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Full Version: BUILD-OFF CHALLENGE: Tygaboy's '75 LS3
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bkrantz
Hmm, does design 1 add more heat to the trans than necessary?
tygaboy
I mentioned there's another structural part under the factory trans mount cross brace. And here it is, just before I hacked it out, along with all that other corner sheet metal.
tygaboy
So to help add structure back into this area and more securely support the new transmission cross bar, I opened the chassis forward to the edge of the spreader plate the cross bar welds to. Then I made a simple 90 degree piece of 12ga and plug welded it to the inner part of the chassis. The 90 degree area will get seam welded to the chassis all along that edge, which will also fuse it to the end of that cross bar spreader plate.

Once that's done, I'll fab another plate and weld it over the current opening in the chassis.
tygaboy
Note that I primered the inside of the chassis, then weld-through primered the back side of the 90 degree plate. Before I close this up with the final plate, I'll also seam weld along the rear edge of this inner plate.
I opted to get some primer on it ahead of those next step, taping off the areas where welding will happen.
tygaboy
QUOTE(bkrantz @ Nov 4 2021, 07:05 PM) *

Hmm, does design 1 add more heat to the trans than necessary?

@bkrantz - If I do go with this initial design, I would likely add a simple heat shield between the exhaust and trans. It also depends on how high above the trans I opt to go.
Lots of decisions yet to be made.
andys
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 4 2021, 04:26 PM) *

What's going on here? happy11.gif

Removing the factory cross member really opens up the rear of the engine compartment. So much so that I've opted to rethink the exhaust system.

I've come up with a couple new designs. This first one is sorta what you see here:
The pipes will come together, Siamese straight back about 3-5 inches, then split back to two at 90 degrees and drop down on either side of the trans, enter transversely mounted mufflers then 90 again to go out the back, almost at each corner.

The other design is too hard for me to explain so if I mock it up, you'll get pics.


You of course know this opens up the opportunity to do 180 degree headers. Terry Steward fit up some stock car 180's in his sbc 914 track car some years ago. For me, I'm too impatient to pursue such silliness. You however, seem to embrace these kinds of challenges so consider the seed planted :-)

Andys
live free & drive
Looks pretty cool.. sounds good too:

https://www.dukeengineeringsolutions.com/pr...re-shipping-now


tygaboy
Next is to fab the plates to close up the openings. Same routine as usual: cardboard template transferred to steel, cut and trimmed to the pattern.
Then fit it to the car and tune the edges until it fits "everywhere". Wait... there's a bend needed. And the bend is a specific radius. idea.gif

1. Hold the flat panel against the chassis with it correctly positioned at the front
2. Carefully rotate the panel around the bend until the rear section makes contact - and verify it's perfectly aligned and the lower edge lands exactly on the ledge in the chassis
3. Repeat step 2 about 35 times trimming and grinding as needed, all the while convincing yourself the edge tuning you're doing really is what's needed to get the right fit...! wacko.gif
4. Position the panel at the front and mark where the bend needs to begin - one mark at the top of the panel, one mark at the bottom.
5. Rotate the panel around that bend in the chassis until it's flat at the back and mark where the bend ends, same way as the front.
6. Draw some lines to indicate where the bend needs to live
7. Find a suitable surface to use as a die and use a rubber mallet to create the radius bend. smash.gif
Simple, no?
tygaboy
Bend a little and test fit the bent panel knowing it's under bent. Easier/better to sneak up on the correct amount of bend vs. having to un-bend. Ask me how I know... laugh.gif

Note that the clamps are only holding the panel in place for tack welding. They aren't forcing the panel into place. That would be cheating.

The general rule I use is that by using only one finger and light pressure, the panel will sit where I want it. Ideally, it fits perfectly with no pressure at all, but I try not to let "perfect" get in the way of "really good". This fit "really good". OK, English majors... It fit really well. poke.gif

Now all I have to do is make the other one, just the mirror image. Eesh...
tygaboy
Both closing panels are done and tacked in. Also, as is pretty obvious, it was time to add the X-brace for the transmission mount. Here, the uninterrupted bar is fitted and tacked in and the primary section of the other bar is in process.
tygaboy
New exhaust underway. I want to get my car back on the road so I'm going after a "quick and dirty" exhaust, just for now. I'll reuse the components I already have and noodle up something neato for a future version. Until then...

I'm going back to the V1 muffler, which is a 2 in/2 out with an internal X pipe. But this time, both exhausts will enter from the same side, which is how the muffler is designed to be used. V1 had the tubes enter opposite sides, crossing over and exiting with one exhaust tip on each side of the muffler. This time it'll look like what's pictured.

Note the right side tube is just a mock up so I'd have some idea of the overall look.
Maybe it's because it's new and different, which appeals to my "Ohhh! Shiny object" disorder, but I like it!

And yes, I'm using the trailer as an extension of the Red Barn. RacerBenz is currently unable to roll so I gotta do what I gotta do.
Shivers
Your car rocks dude. A gearheads dream. Pat yourself on the back, this really is some next level work. The acceleration must be therapeutic... smile.gif
markhoward
That twin exit on the same side is bad ass! Love it!!
Dion
QUOTE(markhoward @ Nov 10 2021, 06:28 PM) *

That twin exit on the same side is bad ass! Love it!!


agree.gif This project and it’s evolving journey is awesome.
The fabrication and details never cease to amaze. Thanks Chris!
BuddyV
I absolutely LOVE the asymmetric tips location!

So tasteful. I hope it stays something like this.

beerchug.gif
Andyrew
That trunk is looking Tidy!! Love it!
Retroracer
..and possibly an added element to evoke that racing Porsche theme - dual cookie cutter tips? Something along the lines of:

Click to view attachment

..but not with the backing plate, obvi; just showing this as a visual aid. Food for thought,

- Tony
tygaboy
For those interested, here's how the exhaust tips look from the other side.
The ol' "out and around and down and out"!
tygaboy
Trans mount X-brace all fitted and tacked in place. On to the exhaust.
Rand
wub.gif
FL000
I’m definitely jealous of the accessibility you have to the back half of the car. Looks like you can literally stand back there while working on it.
tygaboy
QUOTE(FL000 @ Nov 12 2021, 07:57 AM) *

I’m definitely jealous of the accessibility you have to the back half of the car. Looks like you can literally stand back there while working on it.

@FL000 - I just got a new package of Sawzall blades. Bring yours up and I'll help you get better access! laugh.gif
But seriously. Yes, I've stood in there. And the trans has served as a seat, too.
tygaboy
Well, that didn't take long... Sorry @buddyV Robert, looks like that muffler set up isn't going to make the (current) cut! In looking at how I'd need to route the exhaust tubing to make that work, I just wasn't feeling it. Yes, I loved how it looked from the outside, but not so much from inside the engine bay.
So, I'm working up what I think I like more: that original "join and run down the center" look. Here's a super rough mock up of one side, just to see if I like this design. This tube will be mirrored on the other side.
And to beat you jokesters to it: Yes, the muffler is laying on the ground and will actually be attached to the end of that last bend. Oh, and I'll weld it up vs using the Gorilla tape you see here. poke.gif
mgp4591
Lots of extra piping...but you've got the power to move it!
cali914
What are you going to use from the back bar to rear bumper. I got touched there and it started a small crack on my rear fenders.
tygaboy
Psych! Back to the first version of the 3rd rendition of the exhaust. Wait... what? wacko.gif
After playing around with various ideas, I realized @buddyv and @markhoward were right - the asymmetric dual exhaust looks pretty neat. Plus, the muffler bracket was already completed and proven to work.

So, let's connect those same ol' headers to that same ol' muffler!

Fortunately, I was able to reuse a bunch of the tubing from earlier versions of the exhaust and needed only one length of new tube. Sorry for not too many in process pics. I got focused on the work and forgot the camera part...
tygaboy
Getting everything to line up, in plane and correctly clocked is tedious and challenging. The previous pic shows the lower section of tube (where it enters the muffler) being test fit and this pic shows the upper end section (where it starts heading rearward) in test fit. Then it's work out which tube(s) and where on them to trim so it all comes together.
tygaboy
Final test fit before the final tack that locks things in place.
tygaboy
Clamping a plate to both sides helps ensure the tubes are in plane.
tygaboy
Add a bunch of tacks to be as sure as possible that nothing is going to move, pull it all out, bench weld all seams and...
tygaboy
Still need to add the final "exhaust pipe-to-muffler" attachment system (2 tension springs per tube) but it's essentially done. And believe it or not, the overall lengths are within about 5" of each other.
Surprisingly, I like the asymmetric vibe of the whole thing. I wasn't sure I would.
In any case, this means that once the engine harness is done, I'll be back on the road!
Dion
Those pipes look fantastic. Cant imagine the thinking and time consumed on routing. Can’t wait to hear it rumble. Nice one Chris.
Krieger
WOW, WOW, WOW! You make it look so easy and badass!
tygaboy
Today was adding the spring tabs and locator ring that helps seal where the tube enters the muffler. This was a ton of fun because on this one tube, the ring ends up right at the end of a bend. Which means the ring itself needs to be part of a bend, but a slightly different diameter. I don't even know how to explain how I was able to make it fit.

Suffice it to say, it was more complicated than I expected. But I'm happy with how it turned out. My TIG welding continues to improve and I'm finally feeling reasonably confident that (in most cases!) l can get a nice result.

With this updated exhaust fab work complete, the next step is sending it, along with the headers, off for ceramic coating. Oh, but which color will I do? idea.gif
Cracker
ITB's all the way...all day long. beerchug.gif

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 2 2021, 07:11 PM) *

Before and after.

ITBs are cool, but overall? I'll take after.

Morph914
Looks great Chris! I’ll trade you a bottle of wine for a ride next time I’m in Napa.
Cracker
Chris: Keep in mind; from a performance viewpoint, equal length bank to bank is the goal. Moving past aesthetics, it does not make sense if efficiency is part of your end goal. I realize how much work this all is but I believe you do care about logic as well. It is even more critical since you have chosen to merge both banks into a common muffler. JMO

Regarding the induction: The LS MAF likes a straight shot of clean unfettered air - 18" if possible - after the filter. I realize that is likely not the final rendition considering your induction swaps in-project - then again, when will this not be in-project! poke.gif


QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 16 2021, 07:43 PM) *

Final test fit before the final tack that locks things in place.
tygaboy
QUOTE(Cracker @ Nov 21 2021, 10:18 AM) *

Chris: Keep in mind; from a performance viewpoint, equal length bank to bank is the goal. Moving past aesthetics, it does not make sense if efficiency is part of your end goal. I realize how much work this all is but I believe you do care about logic as well. It is even more critical since you have chosen to merge both banks into a common muffler. JMO

Regarding the induction: The LS MAF likes a straight shot of clean unfettered air - 18" if possible - after the filter. I realize that is likely not the final rendition considering your induction swaps in-project - then again, when will this not be in-project! poke.gif


QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 16 2021, 07:43 PM) *

Final test fit before the final tack that locks things in place.



@Cracker Tony - Agreed on the length but I'm not concerned about extracting every last HP. That said, if this set up turns out to be problematic in some measurable way, I'd certainly go after another revision.
And on the MAF, I don't need one. The Holley ECUs are speed density based and use MAP. It really frees me up to do virtually anything right up to attaching it to the throttle body.
djway
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 21 2021, 04:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Cracker @ Nov 21 2021, 10:18 AM) *

Chris: Keep in mind; from a performance viewpoint, equal length bank to bank is the goal. Moving past aesthetics, it does not make sense if efficiency is part of your end goal. I realize how much work this all is but I believe you do care about logic as well. It is even more critical since you have chosen to merge both banks into a common muffler. JMO

Regarding the induction: The LS MAF likes a straight shot of clean unfettered air - 18" if possible - after the filter. I realize that is likely not the final rendition considering your induction swaps in-project - then again, when will this not be in-project! poke.gif


QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 16 2021, 07:43 PM) *

Final test fit before the final tack that locks things in place.



@Cracker Tony - Agreed on the length but I'm not concerned about extracting every last HP. That said, if this set up turns out to be problematic in some measurable way, I'd certainly go after another revision.
And on the MAF, I don't need one. The Holley ECUs are speed density based and use MAP. It really frees me up to do virtually anything right up to attaching it to the throttle body.

It may actually tone it down from Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
to Holy Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
but I doubt it
happy11.gif
Cracker
You can NEVER have too much power but agree that will likely "tone it down"...regarding the MAF - not as precise as a MAF - we tried on that motor originally but it was best to go back to a MAF. Looking forward to seeing how it runs...!

Cracker

"It may actually tone it down from Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
to Holy Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
but I doubt it"
happy11.gif
tygaboy
The headers and exhaust tubes are off being ceramic coated and should be back next week. In the meantime, I'm working on a couple ideas for the intake. Here's the first one:

To start, what are the odds I'd find a discontinued Y-tube with angles that essentially match the arbitrarily set angles of the X-brace?!?!? I tell ya, the universe WANTS me to make this intake! lol-2.gif

Anyway, the design would be something like the pic that @RetroRacer Tony sketched for me a while back. The main difference is I'd transition from the 4" round to 2" tall oval tubes to get over the cross bar while staying under the trunk and engine lid.

It also may be that the 4" tubes are visually a bit "big". The pics make it look worse that it really is. So I may I slice them up and transition to 3" in that straight section. That's still plenty of air for the engine. I need to play with it and see what I like.

As always, the fun continues! sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif
cali914
QUOTE(Rand @ Nov 12 2021, 02:06 AM) *

wub.gif

man those half shaft angles look pretty steep. How are they holding up?
djway
That drawing brought on flashbacks from the movie The Wall
Looking cool
tygaboy
Geez... Now what?
tygaboy
The rear "between the tail lights" panel was messed up in multiple ways: poorly repaired accident damage AND holes from a 911 reflector install. I have a really clean entire tail section I was planning to use as a replacement so I figured it couldn't hurt to see what I could come up in the eVENT laugh.gif I opted to do something not stock.

A bit of body sawing and I have openings.

After making a few different versions (big surprise, eh?), I've narrowed it to these two. I'm leaning hard toward the angle-y one.

Yes, the panel will have some sort of grill in the openings and any visible inner structure will be painted black.
tygaboy
And you may have noticed the intake tube and the air cleaner in the left rear corner of the trunk. I'm working on multiple versions of the air cleaner set up. This one you see here - but with an air box around the air cleaner that...

... is open to a vent in the trunk lid!

Notice that while I have completed the intake tube and made the vent, I haven't yet cut the trunk lid. I'm still not quite sure if I like this design. Another option would be to have the air box connect to the openings in that rear tail light panel.

So.
Many.
Options.

I love working on my build... sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif
tygaboy
Artsy pic that sorta shows how the hood vents are echoed in the trunk vents...

I feel compelled to say that the vents don't really "come to life" until the vanes are bent into position and they're mounted down into position.
Shivers
Nice welding
bkrantz
Maybe some cool intake snorkels?
djway
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 10 2021, 05:12 PM) *

And you may have noticed the intake tube and the air cleaner in the left rear corner of the trunk. I'm working on multiple versions of the air cleaner set up. This one you see here - but with an air box around the air cleaner that...

... is open to a vent in the trunk lid!

Notice that while I have completed the intake tube and made the vent, I haven't yet cut the trunk lid. I'm still not quite sure if I like this design. Another option would be to have the air box connect to the openings in that rear tail light panel.

So.
Many.
Options.

I love working on my build... sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif

Your intake has Pyrones.....
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