Yea,..ahh No turbo stuff for me,..I cant do all the fab work that's needed,.But hell ya that would be fun,..I would have to learn how to drive a car with that much power,..Iam thinking z32,injectors,and what ever type of ECU needed to run all that,..and maybe cams,..as I say if its worth the trouble...I gotta get started first,..!!

When compared with a 4 banger, 6's are like Poontang. Any damned 6 you install will be a thrill whether it be a Porsche 2.0, a 3.6 Subaru or anything in between. Just remember that the worst piece you ever had was wonderful and it will be the same with a 6.

and I remember my 1st,...So Iam with U on that,..!!!

Another question Chris - with the intake flipped, do you get more induction sound in the cabin? That may not be a bad thing unless it's way too loud. Just a little extra whine and/or wooshing sound on acceleration may be better for getting your blood going!

Not really. Pretty much the same. It's very quiet at idle and then when you lean on it the exhaust is way louder than the intake. Neither is that loud compared to an air cooled engine. I can hear the fuel injectors clicking with my head in the engine bay. That's how quiet it is.

Great! Now I just have to go over your thread to find all the parts I need to flip this sucka before I install mine...

What is the best route for a aftermarket ECU harness set-up for a EG33,..??? or best vendor options,.??

Congrats Chris!!! That video sounds great.

Can you mesure the top of the flipped manifold to the bottom of the deck lid. Just a rough idea. Thanks

Thanks! Sure I'll get that for you tomorrow. I owe Kent some pics too. Kent that coolant hose is not here yet! Monday at the latest.

So your asking for an opinion?

How much work do you want to do.

Nothing at all, SDS - it will be a custom harness, they will work with you, done lots of EG33 you just need to do a final tune

Outback is the same

You love doing it all - MegaSquirt

Start a new thread for your build. We need another EG33 build thread for entertainment.

The stock ecu is a very capable unit, look at Chris' build he is moving down the road with force. Need a little more the chips are a viable option.

SDS is for me, whats the cost on that system.

Oh i would do the chips,injection,and the Z32,

You can do that with the subiechips setup. Stock ECU, upgrade chip is about $300, then just buy 300zx injectors and MAF. I think you need the wiring connectors too. The guy on the subaru-svx forum will help you. Same guy who does the group buys is the subiechips guy.

The SDS is money but a great system. You can really tune the engine to exactly how you want it. Someday soon I'll go aftermarket. Tired of guessing if it's running right or not.

Alright a few updates. I have the coolant drained again since my new 1.25 lines are coming Monday. Kent you must be pacing the floor. I'll make sure to get the package turned around quickly.

Here is a pic of where my lines come through the front trunk. I have them following the indentations in the floor underneath.

Click to view attachment

Someone was asking about fuel pump relocation in another thread...well...there is the fuel pump behind that black plate. Walbro pump fits in the stock location. BTW it is running much quieter now.

Here is the engine with the intake flipped.

Click to view attachment

The stock plastic intake piece is actually flipped as well because it would not fit the other way (battery). You can see it is slightly tipped up and higher on the right side because it is hitting the firewall on that side. The intake is very thick so I think I can shave a little off of it and get it to fit. I had to shorten it quite a bit. Luckily I have another one. If my Optima ever dies on me I will use the battery tray as a support for the stock air cleaner and put a small battery on the other side.

Here's an idea of how high the intake is in relation to the engine lid.

Click to view attachment

The intake itself clears easily, with about 3.5 to 4 inches of room. Here I used the MAF because its is the same height but easier to show measurement to the lid hinge.

Click to view attachment

Could put the rain tray back in I guess. The plastic snorkel piece is close to the lid but that is mainly because it is upside down so the IAC valve hose is on top. It would be behind the rain tray anyway.

Wow! That's a clean install, Chris. Where did you hide all of the wiring? Take your time on the hose. I'm waiting on a reverse lite switch that I destroyed yesterday. In the interim, I may connect it back to the old water lines to see if I destroyed the engine or repaired it.

Looking great Chris. The intake snorkel is ABS so you could put it and weld it to give you clearance.

Also why are you updating the coolant lines?

Good to know thanks Steve. I'm just moving to 1.25" hoses from 3/4 and 7/8. Kent and I have been talking about it for a while and now that he just did some work to his engine it's a good time. Not having any cooling issues myself but I haven't done any long trips and also always wanted to do a square radiator laying flat like Ross's (rnellums). Then put a false bottom in and have a water tight smaller usable trunk area and keep the heat down up there.

Make sure you test the intake abS idea, there should be a number of the plastic type on it somewhere. I would just take a piece of ABS and see if you can weld it over one of the tubes your not using. Worse case you can always redo it in fiberglass though.

Oh okay, interesting, I am planning on going strawmann and doing a nice rad ductwork on my project. With a board, figured waterproof bags under the floor, nice stuff above, we will see, it will be a small trunk for sure. Also thought about moving my fuel tank, lower and infront of the firewall. Building a fake floor above the swaybar where to old fuel tank was and putting it in there. Could open it up if I wanted to do some tubing and tie in, and make a larger from trunk.

All have their merits, all have their downsides. If I run E85 I will need to keep a semi large fuel tank to allow me a decent amount of distance between gas stations. Starting to wonder if the E85 thing should be done. Plan for it for now, if I boost my engine then I have no worries about what I have done. Guessing I need to draw up a few designs and play with the space. I still got time. Still welding in the rear trunk area.

The engine installation looks great! I really like the flipped intake.

Chris
Thanks that's perfect. I have had a brain storm on the flipped intake. Based on that pic I'm going forward with it. I will pm you pics when I'm done with the machining.

Jeff

Ha! Can't wait to see what it is . Guessing it's a custom intake. Let me know if you need more measurements. I'm gonna be working on it the next few days now that it's not so hot.

Here's the precision chassis one...

Click to view attachment

I have extra parts if something goes wrong. Throttle body, TPS, etc.

I am shockedPrecision Chassis did not add beads to the ends. At minimum a set of welded beads would have worked. I come out of the turbo TDI world, so beads go on everything after having issues with hoses blowing off. Yes even on the intake low pressure side beads = insurance

Would not be to hard to duplicate their work. Getting a TIG in-between the two inlets would be a pain in the.... That is why they welded the two pieces separate and then put them together. Almost think this piece would be easier in fiberglass / Carbon wrap. Use the AL pipes for the hose connection points. Bond it up with fiberglass, epoxy resin, do the final wrap in carbon.

Welding it, you could build a small chamber to hold the unit, fill it with argon, and run the tungsten out of your cup super deep. That would avoid having to split the tube to do the welds.

Or go old school and use gas welding, everyone forgets about that one.

I guess if you want to play with fire, you could also cast it.

For that matter you could cast it out of plastic.

Or just take ABS pipes and make your own version with ABS cement, that is a Lowes plumbing isle item.

All would work, I really like the ABS idea, as it is the simplest for the home mechanic. You can also worse case do the assembly with with a minor tool investments. A hole saw would be nice with a drill press not need just be nice. Of course a Mill or Tubing notcher would do the trick in no time, so many ways to do this.

Found something cool today on the EG33 engine, especially for all you speed hut gauge guys. I've been wanting to change my air bleed system slightly to shorten the distance and get it to the highest point which happens to be right at the water outlet on top. That's where I had my temp sensor mounted with an aluminum extender piece. I just figured out that on the crossover bar on the engine itself there is both a water temp sensor (which you can NOT remove) and a water temp GAUGE sender. The gauge sender seems to have the same thread setup as the speed hut temp sender!

Click to view attachment

I trimmed the end of the speed hut sender just to be sure it fit in there OK (the other one is VERY short) and put that thing in! Now I can use the aluminum piece for my air outlet. I'll install a small bleeder valve on the radiator to bleed it too just to speed up the process. I haven't tested this yet with the car running but don't see why it won't work. Although the water temp sensor is required, the one right above it to the gauge should not be.

More updates to come, I'm installing the hoses this weekend. Mostly swearing and talking to myself now. It's going pretty well though.

Got the hoses in. It runs VERY cool now. They don't look too much different than the old ones so there's not much to see. I'll have a new video update this weekend once it stops raining.

More lessons learned:

1. When you make changes to correct small problems, do them ONE at a time. I installed the Speed Sensor AND re-did my vacuum hoses under the manifold that control the iris valve. When I did that I followed a set of instructions that incorrectly showed the 1-way valve for the vacuum canister that connects to the iris valve installed backwards. It's amazing how something the size of a pen cap could jack things up so much.

Click to view attachment

All the popping, weak acceleration, etc is gone. I forgot how FAST the thing was initially. Forget those 4 cylinder N/A comments. Can't go backwards from this!

2. Don't forget what you've learned. After years with L-Jet, I can't believe I didn't clamp every hose. What an improvement! (the unclamped ones do not have any vacuum and are not connected to the intake air flow so no worries)

Click to view attachment

3. Bob's system for cooling lines setup is great. Make sure your return line is at the highest point and keep the hose setup simple. I have one continuous hose going to the radiator, one coming back. No extra clamped elbows, nothing. I had ZERO air pockets. The pressurized expansion tank has a screw on cap with a 5/8 lower line that goes to the water pump and a smaller upper line that comes off of the upper engine coolant tube (high point of system).

Pics:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Definitely a lot fatter hoses but they fit fine. Seeing temps only to 180 and when the fans come on they drop immediately. Ignore the arrows in the last pic. Those are for Kent.


4. You may recall that I removed some of the hoses on my engine since I flipped the intake. One thing I realized was that I inadvertently deleted most of the "warm up" loop that the coolant circulates within before the car warms up. I decided to take the thermostat out for that reason. It actually warms up just as quickly as before. Just made a small aluminum circle of the same diameter and inserted it into the rubber seal. Not a drop.

Video tomorrow if the deluge stops!

Looking good.

My big question is did the speed hut sensor have any ill effects from the shorting procedure. Since your have listed temperatures, I presume not. Just want verification before I do the same thing.

Now get out and enjoy the car, maybe bring it to Okteenerfest?

Looks great Chris. And yes, the EZ's also have the iris valve. It has the smallest spring that I have ever seen inside. Like a human hair. Do not open to inspect. I repeat, do not open to inspect. The plastic bodies are very fragile as well and I recommend using a razor to open the hose when removing the old hose. They are unobtanium from Subaru. Now go do what Stephen said.

No it works fine and it's much less..."roller-coaster-y" I guess is the word. The needle moves much more slowly like the stock gauge. Needs to be connected TO the engine if possible like the stock sensor to keep it from swinging erratically which is pretty alarming. I think where I had it before may have been prime air pocket space, so I put the return line there. The thing bled itself in 2 starts. 3 gallons!!!

The instructions say you can trim that sensor no problem but since your engine is apart you can eyeball it and see if you need to. I couldn't quite tell. You can take the pipe out of the spare engine I f you can't get an eyeball on it easily. Be CAREFUL with the sensor. Don't use a socket on it. And be careful with the threads for the crossover pipe in the engine, at least on the good engine. They are bitchy.

Ha! Yeah Kent we may be talking about two different things but that sounds crazy! Every model has something you can't find new any more like the EG33 Cam sensor #1. Used ones aren't as expensive as I had hoped (was wanting some $$$ for the guys who gave me extras for Octeenerfest!, maybe I'll ebay a couple) but a NEW ONE is between $250 and $400.

In the pic above with the spare change the black piece is just a 1 way check valve, so when it was supposed to be building pressure it was RELEASING it. That would pretty much ruin your timing, let a bunch of unmetered air in, never get the iris system moving, etc. The iris valve, or iris system in the SVX is a big dome like thing that rotates underneath the intake at different RPMs to redirect air flow inside the manifold (see below). I think the EZ30R might have it too.

Click to view attachment

I don't THINK yours has this monstrosity but NO DOUBT you have something called the iris valve in your car that probably has something to do with air metering. They do that to confuse us .

Your correct. It has that small check valve, also. Same rules; leave it alone.

Really nice work there AGAIN. I was wondering about the size increase of the hoses. Jeebus buddy, you've got boa constrictors under yer car! I'm all for it, gonna copy you like Xerox. I also may be interested in the ECU chip buy pool if that's still going on. Maybe one of those sensors too...

Chris -


Thank you for trudging the road before I had to. I am utterly impressed with everything you've done. I wish I was at a different stage in life so I could keep up better/contribute more. But I live vicariously through ye.

I was considering going up to 1.5 inch hose for the inlet, but seeing how much of a PITA it is with the 1.25 hose, I guess that's as far as I'll go. Again, my car will see a lot more extended periods with high RPM, but your data has been pretty promising to me thus far.

For others who are reading, the primary issue with the EG33 is that the water pump is too good. At high RPMs, at least in the SVX, the pump is pushing enough water that there isn't enough volume coming back in behind the impeller to keep up. This causes cavitation, thus steam and a hot spot in the motor. Not good. Several SVX sites have threads dealing with this issue which essentially recommend resizing the inlet hose to 1.5+ inches and also resizing the thermostat housing and relocating the thermostat to the outlet side. I think Chris' 1.25 hose seems to work well because of the added length of the hose coming into the inlet (compared to the very short hose from the radiator on the SVX, providing enough volume for those high RPM moments and effectively eliminating those cavitation events experienced by others.

Mototrooper - you can test the sensors with an ohm meter. should read 2600. As long as yours do they are fine. Just put one needle on each prong. All three (2 crank, one cam) work the exact same way. They are just simple magnetic sensors. You can substitute one for the other and they will fit/work. The angle of the tops just make clipping to the wiring harness a little different. You CAN use other subaru sensors of the same year but they only measure 1900 ohms. People do it all the time but I don't like the idea that they are that far off. I'd definitely be in for a chip group buy if he came down enough on the price.

George, the way you did your intake flip REALLY helped me. I might not have chanced it without your posts. Would have waited until "next time" ) When you're 100% ready to go PM me and I can give you a few more thoughts/ideas that you can use or not use. On the hoses, the 1.25 are really good enough in my opinion. I don't see an extra .25 inch doing much for you given the added hose length as you said. The 1.25 are a little bit of a pain to stretch onto the engine inlet/outlet but once you get them on there they will NOT come off accidentally I can tell you that. I soaked the ends in hot water then put a little dish soap on the metal piece. You could remove the thermostat/extra hoses on the engine like I did. I have a sheet of aluminum I can cut you a blank out of if you want. Just a large washer to put the rubber seal in so the water pump doesn't leak. The diameter is 2.2" so there is not a washer that size available that's paper thin.

And don't worry about stepping away for a while. I paused my build several times. My car sat on jack stands with no engine in it for several months this year. Last year I didn't do much at all to it and felt like I just did this constantly when I worked on it . Just take your time.

I detailed the hose swap in Kent's thread so he could do his. It's very easy.

Hose Install

I just did a quick night time run. Stand by it's uploading. I THINK we were out there at 9:14 so here's to Ron (SLITS) and all our other pals who have moved on to greener pastures .

Here it is...not too exciting but the engine sounds good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7X0bSQkgY

Chris,

I ordered my SpeedHut gauges last night! Thanks for the above information.

Ray

Not too exciting, huh? What are you talking about? I could hear you grinning in that video. That thrill doesn't go away either! Congrats again, Chris. That "School of Stick to IT-ness" is Hell but once you go thru it you gain an invaluable life experience.

Thus the reason I switched to an electric water pump. The correct volume not dependent on engine RPMs.

Also no T-stat needed with the setup.

And I think I can bleed the coolant with out running the engine. At least that is my theory, yet to be proven.

Sounds great! Loved the giggles.

Just watched the video Chris And yes that is exactly what a 3.3 in full song should sound like. Great job

Thanks everyone. It's been a long road and I would never have gotten this far without the help. Another example of how great the site is. BTW flmont (Frank) bought an EG33 so he's officially in the fold now. He'll be starting a build thread soon.

I realized recently that I like tinkering with the dang thing as much as driving it, but at least it's good to go now and I can start on the cosmetics and smaller stuff. I definitely will go to Megasquirt at some point but not quite yet.

Next steps:

- build a console to enclose the shifter and hide the cables, etc.
- swap stock WRX starter with one that does not poke through the trunk. I THINK 23300AA560 will do it. Will let you know.
- pick up some rear trunk sheet metal from someone's parts car to close in the holes from the original manifold configuration and the stock starter. I know a guy who is addicted to welding. Maybe he'll when his fingers heal in trade for some stuff . Or maybe grind some seam welds for him (yes Kent, I WILL wear eye protection !)
- Move the ECU into the passenger compartment within the new center console and keep tidying the wiring.
- possibly change the way my radiator vents. maybe not though. Why mess with it? At least do some sort of seal that directs the air only to the exit point. Precision Chassis' EG33 car with the 6 speed Boxster trans has their radiator leaning back and venting out the floor. Its totally sealed to ensure the air flow is maximized.

Stephen, can you point me to some pictures of how you did it then? I know the stock pump would need to be gutted, but not sure about how to go about that.

Yeah there are two ways to do it. 1. "Helper pump" where you keep the other pump and the electric pump just closes the gap when needed and then 2. just having an electric pump only. I'd assume you just take the impeller off with the 2nd way and just let whatever's left spin freely or grind the vanes down.

PRETTY sure you could bleed the system without running the engine with an electric pump Steve. Definitely 90% of the way if you had a simple hose layout. The only thing you don't get is heat, which does help, especially with the last few stubborn air bubbles.

Ray, let me know if you have any questions on the gauges. Given what you've done on your car you are probably more advance than me on the wiring side. It's very easy. You might be able to do what I just did with the coolant temp sender as well. Not sure what the configuration is on the 2.5. The SVX has a sender for the fuel gauge and a sensor for the ECU. Got lucky and the gauge sender was the same thread size as the Speedhut one.

Chris, would you think that leaving the stock water pump in place would help to keep the water in the engine long enough to complete the heat soak cycle? Just using the helper pump up front to push fluid back from the radiator so the stock pump isn't overworked? My setup isn't running yet so I wouldn't know...
Your build is kickin' it and I'd love to see it sometime, but you know this whole distance thing is a bitch...

Yeah any time you're in the area let me know. Steve would be better to answer the electric pump question. I just shared all the knowledge I have . I'm just running the stock one. It works fine for the street. I think Mike Bellis uses an electric pump maybe? Andrew might? Or is planning to? Someone will chime in.

Mike does use an electric pump with the return from the radiator being helped but I think he gutted his stock pump. I hadn't read the post before about your pump being TOO efficient causing cavitation - that's one area where the electric would help out by making sure there's enough water for the pump to draw on.
Also, you mentioned Precision Machine about their project with an EG33 hooked up to an Audi trans? Is that the place in Pennsylvania? I didn't see that listed as one of their projects but that might be a great alternative...

No they are in Arizona. Precision Chassis Works. Most of their info is on Facebook

Facebook Photos

Boxster 5 speed trans apparently (Audi):

Click to view attachment

The headers are a work of art.

Here's a short vid of the car:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe_vWc87e1c


Bob has been there. The place is like a candy store for people like us.

That looks pretty industrial, damn sexy... I may have to go that way if it's practical and not too pricey! Thanks for the link!

Go for the 6 speed if you go Porsche/Audi. Otherwise you might as well do a Subaru trans. Don't need an adapter that way. I thought you were going automatic? The screaming redline shifts are getting to you aren't they?

From what I glean, the guy from Precision Chassis Works cut his teeth doing a 911 eg33 swap in fine fettle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4cVMmJKyLg

here's the build thread, really pushed me over the edge on doing an eg33 swap along with Chris H.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...-3-3-my-sc.html

Yup, looks like the 5 speed trans with 100mm flanges. Just about the perfect combo for that engine IMHO.

Electric water pump I am using and Andrew is using is the only pump we have. It actually reduces the flow rate to optimize the engine ability to transfer the heat to the coolant. Yes sometimes things can move to fast or be to big for the combination of systems you have working out.

SVXs have a wonderful ability to stagnate the pump unless you run a huge hoes into the water pump. We are talking 2" large. This comes into play with high RPM.

Now for the catch, I doubt most people will see the issue in normal street driving. In auto-x where I might hold a high RPMs for an extended period of time, it could be very bad.

Would I make the same decision again, yes I would, I think it is the perfect solution for my car, and combo. YMMV