth every penny, I'm sure. You asked "Is there any way that a cradle that bolted to the stock /4 locations would work without running all the way back to the transmission mounts, since this engine is a bit heavier than the 2.2?" The Suby engine mounts are located at the rear of the engine as compared to the front on a type 4. So much so that it is almost the datum point once the engine and trans are bolted together. That being said, the mount you want would need to be a distorted "C" shape. Don't know how that would hold up w/o some bracing from the body to mount as it would become a "lever" if left in that configuration.