Hey George,

Kent is correct, my mount is from coldwater conversions.

It's a very good strong mount. I modified mine a bit because of a clearance issue with the headers. Need to do a bit of work on it in the next few days so I will post some pics of it installed. Just got it shimmed up to the perfect angle last week.

cradle link

You don't HAVE to use a cradle mount if you use a 901 trans, but I would go with one myself because the 3.3L engine is very front heavy and weights quite a bit more than the 4 cylinder engine @ ~350#. With a cradle mount the engine has some additional bracing front to back aside from just being attached to the trans, so your trans ears are under far less stress (reduces the "lever action" that Kent describes).

Other options: You could modify the smallcar mount that is used in Vanagon conversions and mount it to the stock engine bar like Amenson did.

Amenson mount link - mount is on page 1

The thing is that the smallcar mount is $359 for the 3.3 and then you have to modify it. The coldwater mount is $500..much stronger....bolts right in.

You could also do what Kent, Bob (BIGKAT_83) and others have done and that's fab a mount yourself. After seeing your skills on the resto of your car you could definitely handle it.

Give the Subie trans idea a while and you will probably change your mind.

BTW there are 3-4 SVX's up here for sale CHEEEAAAP. Craigslist.

Same here. $400 on up. The 400 one has a bad trans which is normal in these cars but perfect for the swap.

Thanks for the reply guys. That makes a lot of sense, especially the "lever" action of the engine. I really like Ian's cradle, but it's my understanding he isn't doing any more, at least for the time being.

It's one of those tough things, figuring this all out without ever having seen an SVX up close.

Again, I'll preface this with the fact that any kind of conversion is still years away for me, so humor me. But within the Chumpcar rules, these engines are the perfect way to add some power and reliability. The 914 is valued at $250 under the new Chumpcar rules, which extend into 2016. The goal is to keep the car's total value under $500, which means you can swap out another engine, sell the original and if it's under 500, then the car does not receive any kind of penalty. Unfortunately that means that the transmission swap is probably out. In general, this is all theoretical though - more important things to spend money on in life at the moment


Chris, have you been keeping a running tally of what you've spent so far? Anyone care to take a stab at a rough estimate of what a bare-bones SVX swap would cost, retaining the original transmission? Here's what I've roughly compiled.

Used engine, ecu and harness - $400
Radiator and fan - $150
Hoses - $100
Cradle - up to $600
TransAdapter and clutch - $800
Exhaust - $150
Fuel pump - $100
Fuel lines - $50
HiPo Stater - $150
Gauges - $150

Neighborhood of $2700 with that. My general rule is to double everything though, so probably closer to $5000?

buy a svx cheap,, partially wrecked.. Bob bought one for $400.. scrapped it for $212..

You can weld you can make a engine mounts

tranny?? not in a SVX unless there was a conversion.

Your numbers are directionally right George. I don't have a running tally, but the "nickel and dime" stuff is what gets you on a conversion. If you have the patience to part out an SVX you can get the engine free or even make a few bucks. My donor was $600. I definitely ended up on the + side but have spent it all and more on the conversion. I'm not a fabricator so most of my $ was spent on the mounts, axles and such. You can get the costs down significantly by fabricating the mount yourself.

One area that needs to be addressed almost 100% of the time is re-sealing the engine. They leak in the same places as their German counterparts and after 15-20 years they are usually caked with oil. The total reseal kit is about $260, but the main area of leakage is the rocker/valve covers. Might get by with just doing those, the coolant stuff that requires o rings, and the cam covers. The oil pan does not have a “seal” per se; you use RTV to reseal it. The timing belt is non-interference, so you don't HAVE to do that immediately but you could. The exhaust might be a bit more than your estimate since the stock headers hang down really low. A set of aftermarket headers is ~$300ish. You could modify the stock ones I suppose. It's a race car so you aren't going for "pretty".

If the adapter kit for a 901 and a new clutch is $800 I'd (again) encourage you to consider a 5MT Subie. Bolts right up with no adapter, better gearing, stronger, etc. You can also use a stock Subie starter which in many cases comes with the trans. Bob might be able to help you source one cheaply if you give him some lead time.

As I said before there are several SVX's in my area CHEAP. If I had someplace to store them I would buy them all.

Greg, thanks for the confidence. I'm sure I could fabricate a mount, it's more the mock-up and tube bending I'm confused about. I know that the Suby engines need to be in a pretty specific position, and I guess I just need to do some more reading to see how I would go about the whole process.

Chris, glad we think along the same lines. I too will not install and unknown engine or transmission in ANY car without going through the seals thoroughly. No sense making more work for one's self in just a few miles when it can all be done easily, and for relatively low cost before it goes into the car. "Preventative maintenance" as my dad always taught me. Speaking of the oil pan, do you not have any clearance issues? I know a few of the other conversions with different Subies people had to make pretty drastic changes to the oil pan to get adequate clearance.

Regarding the transmission, it's more the complication of fabricating all of the parts for a cable shifter, adapting the CVs/axles, etc that is a pain for me. Also, that's an added value component that would have to somehow fit under the $500 threshold, and most likely all of the other things would tack on value too. Again, lots of things to think about over the next year or so.

Your car is coming along great though, glad to see it! You're definitely doing it right, and I envy you, as well as Greg, who has a conversion of his own well on it's way.

No need to clearance the pan with the EG33. I think the EZ30 is fine as well. Maybe the 4 cylinder pans are taller/deeper? If I ever get the close up trans pics posted to the cable shift thread as promised you'll be able to see the pan. Hopefully tomorrow! I'll throw a measuring tape against it.

If we can get the cable shifter thing solved between the 5-10 of us who need them the Subie trans will be more attractive. You can get a starter much cheaper, you use the inner Subie CV's which are cheap and rarely fail, and the 914 axles can be re-splined. But if you want to stick with a 901 that's fine too. It's your ride and many conversions use it.

This is a terrible angle, but here's a shot of the oil pan. The clearance measurement is actually about 5.5 inches, which is the same as stock clearance at the cooling flaps (thanks Kent!). Most importantly the pan does not hang too low in proportion to the mount, which you can see surrounding it.

Click to view attachment

Hey forgot,, Craigslist transmissions with a bad center diff VERY cheap $100.... and since we don't use the center diff.... I have an old clutch that I didn't use....
Cable shifter junk yard $17
cables a little tougher about $140

Budget is getting better.... AN SVX is doable..... We have the technology!!

Good point Greg. I think Dean (now JRusts car that lucky %^%&*() paid something ridiculous like $65 for his.

I was also thinking for George's chumpcar he might want to use a FWD Subie trans. Might not be geared quite as well but it's already 2WD so he wouldn't have to convert it. Those are probably $100 at the junkyard as well. No diff locker or rear plate to buy though...

Hey Greg I've been meaning to bug you for some pics of your Honda shifter setup. Even if I can't use mine this round I'm still going to keep it for something else. I think you had to flip the orientation around on it...(Bob mentioned)

Any chance you could post a few whenever you have time?

[


Look up turbo the epic..d914... start from the back..it shows the preliminary set up.. I'm going to reinforce the console..

Click to view attachment

here is the whole thing.. reversed is how it worked in the car I do believe.. Cable went forward in the car.


Click to view attachment

Thanks Greg. Man that is a beast you're building. The louvered hood looks cool. Almost stole the louvers idea when I was going to push my airflow through the trunk floor. A hole would cause a lot of debris and water to splash up, but louvers would keep most of it out. I DID steal your Celica radiator idea though ! Not gonna lie!

So for the shifter you really just drilled a hole farther down towards the base in the left-right cable peg...OK I get it...looks like a really smooth install.

Here's the link to Greg's project so the search function isn't overloaded:

Subie Turbo The Epic

Awesome progress man, haha not too sure if i like the modifications to the cradle but hey, if it works who cares...

Also I like the avatar

Sweet I didn't even see this! So I went back and forth on the clearance issue, the first revolution I tried to position the engine low enough to avoid cutting the rear trunk all together. haha that ended up with about 1.5" of oil pan clearance when I got the car off jack stands . on my second time around I focused more on oil pan clearance and tried to get the pan on the same plane as the floor of the cabin. On the 4's the drain plug extends about 3/4" - 1" below the floor, which is acceptable to me. Plus this way if someone was really worried they could pick up a shortened pan from small car and actually have the pan recessed into the engine bay a little.

Yeah I'm not done with that mount...it’s a little ugly now but bear with me...the headers (or any headers) interfered with the cross braces. Probably unique to the EG33. My plan is to run a bar straight across underneath the trans just behind where the original braces connected at the rear which will connect the two sides and make the mount more rigid since it lost some rigidity when I removed the bracing. Then I will bring two pipes from that bar to the bar that the engine is bolted to. That will brace the engine and keep the torque flex to a minimum (which I think was the reason for the original bracing). Should be just as strong or stronger than the original. Then I grind off the nubs and paint it. Already have the materials, just need to get er done! BTW that .95 tubing is heavy!

And plan B is I mess it up and send it to you for repair .

Re: pan clearance, it's as good as you can get with the eg33. I did have to cut the trunk for the starter but there are other starters that can be had that you would not have to clearance. Would much rather clearance the starter than bang the oil pan on the ground at speed or cut the oil pan and re-weld it (Lord knows we wouldn't PAY to have someone do it right!? ). Kent and DB did a great job with their starter covers, I'll just copy theirs.

edit: Then someday I'll add mounts for wheels like Kent did so I can easily roll the drive train around when I take it out. Genius.

Wheeew! This thing is dusty!

Time to get back at it. Really learned a lot over the long winter from watching others so it might have been a good thing that the extreme weather and my schedule brought this build to a grinding halt.

Next steps:

- figure out the accelerator cable
- build an alternator belt tensioner like Ross's (aka copy it, it's what I do)
- pull the rear calipers(or all of 'em) and send to Eric for rebuild
- new shocks/struts/springs probably (Eric again)
- strengthen my modded engine mount bar with some bracing
- plumb the radiator
- get the hydroclutch installed
- fix drivers side wheel spacing (it's too close to the inner fender well)

Hope to drive it to Garold's if he decides to tolerate us again this year...

BTW for the Subie guys with actual accelerator cables (not drive-by-wire)...where did you get your cables? I think I remember you can order one from Terry Cable with a custom end so it works with the Subaru engine, or you can make one by cutting the end off of a stock 914 cable and putting a 3/8 cable stop on it. Sound right? Is the stock length OK? I'd rather order one with the Subie end attached professionally so let me know if you have a resource.

For acc cable I went an additional 18 inches longer custom. Stock length was causing excessive wear and breakage.

Thanks. The stock one looked too short so glad I asked. Happen to remember where you got it? If not I'll call Terry Cable and report back.

Glad your back, Chris. Left me sitting in this foxhole by myself. Misery loves company. Did it start snowing when you re-entered the garage? Re: the stock acc cable (and I'm talking out my ass because I haven't driven mine yet) seems like it will work. I changed it's pathway i.e. I removed it from the hole in the shelf and attached it to the firewall. The end fits my TB perfectly but then again mine might be different being a 3.0. As far as copying Ross' tensioner; "Emulation is the sincerest form of flattery", I doubt he will care. Order Eric's rebuild kit and do them yourself. It's easy and you will enjoy the rebuild. Glad your back.

I sure did leave ya hanging out there didn't I Kent? But you did fine without me that's for sure! It was cold enough to snow a couple of days ago but today is great.

So the end of the stock cable fit eh.... ? Interesting. Thought the ends were different. I Also thought you had drive-by-wire so that shows what I know.

Yeah my rear caliper rubber is really shot. Might not want to chance doing it myself but we'll see.

Hey does anyone know if you can stack wheel spacers? my drivers side rear wheel has a 15mm and I'll need to add another 5-7MMish...but could add more if I want.

They look like this...(not mine, I borrowed this from an e-bay ad):

Click to view attachment

Might be a terrible idea..that's why I'm asking.

Yep, the barrel end fits my TB cam perfectly. DBW came in 2004, IIRC. Did you get a chance to see how much the brake MC hole needs to be enlarged for the 19mm MC? Stephan came up with 1/8" but I'd like to hear from you a Doug too. There is enough "meat" to go to 1 7/8" but I'd like to go to 1 3/4" if possible.

I did on my conversion with no problems, but I was running 100mm wheel studs.

I think the key is having enough stud meat for the lug to bite on.

It was Terry Cable. Awesome people to do business with. I believe I paid around $45 or so.

Oh you mean the piece that fell down into my old engine when I was taking it out and I've been meaning to fish out from under the engine tin? You mean I might need that?

I haven't pulled the MC yet to measure but I'll try to do that this weekend. Still wondering whether I might switch back to a 17mm. I went with a cheap 19mm a few years back. I'll still measure for you either way.

Thanks Matt and Andrew for the responses as well! Matt, good point on the stud length. I might have to pull the ^(&#ing axle and remove the studs and put new ones in since I neglected to check the inner fender clearance before cutting the studs. So that's dumb move #.... emmmm... what number am I on Kent? It's way up there....

Quit bragging. I'm at least 10 fuch ups ahead of you. I'll try to get a pic of the throttle cable tonite.

Still struggling with whether to run my coolant lines through the longs or under the car but I'm about 75% sure I'll use galvanized electrical conduit under the car in the recesses.

Question: Why do some of the conversions have different sized coolant lines? The line to the radiator is smaller than the return line? Is that necessary if I'm going under the car? I'll do it if it will help. I could do a 3/4 i/d to the rad and a 1" i/d return line or a 1" both ways as planned. Any thoughts on that?

I asked Bob the same question. I was told that the discharge side is always larger. Maybe because of the expansion. I think we shall find what does and does not work soon, as many of us that are doing this conversion. I hope the long route works. I like the clean look.

So yours are 3/4 and 7/8 Kent? That's the inner diameter?

I did mine sort like how the Pontiac Fiero is setup. In almost all cooling systems that I researched the lines are diffrerent sizes. Mine are 1" and 1 1/4" and I'm running a GM 3.8L V6 and so far has worked very well.

Click to view attachment

I know your build very well Paul! I almost posted your photo above as the poster child for great looking underbelly piping. Thank you for the feedback.

Are you going to have to worry about galvanic corrosion of your engine/block with running galvanized lines?

Yes, mine are 3/4 & 7/8, as is Bob's. That's why I'm sure those sizes will work. I don't know if those sizes will handle all the bends I've introduced but it works on Bob's which is a more direct route. As I said earlier, I'll stick with those sizes but may have to reroute them like Bob's if they won't circulate properly in this configuration. Paul's post substantiates that as his are only one size larger and he is heating a GM 6. I think the Suby's require a bit less. Ross raises a valid question re: material choice. The engine, your radiator and the connectors you use are all on the noble end of the galvanic chart. You could go with aluminum T-6061 tube which is very hard but not cost effective in this instance.

Maybe...

Here's what it says:

- Galvanized steel construction resists flattening, kinking and splitting
- Flo-Coat coating combines zinc, a conversion coat and a clear organic top-coat for protection against corrosion and abrasion

Would the fact that it has a protective coating help?

Is there an aluminum option that's easy to bend I wonder ?

Maybe I re-look at through-the-longs...rather not do the radiator hose underneath...

If so I'd try to do the oil-line-routing style.

Similar to these setups I found in the archives:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Yikes, it looks like I'm gonna have to actually read up on this!

Maybe you could get larger 1.25" steel tube and build a protective shroud that you could run the tubing through? I plan to go through the longs if I route up front myself.

Yeah I was just looking at that too. It's actually 70 degrees so I might just go out there and poke around later. Need to de-clutter it and get to work!

BTW ordered my TerryCable throttle cable. 18" longer than stock. The throttle body on this thing is much farther away than the stock engine so I went with Andrew's advice. They're just going to throw in a handful of cable stops for me to try. Really nice people.

Chris,
Where did you find this photo? It's from Kent's thread. Is it where you got your CVs from?
I am looking for just the front inboard CVs and boots for an 02 WRX. Having a hard time finding them with out the complete axle setup.
Thinking about the pick a part but not sure if most pre 02 will fit and I think I would stay cleaner if I get them on line.

Hey Kent, I see you peeping on Chris's thread. We need updates from you too.

Hi Mike,

I found that picture on the net. Didn't buy that setup I was just showing Kent the retaining ring so he didn't bend the crap out of it like I did someone I know did. I bought entire front axles used off of NASIOC and harvested the inner CVs. I heard not to go with new aftermarket or remanufactured. They aren't as good. Used OEM are fine and don't fail very often. Looks like the prices have gone up a bit...I paid ~ $50 for my set. You want to look for "female" CV's, the OEM are usually painted green. I don't know how far before 2002 you can go before the spline count changes, but if you post WTB on NASIOC you should get some hits and be able to find 2002 axles...I see some in the classifieds over there. A pick n pull would be fine too. Again, just make sure to get OEM. Don't pay too much. There's a set for $250 on NASIOC..that's WAAAYYY too much!

Mike, try ebay. I found one there. Is yours 29 tooth? I have an extra your welcome to but it is the older style. I've been too busy with work / to work on the car.

Who's 914 is the blue car in the pictures above? That is an insanely clean install, I would like to check it out.

So the general consensus is that the CVs on rock auto are garbage?

Well, all I know is a lot of the guys on NASIOC say so. I think Bob (BIGKAT_83) told me the OEM used ones were the best bet as well. And Chris (my928S4) ordered a set of EMPIs and the spline count was wrong so they didn't fit. That SHOULD NOT happen since you order each set specific to the year of the trans and I'm sure he knew what year his trans was.

Stephen, the blue car is known as "Papa Smurf". It's owned by member naro914. You'll enjoy learning the details. It's a nasty little beast with quite a racing history.

HANG ON!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VmxplmLGKs

OK so back to the coolant lines thing. If I run them through the longs and then keep them low and run them like oil cooler lines...what about heat in the interior? Should we be worried about that? Seems like 180 degrees or so would make it pretty warm where the hoses come out of the longs...mine would be right by my feet without a lot of room to put insulation. Could probably encase it in a tube of some kind....guess I better look at it closer.

My flapper boxes were stuck JUST SLIGHTLY open for two summers and that was pretty irritating.

Hey Chris, I'm having withdrawals. Got any updates?

Hey Kent,

Wish I had more visual updates but I'm mostly collecting parts right now. Got all my hose and stuff. Right now I'm waiting for Jags That Run to call me back so they can send the last few bits for my cooling system setup. Spent way too much time over-thinking my coolant filler neck because the SVX high-point is at a weird angle just a few inches from the firewall.

Click to view attachment

Finally came up with something I think will work...

Click to view attachment

This is a Yamaha snowmobile/large motorcycle filler. Very durable (seems like an aluminum alloy of some kind...) and the filler neck extends quite a bit above the coolant hose "hole" which is needed since the engine line is larger and we're connecting it there. The sender on there can be removed and capped. The cap is loose BTW... The 7/8 hose fits great, although I think the original hose was 1" nope it measures 7/8". The lower hose exits the bottom and should easily make the turn without an elbow and run under the car.

I also bought this Honda 1000rr filler which has the same size hose outlets. Might try it as well but I like the Yamaha so far.

Click to view attachment

Next I'll steal phoenix-hobbies' idea and weld nuts to the underside of the floor pan to mount the coolant lines so I don't have to drill holes in the floor. The lines barely protrude below the grooves in the floor pan.

But first I need to install the clutch master...that little 90 degree elbow should be on my porch by now.

Cool! Great find. If you don't use that Honda neck I'll buy it from you. Are those jam nuts that you will be welding to the pan? I can't imagine a regular nut working well. You'd only catch 3 to 4 threads.

I haven't picked the nuts yet...(that sounded weird ) but I'll let you know .

I'm glad you asked about the Honda filler because I was gonna offer it to you in the last post but didn't want you to think I didn't like your current setup (which I do like). It's just that it's copper so at some point you'll probably want to change it. This will work great whenever you decide to swap it out. The 7/8 return line goes in the upper hole which is your high point, then you can run another 7/8 hose from the lower outlet down to a tee where those larger hoses intersect, done deal. It has an attachment loop so you don't have to worry about it slumping over. I got it for $6.95 SHIPPED so I won't sell it to you but I'll be happy to give it to you when I'm done. I only bought it because the hose sizes looked bigger than they are in the e-bay pic. I think they are actually 7/8" now that I put a ruler to them. The angle of the lower inlet even kinda follows the contour of the firewall if you have the room (and I don't).

BTW the Yamaha filler is from a mid-90's VMAX snowmobile for anyone interested. Like $20 on e-bay. There are many models, 500, 600, etc.

LMK, I'll paypal ya whenever. Re: welding nuts to the pan. You know what I'm getting at, right? The screw will stop as soon as it hits the pan. Why not drill your holes, insert a bolt and weld it in place giving you studs beneath?? Or did I miss something completely?

I just don't want to cut a bunch of small holes in the floor. Our weather isn't as good around here so I don't want ANY water in the cabin. If you weld the nut to the pan underneath you can screw the bolts in and not cut any holes. Just have to weld the side not through the middle and use short bolts. I'll look for a deeper than normal nut. As long as I use enough straps it'll hold fine.

You're not Pay Pal'ing me pal. I'll just send it to you when I'm done. If I need six dollars someday I'll know who to call.