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ConeDodger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6thmeRVz2So
Mike Bellis
Why is the CHECK ENGINE light on? WTF.gif
ConeDodger
Check Engine? We have to figure that out...

Here is Mark with his helmet on... Wait, that isn't a helmet is it? blink.gif
rick 918-S
Nice! MDB2.gif
DNHunt
I wonder if the check engine light is on because the coolant sensor (CHT) is out of range. The firmware may be set up to turn it on if the temp is above 210.

Dave
ConeDodger
QUOTE(DNHunt @ Nov 20 2011, 07:52 AM) *

I wonder if the check engine light is on because the coolant sensor (CHT) is out of range. The firmware may be set up to turn it on if the temp is above 210.

Dave


That is a possibility. I noticed that although the A:F ratio was just slightly on the rich side of stoichiometric the temperatures were low. Oil temperature was low normal but CHT was a bit low. EGT was more 'reactive'. It only went up when I was hammering on it. Which was pretty much all the time. biggrin.gif
Jake Raby
Looks like fun... The CEL can also illuninate if you have a sensor reading thats erratic, like the AIT sensor, CHT or MAP.
The idle sounds a little high, unless you were on the accelerator while staging... All that heavy decel and engine braking forces the rings to seat.. Looks pretty quick :-)
Imagine that same engine combo, but with a tad more CR in my 356..
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 20 2011, 09:41 AM) *

Looks like fun... The CEL can also illuninate if you have a sensor reading thats erratic, like the AIT sensor, CHT or MAP.
The idle sounds a little high, unless you were on the accelerator while staging... All that heavy decel and engine braking forces the rings to seat.. Looks pretty quick :-)
Imagine that same engine combo, but with a tad more CR in my 356..


We left the idle high on purpose for now. Mark will be dialing that down soon. I would guess the culprit to be MAP then. This thing is prettty potent without the added CR. I was at 38.411 for my fastest time. FTD was either a Stalker or a Super 7 at around 35.XX. Those are 1200# vehicles with 1/2 the HP or more... Pretty hard to beat that kind of weight to HP ratio and race tires. I was like a proud papa with McMark. He started the day in the 45 second range and dialed it down to 39.XX in steady .5 to 1 second improvements. He also knew enough not to beat me in my own car. That would be a borrowed car foul!!! mad.gif

Once again, this engine will require a learning curve. I was going so fast at the end of the fast sections that I was busier than a two-peckered owl in mating season! I would either have to slow down or polish my skills up to keep going that fast... This will be a terrific track day engine for sure! I did not think that it was possible for my car to push as polished as the set up is. But I was going so fast into turns that she would push like a pig! Toward the end of the day, I had figured out how to set myself for the corner and throttle steer around the turns. Mark was driving much smoother than I was but he was also experiencing the push. I think he even looped it once but I was the course marshal so I had to flag people on to the course and couldn't pay him too much attention. Not quite sure what to do about the push. The weight of the engine hasn't changed appreciably so the corner balance can't be too far off. It was colder (and wetter in the morning) than a witches tittie so that is a bit of it. It started to warm up in my second set of six runs but we lost the sun again in the afternoon. Mark got the better part of the warm day for his runs but he was still on the steep part of the learning curve then. He dialed it down to 1 second behind me by the end of the day with a cold track. This tells me that he will eventually beat me with practice. So of course this means he will need to find a car to autocross mad.gif I can't have him beating me in my own car! sad.gif
McMark
Got one of my morning runs on YouTube now...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt6Eeu9_w90


Oh, and I never looped it. I never hit a cone. tongue.gif But that probably means I wasn't pushing it hard enough. So yeah, it's time to get my car finished up and get some AX action. I had a blast. Best time: 39.386. I really didn't think I had any more time to gain before I headed into the third session, but turned out that I pulled a second off my previous best time.

It was a great shakedown run for Rob's car. Now we know a few little things that popped up that can be sorted out and it's got enough time on it for another oil change and valve adjustment. Plus the necessary nut-n-bolt check to make sure everything is staying tight.

Okay, enough chit-chat. I'm gonna go hack Rob's car up. sawzall-smiley.gif

happy11.gif
Mike Bellis
No check engine light on that run. biggrin.gif
McMark
Yeah, I wasn't punching the throttle like Rob was. shades.gif
ConeDodger
QUOTE(McMark @ Nov 20 2011, 02:28 PM) *

Got one of my morning runs on YouTube now...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt6Eeu9_w90


Oh, and I never looped it. I never hit a cone. tongue.gif But that probably means I wasn't pushing it hard enough. So yeah, it's time to get my car finished up and get some AX action. I had a blast. Best time: 39.386. I really didn't think I had any more time to gain before I headed into the third session, but turned out that I pulled a second off my previous best time.

It was a great shakedown run for Rob's car. Now we know a few little things that popped up that can be sorted out and it's got enough time on it for another oil change and valve adjustment. Plus the necessary nut-n-bolt check to make sure everything is staying tight.

Okay, enough chit-chat. I'm gonna go hack Rob's car up. sawzall-smiley.gif

happy11.gif


Ya'll notice the happy11.gif and sawzall-smiley.gif smileys? I couldn't stand to be there for this part... sad.gif When you start with a car that has only 70XXX miles and was pretty original and well preserved, it's a little hard to watch it cut up for flares... Good thing I trust McMark right? biggrin.gif
Jake Raby
It didn't sound like you ever really hit WOT.. Did you?
McMark
I might not have.
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 20 2011, 05:14 PM) *

It didn't sound like you ever really hit WOT.. Did you?


Not enough room Jake... But with all that torque you can see me jumping around sideways through that last section of sweeper... I think Mark had the secret. He wasn't as tempted to use it all and was able to use all of the finesse built into that suspension. I normally beat people who beat me yesterday so like often happens with your engines, I slowed down. Last event, I hardly touched the brakes. Pretty much only to transfer weight. This time I'm locking them up and pushing through corners like a plow... NEED MORE TIRE! blink.gif

Note: With Jake's engines, you often slow down before you go faster due to the fact that all of that HP and torque takes a while to get used to... huh.gif
JStroud
QUOTE(kg6dxn @ Nov 20 2011, 02:31 PM) *

No check engine light on that run. biggrin.gif



Maybe Mark had his seatbelt fastened and Rob didn't av-943.gif

Sounds like you guys had a great day, new motor seems to be everything you wanted. Next year will be like having a whole new car!

Glad all went well.
Jeff
Randal

Wow, sounds like you guys had a great day. Wait till you get some race tires under that puppy. OK now is the time for Mark to start on Phase II, getting some weight off...he knows where to start!

What you'll find is that it takes about a year to begin to manage the loud pedal. Actually all the torque is pretty mesmerizing; you'll be going down a straight and just blown away by how well the car moves. You end up thinking about THAT and boom, here comes a corner and back to reality.

Anyway was thinking about the Infineon event when I started the early morning Thanksgiving Day work orders issued by the wifey. Man, so much work, but was done in time to watch the 49'er on Sunday afternoon.

Start planning on coming up to Medford for the Spring Enduro. I'm going for sure and will be saving a good pair of Canti's for the event. You can wear out a set of tires as they practice Friday and Saturday, then run Sunday, i.e. tons of seat time.

ConeDodger
Randal, this car will always be a compromise. My vision for it doesn't include making it more race car... I want to street drive it, take it to the occasional concours and win, and do track days and autocross with it. I want my wife to get in and take a ride. Your car is immaculate but Yopu would never climb in for a ride... sad.gif
I hope to build a purpose built 'race' car with a partner. Maybe Mark...

I agree completely though, that last sweeper that extends the full length of the lot had me hard on the hammer and trying to hold it together in that 'stupid' last section of the course at the finish... I have to get used to not using all of that power... biggrin.gif
Randal
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 21 2011, 08:06 AM) *

Randal, this car will always be a compromise. My vision for it doesn't include making it more race car... I want to street drive it, take it to the occasional concours and win, and do track days and autocross with it. I want my wife to get in and take a ride. Your car is immaculate but Yopu would never climb in for a ride... sad.gif
I hope to build a purpose built 'race' car with a partner. Maybe Mark...

I agree completely though, that last sweeper that extends the full length of the lot had me hard on the hammer and trying to hold it together in that 'stupid' last section of the course at the finish... I have to get used to not using all of that power... biggrin.gif



I agree with you Rob.

Having a nice car and keeping it that way is a great way to go. Getting to drive on the street is a joy, which you can't do with a race car.

And when you want to AutoX or track the car just throw on a set of 205 Hoosiers and you'll be blow away how well it handles. In fact I think the Hoosiers got up to operating temperature faster than anything else I've used. And when you get adhesive grip it's something.
Eric_Shea
Looks like fun.

Congratulations guys.
Jake Raby
Does the engine feel 40hp stronger than the old one??
Andyrew
Wow, that course was CLOSE to those pit cars.
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Nov 21 2011, 11:21 AM) *

Wow, that course was CLOSE to those pit cars.


We were at Infinion close to some school cars at the West end of the Paddock...
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 21 2011, 11:00 AM) *

Does the engine feel 40hp stronger than the old one??


Much stronger. This one breaks the tires loose... sliding around corners with R-rated rubber...
EdwardBlume
Drat you guys for having so much fun.... hissyfit.gif

Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.

What would a motor like that do to a fully caged racer? I guess Randal could tell us.
Randal
QUOTE(RobW @ Nov 22 2011, 05:23 AM) *

Drat you guys for having so much fun.... hissyfit.gif

Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.

What would a motor like that do to a fully caged racer? I guess Randal could tell us.



biggrin.gif

The other guy to ask is Bill Charron who will be 60lbs lighter than 222 next year. His motor is big on torque as well.
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 06:38 AM) *

QUOTE(RobW @ Nov 22 2011, 05:23 AM) *

Drat you guys for having so much fun.... hissyfit.gif

Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.

What would a motor like that do to a fully caged racer? I guess Randal could tell us.



biggrin.gif

The other guy to ask is Bill Charron who will be 60lbs lighter than 222 next year. His motor is big on torque as well.


Or you could tell us.... slap.gif
Randal
QUOTE(RobW @ Nov 22 2011, 07:18 AM) *

Or you could tell us.... slap.gif

OK OK...

On a scale of 1 to 10, a stripped down 914 with a 4 cylinder torque motor is anyone's Easy 9. It's becomes a 10 when the driver can manage to put together a great run and capture a podium spot for the day.

My car, now being about 90%+ sorted, is very neutral. It doesn't misbehave at all. On the other hand the driver can easily lose time on a course by over cooking corners, performing brain fade things like hitting the loud pedal on 180's before the car is fully rotated and so on and so on..... In fact the real challenge is driving 10 tenths and doing it mistake free. This latter challenge is very difficult to do.

Also I'm still exploring the limits of the car and will start this all over again next year when I go with a different tire setup. Running on some new sticky tires will be a whole new experience, abet expensive.

What you also find is that the faster you go the more time you have to put in to bring the last thing, or system that failed, or that isn't working correctly, up to par.

But when all systems are go and the tires get hot, say like at the Medford WCR, it becomes an attack machine. You can simply attack most corners. Hard to believe but true and just a whole bunch of fun.

Of course there will always be some corners that you have to sneak up on, i.e., like 10 at Infineon or the big (first corner) sweeper at Medford. biggrin.gif
Jake Raby
QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 08:20 AM) *

OK OK...

On a scale of 1 to 10, a stripped down 914 with a 4 cylinder torque motor is anyone's Easy 9. It's becomes a 10 when the driver can manage to put together a great run and capture a podium spot for the day.

My car, now being about 90%+ sorted, is very neutral. It doesn't misbehave at all. On the other hand the driver can easily lose time on a course by over cooking corners, performing brain fade things like hitting the loud pedal on 180's before the car is fully rotated and so on and so on..... In fact the real challenge is driving 10 tenths and doing it mistake free. This latter challenge is very difficult to do.

Also I'm still exploring the limits of the car and will start this all over again next year when I go with a different tire setup. Running on some new sticky tires will be a whole new experience, abet expensive.

What you also find is that the faster you go the more time you have to put in to bring the last thing, or system that failed, or that isn't working correctly, up to par.

But when all systems are go and the tires get hot, say like at the Medford WCR, it becomes an attack machine. You can simply attack most corners. Hard to believe but true and just a whole bunch of fun.

Of course there will always be some corners that you have to sneak up on, i.e., like 10 at Infineon or the big (first corner) sweeper at Medford. biggrin.gif


Things happen fast in autocrossing. With this engine, things happened so fast it overcame 30 years of autocrossing experience! I was pretty busy at the 'slow down' section at the end of the course.

I kept thinking "I'd love to have video from outside the car" as I was driving the back straight. I could feel the car sliding and digging for traction.

I had no idea there were four of these engines running around. It winds up very quickly and scoots right along. With the flares I should have a little better tire control. The rear wheels will be 16X8.5 Fuchs and the front 16X7 Fuchs.
Jake Raby
QUOTE
I had no idea there were four of these engines running around.

Yep, thats it.. About the time I was ready to make it a kit, I decided to kill the kit program.

I might use the combo for some very special turn key applications when they pop up but for now ALL we are creating are 2270 engines.. I have nothing else on the books clear through December of 2012!
Randal
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.





Why don't you bring one of those 4 out to California and compete against 222.
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 06:03 PM) *

QUOTE
I had no idea there were four of these engines running around.

Yep, thats it.. About the time I was ready to make it a kit, I decided to kill the kit program.

I might use the combo for some very special turn key applications when they pop up but for now ALL we are creating are 2270 engines.. I have nothing else on the books clear through December of 2012!


Curse you for building such a cool engine.

EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 08:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.





Why don't you bring one of those 4 out to California and compete against 222.


You're right. Conedodger is technically a foreigner now...
Rand
.
ConeDodger
QUOTE(RobW @ Nov 22 2011, 08:58 PM) *

QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 08:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.





Why don't you bring one of those 4 out to California and compete against 222.


You're right. Conedodger is technically a foreigner now...


Technically? I am pretty sure I am not going to even bother filing California State Income Tax Forms next year... bs.gif
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 08:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.





Why don't you bring one of those 4 out to California and compete against 222.


You should have been there Randal. 222 would have definitely given the Stalker and the Bugeye a run for their money! driving.gif
Jake Raby
QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 09:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.





Why don't you bring one of those 4 out to California and compete against 222.

Its not that important to me... I'd rather hang out over at the farm...
We are done with competition.. Turned down two race engine builds this week alone..
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 22 2011, 11:05 PM) *

QUOTE(RobW @ Nov 22 2011, 08:58 PM) *

QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 08:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.





Why don't you bring one of those 4 out to California and compete against 222.


You're right. Conedodger is technically a foreigner now...


Technically? I am pretty sure I am not going to even bother filing California State Income Tax Forms next year... bs.gif

Wow. Is CA really that bad? Torch the place a few weeks after leaving. Classy. av-943.gif
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 23 2011, 04:19 AM) *

QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 22 2011, 09:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.





Why don't you bring one of those 4 out to California and compete against 222.

Its not that important to me... I'd rather hang out over at the farm...
We are done with competition.. Turned down two race engine builds this week alone..



Too bad.... its a tough economy for sure.... but we are starting to see people spending $$ because they are realizing that life is too short not to enjoy it...
Randal
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 22 2011, 11:08 PM) *

You should have been there Randal. 222 would have definitely given the Stalker and the Bugeye a run for their money! driving.gif


Now that would have been a bunch more fun than what I ended up doing, i.e., the Wifey's rose color glasses front yard re-do.
mepstein
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 22 2011, 05:37 PM) *

QUOTE
Cool motor. Seems to wind up fast like no other /4 I've seen.


Because the guy that designed it understands that throttle response, torque and a broad operating range are all more important than peak horsepower.

That combo took about 8 years to get this the stage it is in Rob's 914... Only 4 of them exist and one of them is mine, going into my 356 Outlaw.


What kind of torque/hp does that combo put out?
Randal
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 22 2011, 05:29 PM) *

Things happen fast in autocrossing. With this engine, things happened so fast it overcame 30 years of autocrossing experience! I was pretty busy at the 'slow down' section at the end of the course.

I kept thinking "I'd love to have video from outside the car" as I was driving the back straight. I could feel the car sliding and digging for traction.

I had no idea there were four of these engines running around. It winds up very quickly and scoots right along. With the flares I should have a little better tire control. The rear wheels will be 16X8.5 Fuchs and the front 16X7 Fuchs.

When I first drove my car at that Sacramento Regoin autox (Stockton) I was also so far behind the car, but smiling the whole way. Takes a bit of seat time to start to utilize all you have.

You'll find that 15's will wind up faster Rob. I know, I know you don't need it now, but soon.
Jake Raby
QUOTE
Too bad.... its a tough economy for sure.... but we are starting to see people spending $$ because they are realizing that life is too short not to enjoy it...


Some higher power has been watching over us... Or perhaps that coupled to a decade worth of 18 hour work days, never giving up and doing things no one else thought about finally paid off for us.. 2010 was our best year on record, by August of 2011 we had already surpassed the numbers from last year and have gotten even more swamped than we imagined in this last part of the year.

With a turn key engine backlog for TIV engines that stretches out to December of 2012 we are as busy as we want to be. I had e chosen to keep this company smaller and focused and do exactly what I want to do, rather than being like all the other guys that have to kill themselves to pay the overhead and stay on top.

Why waste a weekend going to California to "compete" when we don't have to do so to be busier than we even want to be??
I'd much rather spend my weekend here without another human within 5 miles.
IPB Image
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I'd much rather put meat in the freezer and see "racks" on Deer through my rifle scope as to see "fake racks" on the synthetic wonder chicks in Cali.
IPB Image

At one time I would have traveled cross country to prove a point, I did it many times. Today in the aircooled world I am happy as hell if something sells, but don't care if it doesn't. Thanks for supporting us over the years :-)
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 23 2011, 07:49 AM) *

When I first drove my car at that Sacramento Regoin autox (Stockton) I was also so far behind the car, but smiling the whole way. Takes a bit of seat time to start to utilize all you have.

You'll find that 15's will wind up faster Rob. I know, I know you don't need it now, but soon.


I am on 15X7's now Randal...
Randal
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 23 2011, 08:54 PM) *

I am on 15X7's now Randal...


Canti's work great, but you'll have to flare the car a bit. Hey, street cars look good with flares!
EdwardBlume
Gee Jake. That looks like a good life out there. Its not work when you love what you do. beer.gif
Jake Raby
QUOTE(RobW @ Nov 24 2011, 08:54 AM) *

Gee Jake. That looks like a good life out there. Its not work when you love what you do. beer.gif

The day that I leave the house and "head to work" is the day when the whole place goes up for sale.. We have a lot to be thankful for today, thats for sure.
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Randal @ Nov 24 2011, 06:33 AM) *

Canti's work great, but you'll have to flare the car a bit. Hey, street cars look good with flares!


It's getting flares this winter (if I have to kill myself paying for the install!) I will need advice on tires though. I currently think only in terms of street tires. With a narrow body, I can't use Hoosiers, because they're wider than most other brands. I love Victoracers. I can't believe the grip, though this engine clearly was able to overwhelm that grip. Slicks might be a possibility... shades.gif
EdwardBlume
I have an extra set of canti sslicks on 15 x 7 s you can use.
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